Unpopular Batman Opinions

Batman is a repressed homosexual.

@namasthetu:

I'll take my Sherlock bonus points too.

Well played good sir, well played.

I think the size is still OK at the moment, the authors have just to realize that you don't have to bring everybody in to every crossover event and that it is totally OK when some members of the more extended family are just recurring support characters.

@dernman:

"It was a joke"

um I've been replying to most everyone's post here. What was a joke?

Edit: Nevermind. I looked back and can guess. I thought it was a joke but talked myself out of it. Probably because I don't think it was as bad as people made it out to be. It gets so much hate.

@sovereign91001:

I'd like more of a return to a classic style detective story telling and less of a reliance on brute force and gimmicks (battle suits, super high tech gear etc.) There is a great quote in A Lonely Place of Dying (iirc) that violence is the last resort, but they (Bruce and co) should out think criminals first.

If they do straight up Detective Work I don't think it should be in the main book. Go for the niche in Detective Comics. Though I do wish they would get rid of many of those gimmicks in the man books.

The Bat family needs the fat trimmed; I would ideally like Dick, Tim, Babs and Cass. The rest can get written out.

Agreed but Ideally it would be Nightwing, Oracle and the rest shipped off to various places in the future. The family concept would be different. I got ideas.

I'm not a fan of Jason being alive. That said if they had to bring him back Jason should have stayed a villain, mainly as an antagonist for Grayson as a dark mirror. Iwouldn't have been opposed to him going against Bruce from time to time though.

Agreed on staying dead. Agreed on being more villain like though for me he'd be the antagonist of both for different reasons.

Frank Miller is the absolute worst thing to happen to Batman for all the damage he's done to the character.

I agree and disagree. I don't like Frank Miller's Batman but it's had both positive affects and negative affects on mainstream. Such as I like how it helped bring more darkness to the character but hate how it brought the wank among a few.

Geoff Johns doesn't deserve the crap he gets from some of the more 'vocal' fans.

He deserves some but not all. There are times he does write a crap Batman but it's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be.

I loved the Earth 2 (pre crisis and New 52) Batman who found happiness with Selina and got out before he was consumed by his obsession.

I wish they left the trinity out of Earth 2. Whatever doesn't matter now. They destroyed that book so bad.

Speaking of Selina, she should always be the woman (bonus points if you get that reference)

The elusive woman in my opinion. She'll never settle down in marriage in my eyes. After she retires form Catwoman she'll open up a nightclub and become a fence.

Grayson is a good book.

ugh

I hate the idea of the Bat Signal. It really should be some form of encrypted cellphone or some other technology.

Go home Adam West, you're drunk. All kidding aside i like the Bat-Signal. Not for calling Batman no he wouldn't go for that but physiological warfare against criminals. For me Batman will always be a myth to most people and this will play into that. I also don't see the police having a way to contact Batman. I think Batman would have things monitoring the station that would signal him without them knowing. He would only show up to Gordon when he wants something those devices couldn't provide him.

Batman should use a voice synthesizer.

Maybe but I could easily imagine with grounded comic logic him having technique to change his voice without going crazy on the suspension of disbelieve.

Although he needs to be on the Justice League for what he represents, Batman should play a more supportive role as an info broker/team coordinator/investigator.

Agreed though I can see him doing side missions that require stealth while the heavy hitters are fighting.

Going into the field should be an absolute last resort, due to his S.O.P and his power levels.

SOP?

Batman and Superman should be brothers in all but blood.

Disagree with this. I don't think they should be enemies but I'd rather them not be soo close. Respect with a good working relationship is enough.

@dernman:

wish they left the trinity out of Earth 2. Whatever doesn't matter now. They destroyed that book so bad.

I'll drink to that in the DCnU. They served their purpose early on; namely to inspire the next generation after they died. That ideal was powerful, the book imo dropped noticeably after Robinson left. As for Pre Crisis I'm a big fan of the JSA/JLA adventures on separate Earths, I also enjoyed that E2 gave a different, more fluid look at the more established characters than on Earth 1 that were more bound to the status quo.

For me Batman will always be a myth to most people and this will play into that. I also don't see the police having a way to contact Batman.

I agree with this, he should be rarely spotted and shouldn't be photographed to maintain that mystique. Which is why I was saying he should be operating more in the shadows of the JLA; you can't have him front and center in an organization as well known by the public as the JLA (that conducts press conferences and the like) and then at the same time reasonably claim people think he's an urban legend. Either the JLA has to become a secret task force or something or Batman shouldn't be as exposed to the public of DC Earth.

SOP?

Standard Operating Procedure.

The whole urban myth stuff only works for settings like "Batman: Year One" and "Batman Earth One" that are more down to earth then the main continuity. And it is imo quite pointless when there are hundreds of other heroes running around and not really effective when he is fighting mostly "super villains".

It's not hard to keep Gotham down to earth in comparison. You can easily just say mystique and crazies keep most away. Heck the fact that he is a myth can work as a way to keep others away. It's also not pointless because unlike the other heroes you'd know what you're dealing with. With the myth batman you wouldn't. SOme wont think he's real. Others will create much more frightening images. I forget what issue it was but I know TAS did an episode where kids all sat around telling what they thought Batman was. Hell it some ways working within the myth makes more sense then some dude in a bat costume running around with no powers especially in a world where meta humans can kill with little effort.. Not to mention that it's not always a bad thing to have some autonomy between universes.

But in the main continuity you have one mega event in Gotham after the next. That Batman can stay an urban myth under this condition is quite impossible. And in the new 52 he mostly goes up against his most popular villains and these guys are not scared by the myth.

And TAS is a lot more down to earth than the main continuity, had still kind of a "Year one Feeling" (Batman was arround for much longer time but most of the villains just started in this series) and it didn't had any other superheroes (Justice League came much later), and Batmans existences wasn't a myth in this series.

Pretty much, for instance in Post Crisis continuity you had heroes operating on the fringes that many other heroes weren't even aware of. A lot of the magical characters spring to mind, like Doc Occult. I don't see why if fantastical characters like that can exist as urban legends Batman couldn't.

Since these guys don't fight villains that lunch city wide attacks and operate in public. And they don't have things like a Batmobil, a Batplane or a Batsignal. If Batman would operate on a smaller scale like in the 70s or 80s, or like many smaller characters do, but with the kind of stories that are published now it can't work.

He can still be kind of mysterious in a way that people don't know what kind of powers he has, but his existence should be a known fact.

Pretty much. If you're going to have Batman be an urban myth you really have to change the current setup of his comics. You obviously can't have stuff like Batman Inc or Batman being in the field with the Justice League if you want him to remain mostly a myth to Gotham, and the world, at large. Even, the Bat Signal alone starts to break the urban myth aspect, but is something that people can at least be written to justify away as the police using it to strike fear into criminals as a sort of trick. Once you have massive prison breaks at Arkham, or the Joker holding the entire city hostage, and Batman being very visible by not only the average citizen, but news cameras as well the entire thing falls apart. (Which i'm fairly certain is what usually happens anyways)

No those guys just fight inter dimensional beings that create big light shows and block out the sun can bring the apocalypses ans swallow the earth.

Batplane is stealth and usually only for long distances. Batsignal again could be psychological war fare. Half probably would only think it was the police messing with them.

THere isn't any reason those stories can't work now. It's not like most of his fights don't already take place in private to hide his identity. The only reason he's out it public now is because of real life popularity and writers use the populace to plot movement. THing is they can still do that with the imagination of the myth.. In fact the fact they don't know how certain problems are getting fixed could very well add to the mystique and hysteria of the city that keeps the bigger threats away. As with the way he is now with people knowing he's just a man isn't going to do it. In fact it would just attract them. Then you'd have to bring out those dumb mech suits and wank the character to justify why he's not dead in a second.

The New 52 writers dont make much use of Batman's rogues gallery, which kind of sucks.

This had me dying. I agree with everything though.

1 Death in the family is crap and isn't all that important anymore.

2 Barbara Gordon is better as Oracle

3 Barbara and Grayson are a crappy couple and probably would have fell off years ago had it not been for Timm universe.

4. Jason Todd using the Red Hood moniker is silly,

5 Jason Todd being on family friendly terms with the bat family is boring.

6 The idea of Jason Todd and Barbara Gordon as a couple is silly.

7. Pre 52 Huntress(Helena Bertinelli) is the most interesting female from Bat family.

8. Damian Wayne is pointless.

9. Batman romantic relationships are silly when considering his trust issues and the type of dedicated workaholic he is.

10. There should have never been another Robin after Jason Todd.

11. Michael Lane is a more interesting Azrael than Jean Paul Valley.

12. Batman's reasons for not killing the Joker are stupid.

13 Batman Forever is a good Batman movie.

Still like the idea of this thread months later.

1. Death of the Family was Snyder's worst arc and was just massively overblown.

2. Batman doesn't need to be an anti-social dick to everyone 24/7. He can have friends, romantic relationships, and in general get along with the people in his life.

3. Harley Quinn isn't and never should be treated as a role model or a figure to be respected.

4. At this point we don't need another Robin again for at least 10 years and we arguably should just never have another one at all, especially as long as the Bat Family is as packed with costumed partners and sidekicks as it is now.

5. The whole "Gray Son" concept that started with Dick and the Court of Owls back in the original event was trash then and its trash now.

-Bruce Wayne having a brother, Lincoln March, is a dumb and unnecessary idea.

• Batman should be listed as metahuman
• Some villains are not used well, like Mr Freeze, Croc, Man Bat, Hush
• Nolan's Batman is not the real Batman
• Gordon Batman sucks
• Scott Snyder's Batman is one of the worst Batman ever seen in the comics
• Morrison and Dini Batman is the best Batman ever seen
• Batman should be exclusively a character for adults only
• Get back Red Hood as a villain

He can't beat Superman.

• Disagree.
• Agree
• Disagree and Agree.
• Agree.
• Agree but it didn't start way.
• Disagree
• Disagree
• Agree

I never understood the underwear. Sure I didn't think twice about it in the animated shows, but....well....they don't really work in modern day. I think Batman and Superman both look 10x better without them. After all, it's just a costume. Ascetics. The underwear does nothing for the character to bring them back.

1.) I'd have to disagree with you on that. I think it's one of the most natural story points to include in Bruce Wayne's life. He lost his family as a kid and now he's growing a family around him.

2.) Agreed. I'm curious to read her comic, but from the outside I just don't recognize her. I mean, did she steal the real Harley's clothes and this is another New 52 Lobo fiasco?

3.) Highly disagree with that. Just like I said about Bruce Wayne having a family is natural, I think Damian actually introduced a lot of interesting concepts that can be played with for years to come. I mean, he's the biological son of Batman, and yet Batman has more chemistry and actually a father figure to all his Robins except Damian. Bruce has no idea how to race an actual son. I actually hated Damian when I read his introduction in Batman and Son (although I think that's just my dislike to all Grant Morrison stuff) but when I read Batman and Robin in New 52, Peter Tomasi made me actually like and see the big potential Damian can not only have on Batman himself but the characters all around Batman.

4.) While I disagree that Dick and Jason are the only two Robins worth anything (wasn't Tim like a better detective than either of them??) I will admit that Dick's Batman vs Jason's Villiany sounds like an amazing story line.

5.) Has Black Mask ever been treated as an A-list villain?

Thats part of this dumb trent to bring back stuff from the silver and golden age Morrison started. It just creates an unnecessary continuity mess.

@ultimatepower6 said:

1) He has Dick, though. And Alfred. And Barbara. And Gordon. When you start introducing Cass, Tim, Steph, Duke, Harper, whatever, it just becomes ridiculous and bloated. Hell, I only tolerate Jason because of his potential as the "black sheep" of the family/Punisher of the DC Universe. Not to mention it perpetuates the characterization of Bruce as a broken manchild, which I hate even more than Bruce being an unnecessary asshole to his friends.

2) Ivy just needs to go back to being a tempting flora fatale with eco-terrorist motivations and some on/off charged interactions with Batman. This cutesy anti-hero fluff isn't working. She's always been at her best as a villainess, IMO.

3) I'm just not a fan of his characterization in general, and it ties back into my point about a bloated Bat-Family.

4) I was talking about plot potential, not the actual characters themselves. Tim has obviously been pushed in the past as a better detective, which resulted in all Robins being diluted (Dick is the acrobat, Jason is the heavy, Tim is the brains and so on).

5) DC certainly seems to push him as prominent much more than he deserves. He'll probably get knocked off that pedestal by Hugo Strange eventually, though. Strange as a villain actually has A-List potential.

Other than the Dark Knight Returns the second most gushed about Batman storyline is Hush, and because people say it's a pivotal Batman story I thought I had to have it........so overrated. I mean, there were cool ideas mixed into it, but really? The one batman comic that fanboys flip their ___ over for is this? To be honest after I finished it I thought it was a big let down.

@ultimatepower6: Tim being the "better" detective is really more about what writer is wanking him at the moment or who is nerfing Dick. Chuck Dixon is in my opinion one of the best bat family writers whose always had a great handle on everyone. He had stated that Tim was great with computers and book type learning but Dick had street smarts and could read people like a book. No one was really "better", they were both just experts at different things.

1. Agree
2. Totally agree. In my head cannon she never even because Batgirl.
3. Disagree. I just don't think they should be thought of as a permanent couple. They got together when they were young broke up and that was it. Like most relationships.
4. Him being back or that he's a good guy again bothers me more
5. Strongly agree.
6. Strongly agree though I would use a harsher word.
7. I wouldn't say that I agree but she's certainly more interesting than Earth 2 or N52 Huntress
8. I love the little guys despite the PIS of his character but he wouldn't exist in my head cannon. At least not as Robin. He would still be raised an al Ghul without Batman's knowledge.
9. I'd say most of them are. There should be hints here and there that never fully launch but ya.
10. Agree. Though in my head cannon Tim is hooked up as Robin through Nightwing (not a sidekick) and never touches base with Batman. It's set in the future when Bruce is old, alone and bitter.
11. I don't care about either to be honest. Though in head cannon they're both part of an Assassins Creed type group working for the church. Meaning there are multiple Azraels.
12. Then find another because him killing him is just as stupid IMO. Though there is no point in arguing that.
13. If I was following you I would unfollow you now. :

That's what some writers often tried to claim, and maybe better than Jason due to him dying so young and therefore not having years of feats, but not really in regards to Dick.

@kiba Agreed on Dixon having a good handle on everyone. Tim was portrayed as being intelligent, but not some super genius or prodigy, and he honestly didn't need to be when you already had Oracle filling the role of technological wizard/hacker. Many writers simply wanted a way to seperate Dick and Tim as people, so they latched onto the intelligence/detective angle for Tim, even though his big claim to fame with it was figuring out Bruce being Batman. Beyond that his feats aren't really better than anyone else in the family.

Yes it does, and i'm someone that likes Silver Age stories. No problem with Hal Jordan coming back to prominence under Johns, but there's a limit. And Snyder's creation of March really just comes off like his creation of Duke and Harper does. Him wanting to leave some lasting legacy on the character, but not actually doing a good job of it.

I've only seen one thing here I disagree with. Harley and Ivy should NEVER be a couple. They're funnier and edgier the way they are. (Many of you may have not liked Friends, but you'll probably get what I'm talking about) Would Chandler and Joey have been as funny if they were gay?

@nathaniel_christopher: oh I don't know about March. The idea of Thomas Wayne JR has been about a while with Owlman from the Crime Syndicate either Earth 3 or the antimatter Earth. Seeing what happened to that character on Earth Prime(or whatever they're calling it) is something I've wanted to happen for a while.

@dernman: I'm nostalgic on Batman Forever, it was a good movie and a big part of my childhood.

Gonna throw my support behind this. Only one of the original films that I think was unarguably bad was Batman and Robin (Which then still had some good moments, like the stuff between Bruce and Alfred...but was still trash). Liked the suits, acting, storyline, and even the look. Gotham's typically a big, gloomy, dark city and i'm ok with that. But they chose to go a brighter route to some extent

Which I was also ok with. Riddler and Two Face were both enjoyable to watch too.

@nathaniel_christopher: THANK YOU!!! OH DAMN! That's my favorite batmobile!!!!

you're right for the most part except Jason Todd, I like him as a Hero. Shows he hasn't given up on being a hero all because Joker killed him, but instead wants to save people on his own rules. Also Batman isn't a love story so his love life is only going to be a way to humanize him to his readers, because a guy who is always focused on his goal to rid Gotham of evil and nothing else isn't relatable to normal readers.

This may be over-simplifying things, but it hits my feelings about Batman rather accurate:

@outside_85 said:

This may be over-simplifying things, but it hits my feelings about Batman rather accurate:

That is over-simplifying things. Sometimes Batman kicks or throws a batarang =P

• Batman's history should not have been condensed into 5 years.
• Barbara Gordon is better as Oracle
• Batman's prep time is one of the best aspects of the character and is the reason he is valuable to the Justice League.
• The Adam West Batman Tv show was good.
• The Batman Arkham series should have ended with Arkham City
• Arkham Knight's Batmobile segments are the worst part of the game.

Agreed. In fact, Batman's history from Post-Crisis shouldn't be condensed at all. You're talking about 20+ years of stories, with about a decade or so passing in the stories themselves (And that's not counting things that carried over from Pre-Crisis). It's silly to try to condense that. If they wanted Batman to have a 5 year timeline they should've just thrown everything out and made something new or only taken the first five years from the Post-Crisis timeline.

1. Disagree. It was a reboot sort of and with it he was rightfully made younger. The problem was they wanted to have their cake and eat it too. They should not have included so much of his history which was dumb. Like all of those Robins for instance.
2. Agree
3. nah it goes too far too many times especially with the league. He has other mental qualities and he toning down the prep isn't a bad thing.
4. Disagree.
5. Disagree. Though I didn't like the whole Arkham Knight thing I thought aspects of the ending was more fitting. THough even now I can see ways to continue it.
6. Only done the AR challenges so far. I don't have a problem with it other than it was racing and not missions.

@dernman: I agree that not all the Robins should have been added in the series. The Batmoblie is incorporated into most of the missions and it is so tedious.

eh I forgive it because I just love driving that thing.

I'm pretty sure N52 Batman has a ten year history, the Justice League has the five year time frame and Superman had one year before the League started.

Because they havely compressed the timeline.

@aahz: yes I know that but the posters above are saying it was compressed into five years and I was clarifying it was ten.

@kiba: But these 10 were allready compressed. He had allready a 10 year time line after Zero Hour (1994) and years it was still just a ten year timeline despite several year had passed within the universe.

And even the Zero Hour Time line was compressed, with beeing Robin for only 4 years. In the pre flashpoint comics he was never older than 12 when he became Robin and he was 19 (or at least 18) when he became Nightwing.

• Batman is a bully. Plain and simple. Sure I'm okay with Batman being a prick to bad guys, what I'm not okay with Batman being a prick to fellow heroes *cough* Superman *cough.
• Somebody should've whoop Damien's ass with a belt.
• Post Crisis/Pre 52 Tim Drake was used better than New 52/DC You.
• Batman's New 52 continuity......Nuff said.
• Harley Quinn.............Nuff said. But for real, I don't why, but whenever I see her, she pisses me off.
• Having a rogue gallery does not mean it revolves around just one villain. ALL. THE. TIME. If you don't know, I'm referring to The Joker. Speaking of which.
• I am sick and tired of the Joker being portrayed as this unstoppable, untouchable, omnipotent being that can get away with everything. What's worse is that Batman, Gordan, the GCPD, even the Rogues let it happen most times. I would've already been killing him. It seems people forget that although Joker is "crazy", he still a human being.
• Bruce Wayne is not a mask. It's who he is. He was born with it, and he'll die with it whether he's Batman or not.
• Jason Isaacs should've been cast as Batman instead of Ben AFFLECK!
• Why haven't DC shipped Poison Ivy with Swamp Thing?
• "Because he's Batman" is not valid reason for an argument. That's like me stating because he's Superman or because she's Squirrel Girl. Furthermore, and?
• Batman is the worst person to be friends with.
• The reveal of Arkham Knight was just plain stupid.
• Nothing bad I can say about Dick Grayson.

Feel like the bolded 2 aren't underrated, but instead widely agreed upon lol but you never know.

In regards to the "Bruce Wayne is not a mask" point, I agree 100%. Think some writers try to go too far into that area to make Batman a completely tragic tale.

Batman being a jerk is a character flaw. And it works well when stories actually acknowledge it as a character flaw instead of celebrating it (coughcoughEarthOne).

I don't think anyone actually thinks New 52 Tim Drake is better than Pre-FP Tim. Hell, I don't think anyone really likes what Lobdell did with Jason or Tim, outside of those who read RHATO just to get back at feminists.

Agreed with Bruce Wayne not being a mask. It was great that Morrison made that a recurring theme in his run.

Arkham Knight was very poorly plotted. It made Batman into the most dull and unlikeable character, and the Arkham Knight twist was heavily telegraphed miles away.