First off I'd like to say hi to everyone since I'm new here. So... Hello!

While browsing I found this text here and I wanted to share with you guys and hear what are your thoughts about it.

I don't know if this has been brought up or not, but there was an instance where Vegeta and the others were able to sense and track the Ginyu Force traveling in their Ftl space pods.

The pods arriving at Namek:

But while actually fighting the Force or Frieza, they weren't able to track their movements at all. Which would make their combat speed Ftl at bare minimum.

There is also another feat in the manga where Goku raises his power and attacks in a period of time so brief that not even advanced scouters were able to detect it. Goku would have to be faster than light in order for this to happen considering how fast signals travel through a computer.

Interesting, tbh I would say they were at least at the end of the Namek saga lightspeed in regards to combat.

Wow the last one is pretty good

If I'm not mistaken Burten stated at some point to have speed of light after Goku out speed him

@edbeatle: This was probably a mistranslation, but I don't recall this instance.

@brobs: Found it, but yeah, probably a miss translation

interesting, but unless pods are moving in space, they won't have anywhere near close to light speed, and would be slowed down considerably to land in order for safe landing and not blowing up the pod & the planet by accident.

I mean if you really want to get technical this is an FTL feat way earlier as well. Nice find btw. That's a pretty solid feat.

Not sure if its relevant but the Ginyu Force before going to the planet Namek were said to be off conquering another planet before Frieza told them to come, that could help to know how fast the pods might have been going.

@apex_pretador: The second scan show the pods at the space.

@thedarkpaladin@never_give_up@theman44@emperorthanos@watcher_killer4

I really want to know what you guys think about this feat.

@johncena69swag said:

I mean if you really want to get technical this is an FTL feat way earlier as well. Nice find btw. That's a pretty solid feat.

Or maybe Goku was just moving too fast for their eyes, not necessarily faster than light, cause I don't see anything to indicate that.

@brobs: I don't see how this confirms FTL speed, but it was a good find nonetheless.

@thedarkpaladin: Because if they could keep up with the FTL space pods but couldn't with the actual force then the force should be faster than the pods, so they need FTL speed at least.

@mysticmedivh: And what you think about the thread feat?

I'm not sure how detecting five large power levels approaching the planet would indicate that they can travel, react to, or fight at FTL speeds. If you really want to use physics here, an object with mass traveling FTL would do far more damage than this if it slammed into a planet:

@thedarkpaladin: I'm not sure how detecting five large power levels approaching the planet would indicate that they can travel, react to, or fight at FTL speeds

I'm talking about the force fighting at FTL speed not the Z warrios. If the Z-warriors were able to follow the pods than they should be able to follow the Ginyu force as well, and as we see this don't happen so the Ginyu force would need to be faster than the pods to be able to execute this feat.

The pods were able to travel planet to planet in little time so I can't see how they are not FTL , obviously real life the damage would be way above the one shown in that scan, but if we are really going to use real physics, alot of thing would be disregarded.

@brobs:

I'm talking about the force fighting at FTL speed not the Z warrios. If the Z-warriors were able to follow the pods than they should be able to follow the Ginyu force as well, and as we see this don't happen so the Ginyu force would need to be faster than the pods to be able to execute this feat.

When did the Z Fighters have trouble following the Ginyu Force? But anyway, they were just able to detect five large power levels approaching the planet, and only after the Elder Namek told them about it.

The pods were able to travel planet to planet in little time so I can't see how they are not FTL , obviously real life the damage would be way above the one shown in that scan, but if we are really going to use real physics, alot of thing would be disregarded.

Perhaps they start to slow down as they approach the planet. And if we ignore real life physics, that kind of throws your point about the scouters out the window.

@mysticmedivh said:

@johncena69swag said:

I mean if you really want to get technical this is an FTL feat way earlier as well. Nice find btw. That's a pretty solid feat.

Or maybe Goku was just moving too fast for their eyes, not necessarily faster than light, cause I don't see anything to indicate that.

Well usually that would be the case. However, Goku never left anyone's line of sight since he was confined to the ring. He simply was moving so fast that his body didn't reflect any light. You may ask: how fast must one move to avoid reflecting light? Well I have an answer for you. He would have to be faster than light.

@johncena69swag said:

@mysticmedivh said:

@johncena69swag said:

I mean if you really want to get technical this is an FTL feat way earlier as well. Nice find btw. That's a pretty solid feat.

Or maybe Goku was just moving too fast for their eyes, not necessarily faster than light, cause I don't see anything to indicate that.

Well usually that would be the case. However, Goku never left anyone's line of sight since he was confined to the ring. He simply was moving so fast that his body didn't reflect any light. You may ask: how fast must one move to avoid reflecting light? Well I have an answer for you. He would have to be faster than light.

I'm not quite getting what you're trying to say.

Goku was FTL because he was confined to the arena?

How does that make him FTL? How isn't that just him moving around faster than anyone's eyes can see?

@mysticmedivh: sorry I guess I should have explained it. In real life objects only appear invisible to us if they pass through our line of sight faster than they can be perceived. Since Goku was confined to the arena he never leaves the line of sight of the viewers of the tournament. Since he couldn't have possibly crossed through their entire line of sight he must have been moving fast enough to achieve true invisibility. True invisibility is only achieved at FTL speed.

I still don't see why he couldn't have been just moving around while within the arena faster than anyone could see.

And this isn't real life. You can only apply so much real life logic and science to a fictional universe before things don't really work out.

@mysticmedivh: I still don't see why he couldn't have been just moving around while within the arena faster than anyone could see.

Because if he was, you could still see him. Faster an object goes, more blured it is but it never disappears. At extremealy high that blur becomes "solid". You would basically see one long line, solid, black line made of Goku. In order to disappear completely it has to be ftl.

And this isn't real life. You can only apply so much real life logic and science to a fictional universe before things don't really work out.

They do work out since they mentioned FTL miltiple times in the manga... but people always say "mistranslation"...

Quick doubt, I´m currently working on Vegeta Respect Thread for the Frieza Saga and I don´t know exactly how to call this feat:

Gallery

Frieza´s death beam was described as a flash of lightand also absolutely no one was capable of reacting the first beam, besides Goku obvious capacity to react to this attack Vegeta is also capable of reacting to this push Gohan out of the way. My question is, could this beam being despited as light speed? Or at least reaching this point?

Gallery

I don´t wanna misinform people about this so yeah, is this light speed, reaching light speed or not light speed at all?

I addressed this feats as this

Please, also DO NOT try to debunk this feat by any mean possible nor start unnecessary warflame about this, just wanna know personal opinions about this.

@edbeatle said:

Quick doubt, I´m currently working on Vegeta Respect Thread for the Frieza Saga and I don´t know exactly how to call this feat:

Gallery

Frieza´s death beam was described as a flash of lightand also absolutely no one was capable of reacting the first beam, besides Goku obvious capacity to react to this attack Vegeta is also capable of reacting to this push Gohan out of the way. My question is, could this beam being despited as light speed? Or at least reaching this point?

Gallery

I don´t wanna misinform people about this so yeah, is this light speed, reaching light speed or not light speed at all?

I addressed this feats as this

Please, also DO NOT try to debunk this feat by any mean possible nor start unnecessary warflame about this, just wanna know personal opinions about this.

I think they might be tbh. On that first one Frieza was a good distance away from them and they didn't even realize he had fired a blast.

Objects going a consistent speed and trajectory are much easier than objects moving in random directions at different speeds.

For example it's easy to track an airplane in the sky that's going hundreds of miles per hour, but it's hard to track a bug flying around you even though it's going much slower.

@alextheboss: This would be true if they were seeing them. But they were actually sensing them.

@brobs: Ya, but sensing would probably work in a similar way. King Kai knows where it's heading and what speed it's heading. Goku and Frieza were going back and forth at extreme speeds, so it would most likely be much harder to track something like that.

@alextheboss: I won't lie eventhough it can be true, it is pure speculation.

@brobs: Ya, but considering they are able to track ftl ships, but continually show lower than light speed feats, it's the only thing that makes sense. Didn't they sense the saiyans coming in the saiyan saga too?

@alextheboss: show lower than light speed feats

If you are talking about how fast they move in the show I really hope you know this is made so we can watch the series.

Didn't they sense the saiyans coming in the saiyan saga too?

Not that I remember. I'm going to search it.

Edit*:

No they don't

@brobs:

If you are talking about how fast they move in the show I really hope you know this is made so we can watch the series.

No, I'm talking about how long it takes for them to get places. Goku traveled about mach 30 on snake way, and it took teen Gohan like 30 minutes to fly to school or something. If they were the speed of light they could go around the planet a couple times in under a second.

@alextheboss: You do know that traveling and fighting are 2 different things don't you? Cause this prove FTL combat speed and not FTL traveling speed.

@brobs: If they had FTL combat speed they should have at least close to light speed travel speed, which they don't. They have high hypersonic travel speeds and relativistic combat speeds.

@alextheboss: If they had FTL combat speed they should have at least close to light speed travel speed

Why should one thing relate with the other? They can very well have a huge burst speed and don't be able to keep it.

@brobs: If they were able to burst at speeds FTL for just a tenth of a second they would of already of circled the planet, or possibly more depending on how much FTL.

@brobs: They can amplify their power for an instant. Also in my opinion travel speed has always been a plot-device.

@barodas: I think you tagged the wrong person?

@brobs: Well when you said that they can huge burst speed I just wanted to drop of a scan of Piccolo saying that they can.

@barodas: Oh, I see. Thank you then.

@alextheboss You should see barodas scan.

This was pretty much copy pasted of what I posted on anime vice.

http://animevice.boards.net/thread/7189/ftl-feat-db

Just took a hiatus for a bit. Didn't really think anyone would notice though O.o

There is also another feat in the manga where Goku raises his power and attacks in a period of time so brief that not even advanced scouters were able to detect it. Goku would have to be faster than light in order for this to happen considering how fast signals travel through a computer.

Not sure about that. When Goku moves behind Burter and Jeice on Namek, it takes some time for the scouters to detect him. You can actually see Vegeta looking at what appears to be three figures a few panels before the rest of them knew what happened.

@thedarkpaladin: Those look like trees tbh.

Also how would that disprove the point?

@panda_emperorix:

The three figures on the hill aren't trees.

Vegeta was looking at Goku before their scouters were able to get a reading. Even Jeice had enough time to ask Burter what was going on.

Smh, DBZ is like DCCU of anime. Some people love it, some being neutral and other just hate just becuz hating it seems cool to them.

Either way, both are source of controversy.

@thedarkpaladin said:

@panda_emperorix:

The three figures on the hill aren't trees.

Vegeta was looking at Goku before their scouters were able to get a reading. Even Jeice had enough time to ask Burter what was going on.

The reason Vegeta was able to see Goku was because he was already looking in that General direction. Krillin and Gohan are able to sense power levels and they still weren't able to pick it up right away. There's also the fact that Goku can supress his power level in short bursts. There have also been multiple instances of where scouters weren't able to pick up suppressed power levels until they were right on top of them like when Dedoria picked up a small power level spike not knowing that it was Gohan. Also the fact that they can track the ginyu space pods before they arrive at the planet would mean that they can pick up things that are going ftl with their ki sense, but they weren't able to pick up Goku's ki at all in that instance.

@panda_emperorix:

The reason Vegeta was able to see Goku was because he was already looking in that General direction. Krillin and Gohan are able to sense power levels and they still weren't able to pick it up right away. There's also the fact that Goku can supress his power level in short bursts.

The scouters were still able to get a reading on his suppressed power level before he fought Recoome. He was increasing it in short bursts while attacking, but the Ginyu seemed to believe he was at 5,000 if i recall.

There have also been multiple instances of where scouters weren't able to pick up suppressed power levels until they were right on top of them like when Dedoria picked up a small power level spike not knowing that it was Gohan.

Yeah, but there have also been quite a few instances where the scouters failed to pick up on non-suppressed power levels as well. Like when Raditz first came to earth, it took his scouter a while to detect Piccolo and Goku, even though they were, by far, the strongest power levels on the planet at the time.

Also the fact that they can track the ginyu space pods before they arrive at the planet would mean that they can pick up things that are going ftl with their ki sense, but they weren't able to pick up Goku's ki at all in that instance.

Already addressed the ships earlier. If we take physics into account like we're doing with scouters, the only logical explanation would be that the ships must have been slowing down as they approached the planet, or else they would have slammed right through it. Though if we ignore physics completely, there isn't much i can say about it.