Unpopular Batman Opinions

Jason in RHATO and RH/A is imo still much more enjoyable than Jason in Morrisons ear or in the new 52 Batman events (like the Eternals).

Been thinking about this one for a while, but Tim Drake should've done exactly what the character originally set out to do:

"I won't be out here on the rooftops ten years from now. I do my shift as Robin and then go back to a "normal" life".

I honestly think, especially with the route we've had the character go, that Tim Drake should've gone through his stint as Robin and then retired. He was 17 by the time Flashpoint came around (And even then only because he was stated as such, in terms of actual events he should've been 18+). I would've had him hit 18, graduate from high school, hang up the costume in the cave, part with Bruce, Alfred, and the rest on good terms, and then go off to college. Would've then brought him back to Gotham a few years later and used him as a supporting character in some way, outside of the costume like Jim Gordon. Think it wraps the character up nicely, is far better than the way they just made his life worse and worse over time to justify him staying in the costume (Because at the end he literally had nothing else in his life), and of course opens the position up for Damian, just like Jason's death paved the way for Tim. It also takes him down a different route than his brothers, which is important in my opinion. Saw something similar with Barbara after The Killing Joke, when she became Oracle. Still fought the good fight, but in a different way, and still managed to be an interesting character.

@nathaniel_christopher: good points. Although I think I'd have preferred Jason stay dead and Tim become Joker Jr like in beyond. Not sure how much happy ending and the bat family go hand in hand.

Definitely would've preferred Jason stay dead as well. In terms of happy endings for the Bat Family I guess it depends on how you view Batman. I'm not against any of them getting happy send offs personally, like Dark Knight Rises for Bruce and in general I don't really vibe with the idea that their lives have to be complete crap all the time. Don't find that to be realistic. Life's a combination of the good and the bad, and I think they should all embody that. That's part of why I like the Bat Family as a concept. It shows that despite the fact that Batman as an idea began with tragedy, there are still some good aspects of it as well that positively effected Bruce Wayne's life. Barbara Gordon in turn was tragically shot by the Joker, but took that and turned it into something positive, building herself up into something more than she'd been previously. And so on. At the least, I definitely think they went too far with Tim Drake to make his life super dark. They were killing off the people in his life left and right.

@aahz Random, but I believe we were speaking a few weeks/months ago about Tim Drake's age Pre-Flashpoint and the subject of Dick Grayson's age also came up. At the time I, and i'm vaguely remembering this so it might not be the most accurate memory, believe you argued Dick was like 21 or 23? Somewhere around there. Again, can't remember for a fact. And I mentioned that there was a timeline in the Nightwing Year One TPB from Chuck Dixon and that I didn't have it on me. Anyways, I have it in front of me now and the timeline lists Dick Grayson as being 26. And this of course is before things like One Year Later. Obviously this has zero bearing on the current canon.

@nathaniel_christopher: Dicks age during which event? Based on the Comics he was8-12 when he became Robin (12 makes the most sense imo) 19 when he became Nightwing, around 21 when Tim became Robin and 23 During the 1999 Titans series (or more correctly it was said Donna was 23 but they are iirc the same age), and then there was one issue said to be set almost 10 years after his 17 birthday (I during his time in New York).

I don't know the time from Nightwing Year One TPB (one the one from Secret Origins), can list some details?

Exactly,other characters from YJ generation also retired. Tim's problem was that he wasn't just Tim,he was also Robin and Robin couldn't retire.

Sorry about it being turned on its side. Not sure why it came out like that, but I did take that on my phone of the TPB in front of me, so that might be why. Again, it's Nightwing Year One, by Chuck Dixon, which collects issues 101-106 and was written in 2005. That's after Knightfall, Contagion/Legacy, No Man's Land, and Murderer/Fugitive. Very first entry in the timeline notes that Dick Grayson was born 26 years ago before the current story, which is of course about him becoming Nightwing. Timeline also notes that Dick's parents were killed 11 years before the story's start. You can see on these entires that Dixon also lists different issues where he's pulling specific events from, such as Robin Annual #4 and such. However, that notes a sizeable chunck in-between Dick being born and his parents being killed. 26-11=15 after all. It's also somewhat confusing, because the timeline also references other stories naturally, like Robin Year One, in which Dick most definitely did not appear to be 15/16 years old.

@entropy_aegis Very good point, some of his contemporaries did retire, and in general we've seen a variety of others retire at some point for various lengths of time. And as you said, you can't just have Robin retire lol doesn't really work. But that's why i'm also saying that years after that when you have the character hit 18 would be a good point, and you then introduce Damian afterwards and there's a smooth transition from one to the other.

@nathaniel_christopher: Thanks. Would it be possible to post the rest of the timeline?

Dick starting at such a high age is something you see quite regularly in timelines from this era, but in the comics it self they never give an higher age starting age than 12.

Another unpopular opinion, based on what i've seen

I like the long ears and flowing cape (that really can serve as a cloak and take on an appearance akin to giant bat wings) that Kelley Jones gives Batman. Thnk both look great.

No problem. I'm about to leave for work now and i'll be there until after midnight. But i'll post the rest of it on here when I get home.

Classics Cute

The classicist tradition in cinema favours a spotlight on casting and atmosphere (i.e., David Lean's The Bridge on the RiverKwai), so why not experiment with Batman stories not like Christopher Nolan but more like Tim Burton?

For example, imagine a new Jon Favreau-directed Batman film with Matt Damon as the Dark Night and Jesse Eisenberg as the Mad Hatter. Favreau directed Cowboys & Aliens, Matt Damon has worked on derring-do films such as The Rainmaker and The Bourne Identity, and Jesse Eisenberg has appeared in The Social Network and Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice. Such a film would highlight a preference for 'atmospherics creativity.'

In other words, maybe the Batman (DC Comics) franchise needs a 'funhouse boost.'

The Bridge on the River Kwai

Gallery

Again, sorry about them being turned on their side. No idea why that keeps happening and sorry about the delay lol been a busy couple of days.

In regards to the age for starting as Robin it might just be a Dixon thing, which no one else ever mentioned. Not like writers don't contradict each other every now and again.

@nathaniel_christopher: Thanks !!!

Does the timeline really stop 6 years ago?

Btw. its a little bit strange that this timeline refers to Batman 408 and not to Nightwing Year One, keeps Brabras Time in Congress canon.

I want Batman to be in his own universe.

I don't think Batman comics are gothic enough.

It does. Like I said earlier I really think that it's something Dixon crafted himself, utilizing various sources to some extent.

I assume that Dixon ended 6 years prior to the story's start with the assumption that everything from then on would've had Dick working with the New Teen Titans and therefore spending less time with Batman. Nightwing Year One in fact starts with Dick returning from a mission with his team to help Batman in Gotham, which then leads to the argument where Bruce accuses him of not being committed enough because he's not in Gotham enough.

OK than it is probably meant as kind of a recap what happened before Nightwing: Year One. Big Question is what "Now" is in this timeline. Based on the date of publication most likely "Under the Red Hood".

But Dick loosing his partents at 15, contradicts imo Dixons own work, since he was still in Middle School in Robin: Year One which is set roughly a year after the death of his parents.

Well Under the Hood started in February 2005 and this started in March 2005, so yeah I guess it probably would fall under this.

That's the problem with creating timelines and taking older stories into account. Many of them give specific ages or dates for certain characters, so you have to make your timeline line up with that or you contradict it. Like with Batman Endgame, which states Bruce is 32. Any later story now has to take that into account and couldn't then say that Bruce wasn't Batman or something when he was 32 years old, because that contradicts the statement in Endgame. That's comics for you though.

Because of the contradiction, it's fun for me to track down the ages.

Btw. here is my current version for Dick. The complete version with the whole family is already nearly 6 pages, which is unfortunately a little bit to long for a post.

Dick Grayson

The information for Dick are extremely contradictory. During the Golden and Silver Age his age was never clearly revealed. It was later retconned that the Golden Age Robin was born in 1928 [1] so he would have been around 12 in his debut in 1940 [2]. That he became Robin at the age of 8 was also introduced quite late when he was already a member of the new New Teen Titans [3,4]. The only proof for him starting at 8 in the original comics are the 8 spanks Bruce gave him at his Birthday, but on the other hand he had 14 candels on his cake and got his own Batplane as present [5]. And in the second version of his origin story he was already called teenaged when he started as Robin [6].

By the time he got is own solo stories he was already in high school [7] and in this series it was later implied that he was around 15 [8], and shortly after the end of the series he was already drive a car in his civilian identity [9]. He stayed in High School during the whole Silver Age [10-16], and in two stories referred to him as being in 11^th grade [13,15]. He was probably at least 18 when was going to collage, since he got a draft-card [17] and was 19 when he became Nightwing [3,4].

Post-crisis the age he lost his parents and became Robin varies in the comics from 8 to 12 [18-23] and the official time lines imply ages of 13 to 15 [24-28]. There are also many different dates for his Birthday (November 11^th [29], the week before Halloween [19], the first day of spring/March 21 [28,30], March 10 [31]) and the date of the murder of his parents (June 27^th [32], July 15^th [29], Halloween [19], one day after Mothert's Day [33]). But according to most sources his parents died two years after Bruce started as Batman and he finally became Robin one year later.

It was said that he was around 13 when the original Teen Titans were founded [34,35], but the timelines imply again a higher age [24-28], and that he was 15 when the Titans joined Joren Jupiter and at least 17 when Dr. Light invaded the Titans Liar [34], even if he was already an adult and in collage during the time of the original comics [36,37].

He was fired as Robin and became Nightwing after he dropped out of collage after one [38] or two [39] semesters so he was 18 or 19 and he had his 20^th birthday shortly after this in the crisis year when he was already Nightwing [18,40] and he is said to be 21 around the time of Tims appearance [41-43]. When the Titans reformed after the Technis Imperative he was around 23 [44].

In later comics he is usually referred as 20-something, according to one timeline he his 26 around the time “War Games” and “Under the Hood” [28] and near the end of his Nightwing series there is a story which is placed nearly 10 years after his 17^th birthday [45] so that he was probably 26 or 27 at the end of this continuity.

In the new 52 his parents died 5 years ago [46] on the Birthday of his Mother [47,48]. Dick was trained by Bruce for 6 month, and was still 16 when he started as Robin [49]. And was said to be 21 when he joined Spyral [50].

Sources: [1] Last Days of the Justice Society of America, [2] Detective Comics #38, [3] New Teen Titans Vol 1 #37, [4] New Teen Titans Vol 1 #39, [5] Batman#10, [6] Batman #213, [7] Star Spangled Comics #70 ,[8] Star Spangled Comics #122, [9] World's Finest #66, [10] Batman #162, [11] Batman #166, [12] Batman #192, [13] Batman #202, [14] Detective Comics #380, [15] Detective Comics #386, [16] Detective Comics #390&#391, [17] Batman #217, [18] Secret Origins Vol 2 #13, [19] Secret Origins Vol 2 #50, [20] Nightwing Vol 2 #73, [21] Nightwing Vol 2 #76, [22] Batman Confidential #13, [23] Robin Year One #1, [24] Batman - Secret Files & Origins, [25] Nightwing - Secret Files & Origins, [26] Guide to the DC Universe - Secret Files & Origins, [27] Teen Titans Vol 3 #0.5, [28] Nightwing: Year One TPB, [29] DC calendar 1976, [30] Robin Annual #4 ,[31] Batman - The Silver Age Newspaper Comics Volume 2, [32] Nightwing Vol 1 #1, [33] Batman Dark Victory #8&#9, [34] Secret Origins Vol 2 Annual #3,[35] The Titans Vol 1 #16, [36] Teen Titans Vol 1 #25, [37] Teen Titans Vol 1 #44, [38] Batman #416, [39] Nightwing Vol 2 #42, [40] New Teen Titans Vol 2 #18, [41] New Titans Annual #5, [42] New Titans #71, [43] Deathstroke Annual #1, [44] The Titans Vol 1 #5, [45] Nightwing Vol 2 #134, [46] Batman Vol2 #0, [47] Nightwing Vol 2 #0, [48] Secret Origins Vol 3 #1, [49] Batman and Robin Annual #2, [50] Secret Origins Vol 3 #8

@nathaniel_christopher said:

Another unpopular opinion, based on what i've seen

I like the long ears and flowing cape (that really can serve as a cloak and take on an appearance akin to giant bat wings) that Kelley Jones gives Batman. Thnk both look great.

Kelley Jones definitely doesn't draw my favorite Batman, but his exaggerated take on the character is really interesting and fun to look at.

@aahz Looks good. One point, for the New 52 you mention that Dick is 21, due to becoming Robin at 16 and the 5 year timeline. I get that. Do we have any idea how much has passed yet though? Like between Court of Owls and say Batman and Robin Eternal are there any hints?

@wrucebayne Yeah Jones Batman isn't for everyone and I can understand why. I think he's great at giving the character a dark, gothic type look though. Really goes to the point where the character looks like a giant bat or shadow at certain points. Love it. Only issue I really have is that at some point I think he exaggerates too much in terms of how muscular Batman is, which can throw me off.

@nathaniel_christopher: I'm usually just tracking the ages and not the time that has passed. And sofar it doesn't seem that anybody aged since the beginning of the new 52.

-Batman doesn't need to be a steroid addict, I hate that voice and that kind of muscles is ridiculous, pretty stupid too.

-Men think women find attractive to be the haft of her boyfriend's size but many women believe those men are disgusting, in comics they think that's hot o.O Steroids are dangerous batman! you shouldn't promote them!

-Batman x Joker subtext or whatever is gross.

-Super Crossovers are boring

-BVS was a boring movie and yes, I know all the references but they put on screen fragments of many stories and no a real good story for the film itself. I watched it with a friend and I explained the movie to him, he said It wasn't what the trailer sold him out

-I love Damian but he souldn't be canon in the mainstream

-Batwoman? What's that stupid name?, she's too much similar to Barbara, red hair too...Rucka was like "see my new and original character!"

@arkham01: "Batwoman? What's that stupid name?, she's too much similar to Barbara, red hair too...Rucka was like "see my new and original character!""

Thank you! She's a total rip off of Babs. Hero father in a legitimate profession in protecting people, soldier instead of cop, but was not allowed to follow in his footsteps. Was inspired by Batman to fight crime as an alternative but stood apart from the bat family in order to be her own person. Yeah Kate needs some serious overhauls.

Most of his villains are exactly the same. The riddler and joker are basically identical. His villains are just insane versions of him

Bruce Wayne aka Batman is the most boring character in the batfamily with a cardboard personality.

Tho seeing as how Duke Thomas is getting into the family, he might not be the worst one.

Snider is not that great of a writer, and he introduced way too many pointless new members to the family, out of who 1 has already been forgotten.

Speaking of which, the batfamily is too big, there should only be 9 characters outside of batman, and even that is a lot. Dick, Jason, Tim, Damian, Barbara, Cassandra, Stephanie, Batwoman & the original batgirl being her sidekick.

Batwing...eh, he's not that bad, I do still find him pointless, but he's at least better than the even more pointless hero's Snyder introduced because he thinks he's such a great batman writer and just wants to piss all over his territory.

There should be no Huntress outside of Helena Wayne.

I don't like Grant Morrison batman stories.

Batman should stop acting like a lone wolf, that whole act is so fake, considering that he has around 13 bat family members now & always has a robin & it was even discussed when Tim was becoming Robin, that he "needs" a robin.

The joker is the most overrated villain in all of creation. People think he's crazy and unpredictable but he's the most predictable character I've ever seen.

He's starting to get overused to the point where it's becoming detrimental to the other DC characters as well as DC as a whole. They're stuck in this old school mentality and cycle in which they constantly promote him because he's popular, and won't give chances to their lesser known characters because they won't sell, when in fact putting those characters out there and giving them chances is what turns them popular (and it's how these big name heroes become big in the first place). Marvel has shown us that there's value in their lesser known characters. Nobody would've ever thought we'd have gotten adaptations of Guardians of the Galaxy, Ant-Man or Jessica Jones in our lifetimes.

Thank you! The Joker has been a great villain but it's come to a point where his persona is getting in the way of other villains becoming undershadowed by Joker. I want to see Two-Face, Riddler, Mad Hatter, Poison Ivy, Harley become a great villain to Batman. I never saw the Joker as Batman's arch enemy at all. They're so useless together. Two-Face has been more of a relateable villain to Batman than Joker ever was because of Harvey's switch to the dark side. The Long Halloween showed that any Batman villain can become a threat to Gotham than Joker ever was.

No thanks, keep Batman far away from Harley, she's the worst.

She almost killed him if it wasn't for her wanting validation from the Joker she really could have offed him.

@cheesyfries: A fluke, it was her origin story, they were trying to build her up,hasn't done anything after that. Would much rather have Batman fight Joker than Jokers sidekick.

@entropy_aegis: I see. Yeah, she was mostly created for Joker and then became wildly popular after.

Penguin, Riddler and Mr. Zsasz are boring and poor villains.

Scott Snyder's run was good but highly overrated. The best part of it was when it was about Dick in Detective Comics.

Tim Drake is the most boring Robin ever. He may be the best detective from the bunch and a tactical genius like Bruce, but that doesn't make him interesting.

As great as Morrison's Batman run was the conclusion with Batman Incorporated vol.2 it went totally downhill.

The whole Knightfall saga is one of the best Batman stories ever told. There is only one small exception about it - Tim Drake is included.

He wasn't even that either, writers just keep throwing statements and descriptions to keep him relevant. I've rarely seen Luthor and Deathstroke introduced with "IQ level and Tactical genius" in their introductory panels. With Tim it's how all writers respond, either that or they have some other established character say/think that.

That is indeed the sad truth. He has never been that relevant in my opinion and has never proved to be able to do something that extraordinary. The only time when I can say I liked him and that he was a great character was in The Return of Bruce Wayne. And even there it wasn't anything that great.

Dick is imo not really more interesting, especially as Robin.

Yeah, I hear you. Dick became interesting when he joined the Teen Titans and when he became Nightwing. The only character that has ever been interesting as Robin is Damian.

@tdk_1997: Even during the New Teen Titans he wasn't so interesting, the central characters of this run were imo for the most part Donna, Kory and Raven.

I haven't read the whole book, just a few stories of it so I don't really know. My point was that was the time period when Dick started to develop as a character on his own and when he became a well developed and entertaining character.

They should elimate all Snyder's pet character (this one might not be that unpopular)

The only Robin that really interests me is Damian. Nightwing is fine but I just wish that him and all the others ex Robins stayed far away from Gotham, It's annoying that they appear in every single event.

There should be a bigger focus on Two Face and Hugo Strange

With Two Face they should bring back the friendship that Bruce and Harvey had on the Animated series, It would far more dramatic to see how far these two friends have fallen.

Strange should be the guy that makes Batman doubt his mission and every struggle he has against Strange, it's an existential crisis

I think that the Animated series destroyed any possibility with the character of Mister Freeze. His stories were so amazing there that I don't think there are any more Mr Freeze stories to tell.

Harley Quinn should have never left the DCAU, I don't think she ever belonged to the comics.

Lastly I don't like this trend that the writers seem to be taking where Batman always fights people with super powers or Gotham city is always destroy by a big master plan of some villain (like in Snyder's run with Batman)

-Batman is a bad romance for wonderwoman.. she deserves someone better.

-Terry is maybe the best batman..Is the PERFECT successor.. although I respect damian.

-Dick(batman) and Damian(robin) are a great dynamic group.. I could be 1-2 years without Bruce Wayne

-Damian is a Good Robin as Dick Grayson.

-I am sure any batgirl(even Steph) or Oracle, are better than batgirl of burnside as a character and hero...

-Stephanie Brown is a great character and a good batgirl.

-I hate Riddler and he seems ridiculous..in batman rebirth 1 he was the only prisoner of arkham it was not scary.. Even an angry Poison Ivy was more scarier... and in the annual (superheavy) I only saw an stupid opportunistic

-I do not like Ra al Ghul.

-The batfamily should not grow... They have enough members.

-Duke and Bluebird should not be in the batfamily.. Lucas Fox is better than those two.

I actually liked Tim because he was the more normal of the group and didn't stand out. To me that did make him stand out because everyone else is so opposite of that. When they started to try and promote him as the master of tactical and strategy he started to lose me.

• Agreed. Her romances should also be limited to those characters in her own book.
• I disagree to this. Though for the record I don't want Damian to be the successor either.
• no comment
• Ability wise sure. Important to Batman's history I disagree.
• No comment.
• True on the first part. The second part I honestly think there should be no Batgirl
• Riddler could be written better.
• I like him
• Agree. Truth be told I would shrink it if I had the power.
• Agreed.

Tim was having a good start in the Bat family but that lasted for only one story. From that point it all went to hell for him.

Agreed. The basic setup for Tim Drake was great in my opinion, as a regular kid who admired Batman and Robin, and just wanted to help the two of them out. He figured out who they are based off a huge amount of luck, having been there to see Dick Grayson perform a signature trick, remembering it, and later linking it to him. A little coincidental, but its comics and I could accept that. Beyond that though, there was no tragedy for him, no genius level intellect, no enhanced reflexes, and no natural talent towards the martial arts. His parents were still alive, he went to school, had real girl problems, with girls that were almost always written like real girls, etc. I thought that was more than enough to set him apart from Dick and Jason in terms of origin, which led to him naturally having a different personality. Because he had parents he naturally had to deal with different problems than his predecessors did and unlike them he wasn't planning on being a crime fighter forever. He wanted to serve his time and be done with it. It's when writers started feeling the need to justify him being Robin, with any number of different reasons that things started to go off the rails. Even then his solo series and appearances in other books were still fine for the most part, then they felt the need to start making his life a living hell and they basically lost from then on.

Hate grant Morrison worst batman writer ever

Hush is horrid

Talia al Gual is a villainess and should have no romantic involvement with batman same with Catwoman

Dislike batman romances stupidest idea ever he should be celibate especially if he's a crime fighter and has a secret identity.

Damian Wayne needs to be completely remove for forever

Kill Jason and put him in glass case on display

Hate almost any batman comic I've read with a open mode since 2000 any later than that and the quality goes way down.

• Superman is a better character than batman
• Batman has way too many sidekicks/partners
• Batman is a terrible parent
• Batman is absolutely insane
• Batman's villains are overrated other than the riddler and joker

1. Joker is overused, while The Riddler is less used.

2. Harley Quinn shouldn't be an idol - she's insane and evil!

3. I didn't really care about Talia al Ghul, but when she, out of nowhere, ordered her henchmen (Man-Bat army) to kill Jezebel Jet (Batman's lover who betrayed him) and later sent Jezebel's head to Batman/Bruce, I was stunned. Whoah, this woman is too obsessed with Batman and very sadistic. She thought killing Jezebel (who betrayed Batman) would bring Batman back to her. She also tried to get rid of Catwoman, another rival in romance department, by manipulating Zatanna to mindwipe Catwoman. I also found her habit of calling Bruce with "beloved" is irritating. She should have stayed dead.

@nathaniel_christopher: I agree with you. The Batman editiorial Batman board back then had a really big chance of making something different, something unique that neither Dick, nor Jason were. However, whenever he was experiencing all of these normal boy problems, as you mentioned, it all really didnt seem compelling enough for me. Maybe the problem was that we had already seen that so many times with so many different characters in both DC and Marvel. It hadn't been done before with any of the Robins but with other superheroes, it was a common thing.

The best part of his life for me was when he took the Red Robin mantle. He remained almost the exact same character as before but being all grown up and mature kind of made him entertaining.

You know what? I don't think I'm down yet. I'm going back in to express my opinions.

• Batman's obsession will be the death of him one day.
• He can't trust Superman even after he was given kryptonite.
• Ibn al Xu'ffasch from Kingdom Come is much more interesting than Damian Wayne ever could be.
• Jason Todd deserves to kill the Joker.
• There are other characters from the DC Universe that deserve their own Telltale Game. Batman already has 4 Arkham games in his belt. Speaking of Arkham...
• I'm so tired of seeing Joker being the main villain in the Arkham series. Give others a chance Rocksteady. He's highly overrated and overused.
• I prefer Ra's Al Ghul as a main villain instead of the Joker.
• Batman has the biggest plot induced stupidity ever in comics.
• Riddler is a very underrated villain in my personal opinion.
• I prefer Batman over BatGod anytime.
• It's funny when Batman has a more functional relationship with Catwoman than Talia.
• Batman has more original animated movies than any DC character combined. Give others a chance.
• I like Batman as an underdog than an overpowered prep god.
• Batman needs to get his a$$ kicked by every hero once in a while.
• I prefer Jim Gordan as a cop than as Batman.
• Batman is more overrated than Superman
• Seeing Tim Drake kicking Damian's a$$ brings a smile to my face.
• Barbara Gordan's characterization is more defined as Oracle than Batgirl.
• I rooted for Superman when it comes their "fights"

It's probably subjective then, depending entirely on what exactly you've actually read. When I think of characters that i've read that have gone through similar things to Tim Drake I primarily think of Spider-Man, specifically Ultimate-Spider-Man (Comics, not that crappy tv show).

Don't think that the bolded 2 are unpopular opinions. Heck, I know the Jim Gordon one isn't.