All Star Batman Discussion (SPOILERS)

Since there isn't another thread, I thought about making one that we will discuss the highly expected blockbuster title.

My thoughts on the first issue: Everything was looking great. A different approach to storytelling, from the color palette to the setting. I thought it had potential to be a great ala Mad Max chase. Even Snyder seemed to dial down his unnecessary dialogue and that complimented the story.

Then the Snyderisms happened...

OMG can the guy only tell two freaking stories? It seems the only stories he can tell is either about a very secret organization that finally makes its move or about a secret that it will change Batman forever. I mean come on!!!! Its not exciting if every other story (literally this past years), has a SHOCKING secret revealed. Plus hyping his creation, that lets be honest, he won't stick, because they just have nothing new to offer.

All in all, started great, has tons of potential, killed much of my expectations though.

Am in agreement

What I liked

No Joker.

Great Two-Face, Snyder deserves props here, most writers struggle with this character, either he's a mobster or too much of a sympathy character. Snyder found that delicate balance and I overall I was very pleased with how Snyder approached Dent's villainy and methods of criminality.

Change of setting, no more drag monologue about Gotham being this or that(that's King job these days).

I preferred Batman's characterization much more, he sounds unique whereas previously he came across as a generic action hero.

Didn't like the typical Snyderissms which are as follows:

What does Snyder have against Alfred?

Jobbing bad guys, I hope Ghost, Beast and Croc are actually a challenge. The 3 bugs that showed up here had little to differentiate them from henchmen both in terms of power and personality.

Duke... Snyder is coming across as increasingly desperate now. After celebrating Robin just a few months back with Batman and Robin Eternal and making a huge deal out of it, now suddenly Duke is supposed to be better than Robin and Batman totally doesn't need Robin. I dont even have a problem with that line of thinking but coming from Snyder at this point is just hypocritical. He just sounds bitter that his creations were prevented from becoming Robin. Snyder is failing to understand that these antics will antagonize fans, Damian and Tim fans disliked him before,now just wait till Dick and Jason fans turn their guns on him, Snyder is practically begging for it.

Definitely picking up the next issue.

I gotta say I was impressed. Snyder has already told a better story than King has in only one issue. I loved the tension and the battles but the villains seemed a little bit too easy even though these were no serious guys.

It indeed feel like Mad Max slightly and this made it even better when you think about it.

Snyder's dialogue was top notch. I am glad he dropped the all dark, phylosophichal and long af dialogue he had written in his past work. This type of dialogue, short and straight to the point, made the story more compelling and thrilling.

So far a tremendous job on Harvey. I hope the characterization continues to be on this level in next issues as well.

I totally agree with you on the whole secret thing-y. Snyder needs to stop doing this to every single one of his stories. It's becoming more than just irritating or frustrating.

What I didn't exactly get was the whole Alfred thing at the end. What exactly happened?

@tdk_1997: Alfred has a terrible secret that Bruce will learn about.

I thought what he was referring to was that he had sent someone to shoot down Batman and I was like "WHAT?!?!". But now that you've said that makes a lot more sense.

P.S: What I forgot to say was how beautiful JRJR's pencils were. Now that I've seen him on Batman I must say that this guy is probably my favorite artist of all time.

Alfred did sent someone to shoot down the Bat-plane. At least it was implied he did.

Yeah, his pencils here were magnificent. If he has time he can be great.

Yeah, that's what I understood by that panel as well. However that got me thinking, why would he send someone to kill Bruce. It doesn't really make any sense at all, at least for now.

Yeah. I would like to see him do something other Bat related after he finishes All Star Batman.

He probably knew that Bruce would survive. He sent them to stall him and change his mind.

He can't keep the quality up in a monthly. I would prefer if he got a solid writer and did something outside of the main titles.

So, this is probably a stupid question with an obvious answer, but it's 2:45am here in Aus and I can't work it out for the life of me while I am this tired:

Who is Batman referring to in the back up story, after Lark says "Villain...? ...Jason?"? Based on the context, it would have to be someone specifically that he has trained and they then turned evil, and this has to be in the N52/Rebirth continuity.

Or are we supposed to not know yet?

Thanks :)

We aren't supposed to know, I think.

Back in the day he has proven that he's capable of doing a monthly with his Spidey run and his Thor run.

I just cant stand Romita Jr art.

It's rotating artists. Romita won't be permanent.

Was liking the issue until the Snyderisms dropped with Batman saying this will "hopefully be better" and that he "doesn't need a robin either."

Dropped like a sack of potatoes. I'm not reading the book for Duke, the blandest character in the universe. I'm reading it for Bruce.

And even that failed.

Of course, your entitled to your own opinion, but two lines of dialogue was all it took for you to drop the book? Also, considering the trauma Batman went through losing his son and nearly losing his family to the Joker, its entirely possible he's "done" with the idea of Robin, since his recovery he's stronger and more capable than he's been in years (thus his easy dispatching of the bugs) and may be grooming Duke to be something stronger and better than the Robins. Bruce may be considering a proper protege, rather than a sidekick/child dynamic. I think you might be judging the whole thing a tad too harshly considering its only the first issue, and all of Snyder's arcs since the Black Mirror have read better as a whole.

I didn't feel Superheavy (the Gordon and Mr. Bloom arc) fell into secret organization or secret that will change batman forever, so I'd say he can tell more than two stories. Also, most Batman (and comic book writers in general) writers have a couple of themes and neuroses that they always feel they need to cover, I'm willing to let them slide if the story is good, and Snyder has been at his worst incredibly solid, at best a revelation for the Bat, so I'm thinking he'll pull this arc together, I'm hoping Tom King fairs half as well on the regular Batman book.

I'm not going to drop the book like that, backtracked that. HOPEFULLY Snyder doesn't make out Duke to be the best thing ever and has him job all the Robins, or some other PIS crap. I get the whole 'making Duke an actual protege' thing, but is there a need to insult the Robins? Snyder probably put that there because he was upset his baby couldn't be a real Robin.

Make his growth natural and don't force it down our throats is what I'd tell Snyder. I don't need to be reminded that "I'm trying something new, something better." all the time.

And the "Batman doesn't need a Robin either." bit was so OOC, IMO.

Otherwise the book is good, Snyder just needs to stop forcing his creations down our throats and let things progress naturally. And make Duke different at least.

He is basically Tim Drake reskinned.

I greatly enjoyed the main story. Very intrigued by it. Not that fond of the back-ups. They were clever but I'm not that into Duke yet.

I am not a fan of Snyder's characterization of Batman in the first issue, but the plot is interesting and I like the villains so I am going to pick up the second issue.

It felt really out of place. "Batman doesn't need a Robin." Seems like characterization that misrepresenting Batman more than anything. That couldn't be further from the truth considering his son is Robin, one, and two, Detective Comics is all about the Bat Family. Duke really is Snyder's pet character, he doesn't have a role that couldn't be filled by an existing character in the Bat Family, and this is coming from a guy that really liked We Are Robin and his role in it.

Otherwise, great issue. Loved Snyder's Dent and JRJR's art was mostly great. If Snyder didn't learn to dial things back, I will drop the book in an instant (like I did before Superheavy began). I don't think I'll ever be on board with another Snyder "epic."

Pretty much agree with all of this, especially with the characterization of Bruce and Harvey.

Snyder stated that this arc in total will last 13 issues, 5-6 will be about Two-Face, then we'll get one and done's maybe two part arcs with Freeze, Ivy, possibly Catwoman and Penguin after that we'll move on to the mystery villain of this story. I assume it's this guy that Bruce referred to and we'll find out like 11 months from now.

I'm betting on a renegade Bruce clone. But it's still a typical Snyderissm, everything we know was wrong and everything blah,blah, an overused trope at this point.

The setup with Two-Face was a good idea, but the execution was so poorly mishandled with the nonsequential order of events being used as a gimmick rather than a way to enhance the storytelling and add tension or weight to current day events. Might be the first Snyder book that is legitimately bad.

If he pulls off something like that again it will really ruin this book for me and I think for many others as well. Snyder needs to stop relying so much on these old, cliched plot twists that really aren't plot twists anymore.

I wanted to pick it up, but I saw the disgusting art and dropped it.

Get it its worth the read. Also the artist are rotating.

Boo

Wow, I'm really surprised at all the complaints. What happens when an actually bad Batman book hits? This was well written start to what sounds like a creative journey with some actual stakes, great characterization, and glorious action. Its asking some important questions while still moving the story along at a great pace, and unlike any dozen of alter universe takes, its very grounded in current events and themes continuity-wise.

Batman trying something new, and not accepting another Robin really that poor a choice? Anything from Jason's death, to the battle for the Cowl, to Damien's assassination shows why recruiting a robin is becoming more and more a unfair risk to anyone who gets involved. And the Robins have their own movement now, they are their own entity and have grown apart from Batman and his work, though they will always be supportive of it.

*shakes head* truly don't know who opened the hater-aide on this book.

@zur_en_arrh:

Some people just don't like Snyder's writing. The characterizations seem like a joke half of the time. The push for Duke seems underwhelming. It's just their opinion. I don't get upset when people state their dislike for King's Batman, even if I think its amazing.

@zur_en_arrh said:

But Snyder is totally setting up (or trying to set up) Duke as a new Robin, except he's not called Robin. That comment was literally just Snyder being butthurt that barely anyone likes Duke or even wants him around. If Batman were really serious about not accepting another Robin, he'd ditch the sidekick stuff entirely, and tell Harper and Duke to go and take a hike. But he won't do that, instead he'll accept them, while telling it to guys like Dick, who have actually been around long enough to know what the heck they're doing.

Pretty much this. Robin, Batgirl, Spoiler, Lark, whatever you want to call them they're all the same basic thing to Batman. This just came off as Snyder specifically focusing on the Robin name because he was angry over Duke not being able to take it on.

However, I enjoyed the artwork and general storyline that's unfolding. I'm happy to see Snyder giving Two-Face some focus, since it's been a while since that character has had a notable storyline.

So from what I'm hearing, Snyder is really doing another 'Batman has an unknown dangerous secret that could change everything forever' but this time with an unknown disciple who turned all Darth Vader on Batman's attempts to be Obi Wan?

Oh and it's not Jason Todd just so he can pretend that it's not been done before.

KGBeast is badass

I'm surprised they dug him back out of limbo.

Duke's costume looks terrible.

Duke is extremely lame.

He's been active in the New-52, Aquaman and the others specifically, he was actually the main villain of the second arc. This arc may do a lot more for KG Beast than anything it'll ever do for Two-Face.

Duke is waste of papers sooner Snyder realise is better.

So what do you guys think of Harold being back? If there's one character in the Batman mythos that I never expected to show up again it was definitely him. He's one of those quirky little concepts that exists within a certain period of comics, so that if you skipped the 90s Batman Era you could have missed him completely, and when Hush rolled around and he popped up again (Just to be killed off, even though he'd already received a much better and more meaningful send-off previously) you could be forgiven for having zero idea who he is, because unlike Alfred or Jim he's not a side character that appears in other media all the time.