@rukelnikovftw: WHAT?! Wait, Kefla, who was beat by Omen 2 Goku, is stronger than MUI Goku who perfected his attacks, steamrolled suppressed Jiren, and nearly beat Limit Breaker Jiren? Really?

Anywho, to answer the question, SSG is not Universal. SSB is not either. Neither is SSB KKx20, Omen is near it, and I’d say MUI is universal.

Ssg nearly destroyed the universe. People that deny it are using their head canon.

No

neither is UI as it is a reaction speed hax not a kaioken technique

@shintoki: Well, UI is supposed to be, but I don’t think so since there is no reason why Goku would go from losing in SSB to then matching Jiren with attacks in power, to then overpowering him and in MUI completely no selling his attack. Goku’s ki seems to get much strongerm when it is only supposed to be a state of mind. I think people overhype SSG a little, but I’d say MUI is universal or a bit short of that.

Well, UI is supposed to be, but I don’t think so since there is no reason why Goku would go from losing in SSB to then matching Jiren with attacks in power

thats because goku tried to go all out against jiren despite knowing he has less power

o then overpowering him and in MUI completely no selling his attack.

Imagine roshi vs jiren but even more broken and you should get it

it was just a matter of ki manipulation (up/down grading body stats) and exploiting the no killing rule making jiren locked in defense and restricted in power to not kill his opponents + reacting to it in time, at least manga wise

Goku’s ki seems to get much strongerm when it is only supposed to be a state of mind. I think people overhype SSG a little, but I’d say MUI is universal or a bit short of that

SSG is shit mate. people in the manga community already cracked its multiplier based on toyo hints, which is 500x. manga wise. ki rising just means goku is going all out in base form

No. Quite the opposite. The same can be said for the people that use their headcanon to wank/highball him to high multiversal levels.

There no need to debate people that use head canon. The narrator stated that universe would be destroyed in 3 clashes. Old kai also stated it. We have visual proof of the shock waves destroying planets at other side of the universe. Any one denies it using head canon and is going against canon material.

There no need to debate people that use head canon

duh sherlock.

The narrator old kai stated that universe would be destroyed in 3 clashes

there was no narration. it was just old kai speaking nonsense for the second time. with his first being the bad air causing the fusion to turn off. fixed and it did and nothing happened

We have visual proof of the shock destroying planets at other side of the universe

universe =/= planets

Any one denies it using head canon and is going against canon material

yep. you should stop using your headcanon and denying that its not a universal feat

Nothing below GoD level is universal imo.

wasn't beerus stated to be able to destroy the kaishin realm which translate to 1/10 of the universe or something? because if so. then that's believable

@shintoki: There are multiple statements implying the gods of destruction are universal, but Zeno is the first character with legit universal feats. You could argue infinite Zamasu is universal as well.

zamasu is inarguable.

i really hate the fan term "infinite zamasu". first off, there is nothing infinite about zamasu in manga or anime

manga:

so he can split?, so what?, does that make tien infinite as well?, so he can split as he much as he wants to? and? there is a limit, he still has to distrubute his ki among them equally and if he keeps doing that it will get to the point where even a farmer with a shotgun can solo him

anime:

so he turned into ego the planet of dragon ball and??, his essence still remained as a planet with physical layers to it. proven by when vegeta shot it and it bounced back. his ki is spreading throughout the cosmos?, and?, his ki is still limited and will run out eventually, it leaking to the present?, and? it was a side effect as stated by beerus from things effecting the future therefore effecting the present. his ki is still coming from HIS essence which is a pseudo planet.

none of those are universal

zeno is pretty much the only one legit universal

@shintoki: I only called him infinite Zamasu because that's what other people call him. And while I would agree he doesn't have a universal feat, him spreading through the universe could be said to be universal to a degree. Though even if he is the size of a universe, that doesn't mean he can automatically bust one. For example I'm the size of a human, but I can't bust another human, lol.

i see what you did there

SSB and MUI should be around there. Not sure about SSG though.

SSG was universal in BoG but it became inconsistent with his later showings, SSB is only around multi-solar/galaxy from Zamasu statement and Toppo hakai feat, MUI could be universal depending if he's truly equal/above Beerus.

yes

still no

SSG (Earlier) - At least Galaxy+ level. I won't say the same for Enraged SSG (He is pretty mysteriously powerful and isn't explained)

SSGSS/Mastered SSB Goku (Multi-Galactic) - He was put up against a Zamasu who when drained of his power and battle damaged claimed he was going to destroy the very Galaxy they were in. Remember he was drained of his energy. This same Zamasu could become infinite (technically everywhere in the Universe but may still be finite just uncountable) and even Merge with the timeline in the Anime and leak beyond. Don't take his statements lightly he was still an apprentice Kaioshin and had knowledge of how Universe works.

His rage made him say that he was even going destroy the Universe next. But it's still arguable.

MUI Goku? Definitely a yes. He is scaled above even the Gods of Destruction and has feats beating Jiren.

2 Gods of Destruction fighting when reached a certain level can result in both their Universes getting destroyed so they are stopped by Angels. There's a reason fight happened in an infinite void away from Universes. Even weaker characters have claims of destroying it such as SSJ Kefla who was stronger than UI Goku also said she felt that she could destroy the Universe in one shot. Although it could be hyperbole but there's so many to go against. Toppo is literally just touching ballpark of God of Destruction and his Hakai could warp the world of void and even creating elements out of it.

PS: can't stop laughing at Alex's comment lmao.

I doubt that Blue level characters are universal but I feel like GoD level and above can at least shake the universe. Until someone other than Zeno destroys a universe it’ll be hard to say

Zeno is Multi-Universal through feats though and causally Universal+. Shaking Universe isn't something GoDs are limited to.

Wasn't it stated on the anoke that BOG Goku and Beerus were hitting each other with enough force to destroy the universe?

Yes he is Universal+

No.

SSG is probably multi-galaxy level, but every form above that is universal.

They've been universal since BOG, anyone with a brain can see that

@takenstew22: ssg is universal

Yes. But I argue them lower for the sake of keeping things from getting muddy.

Same, which is why I put SSG atleast at multi-galaxy level.

SSg Goku was confirmed by the narrator to be hitting beerus with enough power to destroy a universe, headcanon isn't changing that.

No. He can't one-shot a universe or anything above. Those who say otherwise, pay them no mind. They are not worth your time (something you can't get or buy back).

Except for SSG who is multi-galaxy,every form above is universal.If you're in 2020 and you still debate this you're delusional.

2020 and i can still savor that tasty salt of haters yum

SSG = multi galaxy

SSB = multi galaxy+

SSBE = multi galaxy++

SSB KKx20 = multi galaxy++

UI Omen = universal

MUI = universal+

No. In neither for form. If that were the case, 1) he wouldn't of been thrashed around, nor struggled during the RoF arc and the Universe 6 arc; 2) not would have needed Zeno's assistance during the latter end of the Future trunks arc; 3) wouldn't have a had a time against fodders during the T.o.P arc...each fight he was in should have not taken as long as it had, if he was "universal+".

That being said, a lot of whom wouldn't been making such claims if they would have thought logically and not so caught up in their fanboyism. And that clash back on the B.o.G saga, that was inconsistent. Never again did it occur in the following arcs.

@ps4gamerdude: it was explained in the actual fight that people with proper control over ki and their punches nullify collateral damage.

No, none of those forms are "TRUE" universe busters. Can they destroy a universe overtime? Yes. But Are they universal tier? No.

This is Zeno significantly affecting/destroying the 7th universe in the future in ONE SHOT. This is "TRUE" universe busting. Most people these days don't know that they take statements to heart but the universal level they are talking about isn't TRUE universe busting so I'll be referring to it as TRUE universe busting instead of just universal.

Here is Zamasu claiming he'd destroy the galaxy. He's a TRUE galaxy tier fighter. Meaning ssg, ssjblue, ssjblue evolution, ssjblue kaiken x20 & ssjblue perfected are ALL weaker than TRUE galaxy level. And are not TRUE universe busters. UI Omen hit TRUE galaxy level and MUI hit TRUE galaxy+

Alot the 3 clash thing wasn't gonna destroy the universe since they had 3 shockwaves already meaning they weren't really gonna destroy the universe if they were it would've took possibly YEARS since only a planets and some rocks were destroyed and the universe has more than 100 billion planets

@vena: conveniently ignoring how severely weakened Zamasu was, Vegeta and Trunks even pointed it out, a healthy Zamasu is still very easily multi galaxy+++, lmao, possibly universal as a highball (manga zamasu, in the anime even non fused future zamasu is arguaby universal). Theres also fact that Goku Black and Zamasu in the manga even specified themselves that they didn't want to go as far as destroying even one planet originally, destroying the Milky Way was just to spite the Z fighters, hes capable of far more, even in that fatigued state. Also, Manga DBS and Anime DBS are two very different continuities, and are not canon to each other. Manga Goku didn't reach universal till TOP, while anime Goku was Universal since the first arc of DBS

I've seen you on going around on many threads going around mindlessly downplaying Goku and DBS and talking shit about DBS fans because they dont buy your salty bullshit, this you?

@vena: huh? what headcanon? Do you even know what headcanon means, or just spewing big words you learned while on these forums out of your mouth since you can't disprove anything I've said? The milky way was literally the galaxy he was going to destroy, and its because Goku pissed him off by beating him up. Are you illiterate or lack common sense, or just didn't read the chapter (if so, I'm more than happy to send you a link where you can read the full chapter)? Why else would he destroy it, when his whole original ideology was to avoid destroying anything? Nothing I've said at all is headcanon.

@gelato_exotic: Again, prove ALL the claims YOU ASSUMED to be true with ACTUALLY EVIDENCE. The insulting I'm gonna ignore that I'm gonna draw you out to see if you can actually prove all the HEADCANON you claimed or if you can't (you obviously can't)

"Vegeta and Trunks even pointed out, a healthy Zamasu is still very easily multi galaxy+++" PROVE THIS

"destroying the Milky Way was just to spite the Z fighters," PROVE IT WITH EVIDENCE

"hes capable of far more, even in that fatigued state." PROVE THIS WITH EVIDENCE

"Also, Manga DBS and Anime DBS are two very different continuities, and are not canon to each other" PROVE THIS WITH OFFICIAL STATEMENT FROM THE AUTHOR

"Manga Goku didn't reach universal till TOP, while anime Goku was Universal since the first arc of DBS" PROVE THIS WITH OFFICIAL STATEMENT

LMAOOO! Watch you won't be able to prove your HEADCANON!

@vena:

"Vegeta and Trunks even pointed out, a healthy Zamasu is still very easily multi galaxy+++" PROVE THIS

Lol, twisting and editing what I said, wtf are you doing? I said that Vegeta and Trunks and pointed it out how fatigued and beat down Zamasu was, and then said a healthy Zamasu is multi galaxy+, notice the comma between the two statements, or do you not know basic grammar either?

"destroying the Milky Way was just to spite the Z fighters," PROVE IT WITH EVIDENCE

I literally just did...? Did you miss the post above? There is no other reason he would have done it considering his ideology which he explained himself, also look at the context, Goku beat him up and he got humiliated which is why he tried to destroy the galaxy. I'd like you to disprove my claims this time, I've proven more thane enough.

"hes capable of far more, even in that fatigued state." PROVE THIS WITH EVIDENCE

LMFAFAOFAOFAO WHAT??? Any regular, living being is capable of doing more when they are healthy then when they are fatigued? This is basic common sense? It's always shown in Dragon Ball countless times, did you miss the entire tournament of power, or the ending of Kid Buu vs Goku (where Goku was too fatigued and Kid Buu was pushing back the spirit bomb easily, and then the Z fighters wish for Shenron to restore his strength and stamina and hes able to go SSJ again and overpowers Buu and Spirit bomb https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkR6fiACraM&ab_channel=Ved_Der, or why fucking senzu beans exist?

"Also, Manga DBS and Anime DBS are two very different continuities, and are not canon to each other" PROVE THIS WITH OFFICIAL STATEMENT FROM THE AUTHOR

1. DBS Manga is written by Toyotaro, who has no involvement in the anime. https://www.kanzenshuu.com/episode/super/ , https://www.kanzenshuu.com/manga/super/

2. The events literally fucked played out directly between the manga and the anime, its clearly different. Goku Black never went regular SSJ in the anime, nor did Zamasu became hundreds of clones of himself, how are you this dense?

3. The anime only features appearances of characters, such as Gregory, who is yet to appear in the DBS manga, even when King Kai's planet is shown

"Manga Goku didn't reach universal till TOP, while anime Goku was Universal since the first arc of DBS" PROVE THIS WITH OFFICIAL STATEMENT

Prove what? Manga Goku not being universal till ToP or anime Goku universal since first arc? Please specify.

@eredin12 bro come look at the arguments this fucking retard is making this is so pathetic and funny, he thinks shit like me saying the manga and anime are different continuities is headcanon LOL

@eredin12: Ah, I thought he may just be a troll but he seems awfully dedicated to downplaying DB even as one thats sad, fair enough, thanks for letting me know.

@vena

@emperorthanos-