Jiren is NOT stronger than Beerus!!!

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#1 Edited by GodsVileandDarkwing (1897 posts) - - Show Bio
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Toppo stated in the manga that Jiren is stronger than Belmod, he did NOT mention Jiren is stronger than ALL Gods of Destruction, only Belmod. Anyone who believes Toppo is referring to all Gods of Destruction is only considered headcanon.

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Whis mention in the anime that Jiren is so strong that not even a God of Destruction can beat him, he did NOT mention ALL God of Destruction. We later found out he was only referring to Belmod during Tournament of Power. Anyone who believes Whis is referring to all Gods of Destruction is AGAIN using headcanon.

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When Whis stated Belmod is stronger than Beerus, Beerus stated he only LOST in arm wrestling just like he did to Quitella in the manga. That does NOT mean he would LOSE to them in a FIGHT! That's like saying Post-Crisis Superman would lose to Raditz in a fight, because he can't EVEN lift up a planet on his own, yet he can BLOW up the star by striking it. Lifting strength =/= attack potency.

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Going by the manga, Beerus is the only God of Destruction that knows Ultra Instinct, the GREATEST martial art technique EVER introduced in Dragon Ball Super, and all the Gods of Destruction has to team up on him just to hurt him. In a one-on-one fight, he would NOT lose to anyone of them in a fight.

Toriyama: "Currently I have no plans for Goku and Vegeta surpassing Beerus and Whis."

Toriyama DIRECTLY stated in the interview when Dragon Ball Super production was being made, he does NOT want Goku and Vegeta to surpass neither Beerus NOR Whis not matter how strong they get. So the fact that people still believe in the headcanon every time Goku and Vegeta gets a new transformation, they would surpass Whis let alone Beerus, is laughable.~ Beerus > Goku > Jiren. Until this day, he has not said anything otherwise.

"On the usual suspects: Goku is already pretty close to being a god, and Vegeta is desperately trying to catch up. This time Freeza shows particular growth. He wants to be on top, but is pondering how he can with Beerus and co. around. Is his ambition to defeat the Omni-King?!"

https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/1025905720556810240

According to this statement from Herms, by the time of Dragon Ball Super: Broly, Goku is close to being a god, with Vegeta desperately trying to catch up with him. which further backs up that Jiren is not stronger than Beerus.

In end result, while completely ignoring Jiren fanbase's headcanon while using facts and statements, Jiren is NOT stronger than Beerus. Anyone who disagrees at this point is completely delusional. END OF DISCUSSION!!!

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#2 Posted by Revan- (7959 posts) - - Show Bio

Jiren is stronger.

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#4 Posted by Omega_kai (3162 posts) - - Show Bio

I believe he is.

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#6 Edited by owaridaaaa (5 posts) - - Show Bio

Jiren >> Beerus in the anime. I could not see Beerus tank Goku SSJ Blue KKx20, Hit with Time Skip, Vegeta Ultra Blue, Android 17 and Golden Frieza, Ultra Istinct Omen and Ultra Instinct (some of these Jiren fought on at the same time). His feats in the anime are huge, going toe to toe with Ultra Instinct Goku after tanking low God-tier opponents is crazy. In his BASE non ripped form he could destroy every low tier God ffs.

As for the manga, it is true that Beerus is OP as hell, but we still have to see Jiren in action, PLUS I believe Beerus simply got hyped up in the manga because Akira felt the fandom thought he was being nerfed. Anyway in the anime Jiren would shitstomp Beerus with his Limit Breaker form.

Plus are we forgetting the guy 1v3d the strongest mortals from Universe 7 at very low stamina? And just after fighting evenly with form that's above GoDs. The man's a legend and the argument that Beerus is stronger could only count for the manga (which btw I believe has less plot holes).

peace

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#7 Posted by Cooldes (4908 posts) - - Show Bio

The manga =/= the anime.

When you say X is so strong not even a Y could beat him. It means all Ys.

If i said, a cruise ship is so heavy not even a bodybuilder could lift it. It means all bodybuilders unless i say

A specific body builder or group of them.

If i said "spiderman is so strong not even an avenger could beat him"

I would be wrong because Thor could beat him. Even if spiderman can beat 1 specific avenger, my statement still wouldnt make sense unless he could beat them all.

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#8 Edited by deactivated-5b84aca03eae8 (6261 posts) - - Show Bio

In the anime, although we have yet to see Beerus at full power, Jiren's been hyped and stated to surpass all GoD, so I believe he's more powerful than Beerus but not by a long shot.

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#9 Posted by Royal_Warrior (5059 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree, Beerus is still a level or two ahead of Goku and Jiren

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#10 Posted by GodsVileandDarkwing (1897 posts) - - Show Bio

Jiren >> Beerus in the anime. I could not see Beerus tank Goku SSJ Blue KKx20, Hit with Time Skip, Vegeta Ultra Blue, Android 17 and Golden Frieza, Ultra Istrinct Omen and Ultra Istinct (some of these Jiren fought on at the same time). His feats in the anime are huge, going toe to toe with Ultra Istinct Goku after tanking low God-tier opponents is crazy. In his BASE non ripped form he could destroy every low tier God ffs.

Toriyama stated in the interview he has no plans for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus, so no matter what transformation you name, they won't be beating Beerus any time because Toriyama said so, and hasn't stated anything otherwise so far till now. He also said the same thing about Frieza too. Android 17 can't even beat base Toppo who was losing to SSB Vegeta, and Jiren lost to Goku in a fight. The same Goku and Vegeta that Toriyama stated is inferior to Beerus.

As for the manga, it is true that Beerus is OP as hell, but we still have to see Jiren in action, PLUS I believe Beerus simply got hyped up in the manga because Akira felt the fandom thought he was being nerfed. Anyway in the anime Jiren would shitstomp Beerus with his Limit Breaker form.

Whis stated in the anime Beerus knows Ultra Instinct, but hasn't fully mastered it like Goku did in the anime, while no other Gods of Destruction was stated to even know this technique. So it makes sense for Beerus to be this OP in both the anime and manga.

Plus are we forgetting the guy 1v3d the strongest mortals from Universe 7 at very low stamina? And just after fighting evenly with form that's above GoDs. The man's a legend and the argument that Beerus is stronger could only count for the manga (which btw I believe has less plot holes).

Are you referring to the final fight between Jiren vs Goku, Frieza, and Andorid 17? Jiren, Goku, and Frieza were all low on stamina except for Android 17 who has infinite stamina, yet infinite stamina doesn't mean infinite power level, it only means he can keep fighting forever without tiring out except when he is badly wounded.

peace

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#11 Edited by GodsVileandDarkwing (1897 posts) - - Show Bio

@castiel_18 said:

In the anime, although we have yet to see Beerus at full power, Jiren's been hyped and stated to surpass all GoD.

Headcanon. Jiren was only hyped to be stated to surpass a God of Destruction in his universe, and that is Belmod, which is what Toppo in the manga and Whis in the anime was referring to, not all Gods of Destruction in all universes.

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#12 Posted by MainJP (7062 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree, Beerus still strangles the both of them.

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#13 Edited by GodsVileandDarkwing (1897 posts) - - Show Bio

@cooldes said:

The manga =/= the anime.

When you say X is so strong not even a Y could beat him. It means all Ys.

If i said, a cruise ship is so heavy not even a bodybuilder could lift it. It means all bodybuilders unless i say

A specific body builder or group of them.

If i said "spiderman is so strong not even an avenger could beat him"

I would be wrong because Thor could beat him. Even if spiderman can beat 1 specific avenger, my statement still wouldnt make sense unless he could beat them all.

Let's word in a way that it makes sense. Whis stated there lives a mortal that not even a God of Destruction, while he is referring to all Gods of Destruction going by your statement, it contradicts his second statement where he mention that Jiren's God of Destruction is stronger than Beerus. If Whis was referring to all Gods of Destruction, then why did he specifically pointed out Belmod for being that God of Destruction in his second statement? In other words, Whis is only saying Jiren is so strong he can beat a God of Destruction in a fight, not he can beat all Gods of Destruction in a fight. Get what I'm saying? English is tricky language with it usage on grammar.

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#14 Posted by Scotchbear (2278 posts) - - Show Bio

@godsvileanddarkwing: Toriyama said he had no plans for them to surpass Beerus anytime soon, this was like 2 years ago.

So it’s not like they overnight became stronger than Beerus it took 2.5 years of episodes for Goku to finally surpass him.

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#15 Posted by marvelfan1992 (3149 posts) - - Show Bio

We don't know if Beerus>Belmod though since Belmod feigned defeat in the exhibition match

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#16 Edited by Scotchbear (2278 posts) - - Show Bio

MUI Goku is started to be >=Beerus

MUI Goku>;Beerus>=limit breaker Jiren>Full power Jiren>=UI Omen Goku

That’s how I have it.

I think limit breaker Jiren vs Beerus would be very close and hard to choose a winner, they’d probably split 50% maybe Beerus taking it 60% of the time

I think MUI Goku beats beerus 75-80% of the time

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#17 Edited by PhantomRant (1478 posts) - - Show Bio

He is. Sorry.

He and UI Goku were already GoD level before episode 130, and both became a decent amount stronger during their fight. You're pettifogging and latching onto outdated info.

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#18 Posted by Shenron007 (2110 posts) - - Show Bio

TS is right ya know, Beerus stomps.

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#19 Posted by Scotchbear (2278 posts) - - Show Bio

@shenron007: statements from several sources say MUI goku >= Beerus

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#20 Posted by Shenron007 (2110 posts) - - Show Bio

@scotchbear: Sources send by TS disagree with you so you wrong, stop being a fanboy cats are more awesome than monkeys, and bugs xd.

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#21 Edited by Scotchbear (2278 posts) - - Show Bio

@shenron007: ts did some major anime and manga cross referencing which isn’t the same canon

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#22 Posted by Dession_Viper (742 posts) - - Show Bio

Possible.

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#23 Posted by Jooosh1996 (2803 posts) - - Show Bio

Jesus Christ....Beerus was surpassed in the Anime by UI Goku, Jiren and possibly even Vegeta.

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#24 Posted by Shenron007 (2110 posts) - - Show Bio

@scotchbear: Mr Toriyama massively disagrees with you on the fact that anime isn't canon to manga.

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#25 Posted by TheDeathstar (4489 posts) - - Show Bio

Actually no, Beerus was surpassed when Goku mastered the state Beerus couldn't and still haven't. It also increased his stats above Jiren.

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#26 Posted by Shenron007 (2110 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedeathstar: wrong, wrong, wrong get your facts and sources right.

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#27 Posted by Scotchbear (2278 posts) - - Show Bio

@shenron007: Toriyama said he didn’t have plans for them to surpass him ANYTIME SOON. This was 2 years ago.

It wasn’t soon, it took the whole series for goku to surpass him for what? 2 episodes total?

MUI Goku eventually overwhelms Beerus just like he did to Jiren.

Beerus may be able to fight limit breaker Jiren fairly evenly

MUI Goku just matches up favorably against anyone who isn’t angel tier because of ultra instinct

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#28 Edited by TheDeathstar (4489 posts) - - Show Bio

@shenron007 said:

@thedeathstar: wrong, wrong, wrong get your facts and sources right.

Get yours right. Sources say that Jiren is stronger than Gods of Destruction and surpassed their level.

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#29 Posted by Shenron007 (2110 posts) - - Show Bio

@scotchbear: @TheDeathstar stop twisting tori's words with your false head canon's, TS disproved both your naratives pretty much xd.

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#30 Posted by Standardized (1502 posts) - - Show Bio

@scotchbear: @TheDeathstar stop twisting tori's words with your false head canon's, TS disproved both your naratives pretty much xd.

The only one making up head canon is you lmao. Both UI goku and Jiren are above beerus.

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#31 Posted by PhantomRant (1478 posts) - - Show Bio

>Implying Toriyama isn't capable of changing his mind like he's done before since BoG

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#32 Posted by Revold (859 posts) - - Show Bio

Reading through these one-liner comments.... smh

Firstly like some said manga power scaling is completely different from the anime. Beerus fighting multiple GoDs can at most be just a proxy feat, so I never use it as a main argument.

Secondly Beerus may be one of the strongest, but he is almost guaranteed not the strongest. (Universe mortal level is not a direct indicator, but a proxy one nonetheless). We don't know how Beerus compares with Belmod, but Beerus has always been confident about his hand-to-hand combat even among gods.

Thirdly I agree with OP even though some ppl here don't. Jiren was never stated to be stronger than all GoDs. Belmod never showed that he's one of the strongest GoDs either. Jiren is, however, definitely stronger than at least Sidra (scaling from Golden Frieza).

Fourthly we shouldn't assume Beerus are capable of even the unmastered UI.

Ok so why Jiren > Beerus. In U6 tournament Beerus sweats over SSBKK x10. Now that was different from the GoDs sweating over every little thing in tournament of power because back then there were no stakes. They weren't facing the risk of being erased, so Beerus being nervous meant something.

Jiren was pretty unimpressed with SSBKKx20. And that was before he surpasses his limits (in his fight against MUI), when he became even stronger then when he fought Belmod.

Conclusion: Belmod < Beerus < Jiren. Until further info given.

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#33 Posted by JohnCena69swag (4081 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah pretty sure goku surpassed beerus in 110 and that still wasn't even close to jiren

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#34 Posted by KingOfWakanda (2897 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree, Beerus is still a level or two ahead of Goku and Jiren

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#35 Posted by omarlionvision (393 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh yeah because mastering a form that beerus hasent at all and jiren fighting evenly against it (until rage goku) makes beerus stronger.

Also you do realise akira changed his mind quickly and often, and that statement was 2 years ago...

Fail thread

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#36 Posted by thegreatlordd (1258 posts) - - Show Bio

@godsvileanddarkwing: You seem to be mixing Anime and Manga, which aren't the same, but I'll break down the parts of the argument I don't agree with.

Whis mention in the anime that Jiren is so strong that not even a God of Destruction can beat him, he did NOT mention ALL God of Destruction. We later found out he was referring to Belmod during Tournament of Power.

Yes, and Whis later said that this specific God was stronger than Beerus.

No Caption Provided

When Whis stated Belmod is stronger than Beerus, Beerus stated he only LOST in arm wrestling just like he did to Quitella in the manga.

This is likely Beerus's justification for this, Whis never said it was only in an arm wrestle, he said "stronger" in a general sense.

Going by the manga, Beerus is the only God of Destruction that knows Ultra Instinct, the GREATEST martial art technique EVER introduced in Dragon Ball Super

In the Anime he knows it as well, but it's not mastered.

Loading Video...

And it's the same in the Manga.

No Caption Provided

And all the Gods of Destruction has to team up on him just to hurt him.

Individual Gods could hurt Beerus along with all the other Gods, take Belmod for example.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

And he was greatly Injured in the Royale, in which there wasn't any teaming up.

No Caption Provided

Toriyama: "Currently I have no plans for Goku and Vegeta surpassing Beerus and Whis."

Yes, currently and this statement was made years ago. Toryiama also can and has changed his mind.

Beerus > Goku > Jiren. Until this day, he has not said anything otherwise.

Not directly, but he hasn't been asked, it was stated that MUI Goku was power surpassing even a God, being and that Jiren is the strongest foe in DB History.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

In end result, while completely ignoring Jiren fanbase's headcanon while using facts and statements, Jiren is NOT stronger than Beerus. Anyone who disagrees at this point is completely delusional. END OF DISCUSSION!!!

Anyone who doesn't think Jiren is weaker than Beerus is completely delusional? Bold claim, since there's so little to go off to compare them.

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#37 Posted by GokuAndSuperman (454 posts) - - Show Bio

There was a scanned saying that UI omen might of surpass Beerus. Even tho it’s not saying complete yes confirmed, but the form UI omen was used not MUI. So Goku and Jiren might of surpassed Beerus. Plus why do people used that old Toriyama interview? He never stated that he would never have Vegeta and Goku surpass Beerus. He said he had no plans and made those plans now. Stop twisting meaning what Toriyama is saying. Also Beerus clearly said that MSSB could be GOD CAD in other universes. Basically confirms that other gods are way weaker than others.

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#38 Posted by EmpressOfDread (12367 posts) - - Show Bio

Jiren is stronger. I have argued to many times I am getting bored of these already.

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#39 Posted by deactivated-5b84aca03eae8 (6261 posts) - - Show Bio

^^^Yeah based on those scans, feats and statements, Jiren is implied to be more powerful than Beerus.

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#40 Posted by jashro44 (54455 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't get why people rate Beerus so highly. In the anime he didn't even fight since the first arc. And in the manga that scene of him dodging all the gods at once is so out of context. The next chapter we see all the gods have abilities that affect all the rest of the Gods. Even Belmod at one point comes close to killing all the Gods at once.

Online
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#41 Edited by TJD2814 (517 posts) - - Show Bio
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#42 Posted by Shenron007 (2110 posts) - - Show Bio

@tjd2814: what you mean? Beerus still is the MVP :d.

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#43 Edited by GodsVileandDarkwing (1897 posts) - - Show Bio

@godsvileanddarkwing: You seem to be mixing Anime and Manga, which aren't the same, but I'll break down the parts of the argument I don't agree with.

Whis mention in the anime that Jiren is so strong that not even a God of Destruction can beat him, he did NOT mention ALL God of Destruction. We later found out he was referring to Belmod during Tournament of Power.

Yes, and Whis later said that this specific God was stronger than Beerus.

No Caption Provided

When Whis stated Belmod is stronger than Beerus, Beerus stated he only LOST in arm wrestling just like he did to Quitella in the manga.

This is likely Beerus's justification for this, Whis never said it was only in an arm wrestle, he said "stronger" in a general sense.

Going by the manga, Beerus is the only God of Destruction that knows Ultra Instinct, the GREATEST martial art technique EVER introduced in Dragon Ball Super

In the Anime he knows it as well, but it's not mastered.

Loading Video...

And it's the same in the Manga.

No Caption Provided

And all the Gods of Destruction has to team up on him just to hurt him.

Individual Gods could hurt Beerus along with all the other Gods, take Belmod for example.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

And he was greatly Injured in the Royale, in which there wasn't any teaming up.

No Caption Provided

Toriyama: "Currently I have no plans for Goku and Vegeta surpassing Beerus and Whis."

Yes, currently and this statement was made years ago. Toryiama also can and has changed his mind.

Beerus > Goku > Jiren. Until this day, he has not said anything otherwise.

Not directly, but he hasn't been asked, it was stated that MUI Goku was power surpassing even a God, being and that Jiren is the strongest foe in DB History.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

In end result, while completely ignoring Jiren fanbase's headcanon while using facts and statements, Jiren is NOT stronger than Beerus. Anyone who disagrees at this point is completely delusional. END OF DISCUSSION!!!

Anyone who doesn't think Jiren is weaker than Beerus is completely delusional? Bold claim, since there's so little to go off to compare them.

No Caption Provided

Beerus notes that Ultra Instinct Goku might be stronger than him. If Ultra Instinct Goku was stronger than Beerus, why did Beerus said "might be" instead of "he is"? The fact that Beerus still disagrees with you and thinks he is still better than Goku, means you need to drop with your headcannon that Jiren and Goku are stronger than Beerus.

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#44 Posted by thegreatlordd (1258 posts) - - Show Bio

@thegreatlordd said:

@godsvileanddarkwing: You seem to be mixing Anime and Manga, which aren't the same, but I'll break down the parts of the argument I don't agree with.

Whis mention in the anime that Jiren is so strong that not even a God of Destruction can beat him, he did NOT mention ALL God of Destruction. We later found out he was referring to Belmod during Tournament of Power.

Yes, and Whis later said that this specific God was stronger than Beerus.

No Caption Provided

When Whis stated Belmod is stronger than Beerus, Beerus stated he only LOST in arm wrestling just like he did to Quitella in the manga.

This is likely Beerus's justification for this, Whis never said it was only in an arm wrestle, he said "stronger" in a general sense.

Going by the manga, Beerus is the only God of Destruction that knows Ultra Instinct, the GREATEST martial art technique EVER introduced in Dragon Ball Super

In the Anime he knows it as well, but it's not mastered.

Loading Video...

And it's the same in the Manga.

No Caption Provided

And all the Gods of Destruction has to team up on him just to hurt him.

Individual Gods could hurt Beerus along with all the other Gods, take Belmod for example.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

And he was greatly Injured in the Royale, in which there wasn't any teaming up.

No Caption Provided

Toriyama: "Currently I have no plans for Goku and Vegeta surpassing Beerus and Whis."

Yes, currently and this statement was made years ago. Toryiama also can and has changed his mind.

Beerus > Goku > Jiren. Until this day, he has not said anything otherwise.

Not directly, but he hasn't been asked, it was stated that MUI Goku was power surpassing even a God, being and that Jiren is the strongest foe in DB History.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

In end result, while completely ignoring Jiren fanbase's headcanon while using facts and statements, Jiren is NOT stronger than Beerus. Anyone who disagrees at this point is completely delusional. END OF DISCUSSION!!!

Anyone who doesn't think Jiren is weaker than Beerus is completely delusional? Bold claim, since there's so little to go off to compare them.

No Caption Provided

Beerus notes that Ultra Instinct Goku might be stronger than him. If Ultra Instinct Goku was stronger than Beerus, why did Beerus said "might be" instead of "he is"? The fact that Beerus still disagrees with you and thinks he is still better than Goku, means you need to drop with your headcannon that Jiren and Goku are stronger than Beerus.

Not only was this line never said in the show, but this is a picture of UI Omen, who Jiren is definitely stronger than and Jiren is stronger than Beerus given feats. Saying Beerus is stronger is even more headcanon as there is no evidence supporting so.

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#45 Posted by GokuAndSuperman (454 posts) - - Show Bio

Jiren was able to take down UI omen at his base power. MUI is clearly big step of power and technique is complete, if he was able to defeat a full power Jiren. So clearly MUI Goku and Jiren hidden power is stronger than Beerus. The crazy thing these guys still want to be stronger. So Beerus is fucked either way that Jiren is gonna take training even more serious and Goku is gonna train to unlock UI again at will. So clear that Beerus is done and that Whis is the next step. Beerus has good 129 episodes of being that top dog. And Beerus isn’t a joke anyways. Beerus still can unlock MUI later on and he’ll surpass Goku if he reaches that power. But a big if and it matters how long it takes Beerus.

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#46 Posted by Arturo009 (3 posts) - - Show Bio

All true...sadly manga isn't canon , butbthe anime is. Beerus isn't thevstrobgest god , he said it the first time he fought goku,whis said it, the other god said it. Jiren is stringer than the god of destruction, by logica jiren is way stronger than Beerus.

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#47 Posted by Shenron007 (2110 posts) - - Show Bio

@arturo009: lol at manga isn't canon but anime is ? How about the entirity of DBS isn't canon. seems more legit. if people want to disprove GT :d.

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#48 Posted by Yabuturtle (230 posts) - - Show Bio

Not sure how the manga will go about it. All of the gods do not have the same power level, but they can all give each other a tough fight. Sidra can still give Beerus a somewhat difficult time with him being a god. If Jiren is stronger, especially when he unlocked his full potential to match MUI Goku, I'd say he's pretty damn close.

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#49 Posted by Arturo009 (3 posts) - - Show Bio

@shenron007: Manga isn't from Akira Toriyama just like gt ^_^., infact it's different rom the anime. Anime i made by Akira Toriyama and it's the canon one.

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#50 Posted by Shenron007 (2110 posts) - - Show Bio

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