I let my breasts do the talking

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Posted by RazzaTazz (11948 posts) - - Show Bio

I could start this off by launching into another criticism of how I don't think the female Corps members are all that well represented in the new 52, but it is kind of beside the point.  In fact there are very few female Corps members of any kind with a prominent role in the DCU now.  There is one pretty generic and underutilized one in the Green Lantern Corps (which I have stopped reading), Bleez, Fatality and recently reintroduced Lyssa Drak.  Gone are Soranik, Arisia, Iolande and even while Carol Ferris is around she isn't doing a lot and absolutely no costumed heroics.  With that Bleez and Fatality are doing well enough as female leads in the new 52 and in fact Bleez has been a pleasant surprise as she is being used in two series and while Fatality is in only one, she still has a decent enough portrayal.  Still while reading last week's Green Lantern: New Guardians I did notice something odd.  Truthfully it more highlighted something which I had seen the previous issue, but I was not sure would repeat.  Essentially Fatality is being used actively in a panel, yet all we see are her breasts (I included the above panels in the scans just in case no one believes me): 

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
 
 In a sense this is not really a big deal, but in another sense it kind of reduces Fatality to nothing more than a sexual object.  Of course she doesn't appear this way throughout, but these scenes are kind of blatant.  There are of course those who might argue that the artist is trying to save time by not drawing the face, but essentially this reduces her to only a symbol (a sex symbol).  If the action instead consistently cut to Kyle and showed only his ring during conversations we would still figure out who is doing the talking, but fans would certainly make mention of the fact that Kyle is more than his ring, that his willpower and discipline is what makes him the hero more so than his powers.  In Fatality's case it is even less relevant as her breasts have almost nothing to do with her being a hero (though I suppose they help her being a featured hero.)  Not a big deal, but maybe the artist should let her mouth do the talking from now on?
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#1 Posted by Renchamp (7849 posts) - - Show Bio

This is made even more odd by the fact that the man they keep showing says nothing and carries around a lit smoking pipe. This is simply poor art direction that is servicing fanboys. Show the whole body of a mute person but just the "goods" on the focus character of the scene. I like boobs as much as the next man, but I also like my boobs to make sense. They are so much more appealing with context.

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#2 Posted by Video_Martian (5650 posts) - - Show Bio

Huh, that panel above really does look like her boobs are talking :P

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#3 Posted by zackattack529 (1408 posts) - - Show Bio

hahaha wow people really take small things like this (no pun intended) seriously? theyre just comic books!? lol its not like you wont see fatalitys breast anyway, her suit is unzipped always!?

like idk how people can just say.."ohh cool art, ohh look at her boobs lol..good read" then goo back to your lives but nope..you guys see something that you cn complain about then blog about it. cause its not liek you people have lives to think about or anything like that. so my bad

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#4 Posted by Kallarkz (3388 posts) - - Show Bio

@zackattack529 said:

hahaha wow people really take small things like this (no pun intended) seriously? theyre just comic books!? lol its not like you wont see fatalitys breast anyway, her suit is unzipped always!?

like idk how people can just say.."ohh cool art, ohh look at her boobs lol..good read" then goo back to your lives but nope..you guys see something that you cn complain about then blog about it. cause its not liek you people have lives to think about or anything like that. so my bad

What does not having a life mean to you? If critical thinking about comic book imagery is qualification of being devoid of life in your opinion I strongly suggest that you rethink your stance.

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#5 Posted by zackattack529 (1408 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kallarkz:

hahah that was just an insult?

you see this is my point! why even critical think of comic books or even small things such as some insult i said at ALL? lol i mean you can try using your big words and try to defend your point, but the real point is: critical thinking of stupid things?

i mean isnt there better things to critical think about? i just dont see how people can take something like breast in a comic, then come up with something like this and NOT get paid for it.. as if they have so much time on their hands to do so. i mean now that i think of it..idk why i even insult people like you at all...you guys fail at your own game hahaha

i also love the fact that you went straight to my comment to try and see if you can play hero beat me (the troll) tough luck kid :)

i love my life..requires no critical thinking at all. i already have an awesome GF, a good job, great friends, live in an awesome city, and i squeeze time to read some comics to enjoy. NOT to go all BIll Oriely on a panel in the issue. and then hopefully see if i can talk some sense into people who say hurtful things. xp

bye bye now x)

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#6 Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus (6958 posts) - - Show Bio

Makes me miss the days when she really let her rage and spear do the talking, like here. Poor Kyle...

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#7 Edited by RazzaTazz (11948 posts) - - Show Bio
@zackattack529 : All right junior, back away from the keyboard, I think I heard your mom say it is your bedtime.  
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#8 Posted by Nerx (15350 posts) - - Show Bio

@RazzaTazz: Why is this a problem exactly?

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#9 Edited by BatteredArmor (6234 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nerx said:

@RazzaTazz: Why is this a problem exactly?

kinda my sentiments too, it's not even that noticeable in pic one, I'm a teenage boy and didn't notice it for almost a minute.....

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#10 Posted by Nerx (15350 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor: The other dude besides GL and Fatal is dressed like a male stripper and that's not as bad a girl showing cleavage?

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#11 Posted by the_stegman (40312 posts) - - Show Bio


@Nerx said:

@RazzaTazz: Why is this a problem exactly?

kinda my sentiments too, it's not even that noticeable in pic one, I'm a teenage boy and didn't notice it for almost a minute.....

This  
honestly i've seen much worse in comics, when I first read it I didn't even pay attention to her body, but rather her words, it's not a big deal to me.
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#12 Posted by hydrabob--defunct (14985 posts) - - Show Bio

Surprised this hasn't been locked yet.....

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#13 Posted by BatteredArmor (6234 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nerx: Yeah I always find it funny how when in conversations like this albeit less specific than this no one ever mentions how Martian Manhunter walked around with nothing but x straps and underwear for years. No matter the context there never seems to be any focus on how stuff like this is often a two way street in comics

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#14 Posted by primepower53 (6064 posts) - - Show Bio

awwww I thought this would be about something else... =P=P=P=P=P=P=P=P=P=P=P=P

In all seriousness, great blog! :D

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#15 Posted by Nerx (15350 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor: Or hey its Dr.Manhattan, a nudist male superheroes with epic proportions and a massive frankenfurter but when a lady is scantily clad and has big hooters people go apesh!t... dude wtf?

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#16 Edited by Kallarkz (3388 posts) - - Show Bio

@zackattack529 said:

@Kallarkz:

hahah that was just an insult?

you see this is my point! why even critical think of comic books or even small things such as some insult i said at ALL? lol i mean you can try using your big words and try to defend your point, but the real point is: critical thinking of stupid things?

i mean isnt there better things to critical think about? i just dont see how people can take something like breast in a comic, then come up with something like this and NOT get paid for it.. as if they have so much time on their hands to do so. i mean now that i think of it..idk why i even insult people like you at all...you guys fail at your own game hahaha

i also love the fact that you went straight to my comment to try and see if you can play hero beat me (the troll) tough luck kid :)

i love my life..requires no critical thinking at all. i already have an awesome GF, a good job, great friends, live in an awesome city, and i squeeze time to read some comics to enjoy. NOT to go all BIll Oriely on a panel in the issue. and then hopefully see if i can talk some sense into people who say hurtful things. xp

bye bye now x)

Well this is a forum. Why can it not be discussed?

Your entire argument is based upon "You shouldn't care about this". You are not discussing the actual problem at hand rather you are simply showing annoyance that people are interested in talking about it.

Be the hero? Insults? Hurtful things?

You are seeing things that do not exist.

Calm it down.

P.S Although I am glad that you are living a life with your girlfriend and friends and a job (not really uncommon) I never asked you for those details.

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#17 Edited by BatteredArmor (6234 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nerx: To be fare If I remember my Watchmen right I don't remember Dr. Manhattan purchasing his cosmic rod in xl size.

My basic point about this thread, is that while yes there is objectification in comics, notably of both men and women, and while it happens to women much more it has gotten allot better, as Martian Manhunter get's a black suit under his iconic red x more female characters get more complete costume. While some things do need attention drawn to them and big things will draw attention to themselves ;) you only hurt your own point when you bring attention to the very insignificant aspects of the problem like this. I know I wouldn't have been thinking about Fatality's star sapphires right now had you not brought this to my attention.

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#18 Posted by SC (18159 posts) - - Show Bio
@Nerx said:

@RazzaTazz: Why is this a problem exactly?

 
Why does something have to be a problem to be pointed out or addressed? In fact where are the giant glowing neon letters spelling problem in the blog? If anything it addresses itself, " this is not really a big deal" "something odd" and so on, and then the blog actually highlights why this is odd and why its very easy to criticize such a panel/page. (but essentially this reduces her to only a symbol (a sex symbol)  
 
No?  
 
@Nerx said:

@BlackArmor: The other dude besides GL and Fatal is dressed like a male stripper and that's not as bad a girl showing cleavage?

 
Well see here your just applying one context? Which is a very valid thing to do? Sort of like saying that there are male strippers in reality and female strippers and so we have perfect gender equality. Except obviously my example is a massive oversimplification, and that's just not how it works. Here I would say your assuming this thread is about gender depiction generally? Where as to me, its clearly focusing on a context, that of posing and emphasizing rather than dress. Its not about which is worse or not, its just pointing out that you don't have a male sexual organ pressed towards the viewers face with their head cropped off. It might not be a big deal to guys or girls who don't think about such things with the bigger brain, but such "subtle" differences actually can matter to others for a ton of reasons other than Oh noez I do not liek and ooh yey giz me the money shotz.  
 
 
@BlackArmor said:

@Nerx: Yeah I always find it funny how when in conversations like this albeit less specific than this no one ever mentions how Martian Manhunter walked around with nothing but x straps and underwear for years. No matter the context there never seems to be any focus on how stuff like this is often a two way street in comics

 
That is pretty funny, the funniest thing for me personally, is when conversations like these people start equating oversimplified understandings of gender/sexuality and equate male dress wear to female dress wear when a person is talking posing and posturing. Then goes on to talk about context and two way streets instead of highways and intersections and oh wait? We have covered al this before? Should I copy and paste my last argument over for you? =p  
 
 
 
So I do hope I made sense my peeps? Just because someone is addressing gender depiction in comics doesn't mean they are trying to kill off the male population and replace Green Lantern books with books about Space Nuns and Chastity Belts. You rarely find comics with panels with focusing on male groins, butts, or cracks,  and yes, you could say you can find shots of males chests, but biologically and culturally as a general whole we do see males and females differently and males chests aren't actually sex organs and if you need proof of this again, check out the sales of Male Tata's: Jiggly Humps Volume 5 compared to Female Tata's: Jiggly Humps Volume 5. Again, its almost like there are people who exploit sex and one gender more than the other. 
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#19 Posted by danhimself (21433 posts) - - Show Bio

it is odd that they decided to move the focus down to her breasts like that and I even thought that when I was reading the book the first time....but they're just boobs....sure I like them but I never understood why it was ok for tv shows to show men with their shirts off but it's not ok to show women with their shirts off....they're pretty much the same thing but because men are more vocal over their love for the opposite genders checticles it became a no no for them to be exposed....you can't tell me that women don't have a thing for physically fit bare chested guys...I've seen my mom's romance novel covers and I know that you girls like that stuff...so why can't I read a book with a physically fit bare chested woman on the cover without being labeled a "perv"

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#20 Posted by Nerx (15350 posts) - - Show Bio

@SC:

Why does something have to be a problem to be pointed out or addressed? (if it is not a problem then there is no reason for it to be an alarming issue ) In fact where are the giant glowing neon letters spelling problem in the blog? If anything it addresses itself, " this is not really a big deal" "something odd" and so on, and then the blog actually highlights why this is odd and why its very easy to criticize such a panel/page. (but essentially this reduces her to only a symbol (a sex symbol, what about mister stripper next to her? males too can be victims to sex symbolization)
No? No
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#21 Posted by Nerx (15350 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor: Then again males have been done earlier than that, check out robin's old costume dude

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#22 Posted by SC (18159 posts) - - Show Bio
@zackattack529 said:

hahaha wow people really take small things like this (no pun intended) seriously? theyre just comic books!? lol its not like you wont see fatalitys breast anyway, her suit is unzipped always!?

like idk how people can just say.."ohh cool art, ohh look at her boobs lol..good read" then goo back to your lives but nope..you guys see something that you cn complain about then blog about it. cause its not liek you people have lives to think about or anything like that. so my bad

 
Hang on... I change my mind. This observation and argument is too compelling. Wait comic books? Are you sure? Sometimes when I imagine really really hard I can like pretend they are real people? If they are real I might get to see Fatality's breasts? if I really really wish hard enough? Oh please let my wishez comes true? 
 
I agree though, haha **snort** haha idk, how people can see a blog and can type "ohh big words, addressing a comic book, ohh look at her boobz lol.. hard to read and made me doubt my sexuality, and ohh... confused me, intellectually and sexually ohh... what day is it ohh... I wonder why I can't lick my elbow... ohh its like magic "  then goo back to your lives but nope, yousee stuff, and then complain and whine and just throw down random opinions dat makes no sense and seem liek some sort of repressed ovely defensive, I don't understand just lulz comments in blogs.  cause its not liek you people have lives to think about or anything like that. so my bad rightz?  
  
Noz for da truthz 
 
i love my life..requires no thinking at all. i already have an 72 GF, and 15 BF's and 10... I can't tellz their genderz, a good job as an astronaut and model and President, billion great friends liek Chris brown, Snoop dogg, Conan the Brobarian, Superman, Batman, Miley Cyrus, Fatality, Stephen Hawkings, live in an awesome city that floats and goes under water, and i squeeze time to read some comics to enjoy, when I am not saving lives, or teaching blind orphans how to read braillezian. NOT to go all BIll Oriely on a panel in the issue. and then hopefully see if i can talk some sense into people who say hurtful things. Lulz XP XP :O ;) *(H>K)-+
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#23 Posted by danhimself (21433 posts) - - Show Bio

@SC: Chris Brown is a great friend?

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#24 Posted by RazzaTazz (11948 posts) - - Show Bio
@Nerx: Is it a problem?  Did I say that it was?  I even wrote in the original entry that it is not really such a big deal.  You must be pretty sensitive about the supposed reverse sexism to be so bothered by this.  Last month I did another blog on Neves' fascination with swords in Demon Knights.  Nobody commented that I was pushing a pro-sword anti-shield agenda for that one, but as soon as the male ego can get injured I guess it does (though to be honest sword=phallic, you should go post on that one as well and tell me about how men are persecuted)
 
@hydrabob said:

Surprised this hasn't been locked yet.....

Why would this get locked?  I am talking about comic art and never used any obscene language.   
 
@primepower53: My apologies, I guess the title might have been misleading, buyer beware though :P
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#25 Posted by BatteredArmor (6234 posts) - - Show Bio

@SC said:

@Nerx said:

@RazzaTazz: Why is this a problem exactly?


Why does something have to be a problem to be pointed out or addressed? In fact where are the giant glowing neon letters spelling problem in the blog? If anything it addresses itself, " this is not really a big deal" "something odd" and so on, and then the blog actually highlights why this is odd and why its very easy to criticize such a panel/page. (but essentially this reduces her to only a symbol (a sex symbol)

No?

The entire second paragraph is Razz Tazz pointing out problems she has with it and the thesis sentence (of p2) uses the word "objectification" I think it's a little more than implied that were supposed to perceive this as a problem. despite saying it's not a big deal Razz Tazz still bothers to point out her issues with it so even if she claims it to be minor this is clearly supposed to be a problem. we simply don't see why.

@SC said:

@Nerx said:

@BlackArmor: The other dude besides GL and Fatal is dressed like a male stripper and that's not as bad a girl showing cleavage?


Well see here your just applying one context? Which is a very valid thing to do? Sort of like saying that there are male strippers in reality and female strippers and so we have perfect gender equality. Except obviously my example is a massive oversimplification, and that's just not how it works. Here I would say your assuming this thread is about gender depiction generally? Where as to me, its clearly focusing on a context, that of posing and emphasizing rather than dress. Its not about which is worse or not, its just pointing out that you don't have a male sexual organ pressed towards the viewers face with their head cropped off. It might not be a big deal to guys or girls who don't think about such things with the bigger brain, but such "subtle" differences actually can matter to others for a ton of reasons other than Oh noez I do not liek and ooh yey giz me the money shotz.

The topic seems to be female objectification so I would say this is about gender depiction. The context is fairly understated unless your looking for it, even two teenage boys have testified to not even noticing until it was pointed out

I have to finish 1984 by tommorow so I don't have time for the usual hour long argument I'm just going to sum up my point with "Not a big deal it wouldn't get much attention if you don't draw it there"

@Nerx:

Ha! classic.....also pedo bear

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#26 Posted by Nerx (15350 posts) - - Show Bio

@RazzaTazz: No problem sistah, just plain asking

@BlackArmor:

Change pedo with pederast (damn NAMBLA) and you are on the right track

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#27 Posted by SamRevlon (138 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonderful blog RazzaTazz – I haven’t had the chance to get caught up with all the new 52’s just yet, but I can see where you’re coming from. I spent two minutes laughing at some of those who honestly wrote stating they didn’t notice them. I’m a woman and I can totally tell tits were in my face in those panels, but then again it could just be my updated prescription.

@Kallarkz said:

Well this is a forum. Why can it not be discussed?

Your entire argument is based upon "You shouldn't care about this". You are not discussing the actual problem at hand rather you are simply showing annoyance that people are interested in talking about it.

I completely agree with your stand – this is a forum and people should be entitled to talk about stuff / debate it to their hearts content no matter how others might see this as trivial or overdone. It can be so frustrating when user’s online shut out conversations like these simply because they don’t want to deal with it or have already made a resolved decision. I don’t know where that puts many others and half the time it can feel as if you’re just supposed to accept it and say nothing. So thank you for getting out the words perfectly! : )

Back to Fatality though, I can’t help but feel an extreme amount of disappointment as a fan seeing this. I loved her look – even the costume, she’s a beautiful woman and a strong black character at that. To see her breast drawn in 2012 just shoved against the panel like that, it just makes me sigh and shake my head, knowing the intent is nothing more than to create fan-service…

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#28 Posted by SC (18159 posts) - - Show Bio
@Nerx said:

@SC:

Why does something have to be a problem to be pointed out or addressed? (if it is not a problem then there is no reason for it to be an alarming issue ) In fact where are the giant glowing neon letters spelling problem in the blog? If anything it addresses itself, " this is not really a big deal" "something odd" and so on, and then the blog actually highlights why this is odd and why its very easy to criticize such a panel/page. (but essentially this reduces her to only a symbol (a sex symbol, what about mister stripper next to her? males too can be victims to sex symbolization)
No? No
 
Something has to be alarming for you in order for it be a problem? Ah okay, well that's the disconnect right there? Your idea of what a problem is, differs to the dictionaries. The two aren't mutually bonded, inherently tied to each other, so on and so on.  Then again, where in this blog or title are we alerted to this alarming crisis? Again the blog itself refers to the observation as not really a big deal? In fact the only one that seems to think it is a big deal and a problem and an alarming issue is you or your presumption? Fair enough, but accurate in this context?
 
Who said male strippers can't be victimized? Male strippers can be even more victimized than females, in that they usually get paid less, are required to do more, and so on, and so shock of horrors the more you actually think, address, and apply the correct context the more accuracy and truth you will come across? Then again the fact that females get paid more to strip is an issue as it makes that job something that a person might have to consider more just for the money even if they actually really, really don't want to do that job. Which isn't nice for any person really. So its almost like you presume that if someone addresses or highlights or criticizes an instance of inconsistent gender depiction, they only do it for one gender? Which is a somewhat flawed attitude in my opinion? Not saying its yours, though to be clear, or that my presumption is correct. 
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#29 Posted by Superguy0009e (2404 posts) - - Show Bio

what they need to do is just have a picture of someone naked on the cover, that way, all tension about sex is gone and just right out in the open

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#30 Posted by zackattack529 (1408 posts) - - Show Bio

@SC said:

@zackattack529 said:

hahaha wow people really take small things like this (no pun intended) seriously? theyre just comic books!? lol its not like you wont see fatalitys breast anyway, her suit is unzipped always!?

like idk how people can just say.."ohh cool art, ohh look at her boobs lol..good read" then goo back to your lives but nope..you guys see something that you cn complain about then blog about it. cause its not liek you people have lives to think about or anything like that. so my bad


Hang on... I change my mind. This observation and argument is too compelling. Wait comic books? Are you sure? Sometimes when I imagine really really hard I can like pretend they are real people? If they are real I might get to see Fatality's breasts? if I really really wish hard enough? Oh please let my wishez comes true?

I agree though, haha **snort** haha idk, how people can see a blog and can type "ohh big words, addressing a comic book, ohh look at her boobz lol.. hard to read and made me doubt my sexuality, and ohh... confused me, intellectually and sexually ohh... what day is it ohh... I wonder why I can't lick my elbow... ohh its like magic " then goo back to your lives but nope, yousee stuff, and then complain and whine and just throw down random opinions dat makes no sense and seem liek some sort of repressed ovely defensive, I don't understand just lulz comments in blogs. cause its not liek you people have lives to think about or anything like that. so my bad rightz?

Noz for da truthz

i love my life..requires no thinking at all. i already have an 72 GF, and 15 BF's and 10... I can't tellz their genderz, a good job as an astronaut and model and President, billion great friends liek Chris brown, Snoop dogg, Conan the Brobarian, Superman, Batman, Miley Cyrus, Fatality, Stephen Hawkings, live in an awesome city that floats and goes under water, and i squeeze time to read some comics to enjoy, when I am not saving lives, or teaching blind orphans how to read braillezian. NOT to go all BIll Oriely on a panel in the issue. and then hopefully see if i can talk some sense into people who say hurtful things. Lulz XP XP :O ;) *(H>K)-+

lmao

that'll do pig,...that'll do..

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#31 Posted by BatteredArmor (6234 posts) - - Show Bio

@Superguy0009e said:

what they need to do is just have a picture of someone naked on the cover, that way, all tension about sex is gone and just right out in the open

*emails DC idea*

@lykopis said:

@BlackArmor: Its important enough for you to point out its NOT important. Interesting. And yeah - heh heh pedo-bear.....

I consider SC's comments to be worth replying too that's when I said it's not worth noticing, in response to her comments not when I first saw the thread. And yes pedo bear is one of the greatest memes ever

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#32 Posted by Nerx (15350 posts) - - Show Bio

@SC:

Something has to be alarming for you in order for it be a problem? Ah okay, well that's the disconnect right there? Your idea of what a problem is, differs to the dictionaries (I will define it as similar to pain, where the body immediately reacts and alarms the brain of the danger). The two aren't mutually bonded, inherently tied to each other, so on and so on. Then again, where in this blog or title are we alerted to this alarming crisis? Again the blog itself refers to the observation as not really a big deal? In fact the only one that seems to think it is a big deal and a problem and an alarming issue is you or your presumption? Fair enough, but accurate in this context?
Who said male strippers can't be victimized (Nobody actually, and with homophobia in the air they got it worse than girls sometimes)? Male strippers can be even more victimized than females, in that they usually get paid less, are required to do more, and so on, and so shock of horrors the more you actually think, address, and apply the correct context the more accuracy and truth you will come across? Then again the fact that females get paid more to strip is an issue as it makes that job something that a person might have to consider more just for the money even if they actually really, really don't want to do that job. Which isn't nice for any person really. So its almost like you presume that if someone addresses or highlights or criticizes an instance of inconsistent gender depiction, they only do it for one gender? Which is a somewhat flawed attitude in my opinion? Not saying its yours, though to be clear, or that my presumption is correct.
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#33 Edited by B'Town (2369 posts) - - Show Bio

@SamRevlon: Well said.

And Razz, SC & lykopis thank you for keeping the conversation going.

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#34 Posted by TheElusiveNewReader (53 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nerx: Because Men were not treated as property and status symbols for most of human history and their looks and ability to produce children were not the only merit they had in society? I'm not an over sensitive femi-nazi but thats not a good argument. Let me put it this way no one ever bought a comic because of Superman's abs but I'm willing to bet a few comic's were sold because of Power Girls boob window....

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#35 Posted by Nerx (15350 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheElusiveNewReader: Nope brah/sistah males too have been portrayed in this view waay before comics. Just look at the symbolisms of phalluses and worship.

but back then big d!cks are funny

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#36 Posted by SC (18159 posts) - - Show Bio
@danhimself said:

@SC: Chris Brown is a great friend?

 
He hits me, but it is just a sign that he cares about me. Its not like he forces me to fight his doggs liek my other friend Michale Vick who made me fight my other friend Snopp Dogg.  
 
 
 
@BlackArmor said:

The entire second paragraph is Razz Tazz pointing out problems she has with it and the thesis sentence (of p2) uses the word "objectification" I think it's a little more than implied that were supposed to perceive this as a problem. despite saying it's not a big deal Razz Tazz still bothers to point out her issues with it so even if she claims it to be minor this is clearly supposed to be a problem. we simply don't see why.

 
You presume problems as opposed to observations no? Could it just be that you are cynical and prone to defensiveness whenever you see people address gender in comics? Like the other thread we discussed, you were the one who gave objectification a negative connotation. Despite the fact that comics are objects that believe it or not objectify the things inside them inherently. Rather the contents go on to try and and reflect what we can relate to, so objectification is not a four letter word, context applies. This small clarification therefore renders what is really just your presumption as a presumption rather than any implication. Then again what if it is a problem? Problems have sizes. How about presumptions? That's a problem?  
 
Then you dismiss the observations by personalizing the issue? You do realize that people can make objective observations on things yes? Not everyone is out to express purely subjective opinions yes?  
 
So I question your use of the word clearly. I think you merely aren't grasping the OP at all? Especially if you don't see the section expressing the pitfalls of the observation? Except it seems that you do grasp it to criticize it because men are treated similar? So its like you answer an answer with a question? Sort of as if I were to say your post lacks credibility because you fail to mention how Beta Ray Bill is depicted unfairly as well?  
 
 
@BlackArmor said:

The topic seems to be female objectification so I would say this is about gender depiction. The context is fairly understated unless your looking for it, even two teenage boys have testified to not even noticing until it was pointed out

I have to finish 1984 by tommorow so I don't have time for the usual hour long argument I'm just going to sum up my point with "Not a big deal it wouldn't get much attention if you don't draw it there"

 
Of course its about gender depiction, but its a broad and complicated subject, and if people are comparing clothes to posing, then no, the context is not understood, and that makes sense that two teenage boys wouldn't notice because they are use to it, that's the point. So it sounds like a lot of contexts are being "clearly" misunderstood.  
 
Oh my, it almost sounds like you have a problem with time itself =p  
 
I'll sum up my point with "Some people seem to get mighty defensive when people make simple observations about gender in comics and then proceed to lump in any observations, and criticisms and points, and notes about it into some big oversimplified argument lacking context, thought and consideration and then they say - - but but but Martian Manhunter walks around in underpants and so its equal, oh oh and I prefer to not notice such things and I think you should do the same, because I have magical jellybeans and so all should obey me and my way of thinking, since I like to live in a magical lolli pop palace where evils like observations, and thinking, and consideration are exiled like fruit and vegetables, and only praise and compliments are allowed"  
 
Good luck with 1984 as well and always enjoy talking even if we don't agree **smile**
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#37 Posted by Deranged Midget (18346 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr.obvious said:

Huh, that panel above really does look like her boobs are talking :P

LOL

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#38 Posted by SC (18159 posts) - - Show Bio
@Nerx said:

@SC:

 (I will define it as similar to pain, where the body immediately reacts and alarms the brain of the danger). T
(Nobody actually, and with homophobia in the air they got it worse than girls sometimes)?
 
That's a very valid and fair definition, simply though it isn't the only one. Which is the point no? You get that vibe from this blog that it is asking you to feel pain?  
 
That's an excellent point. Not just that but male victims of violence and sexual abuse are less likely to report it. Except knowing this, and mentioning it doesn't dismiss or diminish any sort of criticism, observations, or points on behalf of female depictions. Which is why I addressed you and other posters. 
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#39 Posted by jrock85 (2882 posts) - - Show Bio

I was actually so into the story that I didn't even notice those panels...HOLY CRAP!!! I didn't notice boobs!!!

I'm going to see a doctor first thing tomorrow morning.

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#40 Posted by rogue_mar1e (20181 posts) - - Show Bio

In case no one has realized yet, sexualizing characters is kind of the main selling point of the reboot.

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#41 Posted by RazzaTazz (11948 posts) - - Show Bio
@jrock85: They have pills for that :P 
 
@rogue_mar1e: Yes good point
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#42 Posted by jrock85 (2882 posts) - - Show Bio

@RazzaTazz: LOL, Pills that will help me notice all boobs?

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#43 Posted by RazzaTazz (11948 posts) - - Show Bio
@jrock85: Talk to your family physician to find out if its right for you
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#44 Posted by Hawkeye446 (3975 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis said:

@zackattack529:

That was helpful. Thank you.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA.

omg....

Dying.

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#45 Posted by CATPANEXE (9505 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't mind sex appeal in comics. It's hardly new, and I fail to see when it's fronting to be anything other than it is, which is appealing sexually to whichever group it applies, and or presenting some readers with the reality escape into a body they personally wished they had. That said, there's an appropriate book, time and place for sex appeal, in other words tact should be in practice. This is hardly tactful however nor well placed. The artist should have more respect for themselves and their work, and the readers intelligence. Noting the mention of Dr.Manhattan here and a double standard as well? Actually, people did freak about that, massively, here and everywhere, and the same notion reverberated when the film was released and new readers where drawn to the comics. In fact, I cannot say that I have yet to see an end to the ordeals made over Dr.Manhattan's, *cough* " Blue Meanie ". So in comparison? RazzaTazz's down note towards what's displayed in these Green Lantern issues is warranted, and outside that add the careless art factor as well, which any comic reader should have issue with in anything, as they would crappy writing. Otherwise, it seems a little strained in here today, so here's a picture filled with warmth (and tea cup filled with kitten of course). ^_^

No Caption Provided
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#46 Posted by jrock85 (2882 posts) - - Show Bio

@RazzaTazz said:

@jrock85: Talk to your family physician to find out if its right for you

I don't need his opinion! I want those pills NOW!

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#47 Posted by MajinBlackheart (9611 posts) - - Show Bio

To be honest, I didn't even notice this until it was pointed out to me. I use my peripheral to see whose talking unless it's an action sequence.

But there is a simple solution to this since it's a GL book. An alien GL - that's all boobs! That way, the target audience can get their boob fulfillment, and Fatality can still be sexualized - but at least with her head in panel.

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#48 Posted by Hawkeye446 (3975 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor said:

@Nerx said:

@RazzaTazz: Why is this a problem exactly?

kinda my sentiments too, it's not even that noticeable in pic one, I'm a teenage boy and didn't notice it for almost a minute.....

So am I, and that means absolutely nothing. Maybe you have a tendency to not look at the art well. Maybe you were distracted. Maybe you couldn't recognise what they were?

Whatever the problem, being a teenage boy doesn't mean you are more adapt to seeing breasts in comics.

@Nerx said:

@BlackArmor: The other dude besides GL and Fatal is dressed like a male stripper and that's not as bad a girl showing cleavage?

You may notice that Fatality's costume is fairly revealing in general as well. That isn't the problem. It would be the same as if Indigo-1 (the "male stripper" you mentioned) had a panel simply with his crotch and a speech bubble.

THAT is the same. No-one is talking about her having breasts in a panel, just the fact that they were the sole focus... Twice...

@Nerx said:

@BlackArmor: Or hey its Dr.Manhattan, a nudist male superheroes with epic proportions and a massive frankenfurter but when a lady is scantily clad and has big hooters people go apesh!t... dude wtf?

That was written years and years ago. And guess what, there probably was some shocked faces then. However his choice of clothing made sense, at least to me. He was so beyond humans that clothes weren't even necessary. I could elaborate more but that is putting it simply.

However, there was no context for Fatality's breasts taking centre stage.

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#49 Posted by Hawkeye446 (3975 posts) - - Show Bio

@Superguy0009e said:

what they need to do is just have a picture of someone naked on the cover, that way, all tension about sex is gone and just right out in the open

Interesting suggestion. Not quite sure how that would get rid of the tension though. Would this character be male or female? Because either way it would probably make the situation worse depending on whether there was context there or not.

Not to mention that if they were stark naked they wouldn't actually be allowed to let it "all out in the open" as I believe naked imagery in stores is at least frowned upon if not illegal.

There is this though:

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#50 Edited by Nerx (15350 posts) - - Show Bio

@SC:

That's a very valid and fair definition, simply though it isn't the only one. Which is the point no? You get that vibe from this blog that it is asking you to feel pain? (nope but that is my definition of a problem, because they are reactive)
That's an excellent point. Not just that but male victims of violence and sexual abuse are less likely to report it. Except knowing this, and mentioning it doesn't dismiss or diminish any sort of criticism, observations, or points on behalf of female depictions. Which is why I addressed you and other posters.

@Hawkeye446:

That was written years and years ago. And guess what, there probably was some shocked faces then. However his choice of clothing made sense, at least to me. He was so beyond humans that clothes weren't even necessary. I could elaborate more but that is putting it simply.
However, there was no context for Fatality's breasts taking centre stage. (that has been done soo many time before dude)

I mean lookit dat ass :D

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