Did Batman think of Cassandra as his adopted daughter?

So, my knowledge of post-crisis Batman is only piecemeal right now and I'd like to get to know more about Cassandra Cain. I've read a few threads that stated that Batman was going to adopt Cass before DC ruined her. So does that mean that we should place her in the same category as the Robins as Batman adoptive children?

Also what are the definitive Cassandra stories I should read to really get a grasp on the character?

It depends. Batman might have adopted her like he did with the Robins, but he never really got the chance. You could definitely say that they were very close, but whether they viewed eachother in that Father and Daughter relationship is really unknown and could only be settled by if we saw them in a similar situation such as Bruce and Dick. DC definitely did waste the potential in Cassandra but she definitely was a solid character when she was actually written as we all hoped she would have later became.

@rdclip: Bruce actually adopted her shortly before he "died", but this wasn't really confirmed until after his "death", and when he returned she had left Gotham for Hong-Kong (and I can't remember much interaction between them afterwards).

Cass never really lived with Bruce and was part of his life outside the costume (but she actually lived with Barbara for quite some time), and was in comparison to the Robins allready quite old when Bruce met her the first time (roughly 16-17) and allready and adult (18-19) when he adopted her.

Imo she doesn't really fall in the same category as the Robins (or at least as Dick, Jason and Damian).

@aahz:

Agreed

@aahz: Cass did live with Bruce for some time. I think it was during No Man's Land but I am not entirely sure.

@jayc1324: I'm pretty sure that she lived with Barbara during No Man's Land, but No Man's Land anyway doesn't really qualify as Live outside the costume.

And iirc she wasn't aware of his civilian identity untill Fugative.

You're right I got the story wrong. It was a little before RIP that she started living with Bruce

What Batman thinks really comes down to writers and editors. Batman's relationship with Cass was a mostly one sided affair from the Cass writers. Puckett saw it I guess, and the later 2 writers Beechen and Garbrysh(or something like that) clearly did but Loeb didn't, Azz didn't, Winick didn't, Morrison didn't and the editors overall didn't. They had no interest in Batgirl being Batman's daughter, its not something that gained momentum or recognition.

And with Cass no longer even Batgirl, the New 52 and the revisions to her backstory in the last 2 years it doesn't even matter.

Batman never really saw her as his daughter but he has always had a strong feeling of compassion for her. He sees in her what might have happened to him if he didn't have the right mentoring and he has always felt the need to give to her a sense of feeling normal by having a family. However, their connection has changed way too many times throughout the years for me to say anything with 100% confidence. The writers have changed their relationship way too many times and Snyder and Tynion haven't helped out a lot during recent years since her introduction again to the DCU.

For me, however, she will always be a daughter to him because of Puckett's run on Batgirl. I just love that book way too much and this moment is one of my favorite.

@aahz: The Robins are held in higher regard than characters like batwoman batwing and bluebird

Ya know, I think he loves them all (barring Duke, screw him Lel)

You never really saw it in panel iirc.

And at least with Dick and Jason there are some stories where they did normal father son activities together, something you never saw him do with Cass.

@aahz: bro, she needs a solo series. Not Babs, but her IMO.

She was adopted Pre-Flashpoint, but ever since Flashpoint happened i think its no longer the case, at least for now, and if it is, it happened off-panel.

Thats what everyone knows but few actually say...

As for Babs, she needs a solo series as Oracle, not as Batgirl, she's driving the mantle into the mud, next issue it will probably fall below 20K and its still on issue number twelve...not even Steph Batgirl run sold this bad, like never...Batgirl is currently breaking records of low sales.

Btw, we all know that with the Batgirl movie coming out soon starring Babs as Batgirl, she will keep being Batgirl, but she shouldn't IMO.

I do however, enjoy where Cass is now, i think Detective Comics is a good place for her now, and the best possible place for her and her teammates on the book, for now.

I think all the Robins are his "sons." Some of the Batgirls have a similar relationship.

I agree.

I love Babs (she is one of my favourite comic characters), but not as Batgirl. She was amazing as Oracle. She was strong, ultra-competent, inspiring, and also had interesting character flaws. She was a great, unique character with a great journey.

TBH, as Batgirl, she just another run-of-the-mill hero. Oracle really stood out among legions of other heroes. Even if she didn't punch bad guys any more, she was doing more good and was more powerful behind her monitor than a dozen heroes on the street.

I don't know much about Cass, but based on what I've read, she was also had a great character arc. One which, IMO, is more interesting than Babs as BG.

I think BG is selling so bad because long-term fans hate the direction the book has been taking since Stewart and Fletcher made Babs into a brain-dead hipster who acts like a teenage girl instead of a grown-ass woman. Granted, Gail Simone's n52 run wasn't very good (Babs was way too weepy and morose all the time) but at least you could see hints of the character that was around before the reboot.

Unfortunately, DC wouldn't ever have the stones to make Babs Oracle again. If they put her in the chair again, SJWs and the non-comic media would rain fire down on the company for permanently injuring a female character.

Babs is on her 66th consecutive issue as Batgirl, Steph's run ended at 25, Cassandra's first book ended at 66 as well IIRC. In about 7 months I believe her run will surpass both Cass runs put together. So even modern Babs has been BG longer than Steph and is well on her way to outlasting Cass, not even counting her pre TKJ career.

Just saying, not that I care for the Batgirl book, didn't bother after DOTF.

@bat_girl_cc: yeah but maybe people would buy more if it were Cass BG and not Babs BG ya know

I think thats more a problem with the current direction and writing as with the Character.

Lol, what a biased way to put it...

Babs is on her 66th consecutive issue as Batgirl...after 1 clear change in directon both characterization-wise and art-wise, etc, not to mention new writter and artist's, which should have been a new number 1 right there...and a cancelled run due to low sales...with her as Batgirl...Cassandra's Batgirl solo lasted 73 issues, and only then was cancelled, and unlike Babs, it wasn't cancelled due to low sales...Babs is going to break several records as Batgirl, but all negative ones...lowest selling issues ever for a Batgirl solo...longest running Batgirl solo selling below 20K until its cancelled (its inevitable)...and she will be the one and only to be granted with 3 solo runs as Batgirl ones after the others, all getting cancelled as they go...(yes, after the current Batgirl title gets cancelled due to low sales (inevitable) Babs will get yet another shot, and if the nothing changes, it will be cancelled again...

@entropy_aegis: Oh, i forgot, if the current run gets cancelled by issue 15, it will also be the shortest Batgirl solo run, ever...also another record, lol.

Batgirl still sold above 30K when they moved her to Burnside, that still quite out of the region where they cancel stuff due to low sales, and afaik also the region where the sales of Cass Batgirl series were for the most part.

Babs is selling poorly cause of the direction they took the character. Under Gail she sold really well. Every small comic book runs out of steam after a while. I would be interested in a class solo, but it wouldn't do better long term than the current book. Are any dc books doing significantly better, time wise in rebirth than new52?

@aahz: @bat_girl_cc: let's get real. She's getting a movie. No way they're gonna put her in a wheelchair again.

@jameswayne: you mean Cass right.

Class lol :p

@rdclip: hope all these comments/scans helped?

@aahz: 30k isn't bad, is it?

oops. yeah cass. 30k isn't bad but not great. not cancellation numbers in my opinion. when babs launched she was the highest selling female lead comic. It is gonna be interesting to see if dc can pull off steady sales without marvel super gimmicks (I say super cause DC and every company does use some form of gimmicks)

It's a little vague and the information is kinda contradictory. I'll be willing to say that he had a sort of fatherly fondness for Cassandra, but not as much as for the Robins. Babs did, however, think of her as a little sister.

I do wish DC would go back to this. I think Cass really needs a family (moreso than any of the Robins) since both her parents are psychos. She would be a fun addition to the manor; Damian would try to boss her around and she wouldn't have any of of his BS. Plus, the Bat family just needs a female character that is more than just tangentially related to Batman (ie a daughter to Batman like the Robins are his sons)

Unfortunately, as of now, she has to take a back seat while DC cowtows to Snyder and King's pet characters Duke, Harper and Gotham Girl.

@rdclip: agreed.

Ooh and don't forget Tynion.

Uurghh, I dropped Tec.

Big mistake, you're missing out on the best and most awesome bat-book, but to each its own.

Yeah, Tynion doesn't deserve to be writing such a high profile book. His premises are fine, but he fails in execution and can't for the life of him write a character with their proper characterization (anyone else remember his Hellblazer run where he made Constantine act like a horny, gay schoolboy) Batbooks in general just suck right now; the only one that is more than mediocre is Beyond.

I'm not going to say Tynion (and Bennett on Batwoman) got his job because he is buddies with DC's golden goose, Scott Snyder, but cronyism is a big problem in the industry.

@rdclip: agreed. It's a shame really, because Tec dhould be a great title. Ooh well

@rdclip: Do you really think cronyism does occur in the comic jndustry?

I honestly dont knkw

Yeah, it happens. How do you think Meredith Finch got the gob writing Wonder Woman despite being a total novice at writing comics? Her husband is a prolific artist. Brian Hitch, while being a veteran artist, also had little writing experience before DC have him Justice League. There's a Superman editor who apparently is a serial sexual harasser, yet keeps his job. Scott Lobdell ruined n52 Superman and Teen Titans, but is apparently friends with some higher ups at DC so he keeps getting work from them.

And those are just recent examples from DC. I'm sure the same has happened for decades with both publishers.

Just like many businesses, if you want an easy way to the top, buddy up with (or be related to) someone with power and pull.

@rdclip: sad. If that takes away a potential rising writer's chances, it's even more sad imo.

She isn't like the robins because as someone posted before, she was a lot older when Bruce took her in. However, in terms of being a father figure for her (Sorry David Cain) Bruce is probably the one she loves the most.

@batofgotham2000: agreed.

I'd still like some suggestions on what books (trades, particular storylines) to read to really get a good grasp of the character. I know the basics of her history, but not the specifics you can only get through reading the stories.

I summon :

@Bat_Girl_CC