Will he ever be able to beat batman? or be on same level of bruce?
Dick Grayson
Character » Dick Grayson appears in 9487 issues.
As the first Robin, Dick Grayson was the most famous sidekick in comic book history. As he ventured forth on his own, he formed the Teen Titans and became their leader. When the boy became a man, he became the independent hero known as Nightwing.
Will he ever be able to beat batman?
Will be ever be on the same level as Bruce, no but could there be a story where through the miracle of plot devices he ends up beating Batman, sure.
One does simply not beat Batman.
now your comment is complete.
He could beat him
You just want people to hate you, don't you?
He could beat him
You just want people to hate you, don't you?
i agree with him. I thought it was stated that Dick had eventually become a better fighter then Bruce due to his acrobatic skills. He trained under so many people and created his own style of martial arts to suit his strengths in fighting
@dimitridkatsis: Why would you say that ?
I don't know why people ever thought dick would become better than Bruce one day. Dick is more acrobatic, that's it.
Dick Grayson can beat Batman. Would it be a landslide victory? Hell no.
Dick Grayson fighting style is a mix of stuff that deals with his strength, which is stuff like acrobatic, speed, and using others strengths against them, making his fighting style one that doesn't really touch the ground that much, utilizing his acrobatic prowess. Batman's style has been stated to be more of a grounded one.
It is completely possible for Dick to win in a fight against Batman, but the odds are like 1/8 (Made up number, doesn't actually really reflect the odds, but to give a general idea to the matter) that he would win. which is much higher than anyone else Batman has trained.
lmao sure he could but it's not like DC will let it ever happen. Batman is his mentor, father and he is also more popular so there is no way his former sidekick would win against him but I think the most fans know that Dick has the best chances to beat Batman compared to the former Robins. I also dislike how many people act like Dick is just an acrobat, Dick has mastered almost the same fighting styles as Batman and he is faster and more flexible, he has very good chances to beat him if he ever decide to do so but let's be honest Dick is always portrayed as the good and loyal son so why should they ever fight for real?
I like how people think Dick doesn't stand a chance when he and Bruce recently had a fight and it was even.
...well many fans like to claim that they weren't fighting serious (which I doubt; come on have you seen the blood and the destruction?! wanna tell me they were just playing around?)
One does simply not beat Batman.
The writer of the fight scene in Nightwing #30 Tom King said he had Dick beat Bruce in the throw down in Nightwing #30. Do I think Dick could beat him 9 times out of 10? No. But he now has on record 1 win over the big guy.
@richardjohngrayson: Age takes it's toll.
@richardjohngrayson: Age takes it's toll.
No doubt. As I said 9 times out of 10 Bruce would hand Dick his arse. But that day was that one day out of 10. It is also 100% noted that this was a fight. No tech. No theatricality and deception. In a Batman vs Nightwing fight all out tech etc it would not have been this kind of fight.
I agree with the idea that if they fought 10 times that Dick would have a victory in there somewhere, most of the time though I think Bruce would win.
He already did in Nightwing #30!
If there is one person in the DC Universe that could beat Batman in a hand to hand fight, I would say it would be Dick Grayson. With all the emotion and history between them it was a great fight to read on page, but it would have been one hell of a fight to see on the big screen.
He just did.
People are still claiming he was holding back? HA!Nope! The Batcave was utterly destroyed. No one is saying Dick Grayson wins by a landslide cause that ain't but people should know there's a hella lot more to Grayson then being Acrobatic. It seems people only think that's what he's good at. They seem to forget he has a Genius-Level Intellect(Yes, this may be hard to process for well...a lot but yes he does. Look at his time as Batman and his time in the Teen Titans. Robin and Nightwing. He tends to know everything except in his books, where they're just wanting to put Bat-Crossovers. Also the Batman Arkham Games also credit him as having one. And various DC books. Many of his incantatons has him extremely smart, even If he isnt always written to what he's actually suppose to be. Tim isn't the only smart former Robin), is a mentor himself(He's taught various people. Rarely is he ever credited as a Martial Art Master but he is), and so much more.
He's not just acrobatic. He's smart. He's quick on his feet. He work without a net. He's not all prep like Batman but in the event he needs to, he can prep up too. Even If he's not always portrayed this, he's still all the things listed. I can imagine someone replying to this and trying to use his low showing to show otherwise. Too bad I can point out instances where he shows he's smart and competent. The real people holding him back is those who keep wanting to compare him to Batman's level. Sure it's fun but it's ridiculous when we make it known that he'll never be on his mentor's level. He has just as of a fair shot as any DC Character. Maybe not in sales but in writing him, It's not impossible.
In any case, Batman would most likely want to train someone to be better then him or be an equal to him. Bruce won't be around forever and needs people he can trust to get the job done. You don't take apprentices If you aren't willing to make them better then you. Bruce doesn't train losers. He makes them winners and the best of the best. Even If it looks like he doesn't. It's all about the mission. He's not going to not make them better cause he's scared they'll kick his butt. Matter of fact, he might actually just be happy about that. And Dick Grayson, being his longest and most trusted former apprentice, has a good shot of proving that IMO.
If people can accept Jason Todd one shotting Lady Shiva despite all reason being thrown out of the window and having magic be all around him, I don't see why people can't fanthom Richard being able to get one up on his mentor out of 10 times. If your reason is because "Hes Batman" or "He's just acrobatic.", it doesn't suffice in my book. You could just say he's more experienced or something like that.
He could beat him
You just want people to hate you, don't you?
LMAO! Good post.
Also, in a recent podcast, Tom King said in that fight he beats Batman.
He also specified that Bruce was not holding back. He said cause 1) He said Batman wanted Dick to win. He been through tough times and wanted to let him know he still was good, despite what the Crime Syndicate did to him. 2) He needed to prepare him for this mission and needed to know Dick can handle the mission, even If it meant hurting people close to him. He also mentioned he knew people would say he was holding back and it wouldn't mean anything.
@jayaaerow: Wait, so if Bruce wanted Dick to win wouldn't that automatically mean he was holding back anyway?
@jayaaerow: Jason and Shiva was different. He used a shortcut she taught him and was later seen running away from Shiva because he knew he couldn't beat her again .
@scouterv: Not like that. XD He respects Dick to the point in a fight, he'll go all out. He's fairly confident he trained him enough to win a actual fight with him. And he likes that fact. That's what I mean. Remember, Bruce see's Dick more or less as a son & any sign of him progression means happinnes in the inside. He regarded Dick as his greatest success in his war against crime because he brought himself to try and change someone else for the better who could of became just like him. Or Worse. Also Dick help him try opening up to other people, even If he still has difficulty. In short, Dick open doors for Bruce in many ways, which is why their Dynamic can last over 74 years and still be the awesomest thing ever.
@jayc1324: I know how it was explain cause I read the issue but it's still blunt PIS. How does one "shortcut" their way against Shiva, the most deadliest and skilled MA & Assassin in DCU? Even If you recieved training by her, she taught Jason those moves and would at least know it might be one of the options he would utilize. Im not saying in anyway, Jason cant beat Shivacause he's smart and resourceful, but in H2H, he's suppose to be decimated. And she was taken out in one hit on the same page. It's PIS. Even though I actually kinda liked it because Shiva was talking smack to him in her appearance in that arc and she got what she needed. I just wish it was done in a different way. I'm not completely buying the "shortcut" explaination. You can't "shortcut" a fight. You can put a quick end and surprise.
@jayaaerow: But that sounds less like "he wanted him to win," and more like "he really, really, REALLY thinks Dick can handle this can of Smackdown I'm about to open."
I wouldn't consider what happened in Nightwing #30 as Dick beating Batman. The whole purpose behind the sparring session was for Bruce to see if Dick Grayson was broken by the Crime Syndicate and once he saw that Dick still had a lot of fight left in him, Bruce ended it.
@jayaaerow: To be fair, most people after reading that RHATO issue view what happened between Jason Todd and Lady Shiva as PIS and believe that if they really came to blows, Lady Shiva would win fairly easily.
Will Supergirl ever be able to beat Superman while they're both at their best? Likewise, Nightwing will never beat Batman on their best days.
Will Supergirl ever be able to beat Superman while they're both at their best? Likewise, Nightwing will never beat Batman on their best days.
He beat Batman in Nightwing #30. Scans are posted in this thread.
@bats_colony: If they were to fight on "their best days" that would be a stalemate, but probably leaning more towards Batman. Dick's agility and speed outclasses Batman's, and while Dick probably wouldn't be able to land that many punches, he sure wouldn't be hit as often either. Yeah, Batman could probably out-fight Dick if that all it was, but definitely not out-dodge. Dick's motto towards fighting is "move less, get hit less" while Batman is a ground pound, try to knock them out fast enough so I don't have to worry about dodging kind of guy, not saying he can't dodge because obviously he can. And if they are at their best, Dick's agility would just be at its peak, which is already the greatest in the DCU.
He may be "The Batman" but he trained Dick to be his equal, and successor, I'm sure he would want his partner to be at his [Batman] level, and want someone he can count on to watch his back
The writer of the fight scene in Nightwing #30 Tom King said he had Dick beat Bruce in the throw down in Nightwing #30. Do I think Dick could beat him 9 times out of 10? No. But he now has on record 1 win over the big guy.
@richardjohngrayson: That is true how ever dick is like a son to Bruce. I can see Bruce holding back because of fealings. Not that he wasn't beaten. I think Jason is a little under rated in story. After all he has same mentor. He has real killer instict. Damien is the best shot at a robin beating bat man. Although bat man will be close to forty when it's fair.
All I was implying was that, Supergirl is not that far off from Superman. Likewise, the same difference between Nightwing and Batman.
Sorry I worded that wrong. I meant to say Nightwing can't match Batman's fighting prowess with consistency. Not to say that he's far off, but he just isn't up to that mark.
I feel that Dick should have gone through the same training Batman went, or that Batman jus trained him more.
@captain_batman_ftw: He pretty much did. Batman trained Dick the same way he did, but in a shorter amount of time (6 months as apposed to 7 years). But yeah, it's like the same training.
And adding the training Dick probably did during his tenure AS Robin, like The Batman TV Show, it's really not that far-fetch to think he would be Bruce's equal when Batman isn't written like Bat-God supreme
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