Losing their way again...?

Hi

First post, so indulge me a little?

I'm seriously thinking of stopping collecting both Batman and Detective current titles. Mostly due to them being so appallingly bad.

I've been a Batman collector for a long time and have a full run of DC and Batman (and the other lesser titles) from 1969 and I've read them all. The nineties were famous for being a nadir of the titles but in hindsight they weren't so bad. The Azrael run was awful but they came right in the end, though, IMO it wasn't until Kelley Jones's run that the series got back on track.

Coming to the end of both titles before the N52 re-launch Detective Comics became a lesbian Batwoman comic with no Bruce Wayne and I just struggled with being even vaguely interested in her. My knowledge of comics isn't great but I thought time period that that nearly killed the title because of poor sales? But it seems in the current Detective Comics they're come full circle again? Wtf?

Part of George Lucas's mistake with Star Wars is he made everyone and everything just a one degree of separation from everything else (i.e. Anakin building C3P0). DC seems to be doing the same thing with their characters (true most comics are guilty of this...). So, Shiva is Batgirl's Mom? Wtf?

Also. Shiva is not and never has been a major character in Batman's main titles so most of her canon comes from crossovers or specials (I'm not really sure here, she not an interesting character so I don't know much about her). To watch her easily defeat Batman in a recent issue was such a let down, as was Batman's comment that he would be defeated by her. I'm sorry, but the whole appeal of Batman is his ability to overcome and his all-round general badassness as the best fighter around. Sorry Shiva - go shove it you're a lame side character. The writers should really be pulled up for that alone.

I know they're trying to appeal to a wide demographic these days but I'm finding 120 pound women beating up teams of highly trained special forces teams.... just a bit too much of a suspension of disbelief.

Batman works best on his own in grippy noir stories. Just check out the dumpster murders if you don't believe me.

Anyway, would love to hear other peoples thoughts - though I understand some of you may want to slam me for some of the comments above.

Hopefully, the series drops out of another nadir before I totally lose heart.

The Pekapeka

I'm reading through trades so I'm not as far into these stories as you, but I'd say if you don't like it then don't collect it. Personally, I'm loving Detective, and Batman is okay. Vol 2 is slightly better than Vol 1 but we'll see what happens with the next one.

@pekapeka: Well, most of the problems with Batman books right now can be blamed on Scott Snyder. Both writers of the mediocre Detective Comics and Batwoman are his students and it may be assume they got their jobs because they are close to Snyder. Even Tom King seems to be taking queues from Snyder to the point where he seems like a completely different person than the guy who wrote Grayson and Sheriff of Baghdad.

The entire Batman line (excluding Beyond) needs a shakeup in writers. They really just need to get rid of Snyder and all his cronies and give the bat books to people with fresh ideas.

@rdclip: Amen.

Meh Shiva was revealed to be Cassandra's mom more than a decade ago. Granted this is first time since then it has been acknowledged. I dont have a problem with either Shiva and Cass beating up Batman but Tynion needs to actually add some effing depth, consistency to it.

He doesn't get Shiva at all. Agreed on giving Snyder the boot altogether.

@rdclip: I feel you so much, when one of Snyders students writes Red Hoods comic worse than Lobdell, you get that they're not suited to work for DC.

I'm just tyred of people praising Snyder like he's a legend, yeah he's a good writer, but he over complicates things a lot, and just finishes all that complication with a simple "he's batman, he's ready for anything" story most of the time.

I think you could only be annoyed by Shiva beating Batman if you hadn't read certain stories involving the character. Same goes for her being Cassandra's mother, which was true of the Pre-Flashpoint reality as well, as detailed in Cassandra Cain's Batgirl series. Both of these stem from a simple lack of knowledge regarding the character on your part. I suppose that i'd agree that Shiva has never been a major Batman character per se, but she has been treated as a major character in the DCU for 20+ years now, with it specifically being her fighting skill that she is so highly praised for. Post-Crisis/Pre-Flashpoint, she was confirmed as the best assassin in the world and a top martial artist who could easily tangle with Batman, Connor Hawke, and Cassandra Cain. She grew in popularity and use, going from The Question Series, to Batman, to Robin, to Batgirl, and to Black Canary and the Birds of Prey. Basically, if you're a notable martial artist in the DCU, you're going to come across Lady Shiva at some point. IIRC, her very first Post-Crisis meeting with Batman had the two of them fight and Batman unable to beat her. This woman's been kicking ass in comics for decades man lol

"the whole appeal of Batman is his ability to overcome and his all-round general badassness"

Yes.

"as the best fighter around."

No.

I think Snyder is a good, capable (not great) writer who has done some good stories in the past. I just think the guy has been working on Batman for so long that he is out of ideas and burnt out on Batman. The last few years, all his plot of been pretty much just big dumb fights with Batman trying to save Gotham from some baddie trying to blow it up. Gone are the days of clever stories with detective mysteries and smaller (but still interesting) threats. And then there's Snyder trying to shove his pet characters down everyone's throat...

Yeah, Tynion and Bennett are not the calibre of writers that should be working on a flagship character or even mildly popular as seen with Tynion's awful Constantine book. DC seems to have a nepotism/cronyism problem with things like them still keeping Lobdell around and hiring a rookie writer in David Finch's wife to write Wonder Woman.

This.