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#1 Posted by Abishai100 (1744 posts) - - Show Bio

The Joker is a very strange and symbolic Batman nemesis, because he promotes the endless ironies of jurisprudence management (and justice system frailties), making mischief seem political (or anarchistic).

It would be interesting to do a comparison of classic and modern gem Joker comics with the presentation of Joker in animated programs such as Batman: The Animated Series (Fox TV), where he was voiced by the great Mark Hamill (Luke Skywalker from George Lucas's fleshy Star Wars epic).

The Nolan films have drawn literary attention away from Joker and towards more sinister Bat-villains such as Bane and Scarecrow.

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#2 Posted by Abishai100 (1744 posts) - - Show Bio

If humor is a verifiable form of creativity (i.e., Andy Kaufman, The Three Stooges, Laurel and Hardy, etc.), then the Joker is the most creativity-oriented Bat-nemesis, finding the funny side of criminality.

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#3 Edited by jb681131 (3064 posts) - - Show Bio

The Nolan films have drawn literary attention away from Joker and towards more sinister Bat-villains such as Bane and Scarecrow.

..... Not at all ! The entire The Dark Night is about the Joker. Too me the Joker is very grim, making him one of Batman's most sinister villain.

If humor is a verifiable form of creativity (i.e., Andy Kaufman, The Three Stooges, Laurel and Hardy, etc.), then the Joker is the most creativity-oriented Bat-nemesis, finding the funny side of criminality.

But does the Joker really have a sence of humor ? The Killing Joke showed that he was a failed artist. He's just a man who cracked up after so much failurs in his life. He's a man who doesn't care about anything anymore. That's why he's so unpredictable, and that's always why is a very dangerous foe. The only thing he wants is people to like him, to laught with him. But since he's unable to do that he forces people to laught.

As for the comparison you want, I believe that all the modern version of the Joker are trying to be the same. They all were inspired/influenced by The Killing Joke.

But anyways, I don't see where you really want to go with your post.

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#4 Posted by Abishai100 (1744 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, I didn't expect to learn about The Killing Joke. I supposed I was looking for this kind of information via feedback!

As per the Nolan films, I think the appearance of Two-Face in "The Dark Knight" [2008] drew attention away from Heath Ledger's very engaging young Joker.

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#5 Edited by Nathaniel_Christopher (3301 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't think i've ever seen a single person argue that Two-Face was more engaging than the Joker in Dark Knight, or that he stole the show from him. The Joker in fact is 100% responsible for Harvey Dent becoming Two-Face physically and mentally. Two-Face then only appears for the last act of the film and the confrontation, while powerful, isn't as dramatic as Batman's bout with Joker. May as well say that Talia took attention away from Bane in Dark Knight Rises.

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#6 Posted by Abishai100 (1744 posts) - - Show Bio

Counter-Point Spread

That's arguable. The Nolan films were developing the intentionality of Batman, so Ledger's Joker was supposed to feel like an introduction to the villain, and the fact that Two-Face (pretty effectively) provided complementary counter-points to the Joker's brand of rogue 'politics' made me wish they would have introduced a Harley Quinn in The Dark Knight Rises (instead of Talia!) to provide more Joker-esque funhouse anarchism/terrorism (since Ledger had died by the time the new film was made). I wouldn't say Two-Face stole the show, but he definitely created his own 'philosophy spotlight.'

Scarecrow, if you notice, appears in all three Nolan films.

However, I like what they're doing with the Joker and Harley Quinn in the upcoming Suicide Squad film (from the first look at the trailers anyway).

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#7 Edited by jb681131 (3064 posts) - - Show Bio

Counter-Point Spread

That's arguable. The Nolan films were developing the intentionality of Batman, so Ledger's Joker was supposed to feel like an introduction to the villain, and the fact that Two-Face (pretty effectively) provided complementary counter-points to the Joker's brand of rogue 'politics' made me wish they would have introduced a Harley Quinn in The Dark Knight Rises (instead of Talia!) to provide more Joker-esque funhouse anarchism/terrorism (since Ledger had died by the time the new film was made). I wouldn't say Two-Face stole the show, but he definitely created his own 'philosophy spotlight.'

Scarecrow, if you notice, appears in all three Nolan films.

However, I like what they're doing with the Joker and Harley Quinn in the upcoming Suicide Squad film (from the first look at the trailers anyway).

Yes Quinn is fun and could make some good entertainment. But if you've read a bit the books, you would know that Talia is much more important. I won't spoil anything. Harley is only the Joker's muse.

And personnaly, I found Two-face completly ruined in Nolan's movie and useless.

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#8 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (3301 posts) - - Show Bio

Counter-Point Spread

That's arguable. The Nolan films were developing the intentionality of Batman, so Ledger's Joker was supposed to feel like an introduction to the villain, and the fact that Two-Face (pretty effectively) provided complementary counter-points to the Joker's brand of rogue 'politics' made me wish they would have introduced a Harley Quinn in The Dark Knight Rises (instead of Talia!) to provide more Joker-esque funhouse anarchism/terrorism (since Ledger had died by the time the new film was made). I wouldn't say Two-Face stole the show, but he definitely created his own 'philosophy spotlight.'

Scarecrow, if you notice, appears in all three Nolan films.

However, I like what they're doing with the Joker and Harley Quinn in the upcoming Suicide Squad film (from the first look at the trailers anyway).

No it's not. The Joker was the cause of Harvey becoming Two-Face and for warping his ideals and then setting him loose on Gotham to cause chaos, which itself was just furthering the chaos that the Joker had been causing throughout the city up to that point. Dark Knight is entirely Joker's film in terms of the main villain. Two-Face only ends up taking part in it and doing exactly what Joker wants him to do and serving to prove Joker's own philosophy. And I think that reviews typically speak for themselves. As I stated previously, i've never seen a single person say that Two-Face took any of the attention away from the Joker and what he was doing and Ledger's performance received more praise than any other in that film, which is a testament to how strong it was.

Harley Quinn can't hold her own film as a villian in the same way Joker can. Also wouldn't have fit in well with the entire Bane plot.

Scarecrow appeared in all 3 Nolan films, but i'd hardly say that they gave him that much attention overall. The first one yeah, because he was the main villain in the same way that Joker and Bane are for the next two. But in the second he appears at the very start and then never again, and then gets a similar cameo in the third, this time not even having his mask. He gets less and less important as the films go on. And there's certainly not people praising either subsequent appearance from him as anything amazing.

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#9 Posted by AbdullahZubair (1039 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Ra's Al Ghul was the villain in the first film and not scarecrow


And I love the way how you pointed out that two-face was just a pawn of Joker in the movie much like how Bane was of Talia...

Also: I find this thread wierd as Joker has been the centre of attention of half the books released by DC starring a Batman character so he is given too much attention...

@Abishai100 said:

Counter-Point Spread

That's arguable. The Nolan films were developing the intentionality of Batman, so Ledger's Joker was supposed to feel like an introduction to the villain, and the fact that Two-Face (pretty effectively) provided complementary counter-points to the Joker's brand of rogue 'politics' made me wish they would have introduced a Harley Quinn in The Dark Knight Rises (instead of Talia!) to provide more Joker-esque funhouse anarchism/terrorism (since Ledger had died by the time the new film was made). I wouldn't say Two-Face stole the show, but he definitely created his own 'philosophy spotlight.'

Scarecrow, if you notice, appears in all three Nolan films.

However, I like what they're doing with the Joker and Harley Quinn in the upcoming Suicide Squad film (from the first look at the trailers anyway).

No it's not. The Joker was the cause of Harvey becoming Two-Face and for warping his ideals and then setting him loose on Gotham to cause chaos, which itself was just furthering the chaos that the Joker had been causing throughout the city up to that point. Dark Knight is entirely Joker's film in terms of the main villain. Two-Face only ends up taking part in it and doing exactly what Joker wants him to do and serving to prove Joker's own philosophy. And I think that reviews typically speak for themselves. As I stated previously, i've never seen a single person say that Two-Face took any of the attention away from the Joker and what he was doing and Ledger's performance received more praise than any other in that film, which is a testament to how strong it was.

Harley Quinn can't hold her own film as a villian in the same way Joker can. Also wouldn't have fit in well with the entire Bane plot.

Scarecrow appeared in all 3 Nolan films, but i'd hardly say that they gave him that much attention overall. The first one yeah, because he was the main villain in the same way that Joker and Bane are for the next two. But in the second he appears at the very start and then never again, and then gets a similar cameo in the third, this time not even having his mask. He gets less and less important as the films go on. And there's certainly not people praising either subsequent appearance from him as anything amazing.

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#10 Posted by Slayz (2236 posts) - - Show Bio

@Abishai100: You seem like one of those guys who wants to sound incredibly smart about useless topics.

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#11 Posted by deactivated-5a60370ee1024 (192 posts) - - Show Bio

Thought I’d post this here in the thread, I’ve posted it before, but I thought it would be appropriate for the thread since you mention Hamill’s Joker in the BTAS. This link I found on a forum was an objective study of the character and compared it with Hamill’s Joker seen in BTAS.

http://jester-of-genocide.tumblr.com/FOTDCAUJ

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#12 Posted by BeautifulLie (3 posts) - - Show Bio
@jb681131 said:
@Abishai100 said:

The Nolan films have drawn literary attention away from Joker and towards more sinister Bat-villains such as Bane and Scarecrow.

..... Not at all ! The entire The Dark Night is about the Joker. Too me the Joker is very grim, making him one of Batman's most sinister villain.

@Abishai100 said:

If humor is a verifiable form of creativity (i.e., Andy Kaufman, The Three Stooges, Laurel and Hardy, etc.), then the Joker is the most creativity-oriented Bat-nemesis, finding the funny side of criminality.

But does the Joker really have a sence of humor ? The Killing Joke showed that he was a failed artist. He's just a man who cracked up after so much failurs in his life. He's a man who doesn't care about anything anymore. That's why he's so unpredictable, and that's always why is a very dangerous foe. The only thing he wants is people to like him, to laught with him. But since he's unable to do that he forces people to laught.

As for the comparison you want, I believe that all the modern version of the Joker are trying to be the same. They all were inspired/influenced by The Killing Joke.

But anyways, I don't see where you really want to go with your post.

Talk about false, the joker didn't become a psychopathic killer because he was a failed comedian or because no one would laugh at him, he became the way he became because of the events of that day, losing his wife and unborn child and the irony of the events of that day in correspondence to his life and what he was fighting for, he realized it didn't matter and the joke was on him, not that he wanted to make people laugh with him. The killing joke makes the Joker's explanations clear as day through his dialogue I don't know how the fuck you could have got that out of what he said.