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Posted by road_warrior (145 posts) 2 years, 11 months ago

Poll: Should Jason Todd Have Stayed Dead? (58 votes)

Yes 50%
No 50%

The tragedy of a Robin dying is far more dramatic and impactful than a 'good Robin' storyline. The spectre of Jason's death was a powerful piece of Batman history. He's one of the dead that shoudl NEVER be brought back, to me.

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#1 Posted by kiba (3740 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree. I think it worked better with him dead. I think there should be casualties in Bruces war on crime and corruption. The only time I liked him being back was when he was fighting with Scarlet against Dick. Something about two sons fighting over daddy's legacy makes it awesome.

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#2 Posted by nickzambuto (29288 posts) - - Show Bio

If he didn't come back he would have stayed a two-dimensional silver age sidekick and never became a good character.

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#3 Edited by Rurgandy (480 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

If he didn't come back he would have stayed a two-dimensional silver age sidekick and never became a good character.

As opposed to being a two-dimensional 90s Image import? He's been alive for a decade, and the only good story he's had was a brief arc in Morrison's Batman and Robin.

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#4 Posted by HeroUp2112 (18326 posts) - - Show Bio

The tragedy of a Robin dying is far more dramatic and impactful than a 'good Robin' storyline. The spectre of Jason's death was a powerful piece of Batman history. He's one of the dead that shoudl NEVER be brought back, to me.

This.

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#5 Posted by GustavoBurciaga1 (652 posts) - - Show Bio

The Specter of Jason Todd was good but him coming back to life gave us Under the Red Hood which was an amazing story.

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#6 Posted by Aahz (1278 posts) - - Show Bio

I still think that they shouldn't have killed him in first place.

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#7 Posted by iaconpoint (1491 posts) - - Show Bio

If he would have remained a bad guy he'd have been okay. But starring in his own book and occasionally showing up in the Batbooks with guns on his hips goes against the character of Batman. Plus he's just a whiney piece of trash. The idea that everyone who dies needs to be resurrected needs to die and not be resurrected.

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#8 Edited by The_Waffle (690 posts) - - Show Bio

Damien should have stayed dead, Jason's a badass.

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#9 Posted by dragonrampage (452 posts) - - Show Bio

@heroup2112: yes and he was voted dead by fans from back then why didn't the company respect that?

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#10 Posted by HeroUp2112 (18326 posts) - - Show Bio
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#11 Posted by adrikito (331 posts) - - Show Bio

Depending on the success of his next series .. He should go dead or as batman villain.

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#12 Posted by KrleAvenger (26071 posts) - - Show Bio

For me NO but I agree with you.

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#13 Posted by william300 (783 posts) - - Show Bio

A while back I would have said yes, I originally didn't care for Todd (as Robin or Red Hood), but the animated Under the Red Hood animated film made him work for me, too bad DC won't just make it canon.

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#14 Posted by nickzambuto (29288 posts) - - Show Bio

@rurgandy: What about the Under the Red Hood movie and Arkham Knight?

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#15 Posted by TheDandyMan (5175 posts) - - Show Bio

Difficult to say, I like Red Hood but I also like it when characters remain dead.

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#16 Posted by Mr___death (273 posts) - - Show Bio

The Specter of Jason Todd was good but him coming back to life gave us Under the Red Hood which was an amazing story.

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#17 Posted by Azrael_Online (254 posts) - - Show Bio

@aahz said:

I still think that they shouldn't have killed him in first place.

True, I mean it's already been said that there was a very large make/break number of those votes made by one single person that actually swayed the vote to kill him off. In a way, that single person killed Jason Todd.

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#18 Posted by Deathstroke52 (7006 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe. However, he's way too oversaturated now and it's ruined what made Red Hood a good villain. Now he is a borderline hero.

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#19 Edited by kcomicfan (4690 posts) - - Show Bio

No. In my opinion, DC has done enough with the character to justify them bringing him back.

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#20 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (3301 posts) - - Show Bio

The most important thing Jason Todd has ever done as a character is die, so yes.

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#21 Posted by Dernman (26042 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes he should have stayed dead. Only thing good with him was when he first returned which should have been an elseworlds story.

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#22 Posted by ScouterV (7764 posts) - - Show Bio

If he would have remained a bad guy he'd have been okay. But starring in his own book and occasionally showing up in the Batbooks with guns on his hips goes against the character of Batman. Plus he's just a whiney piece of trash. The idea that everyone who dies needs to be resurrected needs to die and not be resurrected.

Honestly, I'd rather he just never interact with Batman again. Or Gotham. I know that will never happen, but honestly, I think it hurts Jason more at this point. He could do well in a solid team-up. He worked well with Supergirl, so that would have been a cool play on the Worlds' Finest idea.

@dragonrampage: I really don't know

While I don't think this played into bringing Jason back, I think I remember hearing something about shady tactics being used to pad the votes to kill Jason. Don't quote me on that though.

I'm of the idea that every character can be good, given the proper creative instinct is taken to that character. Some have done well with the character, and I think if you can get a solid writer behind the character (I.E. Stop letting Scott write him) he justifies his existence.

Even if that is as an anti-hero along the lines of how Deathstroke is portrayed in his series.

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#23 Posted by entropy_aegis (20855 posts) - - Show Bio

Between terrible stories like Countdown, his Nightwing arc, Winick's Batman & Robin arc and anything Lobdell/Outlaws and stories where he was outright not used correctly (according to his fans) like BTFC and Morrison's work you have to wonder if bringing this guy back was worth it. Countdown along with Cry for Justice is regarded as the worst of Post IC era(CT is massively longer so it's worse) while Lobdell books are ranked as the worst of the New-52 era. Jason has amassed appearances in more than 100 panned comics in over a decade. All the decent material has been versions of him dying and returning over and over.

So yes he was better off dead, even his new Arkham Knight shtick is being utilized in comics(Tynion's Tec) without him, Damian gave the bad Robin, JPV gave us the family black sheep, Helena Bertinelli gave us the Punisher in Batman's world. Getting killed by Joker is the only thing Jason has over them, small wonder writers go back to that again and again.

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#24 Posted by TDK_1997 (18734 posts) - - Show Bio

He was better off dead. The only good thing that came from him was Under the Red Hood. That is the only time since his return that he has been written as an interesting, complex character rather than the characters he has been since then. The whole idea of Jason Todd never really worked that well apart from the whole thing that this is Batman's greatest failure.

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#25 Posted by Rurgandy (480 posts) - - Show Bio

@rurgandy: What about the Under the Red Hood movie and Arkham Knight?

Under the Red Hood worked as a standalone film without a follow-up. The comic storyline was mediocre at best.

Arkham Knight had the worst story of the Arkham games (really, only Asylum was well-written), and is arguably the worst game of that series as well, outside of the Blackgate spin-off.

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#26 Posted by Black_Arrow (10279 posts) - - Show Bio

I wish he stayed dead.

Online
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#27 Posted by wrucebayne (568 posts) - - Show Bio

Jason Todd's greatest achievement is dying.

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#28 Posted by blackagar (950 posts) - - Show Bio

I love red hood :( no way should he have stayed dead.

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#29 Posted by mysoulz (870 posts) - - Show Bio

@rurgandy said:
@nickzambuto said:

If he didn't come back he would have stayed a two-dimensional silver age sidekick and never became a good character.

As opposed to being a two-dimensional 90s Image import? He's been alive for a decade, and the only good story he's had was a brief arc in Morrison's Batman and Robin.

To be honest, I don't really see how that story from Morrison's Batman and Robin is even considered a good arc for Jason. It certainly didn't benefit or developed him better as a character. He was written as a one-dimensional bland villain character. The writing on him as a character has been very inconsistent among other writers who seemed not to understand or grow him as a higher quality player since Judd Winick brought him back from the dead before the New 52 relaunch.

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#30 Posted by deactivated-5ba89dccd4593 (353 posts) - - Show Bio

It would've been good to see a hero STAY dead.

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#31 Posted by Azrael_Online (254 posts) - - Show Bio

You know how DC has skewed the dislike on Jason - his over saturation in the New 52. In just so many ways. In the Zero issue annual where they made his origin story completely calculated by the Joker, and then they made him this supernatural character - WTH was with that. That in itself kind of killed a lot of my like for the character anyways. Then looking at Batman and Robin Eternal they made him also as good at tech as Tim, and that shouldn't be; that's always been Tim's thing. There's also all of the crossovers. They should have kept Jason as he was prior to the New 52 - a character who appeared time to time

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#32 Posted by Rurgandy (480 posts) - - Show Bio

@mysoulz: It took a character with a history of being written inconsistently, and merged all of the discrepancies into one cohesive character arc, and creating a natural course of progression. Judd Winick had no plans for the character after Under the Red Hood; he only wanted to rehash Jason's Hush appearance. After that, he spent time running around as a slimy tentacle monster, or in Countdown to Final Crisis. Morrison gave Jason Todd actual relevance as a character, something that was lost once the New 52 happened, in which all of the momentum stirred up by the animated movie was lost when Lobdell decided to write him with the personality of an action figure.

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#33 Posted by Shintakie (709 posts) - - Show Bio

@rurgandy: I feel that statement is insulting to action figures. Red Hood and the Outlaws is probably my most despised book of the new 52 because it assassinated 3 great characters. Well, 2 great characters and 1 good character.

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#34 Edited by BlueHope (2681 posts) - - Show Bio

Personally I don't like when people bring deceased characters back,I don't even like things like talking with spirits or anything that in some way "cheat death",it make death look like not a big deal and that we shouldn't worry about a charater since they will come back eventually.

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#35 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (9130 posts) - - Show Bio

No, I think they're not doing too well with Redhood right now but Redhood is one of the best concepts to come from a Robin.

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#36 Edited by Nathaniel_Christopher (3301 posts) - - Show Bio

@mysoulz said:
@rurgandy said:
@nickzambuto said:

If he didn't come back he would have stayed a two-dimensional silver age sidekick and never became a good character.

As opposed to being a two-dimensional 90s Image import? He's been alive for a decade, and the only good story he's had was a brief arc in Morrison's Batman and Robin.

To be honest, I don't really see how that story from Morrison's Batman and Robin is even considered a good arc for Jason. It certainly didn't benefit or developed him better as a character. He was written as a one-dimensional bland villain character. The writing on him as a character has been very inconsistent among other writers who seemed not to understand or grow him as a higher quality player since Judd Winick brought him back from the dead before the New 52 relaunch.

Honestly the only Red Hood story that really matters at the end of the day is the original: Under the Hood. Everything after that ranges from just ok to terrible. The New 52 has just been failure after embarrassing failure. I truly believe that the only reason no one kills him off at this point is because they don't want to seem like they're doing the same thing for the third time now, considering that Damian just died and got resurrected as well.

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#37 Posted by mysoulz (870 posts) - - Show Bio

@rurgandy said:

@mysoulz: It took a character with a history of being written inconsistently, and merged all of the discrepancies into one cohesive character arc, and creating a natural course of progression. Judd Winick had no plans for the character after Under the Red Hood; he only wanted to rehash Jason's Hush appearance. After that, he spent time running around as a slimy tentacle monster, or in Countdown to Final Crisis. Morrison gave Jason Todd actual relevance as a character, something that was lost once the New 52 happened, in which all of the momentum stirred up by the animated movie was lost when Lobdell decided to write him with the personality of an action figure.

The things that you stated here, I agree with. But Morrison's handling on the character is really no different than how other writers written him, where he has really nothing to do, but to have his life revolve around being like Dick Grayson (like the tentacle monster instance from the Nightwing story arc that you brought up), instead of being his own character. It just gave me personally the "don't know what to do with the character" impression from writers.

@mysoulz said:
@rurgandy said:
@nickzambuto said:

If he didn't come back he would have stayed a two-dimensional silver age sidekick and never became a good character.

As opposed to being a two-dimensional 90s Image import? He's been alive for a decade, and the only good story he's had was a brief arc in Morrison's Batman and Robin.

To be honest, I don't really see how that story from Morrison's Batman and Robin is even considered a good arc for Jason. It certainly didn't benefit or developed him better as a character. He was written as a one-dimensional bland villain character. The writing on him as a character has been very inconsistent among other writers who seemed not to understand or grow him as a higher quality player since Judd Winick brought him back from the dead before the New 52 relaunch.

Honestly the only Red Hood story that really matters at the end of the day is the original: Under the Hood. Everything after that ranges from just ok to terrible. The New 52 has just been failure after embarrassing failure. I truly believe that the only reason no one kills him off at this point is because they don't want to seem like they're doing the same thing for the third time now, considering that Damian just died and got resurrected as well.

Definitely agree with you there. I don't think they'll kill him off either. I haven't really kept up much with Bat books, but from what I heard, he was terrible in Batman and Robin Eternal.

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#38 Edited by Rurgandy (480 posts) - - Show Bio

He had an actual character arc in Batman and Robin Eternal. It was a relatively small role, but it was far better than he's gotten in his own book. But RHATO fans only care about him being some super special fighter.

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#40 Edited by Aahz (1278 posts) - - Show Bio

@rurgandy said:

He had an actual character arc in Batman and Robin Eternal. It was a relatively small role, but it was far better than he's gotten in his own book. But RHATO fans only care about him being some super special fighter.

He had something similar in his own book. The All Cast stuff comes up in his own book only quite rarely. And while the RHATO fans are pissed "Batman and Robin Eternal" and "Batman Eternal" is that the book is not willing to give him credit for any skills. He is usually there to be beaten up, to be rescued by other characters (often the cameo of the weak) and to praise other characters (Barbara in BE, Tim in B&RE) for how awesome they are.And on top of it the Eternals completely ignores his characterisation from his own book.

And there would have been much better opportunities to use him in Batman Eternal. The best would have been to swich his and Luke Fox storyline. They could have used set up the romance between Luke and Barbara that later came completely out of the blue in Batgirl. And teaming up Jason with Spectre and letting him face Blackfire (one of the few villains were completely unique to Jasons time as Robin) would have been probably also more interesting. And since Jason was active in Hong Kong for some time, they could have also used him in the Falcone part of that story.

Tims treatment in BE is imo nearly as bad, B&RE they treated him better (with exception of the final act of the story) but this was again mostly done on Jasons expense.

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#41 Posted by Darkknight819 (134 posts) - - Show Bio

Difficult to say, I like Red Hood but I also like it when characters remain dead.

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#42 Edited by EddyNashton (7 posts) - - Show Bio

Well honestly I think they should have kept him dead. I liked the Dark Knight return version where Jason is dead and batman is losing his mind over it. I mean that gives Jason less light but I liked watching how batman reacted to Jasons death.

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#43 Posted by RustyRoy (16610 posts) - - Show Bio

@tdk_1997 said:

He was better off dead. The only good thing that came from him was Under the Red Hood. That is the only time since his return that he has been written as an interesting, complex character rather than the characters he has been since then. The whole idea of Jason Todd never really worked that well apart from the whole thing that this is Batman's greatest failure.

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#44 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (19685 posts) - - Show Bio

@adrikito said:

Depending on the success of his next series .. He should go dead or as batman villain.

Always thought of Jason as a villain/ Punisher type rather than a member of the Bat Family he is predominately a part of.