I'm unsure if she actually killed the man. I read an interview with one of the writers who said she didn't necessarily kill the man but she did irrevocably mind fry him, which makes sense, I suppose. Though the difference between murdering someone and leaving them as a vegetable is minor.

@theTimeStreamer: @Timandm: Both of you should take a break from at least commenting to each other.

@EmmaGraceFrost said:

omg im so angry what about wanda look what she did! no one arrested her!

Apparently killing Mutants is okay in the Marvel U lol

@Gambler: Well the government did fund giant robots designed for the sole purposes of tracking down and murdering mutants so that shouldn't be all that surprising.

@joshmightbe said:

@Gambler: Well the government did fund giant robots designed for the sole purposes of tracking down and murdering mutants so that shouldn't be all that surprising.

HA! Touche :)

@Gambler said:

@theTimeStreamer: @Timandm: Both of you should take a break from at least commenting to each other.

@EmmaGraceFrost said:

omg im so angry what about wanda look what she did! no one arrested her!

Apparently killing Mutants is okay in the Marvel U lol

Well, it absolutely seems that way, doesn't it?

- Sentinels, funded by the governement for the purpose of killing mutants...

- A busload of children at a mutant school are killed via missile attack, and how does the government respond? By sending Ms. Marvel in to ask the mutants to join the initiative... No investigation into the attack, no arrests made, nothing...

- Wanda goes a little crazy and kills hundreds or thousands of mutants, and destroys the lives of millions and.... nada...

In the end I do not think she will be put in jail because I think most of the blame is going to fall on Cyclops. I don't think Emma enslaved anyone but I do think the she enthralled the mutants on Utopia as the darker implused of the Phoenix began to influence her more and with Emma the darker impluses are not too far from the emotional surface to begin with. Also as others have mentioned Ben Grimm was never held accountable when when he was possessed by the Asgardian Hammer. I know this does not get mentioned in comics much but when the Avengers Tower was knocked down how man people do you think died, far more than Emma did under the influence of the Phoenix Force because as far as I can tell she hasent killed anyone. Ben Grimm got a pass for his actions will X-Men under the influence of the Phoenix Force, that remains to be seen.

@Timandm: Cyclops blasted Cap first :/

@lorex: The Phoenix doesn't make you do anything that isn't in your mind in the first place, without a human host it has no emotion or morality so its just removing the characters usual inhibitions like getting high, where Ben was possessed by a naturally malicious entity that took full control and made him do things he would never consider doing. Also given Emma's past as a villain it'd be more difficult for the public to see her as totally innocent in this regardless of what the actual causes are.

@Oscars94 said:

@Timandm: Cyclops blasted Cap first :/

True. Cyclops blasted Cap... AFTER telling him to leave... I believe his exact words were something like, "Get the hell off my island." That meant, "Leave now."

So, rather than leaving, as he was told to do, what did Cap do? He told Scott that he "Wasn't asking." Translation - I am not 'asking' you to give me Hope Summers, I am telling you to. I AM taking her with me, whether or not you give me permission, and whether or not she wants to go."

Captain America was in a country where he had no legal authority whatsoever. He was in Utopia. In Utopia, Scott is the authority. Cap threatened to take Hope, and Scott kicked him off the island... I see nothing wrong with that.

If someone with no legal authority came to my door and said, "Give me your daughter; I'm not asking!" Well, I'd blast them off my front lawn if I had eye-beams like Scott.

@lorex said:

In the end I do not think she will be put in jail because I think most of the blame is going to fall on Cyclops. I don't think Emma enslaved anyone but I do think the she enthralled the mutants on Utopia as the darker implused of the Phoenix began to influence her more and with Emma the darker impluses are not too far from the emotional surface to begin with. Also as others have mentioned Ben Grimm was never held accountable when when he was possessed by the Asgardian Hammer. I know this does not get mentioned in comics much but when the Avengers Tower was knocked down how man people do you think died, far more than Emma did under the influence of the Phoenix Force because as far as I can tell she hasent killed anyone. Ben Grimm got a pass for his actions will X-Men under the influence of the Phoenix Force, that remains to be seen.

Quoted for sheer truth...

@joshmightbe said:

@lorex: The Phoenix doesn't make you do anything that isn't in your mind in the first place, without a human host it has no emotion or morality so its just removing the characters usual inhibitions like getting high, where Ben was possessed by a naturally malicious entity that took full control and made him do things he would never consider doing. Also given Emma's past as a villain it'd be more difficult for the public to see her as totally innocent in this regardless of what the actual causes are.

You compare the effects of the Phoenix to a drug, in which case, one's inhibitions are lowered and they are more apt to act on their darker impulses; correct?

Let's say that's correct, because it may well be... Now, did Scott or Emma or Namor or Peter or Illyana willing imbibe the Phoenix? Or was the Phoenix forced on them by an act of Tony Stark? You see, NONE of the Phoenix Five chose the Phoenix, but rather, the Phoenix chose them.... And it was Tony Stark's fault... Now, taking your analogy of drug to its logical conclusion, are they responsible for their behavior since they were drugged by a Tony Stark accident?

Just as Ben Grimm did not choose to be possessed, the Phoenix Five did not choose to be imbued with the Phoenix.

@Timandm: While I do generally subscribe to the Blame Iron Man concept in general cause he's a douche this is honestly a situation that has been building up since the 70s AVX is honestly taking pretty much all the crap for all the creative problems that have been present in all the Phoenix story lines since The Dark Phoenix Saga ended. Its never been completely clearly defined the exact level of control the Phoenix has over hosts as it seems to vary depending on the need of the plot. In AVX its hard to tell how much at fault the 5 are.

@joshmightbe said:

@Timandm: While I do generally subscribe to the Blame Iron Man concept in general cause he's a douche this is honestly a situation that has been building up since the 70s AVX is honestly taking pretty much all the crap for all the creative problems that have been present in all the Phoenix story lines since The Dark Phoenix Saga ended. Its never been completely clearly defined the exact level of control the Phoenix has over hosts as it seems to vary depending on the need of the plot. In AVX its hard to tell how much at fault the 5 are.

Well, we agree on two things.

1: Tony Stark truly is a douche.... and I mean that in a bad way... Iron man used to be such a kewl character, but... Marvel has to change these characters so that they will have reasons to fight. For Marvel to have a Civil War, SOMEONE had to be an asshat... Tony fit the bill. Unfortunately, he's still an asshat.

2: The Phoenix thing has NEVER been well explained or clearly defined. Things keep getting retconned or given alternate explanations.

• Jean lost control to the Phoenix, but Rachel was able to control it for a very long time?
• Jean was killed (stabbed in the heart), and then died, but that only released the Phoenix potential in her and brought her back to life with even more power.
• The Phoenix is a force of destruction, and yet Rachel used it so well to save and heal... In fact, Hope (with only a small portion of the Phoenix) completely healed Cable...Who is mysteriously absent during all of this.,

Regarding how much the 5 are to blame... I like your analogy of them all being high... They are all under the influence.... They simply are not themselves... Whether you say they were MOSTLY themselves at first, or not, it still comes down to this... They were NOT themselves... And, in their favor, I think their transitions to ruthless dictators would have been slower, if the Avengers would have stopped attacking them.

@Timandm: I still say the Avengers may not have reacted how they did had Cable not tried to murder them about 4 issues before this started

@joshmightbe said:

@Timandm: I still say the Avengers may not have reacted how they did had Cable not tried to murder them about 4 issues before this started

You might be right... Nonetheless, what they did was wrong...

There was a movie a few years back called "Crash"... The movie is a collage of several different stories. In one of the storylines there is a cop (played by Matt Dillon) who becomes angry with an insurance agent who refused to help her father with his claims, when she well could have. All she had to do was sign a form and the cop's father could have gotten medical treatment for a badly swollen prostate. However, the insurance agent flat out refused to sign, because she didn't like Matt Damon and the way he behaved... So, this woman happened to be African American. The cop points out that his father used to own a business and hired many African Americans at a time when no one else would. However, affirmative action came along and his father's business went under as a result.. (not my words, that was in the movie).... Still, this woman refused.

Now, she was less than professional in her behavior and the cop goes off angry... PISSED even....

Now, we get to the point. Later, the cop pulls over a man whose wife was in the van with him. The couple were African American. The cop treats these people HORRIBLY. He even goes so far as to put his hands the wife's private parts.....

So, what's the point? Well, I could make the argument that if he hadn't been treated the way he had by the insurance agent, he would never have broken the law and treated that couple so badly.... But, as a cop, he must obey the law whether he's been treated properly or not... He can't let his personal feelings affect his professional judgement... If your "Earth's Mightiest Heroes" and you're trying to save the world, you have to do what is right, whether you like how others have acted towards you or not.

@Timandm: There is a difference here in that the cop wasn't dealing with a nuke here. Cable attacked them and then ran back to the X men who are currentlt harboring arguably one of the worst terrorists in the Marvel U in Magneto, Namor who's track record is questionable and several other former criminals making the situation much worse than it actually is. From an outsiders perspective the Xmen would be the last people the world would want in control of the Phoenix and honestly if the Avengers hadn't shown up, the government would've stepped in with a legion of Sentinels and triggered World War 3.

If you are not an avenger than you will be arrested or killed. That's just how it is with Marvel.

@joshmightbe said:

@Timandm: There is a difference here in that the cop wasn't dealing with a nuke here. Cable attacked them and then ran back to the X men who are currentlt harboring arguably one of the worst terrorists in the Marvel U in Magneto, Namor who's track record is questionable and several other former criminals making the situation much worse than it actually is. From an outsiders perspective the Xmen would be the last people the world would want in control of the Phoenix and honestly if the Avengers hadn't shown up, the government would've stepped in with a legion of Sentinels and triggered World War 3.

You're being a bit harsh in your characterization of certain things...

1: Cable didn't "run back" to the X-Men. Captain America turned him over to them, but he and Stark got to keep all the cool 31st century tech. So, that will make Stark even MORE of a douche bag soon.

2: The X-Men aren't "harboring" Magneto. Magneto was accused of terrorism. He was arrested, detained, and put on trial in a world court. He was found innocent. So, he's not a fugitive of any sort. Sure he's been power mad, an ass hat, and ruthless... But at the moment, he has no warrants out for his arrest and he is not on the lam in any way shape or form. So, it's not fair to say the X-Men are harboring a terrorist. Although, you are right when you say his track record is questionable... Personally, I can understand many of the things he's done. He was a child, held in a Nazi death camp. He suffered, was tortured, and watched his family and friends die.... This kind of thing affects a person.

3: I don't think they are "Harboring" any criminals. They have actually set up their own prison and are keeping prisoners in a prison. I think that's completely wrong, and I can't imagine how the U.S. government would just hand over U.S. citizens without a trial or any sort of expedition hearing, but that's just me... But I don't think any of the citizens of Utopia that are free, are criminals...

On a side note. The Sentinels.

With The Master of Magnetism as one of their members. And with Madison Jefferies, a Technopath with the ability of Psionic transmutation, AND with Doug Ramsey the master of all languages including math and programing, and Warlocke the alien Technarch, and Danger the A.I. life form with hard light powers.....

With all that going for them, I'm having a hard time fathoming how the sentinels could still pose a threat to the X-Men.

• Magneto can take them apart with a thought
• Polaris, Magneto's daughter, can do the same
• Doug Ramsey can reprogram the sentinels in a heartbeat. He and Warlocke defeated Warlocke's father that way back when Doug new to his powers...
• Madison Jefferies can RESHAPE (disassemble or re-purpose) a sentinel with a thought
• Danger is far far more advanced than any sentinel. She could hack into them and take control...
• Legion can rewrite all of reality..... Couldn't he simply erase a few sentinels? Sure, they had to make him struggle with fighting them during that attack on Utopia, but the guy can rewrite the universe... a few robots really shouldn't be a problem.

I thought she died too LOL.

no

@theTimeStreamer said:

@Timandm: you have too much time and too much hate. close the laptop and go for a walk. you cant see the difference between comic logic and reality. this is where i bow out and wish you do something else with your life.

It seems you're the one trying to save face as "the mature one" after losing the argument. First you start out attempting to be objective, then when Timandm presents more information than you do, you argue "it's just a comic", and "don't take it seriously". Your debate tactics are shameless.

@Timandm: You make a good point, good sir

There is so much grey area and people who have been taken over by certain evil entities (whether they thought they were in control or not). My opinion is if they are remorseful they should be put to work towards good. Fighting evil, rebuilding, etc. Example being Wanda, she seems remorseful and all and wants to help and has shown effort. Point being she is trying which is better than trying to jail her and contain her (God knows how much that would cost).

Either way Emma showing remorse is something I don't see in her character, but she will fight for mutant kind. Where it goes from there, I dunno. The whole being jailed part can't end well. Whether she argues that she was in control or not. SHe can cay she was not in her right mind and be put in jail or committed. I think Marvel will gloss over it.

I know some will argue that who will be the one to observe and make sure people like her don't loose control, I do not know. Its an idea but trying to contain people with these kind of powers and intellect in a max prison or something is just tiring to the mind. Wasn't there a max person riot or breakout in an Avenger prison right before this was anyway? I understand why Marvel just lets it go. It leads to this kind of forums either way.

@Timandm: @joshmightbe:

@god_spawn: i cant believe emma got caught ....now whos going to break scott out of jail???

and i think peter gets caught too.....so its up to magneto or magik to break them out

good thing magik is a teleporter

@HopesummersFORtheFUTURE: Peter is actually shown in a cave somewhere (probably the Savage Lands). He's got this macho beard, raggedy clothes, full head of hair and in human form. Idk if he loses his Jugg powers but it's possible he keeps them still. (I kind of hope he does) and I believe Magneto was with him too and they were talking with Storm.

And judging by Magik being on Scott's team with the Extinction team still active and a hidden mole in the Uncanny Avengers, it is possible Magik could break him and Emma out with Magneto's help or the mole helps.