Poll Grant Morrison vs Frank Miller (57 votes)
Who has done more for Batman as a character? Who is the better writer? Who's Batman would win in a fight/chess game?
Who has done more for Batman as a character? Who is the better writer? Who's Batman would win in a fight/chess game?
Morrison, Miller legacy is great, but is made by mostly ignoring great writers before him and rewrite the past.
@jasoninthewoods: That I don`t like Miller.
@jasoninthewoods: Fine, you really want me to put input, Grant Morrison didn't create All Star Batman and Robin.
Without Miller we'd still have campy Batman.
Nop, Dennis ONeill, Steve Englehart and others changed that in the late Silver Age.
While Frank Miller's two batman titles were great, and established the character in the modern era, Morrison provided a long, epic run that was constantly good and provided a detailed deconstruction and analysis of the Dark Knight while displaying how truly exceptional Bruce Wayne is. Much respect for Miller's work but imo Morrison takes the cake.
Without Miller we'd still have campy Batman.
Nop, Dennis ONeill, Steve Englehart and others changed that in the late Silver Age.
Those are the unsong heroes of Batman history.
Morrison demonstrated a better understanding of the character than Miller and was able to tell an amazing story which referenced much of the characters history.
Miller did an amazing much needed revamp of the character, and then took the character in a questionable direction in entertaining if not overrated sequels.
@black_arrow: Admittedly I have only read Birth of the Demon and Batman Venom. I wanted to read more books from O'Neill but i think they're out of print :(. He was definitely one of the earliest writers to shape Batman as a more serious and darker character. Any memorable stories that you can recall as I am woefully ignorant of most of O'Neill's work.
Without Miller we'd still have campy Batman.
Nop, Dennis ONeill, Steve Englehart and others changed that in the late Silver Age.
Those are the unsong heroes of Batman history.
ONeill and Englehart still have an impact in modern comics, sadly we forget them way to many times to go with the sexier timeline where The Dark Knight Returns changed history.
Not the timeline where it was the natural evolution of times, happening beccause of incredible writers that redefine the character.
I'd have to vote Miller in terms of impact. A lot of people claim that Dennis O'Neill and company were already "darkifying" Batman before Miller came along, but they didn't really do as much as Miller did. They made a few steps forward, but Miller took the ball and ran with it. As much as people may be loath to admit it, Miller really did influence the Batman mythos more than those guys, particularly modern Batman.
Morrison...he really didn't have much impact. He did a decent run-through of Batman's history as a character, but the only two things he really added to the Batman mythos were Damian Wayne and Batman Inc., neither of which I consider positives.
In terms of storytelling, Miller wins again. Morrison is good at throwing out interesting ideas, but he's absolutely piss-poor at following through on them, he is very bad at characterization (Action Comics is a premier example of this - what little characterization Superman got in that is pretty much due to Sholly Fisch), and he regularly throws out plot consistency in favor of themes and symbolism.
Without Miller we'd still have campy Batman.
Nop, Dennis ONeill, Steve Englehart and others changed that in the late Silver Age.
True ,but Dark Knight Returns is the one that's always brought up.
And it's laughable that people think Morrison did more for Batman then Miller.
He did more to drive people away from Batman.
Without Miller we'd still have campy Batman.
Nop, Dennis ONeill, Steve Englehart and others changed that in the late Silver Age.
True ,but Dark Knight Returns is the one that's always brought up.
It had Batman vs Superman, its obvious people its going to remember the one with the bigger shock value.
Also it doesnt help DC always overrate the Miller impact and minimize other writers even from his generation, past generations and from the later generations.
1- Who has done more for the character? Frank Miller. Yes, writers such Dennis O'Neil made Batman darker and more serious before Batman, and their works, while notable never truly impacted or left a mark on the character, at least not the same way Miller did. Miller made Batman dark but took him to a whole new level, he actually made Batman mainstream. Almost every popular modern live action version of Batman has been somehow influenced by Miller one way or another, and we're seeing another evidence in the upcoming Batman V Superman where it has been confirmed that Miller's work has heavily influenced that version of Batman. Morrison on the other hand, while his work has been critically acclaimed never truly added much to the Batman mythos besides Damian Wayne. His portrayal is one of the strongest in a while, but he never revolutionized Batman the same Miller did.
2- Stronger writer? Depends on each fan's individual taste. But for me, DKR and Year One are stronger than RIP and Batman and Son. And personally, some of Morrison's plots are too convoluted and complicated for me, and I'm not a big fan of RIP, though & Son, Inc and the Black Glove are all very stronger stories, but still not as strong as DKR or Y1.
3- Who would win in chess? Morrison's. While Miller's Batman is a tactical and prep master, Morrison's Batman's intellect is just uncanny, it's on a whole other level. His back up plans have back up plans in case the back up plans of his main plans don't work, which is pretty rare. He thinks 10 moves ahead of his opponent and beats them before they know what hit them. This Batman would win the chess match before he even makes his first move. To compare feats, Miller's Batman, while old, still barely managed to beat an injured Superman with 10 years of prep and some help from Green Arrow and Robin. A strong feat but not as strong as Morrison's Batman, whose plans completely took out the entire JL, including Superman, GL, Wonder Woman, Wally West and J'onn J'onnz (though he didn't apply them himself and they were slightly modified). Another feat, one time he was actually invisible to all of Superman's senses. This version's intellect is just on a whole different level.
Morrison for me. I love the way he writes Batman way more whether it's his Batman in JLA or his Batman in his run. Batman RIP was one of the most entertaining comics I've ever read.
@black_arrow: Admittedly I have only read Birth of the Demon and Batman Venom. I wanted to read more books from O'Neill but i think they're out of print :(. He was definitely one of the earliest writers to shape Batman as a more serious and darker character. Any memorable stories that you can recall as I am woefully ignorant of most of O'Neill's work.
Those are the only works of Denny I've read as well aside from the Azrael issues I've read from No Man's Land. Birth of the Demon is absolutely fantastic and one of my favorite comics that I've ever read.
@playswithsquirrels: Oh wow I did not even notice that o'neill wrote some of the issues in No Man's Land! Yeah Birth of the Demon was really good and a great origin story. Ra's Al Ghul was really a sympathetic character and it was interesting to see the transformation from this benevolent, compassionate doctor to this sociopathic megalomaniac. With all that he went through I was not surprised that he turned to the dark side. All it takes is one bad day....
Yeah Morrison's Batman is such a boss
@symbioticspider-man: Miller is anti-islamic? Can I get a link that indicates that. I believe you, but I just want to see the article and stuff so I can see what he said.
@captain_batman_ftw: Can`t remember the comic name, but he wrote something about a hero called The Fixer. It strongly implies that he hates Islams.
@captain_batman_ftw: Can`t remember the comic name, but he wrote something about a hero called The Fixer. It strongly implies that he hates Islams.
Holy Terror, it was supposed to be a Batman book, this site says Fixer was basically the ASBAR Batman.
@symbioticspider-man: Miller is anti-islamic? Can I get a link that indicates that. I believe you, but I just want to see the article and stuff so I can see what he said.
posted 11.7.2011
Everybody’s been too damn polite about this nonsense:
The “Occupy” movement, whether displaying itself on Wall Street or in the streets of Oakland (which has, with unspeakable cowardice, embraced it) is anything but an exercise of our blessed First Amendment. “Occupy” is nothing but a pack of louts, thieves, and rapists, an unruly mob, fed by Woodstock-era nostalgia and putrid false righteousness. These clowns can do nothing but harm America.
“Occupy” is nothing short of a clumsy, poorly-expressed attempt at anarchy, to the extent that the “movement” – HAH! Some “movement”, except if the word “bowel” is attached - is anything more than an ugly fashion statement by a bunch of iPhone, iPad wielding spoiled brats who should stop getting in the way of working people and find jobs for themselves.
This is no popular uprising. This is garbage. And goodness knows they’re spewing their garbage – both politically and physically – every which way they can find.
Wake up, pond scum. America is at war against a ruthless enemy.
Maybe, between bouts of self-pity and all the other tasty tidbits of narcissism you’ve been served up in your sheltered, comfy little worlds, you’ve heard terms like al-Qaeda and Islamicism.
And this enemy of mine — not of yours, apparently - must be getting a dark chuckle, if not an outright horselaugh - out of your vain, childish, self-destructive spectacle.
In the name of decency, go home to your parents, you losers. Go back to your mommas’ basements and play with your Lords Of Warcraft.
Or better yet, enlist for the real thing. Maybe our military could whip some of you into shape.
They might not let you babies keep your iPhones, though. Try to soldier on.
Schmucks.
posted 9.23.2011
My new comic book (or “graphic novel”, I suppose it should be called, because it’s square bound) is naked propaganda.
“Propaganda” has, over time, become a pejorative term. This is curious, since most of our MSM is precisely that: propaganda. One need only read the front page of the sacred New York Times, that Gray, Senile Old Lady, let alone explore the serpentine chasm that is its editorial page, to read news so slanted as to be beyond recognition of the facts on the ground.
So when I say that my new book, HOLY TERROR, is propaganda, I mean so in all the ways that the virtuous works of Thomas Paine practiced it, through to the ways that the current, shameless MSNBC practice it. I employ propaganda in HOLY TERROR as such. Without apology.
Let’s keep in mind that, back in the forties, Superman punched out Adolf Hitler. Or that the O’Neil/Adams Green Lantern/Green Arrow series in the seventies was a left-wing screed that climaxed with Jesus strung up on the head of a jumbo jet. Subtle stuff, all of it.
Come on. Propaganda is rampant. News objectivity is a twentieth-century myth. We only complain about propaganda when we don’t agree with it.
3000 of my neighbors were murdered. My country was, utterly unprovoked, savagely attacked. I wish all those responsible for the Atrocity of 9/11 to burn in hell.
I’m too old to serve my country in any other way. Otherwise, I’d gladly be pulling the trigger myself.
FM
This are the one in his web site, he thinks Islam is evil, everything is wrong and he believe they should burn in hell.
He joins Fawstim in the list of aholes that hate Islam and justify this by 9/11.
I normally don't like Grant Morrison's work. If I went by percentage, then I definitely like more Miller's stuff than Morrison ESPECIALLY when it comes to Batman. Only Batman story from Morrison I like is Arkham Asylum.
However, Miller is a huge a-hole and Morrison is one of the coolest people I've heard talk.
My vote goes to Morrison.
Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment