Dyspo is faster than light and apparently , it's a big deal . Characters keep mentioning how how awesome that speed it . But weren't DBZ characters faster than light speed way back in DBZ ? Why is light speed even impressive now ?

Yes they were, Dyspo is a speedster type of character and there is no speed above light so they have no choice but to bring light speed.

No they mostly weren't, barely anyone of them had feats to make a halfway reasonable case for that.

FTL reactions and perceptions since Saiyan

FTL movement and combat in Buu saga

@trololololol: you do reason that his speed more was called maximum faster than light speed in the sub

Which isn't a direct translation

In Japanese a it was massively FTL basically but there's no direct translation from the Japanese word

No real proof they were FTL before DBS, unless you take dub mistranslations as valid.

On the other hand, their clear cut speed feats that don't rely on any degree of speculation or calc stacking all demonstrate slower than light movement.

this

No. And all this does is reinforce that fact.

Nope. It was only a fever dream at best with no amount of accurate evidence to reinforce it.

FTL Dragonball Z characters is mostly a product of the fans of the show feeling the characters should be at that level, then saying they are at that level to each other so many times that it became an ingrained truth about the franchise that was obvious to everyone. When faced with evidence to the contrary many refused to accept that evidence and went out of their way to invent "proof" of massively faster than light combat speed by grabbing hold of an outlier speed showing and scaling the living crap out of it while ignoring all the contrary evidence.

Dyspo is the first truly confirmed FTL character, not counting the Angels when traveling with their staffs. Personally, I think it's great. I love that Dyspo is a genuine speedster character. More characters with unique attributes and skillsets can only make the franchise better.

Agreed.

No, not by feats atleast.

Base rusty Gohan dodges point blank Jacos laser that hits something outside Earth in seconds.

There is many FTL Feats in the manga lol.

There precisely zero provable or calculable FTL feats in the manga previous to Super, and the same is true of the anime too.

It's not that the characters are not or were not FTL, it's that there was never any proof at all of FTL movement until at LEAST the U6&U7 tournament, and no concrete proof at all until the Tournament of Power.

Between @zoldycklogic and I we have managed to provide minimum provable speeds of Dyspo (no secret speed technique) of 10C, ToP Golden Frieza of 56C and UI Goku of 563C ('C' being the speed of light) using actual evidence from the anime based on the known speed of a laser beam of 1C.

I stress that these are the minimum provable speeds. Any other speed above them is pure speculation.

It's worth remembering however that since we are literally only just now seeing actual evidence and statements in the anime that these characters are hitting lightspeed, as well as having other characters not be able to see those movements, it needs to be acknowledged that the reason may be because these characters actually are only just reaching these speeds.

That HAS to be a possibility.

It's entirely up to anyone who reads or watches Dragonball what they think these characters speeds are, but having spent a good amount of time calculated various feats, there is certainly no evidence of Light Speed from not GoD's/Angels until at least the U6&U7 tournament in Dragonball Super. Once again, it doesn't mean they weren't, it means the calculable feat are not.
None of them.

Which was great that we got introduced to the Pride Troopers....only for the majority of them to be blown away by huge amounts of power. -_-

@wolfrazer:

Eh, there's still a good chance the show will do the painfully predictable thing and have Goku wish all the universes back at the end.

@metaljimmor: We'll see, still I am a little bit miffed it happened though.

@nemesisreloaded: There is multiple ftl feats in manga u are just ignorant lol.

King Kai being able to track FTL saiyan pods, but couldn't keep up with Goku and Frieza. That's enough evidence right there

They don’t have flight in the tournament, they were moving that fast on foot.

Imagine with flight.

Yea they were, pretty close to Relativistic speeds in Saiyan Saga up to slightly above Light Speed in later arcs. Not to mention Burter's exact translations "I am the fastest in the Universe." then Goku says "That makes you the second". The one where it says "I am the fastest being in the Universe" is from Viz and was slightly wrong hence corrected by Herms.

@metaljimmor: you can't wish back the universes that would go against Zeno's ruling.

@shenron007:

That's what I keep saying too, but it's still a popular theory of how the arc ends. Personally I think it'd cheapen the entire arc, but it's not something completely out of the ballpark for Dragonball either.

This is the disconnect I just recently encountered too. I often believed, just like many, that FTL was just a given in DB, especially given the context of many of these battles. I mean, Piccolo was able to destroy the moon all the way back in the Raditz saga, which is a half light speed feat alone. Given all the scaling since then, I just assumed that yeah, of course they were FTL. To put even more emphasis on this, Super Saiyan transformations I always assumed were straight across the board boosts in all categories. That just seemed natural, given all the fight structure works in Dragonball Z.

But recently, after going through so many calculations and feats and whatnot, it struck me that there is actually no concrete proof before DBS that characters have gone FTL.
Were characters moving faster than light? No way to prove or show this.
Super Saiyan transformations surely boost speed beyond the speed of light, right? Well, speed certainly does increase, but by how much? And it seems that strength is far more effected then speed. It doesn't appear to be a clear cut all around multiplier. Only Kaio Ken specifically states speed is increased in its form.
Piccolo destroys the moon at half the speed of light, so it's just a given they moved up from there right? Well, no feats support this. Not to mention ki speed is not the same as travel speed, which is certainly not the same as combat speed or striking speed.

It's not for lack of trying though. Many calculations have been done to pin down the speeds of characters at certain points and it's certainly possible they've already passed that point. The problem is proving it. Context wise? It's almost guaranteed. But we need evidence and hopefully soon enough it'll be found. I have a few ideas myself that I'm exploring.

@nemesisreloaded:

There precisely zero provable or calculable FTL feats in the manga previous to Super, and the same is true of the anime too.

maybe if you botherd to read some you would be ashemed of your own post.

Lets just say, this is where you try and prove it, then don't because you can't without making massive assumptions or invention. Then I explain all the various reasons why those examples are not actually FTL, you disagree anyway and we've all wasted our time. Lets just pretend that happened and move on.

He was also able to track Beerus being taken by Whis -the fastest being in the Universe - crossing vast swathes of space in 26 minutes and 44 seconds to arrive at King Kai's planet.

I suggest that King Kai can track FTL movement so long as its in a straight line, but struggles to track the darting movements of slower beings, kinda like a person being able to see small objects that travel at hundreds of mph in straight line, but struggle to see a fly darting around at 4mph. It's common sense and avoids a massive inconsistency.

@nemesisreloaded: King Kai wasn't exactly able to track them and this wasn't even shown or mentioned either. He just sensed they were coming. In fact, when they arrived he did not even know they did until Beerus spoke.

If only there were something like a feat or statement confirming characters pre-DBS were as fast as the fanbase claims them to be. This post sums it up quite perfectly:

He was able to sense that they were moving and in precisely which direction - a planet in 30-35m radius range in an entire universe and cosmos and King Kai knew they were coming directly to him from Beerus' movements. I think it's safe to say he was panicked and distracted by Goku, taking his eye off the ball when he hadn't realised they'd arrived.

lots of baselles arguments lol, the Manga has plenty feats and statements that are ftl.

Nowhere is it mentioned that "Dyspo is the first FTL character". I like it when people bring these arguments that we only now had hit FTL combat speeds when earlier Z has shown such things where even weaker characters were able to hit Relativistic speeds of about 48-90 percent of Light's speed with their beams alone and later characters were dodging much faster and stronger beams. In fact, Burter in the original translation which was corrected by Herms stated that "I am the fastest in the Universe" where Goku reacted with "That makes you the second" up until everyone we know existed.

@shenron007: Ok, list them. This topic is about pre-super FTL, it's up to you to prove it.

@nemesisreloaded: There is plenty of other topics regarding ftl speeds feats and they are all over the Manga i don't need to list anything xd.

@shenron007: Then it won't be hard to copy and paste

@nemesisreloaded: he didn't track Whis and this argument isn't about Super, he just knew they were coming.

There is no FTL feats before DB Super. Solar flare doesn't count

The lowball is hilarious

@03s7: Um, where are the FTL feats before super?

@jashugan: there are a few, where are the inconsistencies?

@03s7: If there are a few then provide them.

No proof of that

@03s7: He tracked Beerus, who was being taken by Whis. If he didn't track Beerus how would he have known he was coming? And this argument is about FTL before Super. So yeah, Super is involved.

@nemesisreloaded: proof that he tracked them?

@nemesisreloaded: he sensed his presence, it wasn't the same as him tracking their movements.

@03s7: If youre looking for a scan or statement, I dont have one for you. I have simple that far exceeds "he just knows".

In order for you to determine the direction of travel and to determine no deviation in course, you need to know the location at at least 3 different times over the course of a large enough distance to remove error.

The fact that King Kai knows in a vast universe ? and cosmos that Beerus is coming to him means he knows precisely the direction of his travel, and he can only know that if he keeps tabs on his movements, ie, tracking him.

@nemesisreloaded: alright well unfortunately I did watch it and there is a very different context then the one your implying. Unless you can prove otherwise, you should concede.

@03s7:I should concede because you feel the context is different?

Ok bud, I'll do whatever you feel I should do.

Why.... is Beerus-sama's KI... headed for this planet...?

He'll... be here... any moment!

I am curious what it is I got confused about, or what I misrepresented about this that leads you to believe that I should concede, when you were denying first that this counts, and next that King Kai - and I quote -

Or maybe consistency should only be strictly adhered to when its not you.

No one's lowballing here, my friend.