so in red hood we finally got confirmed that Dick and Starfire did have a relationship and Starfire does remember but chooses to act like she does not, so im guess something happened between the two that will later be explored why else would she pretend to not remember a relationship between her and Dick? anyone?

Dick probably said she tanned too much and left for batgirl but I would love to see what played out.

@jesusdisciple001 said:

Dick probably said she tanned 2 much and left 4 batgirl but i would love 2 see wat played out

im not sure if Dick and Babs have had a relationship in the new 52 timeline they have not touched on it

@havoc1201 said:

so in red hood we finally got confirmed that Dick and Starfire did have a relationship and Starfire does remember but chooses to act like she does not, so im guess something happened between the two that will later be explored why else would she pretend to not remember a relationship between her and Dick? anyone?

Completely agree, at first I didn't know why she wouldnt want to go with Jason, but now it makes so much sense; she knew Dick was in there. But I think she finally "remembers" what happened and like pre new 52 I think Dick broke her heart and she didnt want to deal with it at that moment. I would love to finally see a story with these two, or if the Outlaws clash with NW, to which Tynion said he has talked with Higgns and they would love to eventually do that. What I found interesting is that Kori was all hands on Jason, and he said that he would watch over her for the rest of his life, it really had a romantic feeling to it.

@havoc1201 said:

@jesusdisciple001 said:

Dick probably said she tanned 2 much and left 4 batgirl but i would love 2 see wat played out

im not sure if Dick and Babs have had a relationship in the new 52 timeline they have not touched on it

The relationship between Dick and Babs has not been dug into yet, the most we know is that they were never together but they do have feelings for each other

I thought that we knew all of this from the zero issue...it was pretty apparent that they had a prior relationship when she had all of his old costumes stashed in her ship

@danhimself said:

I thought that we knew all of this from the zero issue...it was pretty apparent that they had a prior relationship when she had all of his old costumes stashed in her ship

right but they made it seem like she did not remember her and Dicks relationship but in this issue she actively avoids Dick because of their past. So in fact she does remember and whatever it is Dick must have hurt her or something.

@havoc1201 said:

@danhimself said:

I thought that we knew all of this from the zero issue...it was pretty apparent that they had a prior relationship when she had all of his old costumes stashed in her ship

right but they made it seem like she did not remember her and Dicks relationship but in this issue she actively avoids Dick because of their past. So in fact she does remember and whatever it is Dick must have hurt her or something.

I suppose so but I've always been one of the people who said that her memory thing was a lie

@danhimself said:

@havoc1201 said:

@danhimself said:

I thought that we knew all of this from the zero issue...it was pretty apparent that they had a prior relationship when she had all of his old costumes stashed in her ship

right but they made it seem like she did not remember her and Dicks relationship but in this issue she actively avoids Dick because of their past. So in fact she does remember and whatever it is Dick must have hurt her or something.

I suppose so but I've always been one of the people who said that her memory thing was a lie

yeah it seemed like was just a coup out, "oh she dosnt remember like a human"... bull

@havoc1201 said:

@danhimself said:

@havoc1201 said:

@danhimself said:

I thought that we knew all of this from the zero issue...it was pretty apparent that they had a prior relationship when she had all of his old costumes stashed in her ship

right but they made it seem like she did not remember her and Dicks relationship but in this issue she actively avoids Dick because of their past. So in fact she does remember and whatever it is Dick must have hurt her or something.

I suppose so but I've always been one of the people who said that her memory thing was a lie

yeah it seemed like was just a coup out, "oh she dosnt remember like a human"... bull

I think some of it may have been true but I think she was exaggerating it to stop people from asking her about Dick and possibly as some sort of emotional response to whatever happened between her and Dick...like she didn't even know that she was doing it

@danhimself said:

@havoc1201 said:

@danhimself said:

@havoc1201 said:

@danhimself said:

I thought that we knew all of this from the zero issue...it was pretty apparent that they had a prior relationship when she had all of his old costumes stashed in her ship

right but they made it seem like she did not remember her and Dicks relationship but in this issue she actively avoids Dick because of their past. So in fact she does remember and whatever it is Dick must have hurt her or something.

I suppose so but I've always been one of the people who said that her memory thing was a lie

yeah it seemed like was just a coup out, "oh she dosnt remember like a human"... bull

I think some of it may have been true but I think she was exaggerating it to stop people from asking her about Dick and possibly as some sort of emotional response to whatever happened between her and Dick...like she didn't even know that she was doing it

true

Such a horrible showing for Dick. Him hiding in the shadows creepily looking on, brooding about not wanting to see her and Roy was so out of character. Him commenting about how he doesn't want to get close to anyone again was just shit. That's not Dick Grayson. They should have just had the three of them meet and get it out of the way instead of dragging out this plot line for so long.

@Munsu said:

Such a horrible showing for Dick. Him hiding in the shadows creepily looking on, brooding about not wanting to see her and Roy was so out of character. Him commenting about how he doesn't want to get close to anyone again was just shit. That's not Dick Grayson. They should have just had the three of them meet and get it out of the way instead of dragging out this plot line for so long.

well if youve been reading the Death of the Family tie ins, Dick lost alot of people and has said in his own title that he can't rely on others anymore. So in the context on the situation it isnt out of character, he is going to leave Gotham so its not hard to believe him being a little broody.

@wessaari: I have followed the tie-ins and even with what happened to him I don't think he would act or say those things. It felt forced and out of character to me. He isn't Bruce, he wouldn't want to close out or push people away and brood alone in the dark, like Bruce was doing in the issue. Plus he just went through hell and you'd expect these people who are his former friends/teammates to want to reach out to him. I thought this whole scene was very poorly handled.

@havoc1201 said:

@danhimself said:

@havoc1201 said:

@danhimself said:

@havoc1201 said:

@danhimself said:

I thought that we knew all of this from the zero issue...it was pretty apparent that they had a prior relationship when she had all of his old costumes stashed in her ship

right but they made it seem like she did not remember her and Dicks relationship but in this issue she actively avoids Dick because of their past. So in fact she does remember and whatever it is Dick must have hurt her or something.

I suppose so but I've always been one of the people who said that her memory thing was a lie

yeah it seemed like was just a coup out, "oh she dosnt remember like a human"... bull

I think some of it may have been true but I think she was exaggerating it to stop people from asking her about Dick and possibly as some sort of emotional response to whatever happened between her and Dick...like she didn't even know that she was doing it

true

I agree. I kind of excited to see how they are going to play this out, and at the same time, i feel a little sad for her :c

@Munsu said:

@wessaari: I have followed the tie-ins and even with what happened to him I don't think he would act or say those things. It felt forced and out of character to me. He isn't Bruce, he wouldn't want to close out or push people away and brood alone in the dark, like Bruce was doing in the issue. Plus he just went through hell and you'd expect these people who are his former friends/teammates to want to reach out to him. I thought this whole scene was very poorly handled.

eh well, I understand where you are coming from but for Dick to be going through this, it just seems human to me. Honestly, it was odd for Dick to be there in the first place, but for him to be as standoff ish as has been acting seems to be expected, the circus is leaving him, Sonia isnt sure what her place is going to be, Babs is acting a bit mean, and all the while Bruce has lied to him. So for Dick to not want to have anyone close around him is out of character but it is out of character due to his environment, so it is "normal" for him to not acting himself. I dont want himm to be like this forever, but for me it seems human

@wessaari said:

@Munsu said:

@wessaari: I have followed the tie-ins and even with what happened to him I don't think he would act or say those things. It felt forced and out of character to me. He isn't Bruce, he wouldn't want to close out or push people away and brood alone in the dark, like Bruce was doing in the issue. Plus he just went through hell and you'd expect these people who are his former friends/teammates to want to reach out to him. I thought this whole scene was very poorly handled.

eh well, I understand where you are coming from but for Dick to be going through this, it just seems human to me. Honestly, it was odd for Dick to be there in the first place, but for him to be as standoff ish as has been acting seems to be expected, the circus is leaving him, Sonia isnt sure what her place is going to be, Babs is acting a bit mean, and all the while Bruce has lied to him. So for Dick to not want to have anyone close around him is out of character but it is out of character due to his environment, so it is "normal" for him to not acting himself. I dont want himm to be like this forever, but for me it seems human

I hate that they have put the character that used to be fun and exciting to read about in such a position. I mean Jason is the more fun Robin now. Fucking Jason. It's just in issue #17 of Batman he seemed fine so all this seems unnecessary. Since he was smiling and calling up Bruce even if he was going through a lot. That was how it should have been written and felt more true to the character. He should have met Jason in the open instead of looming in the shadows and said basically the same thing. That it wasn't the right time to meet them and for Jason to continue to look after them then crack that trademark smile of his and leave. That would have been so much better than what we got. Since he still comes across as someone you can tell is going through a lot but he goes about handling it different than Bruce.

@Munsu said:

Such a horrible showing for Dick. Him hiding in the shadows creepily looking on, brooding about not wanting to see her and Roy was so out of character. Him commenting about how he doesn't want to get close to anyone again was just shit. That's not Dick Grayson. They should have just had the three of them meet and get it out of the way instead of dragging out this plot line for so long.

Mind you, Kori and Dick still had a relationship at some point but the rest is gone. Kori and Roy made it very clear several times now, they do not have friends beyond Jason. Kori outright says Jason is her first platonic friend EVER so I doubt Dick and Roy were at all close in that team we say in #6 either.

@DurararaFTW: YeahI know. They really stripped Dick of so much of his past history and relationships and haven't really replaced it with anything. Still, they could have easily written them as friends before. Not like that would have been difficult, but that would have taken away from the new Jason I guess. Though I bet they are going to go the route that Dick let them all down in some way and is responsible for what happened. Failing seems pretty in-line with the New 52 Dick.

@Munsu said:

@DurararaFTW: YeahI know. They really stripped Dick of so much of his past history and relationships and haven't really replaced it with anything. Still, they could have easily written them as friends before. Not like that would have been difficult, but that would have taken away from the new Jason I guess. Though I bet they are going to go the route that Dick let them all down in some way and is responsible for what happened. Failing seems pretty in-line with the New 52 Dick.

so true

@Munsu said:

@DurararaFTW: YeahI know. They really stripped Dick of so much of his past history and relationships and haven't really replaced it with anything. Still, they could have easily written them as friends before. Not like that would have been difficult, but that would have taken away from the new Jason I guess. Though I bet they are going to go the route that Dick let them all down in some way and is responsible for what happened. Failing seems pretty in-line with the New 52 Dick.

I'm really hoping that he it'll end up being that he had to leave to be Batman, and it was too time consuming to be with them too...but I doubt that's how it'll be handled.

I don't even know who to reply to, but having read all the comments here:

Dick and Kori's relationship pretty much has to be addressed at some point, because we've known about it ever since she offered Jason Dick's clothes and said she remembered him fondly but didn't really remember any details. Admittedly her reaction in this issue is a bit odd, but it could definitely make sense in the way any romantically-involved girl might be reluctant to get back in touch with her ex (and that's before we consider whatever extent of amnesia she may have).

As for Dick's behavior, I think it's entirely in keeping with what happened in DotF and with what it sounds like he's acting like in his own book. He'll bounce back, but he better do it slowly or all the Joker did really was as pointless as people keep saying (and I don't agree with those people, haha). Likewise, Jason has been loosening up quite a bit with Roy and Kori, so the conclusion of this issue was pretty darn important. I don't think the concern that Dick will be all broody and Jason's just going to be a goofball is a reasonable concern.

I have to agree that I think Dick's characterization was completely on point. As I was telling people when it happened, he just lost everything he'd been working on for a year's time. What exactly was supposed to happen afterwards? Was he supposed to just brush that off and run off to another city? Honestly, the fact that we knew he was going to be leaving to another city before it happened was a big hint to this new characterization. And as @akbogert said, if Dick just bounced back it truly would've made the entire event, and more importantly the destruction of Haly's, useless and pointless.

In terms of Jason, he's merely reached a new stage in his life that he's been heading towards since his series started. That character more than most others has gone through numerous changes in personality. Everyone goes through a dark period, especially when you're in the Bat Family. This isn't even Dick's first as a matter of fact.

I think that's closure enough, now let's move on and never talk about it again. Those connections are already dead, buried and rotten thanks to Lobdell, who shouldn't write Nightwing ever again because he doesn't know how.

@Nathaniel_Christopher said:

I have to agree that I think Dick's characterization was completely on point. As I was telling people when it happened, he just lost everything he'd been working on for a year's time. What exactly was supposed to happen afterwards? Was he supposed to just brush that off and run off to another city? Honestly, the fact that we knew he was going to be leaving to another city before it happened was a big hint to this new characterization. And as @akbogert said, if Dick just bounced back it truly would've made the entire event, and more importantly the destruction of Haly's, useless and pointless.

In terms of Jason, he's merely reached a new stage in his life that he's been heading towards since his series started. That character more than most others has gone through numerous changes in personality. Everyone goes through a dark period, especially when you're in the Bat Family. This isn't even Dick's first as a matter of fact.

As funny (and as corny) as this may sound, I think that small interaction with jason re: Kori was what I needed to finally move past the fact that she is with someone else now. That has really been kinda grinding my gears since RHATO started but now with him essentially blessing Jason's efforts to keep her safe, it makes me more willing to accept that she has moved on. It strikes me that this is reminescent of the treatment of Dick passing on the Robin role to Tim Pre-N52 where the comic book powers-that-be thought that Tim would be accepted better than jason if Dick was actually shown to embrace the idea of a new Robin and formally hand over the role. Its a small thing but now my tiny heart is at peace...lol

Ick

@Munsu said:

Such a horrible showing for Dick. Him hiding in the shadows creepily looking on, brooding about not wanting to see her and Roy was so out of character. Him commenting about how he doesn't want to get close to anyone again was just shit. That's not Dick Grayson. They should have just had the three of them meet and get it out of the way instead of dragging out this plot line for so long.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Scott Lobdell and his complete disregard for a character's personality. Honestly, his mischaracterization has branched out to Jason, Tim, Superman, and now Dick (although Jason's change was for the better IMO.) It's no wonder they stopped letting him write the dialogue on Teen Titans.

@vernierhawk001: Nothing in that interaction talks about people moving on, it says that Starfire is a big liar and that Dick has 0 interest in talk with Jason because it's not of his business. It was nothing like Dick passing Robin to Tim.

Also if Starfire remembers Dick and is in a point where she can't even talk with him, the fact that she is making Jason using Dick's clothes is very creepy.

Starfire likes dick.

As in, Dick Grayson.

@Vitacura said:

@vernierhawk001: Nothing in that interaction talks about people moving on, it says that Starfire is a big liar and that Dick has 0 interest in talk with Jason because it's not of his business. It was nothing like Dick passing Robin to Tim.

Also if Starfire remembers Dick and is in a point where she can't even talk with him, the fact that she is making Jason using Dick's clothes is very creepy.

Considering Jason now knows all about Dick and Kori's relationship to the point that he can make objective judgements about how much he thought of her at any given piont, I'd say yeah, pretty creepy.

@Vitacura: Yep, but i remember in some issues in RHATO... she remember somebody who was really important to her, but she didn't remember it all. I think her memory issue was true, at least in a little part, but she take that and exagerate it in order to stop people for asking questions, because she remembers how she loved that person a lot, but also remember it caused her a lot of pain, so she didn't wanted to face it. Meh, i don't know, nothing really give us a good explination, we can only guess. Lobdell's fault. But you made some... good points.

@JakeN7 said:

@Munsu said:

Welcome to the wonderful world of Scott Lobdell and his complete disregard for a character's personality. Honestly, his mischaracterization has branched out to Jason, Tim, Superman, and now Dick (although Jason's change was for the better IMO.) It's no wonder they stopped letting him write the dialogue on Teen Titans.

Agree :/

Lobdell is just ruining continuity and he enjoys it.

@TDK_1997 said:

Lobdell is just ruining continuity and he enjoys it.

It's N52, surely he's creating continuity?

@Backflip said:

@TDK_1997 said:

Lobdell is just ruining continuity and he enjoys it.

It's N52, surely he's creating continuity?

By ruining everything that was good about the characters.

@TDK_1997 said:

@Backflip said:

@TDK_1997 said:

Lobdell is just ruining continuity and he enjoys it.

It's N52, surely he's creating continuity?

By ruining everything that was good about the characters.

Everything? That's a pretty bold statement.

Personally I like what he's doing with the Outlaws, and personally I don't think all the stick lies with Lobdell, I imagine many initiatives he's had to implement are executive orders from the upper echelons. Lobdell isn't purposefully trying to crucify our memories of these beloved characters, he's just trying his best with the unenviable position he's in.

@Backflip said:

@TDK_1997 said:

@Backflip said:

@TDK_1997 said:

Lobdell is just ruining continuity and he enjoys it.

It's N52, surely he's creating continuity?

By ruining everything that was good about the characters.

Everything? That's a pretty bold statement.

Personally I like what he's doing with the Outlaws, and personally I don't think all the stick lies with Lobdell, I imagine many initiatives he's had to implement are executive orders from the upper echelons. Lobdell isn't purposefully trying to crucify our memories of these beloved characters, he's just trying his best with the unenviable position he's in.

Well what he did with Tim Drake was just right in my heart.He ruined him and the Teen Titans.

@TDK_1997: Ah. Actually... Yeah. R.I.P Tim "The greatest Robin" Drake.

I concede, Tim's been a trainwreck.

@Backflip said:

@TDK_1997: Ah. Actually... Yeah. R.I.P Tim "The greatest Robin" Drake.

I concede, Tim's been a trainwreck.

I don't know why he did that to him.

@TDK_1997: Whats so wrong with Tim? I don't see a problem with him.

@ULTRAstarkiller: He was never Robin,he's real name is not Tim Drake and his parents are not dead.What do you see that is okay with him?

@TDK_1997 said:

@ULTRAstarkiller: He was never Robin,he's real name is not Tim Drake and his parents are not dead.What do you see that is okay with him?

He's also kind of arrogant and he's an olympic athlete (as opposed to a normal if Super Smart kid).

@Backflip said:

@TDK_1997 said:

@Backflip said:

@TDK_1997 said:

Lobdell is just ruining continuity and he enjoys it.

It's N52, surely he's creating continuity?

By ruining everything that was good about the characters.

Everything? That's a pretty bold statement.

Personally I like what he's doing with the Outlaws, and personally I don't think all the stick lies with Lobdell, I imagine many initiatives he's had to implement are executive orders from the upper echelons. Lobdell isn't purposefully trying to crucify our memories of these beloved characters, he's just trying his best with the unenviable position he's in.

When much rage was had over the characterisation of Starfire in issue 1, he never brought up editors or stuff like that. Only that he wanted her to have even less clothes on buut the editors told him to tone it back in tiny bit. And the fact that no previous Teen Titans existed and that Red Hood kinda had to be part of the Batfamily probably wasn't his decision, that doesn't excuse all of it.

Jason going from not having met Kory before to commenting on how little Dick cared for her back in the day, Kory and Jason acknowledging Dick, but Roy his former best friend (especially now that everyone else is out of the continuity) not caring one bit, having kory say that she NEVER had platonic friends before and in spite of their title of Outlaws Superman, Nightwing, Teen Titans and friggin' Batman all having absolutely no problem with their methods is probably ALL Lobdell. And yeah, that doesn't even get started on Tim.

@TDK_1997: WOW I had no ides he was never robin the f*ck. But in death in the family didn't joker dress him in his old robin suit.

@ULTRAstarkiller: Well,he was a guy that called himself Red Robin from the start and the beginning his costume looked a little bit like a Robin costume.

@Vitacura said:

I think that's closure enough, now let's move on and never talk about it again. Those connections are already dead, buried and rotten thanks to Lobdell, who shouldn't write Nightwing ever again because he doesn't know how.

Lol. I thought Dick being more withdrawn was natural given the recent circumstances. Everyone is saying "But that's not grayson...he never stays down for long". True. But he just lost essentially everything important to him in the space of 24 hours (I think his DOTF run in Nightwing all took place in a nigth). I maintain that he lost more than any of the other characters in DoTF unless Damian had a really good run. I had other probems with the scene. Why was Dick there in the first place? And in costume? For a broken up family a lot of the "boys" were there together.

P.S. while I do think Dick's reaction may have been understandable, I do agree with you that the dialogue came out wrong. In keeping with grayson's character I think he should have sounded a little more pained but "I can't deal with this right now" and less jaded and angry. Plus, Jason's comment about Dick not realizing how amazing of a girl Kori was..........how on earth did he draw that conclusion?!

P.P.S. bruce let the Outlaws on his complex.....reallly???? -_____- Its stupid stuff like that that is trainwreckish. Can't say I have enjoyed many (if any) of Mr. Lobdell's contributions to the N52 regarding the batfamily.

@DurararaFTW said:

@Backflip said:

@TDK_1997 said:

@Backflip said:

@TDK_1997 said:

Lobdell is just ruining continuity and he enjoys it.

It's N52, surely he's creating continuity?

By ruining everything that was good about the characters.

Everything? That's a pretty bold statement.

Personally I like what he's doing with the Outlaws, and personally I don't think all the stick lies with Lobdell, I imagine many initiatives he's had to implement are executive orders from the upper echelons. Lobdell isn't purposefully trying to crucify our memories of these beloved characters, he's just trying his best with the unenviable position he's in.

When much rage was had over the characterisation of Starfire in issue 1, he never brought up editors or stuff like that. Only that he wanted her to have even less clothes on buut the editors told him to tone it back in tiny bit. And the fact that no previous Teen Titans existed and that Red Hood kinda had to be part of the Batfamily probably wasn't his decision, that doesn't excuse all of it.

Jason going from not having met Kory before to commenting on how little Dick cared for her back in the day, Kory and Jason acknowledging Dick, but Roy his former best friend (especially now that everyone else is out of the continuity) not caring one bit, having kory say that she NEVER had platonic friends before and in spite of their title of Outlaws Superman, Nightwing, Teen Titans and friggin' Batman all having absolutely no problem with their methods is probably ALL Lobdell. And yeah, that doesn't even get started on Tim.

Wow....he said Dick didn't care about Kori????!!! So lame. Is it just me or does it seem like he really has something against grayson. When you go out of your way to give all of Dick's past associates and relationships to another character and then demonize him as a charcter in a move that flys in the face of everything else that is known abotu Dick Grayson..............smh

@vernierhawk001 Pretty much. Honestly, how is Dick supposed to be acting at this point in his life? He's lost everything he's been working for, has basically no friends, has trust issues with his "father", and now his "brother/son" is dead. Jason Todd acting like he has any right to judge Dick is laughable, and the comment about not knowing how amazing Kori is came completely out of left field, from a kid who's known her for like a year.