The Batman movie confirmed to have Catwoman, the Penguin, Firefly, and the Riddler.

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#1 Posted by Aros001 (3696 posts) - - Show Bio

https://thegww.com/exclusive-matt-reeves-the-batman-to-feature-the-riddler-penguin-catwoman-confirmed/

Apparently, director Matt Reeves is confirmed to be looking for actors to fill the roles of Catwoman, the Penguin, Firefly, and the Riddler for his upcoming solo Batman movie, starring ‘High Life’ star Robert Pattinson as Batman (likely a younger version than in BvS and JL).

Normally such a big roster of villains would make me nervous, as the Spider-Man movies tried and failed twice to make it work. But The Batman (which is the movie's current working title) has been reported that it'll be more of a detective noir rather than action blockbuster, and in that case I think multiple villains/antagonists can work just fine. Even just a simple "Who done it?" murder mystery could work great for a Batman movie and justify multiple villains without shafting any of them.

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#2 Posted by Morpheus_ (34669 posts) - - Show Bio

This will either be something unique, or a complete disaster. I'd also like to see an effectively crafted mystery in a Batman film.

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#3 Posted by KingOfWakanda (2717 posts) - - Show Bio

Needs more villains

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#4 Posted by Wolfrazer (16391 posts) - - Show Bio

So long as it's not an origin movie. I mean we've had enough of those to last forever...

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#5 Posted by the_stegman (40322 posts) - - Show Bio

Could be Long Halloween or something similar to it, where villains only get minor roles on Batman's journey to the truth.

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#6 Posted by ArranVid (2667 posts) - - Show Bio

Meh they should've had different villains perhaps. Catwoman & Penguin already came together in one of the Michael Keaton films and Riddler came in the Val Kilmer one. At least there's a new one...Firefly...who I used to like a lot when I was a teen reading some DC comics. What about Clayface? Killer Croc? Dr. Hugo Strange? Man-Bat? others?

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#7 Posted by mrmonster (15998 posts) - - Show Bio

Could be Long Halloween or something similar to it, where villains only get minor roles on Batman's journey to the truth.

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#8 Posted by GeorgeWBush (12511 posts) - - Show Bio

DC pointlessly shoehorning a ton of villains without any plot details to suggest this will be an intricate storyline. The only reason I’m even slightly curious about this is because of Matt’s success with the Planet of the Apes reboot

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#9 Posted by Ready_4_Madness (17244 posts) - - Show Bio

@georgewbush: DC aren’t pointlessly shoehorning villains, this is the story Matt Reeves wants to tell.

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#10 Posted by Ready_4_Madness (17244 posts) - - Show Bio

The Riddler! 🙌🏾

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#11 Posted by GeorgeWBush (12511 posts) - - Show Bio

@ready_4_madness: Which he had to get approved by the Warner executives before it got green lighted.

As capable of a filmmaker as he is I’ll reserve judgement until we see the final product

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#12 Posted by PhantomRant (1435 posts) - - Show Bio

okay lets go

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#13 Posted by IndomitableRegal (16610 posts) - - Show Bio

But they already did Catwoman, Penguin, and Riddler before. Firefly is the only new character (unless we count Gotham). I'm getting more and more worried about this. I really hope I'm wrong.

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#14 Posted by Aros001 (3696 posts) - - Show Bio

But they already did Catwoman, Penguin, and Riddler before. Firefly is the only new character (unless we count Gotham). I'm getting more and more worried about this. I really hope I'm wrong.

What's the problem with reusing some villains again? Yeah, Batman has many other rogues but it's not like we're reusing Joker again. Penguin and Riddler have only be used once before and those version were actually pretty different from how they are in the comics. Catwoman is the only one I think might be unneeded, but we'll see what happens.

I'm curious what other villains you might have been hoping for? Black Mask will be in the Birds of Prey movie and I'm actually glad Deathstroke got dropped as The Batman's main villain, as I much prefer him as a Titans antagonist to a Batman antagonist.

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#15 Posted by PenguinDust (9385 posts) - - Show Bio
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#16 Posted by IndomitableRegal (16610 posts) - - Show Bio

@aros001 said:
@indomitableregal said:

But they already did Catwoman, Penguin, and Riddler before. Firefly is the only new character (unless we count Gotham). I'm getting more and more worried about this. I really hope I'm wrong.

What's the problem with reusing some villains again? Yeah, Batman has many other rogues but it's not like we're reusing Joker again. Penguin and Riddler have only be used once before and those version were actually pretty different from how they are in the comics. Catwoman is the only one I think might be unneeded, but we'll see what happens.

I'm curious what other villains you might have been hoping for? Black Mask will be in the Birds of Prey movie and I'm actually glad Deathstroke got dropped as The Batman's main villain, as I much prefer him as a Titans antagonist to a Batman antagonist.

Batman has an extensive rogues gallery. What's the point in rebooting and starting with the same characters again? Michelle Pfeiffer, Halle Berry, Anne Hathaway, and Camren Bicondova. Honestly don't need another Catwoman atm. Actually, if I'm gonna count Camren, I might as well say Penguin and Riddler have been done twice, and Firefly once.

Would've loved to see Deathstroke vs. Batman. He's a villain that hasn't made it to the big screen, his casting was spot on imo, and it likely would've meant we finally got a Batman that looked like a martial artist. But apart from that, my number one request for years now has been Man-Bat. Leaning Batman slightly more towards horror could be a cool, unique direction (this could also work with characters like Clayface, Killer Croc, Ventriloquist, Pyg, etc.). What about characters like Lady Shiva, Anarky, Hush, David Cain, KGBeast, Calendar Man, etc.? There are A LOT of options, and in the end, they re-used villains (except for Firefly).

Oh, and I want another Joker. Again. Because it's Joker. I don't think Leto left the best impression (and I don't care much about the upcoming Joker movie).

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#17 Edited by Ready_4_Madness (17244 posts) - - Show Bio

@georgewbush: but that’s not WB shoehorning the villains if that’s the directors vision.

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#18 Posted by KingOfWakanda (2717 posts) - - Show Bio

@Penguin-Dust: Nice.

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#19 Posted by FangDaNerd (1663 posts) - - Show Bio

Add 20 more while you're at it

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#20 Posted by mrmonster (15998 posts) - - Show Bio

But they already did Catwoman, Penguin, and Riddler before. Firefly is the only new character (unless we count Gotham). I'm getting more and more worried about this. I really hope I'm wrong.

What are you talking about, Riddler has never been used in a Batman movie...is what I tell myself everytime I try to forget that Jim Carrey once botched played The Riddler.

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#21 Posted by IndomitableRegal (16610 posts) - - Show Bio

@indomitableregal said:

But they already did Catwoman, Penguin, and Riddler before. Firefly is the only new character (unless we count Gotham). I'm getting more and more worried about this. I really hope I'm wrong.

What are you talking about, Riddler has never been used in a Batman movie...is what I tell myself everytime I try to forget that Jim Carrey once botched played The Riddler.

Lol. I'm sorry, man. My mistake. The only live action Riddler was the one from Gotham. It's about time we got a movie version. For the first time. Ever.

For what it's worth, I didn't like Two-Face in that movie. Where he was the only villain. Because there was no Riddler. >_>

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#22 Posted by entropy_aegis (20909 posts) - - Show Bio

Two-Face is also heavily rumored as is Mad Hatter. Apparantely they dropped Bane and Scarecrow in favor of the former.

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#23 Posted by Morpheus_ (34669 posts) - - Show Bio

Two-Face is also heavily rumored as is Mad Hatter. Apparantely they dropped Bane and Scarecrow in favor of the former.

I can't say I'd be thrilled to have the Hatter and Penguin in the same film. Terribly dated characters.

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#24 Posted by ANTHP2000 (28785 posts) - - Show Bio

This will either be something unique, or a complete disaster. I'd also like to see an effectively crafted mystery in a Batman film.

They said that's what it's going to be, it'll focus on Batman as a detective in his earlier years.

And I agree with your statement.

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#25 Posted by entropy_aegis (20909 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

Two-Face is also heavily rumored as is Mad Hatter. Apparantely they dropped Bane and Scarecrow in favor of the former.

I can't say I'd be thrilled to have the Hatter and Penguin in the same film. Terribly dated characters.

Well, I just dont see them being the main villains. If these rumors turn out to be true then I suspect Riddler will be the main villain and Firefly will be the secondary villain for action related stuff.

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#26 Posted by DayWalker98 (307 posts) - - Show Bio

I doubt Deathstroke would be a good idea anyways considering it’s a younger version of Batman.

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#27 Edited by OrangeBat (974 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, this has disaster in the making written all over it. It took them thing long to even cast the main role and they don't even have all the villains planned out yet?

And seriously, freaking Penguin? LOL.

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#28 Posted by ITouchedTheBoat (3428 posts) - - Show Bio

I have confidence in this movie

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#29 Posted by Aros001 (3696 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, this has disaster in the making written all over it. It took them thing long to even cast the main role and they don't even have all the villains planned out yet?

And seriously, freaking Penguin? LOL.

The current planned release date for The Batman is June 25, 2021. That's two years from now and plenty of time to get the movie cast and filmed with time to spare for editing and reshoots. Many DC and Marvel movies get made in far less time. And if Wonder Woman 1984 getting its date pushed back is any indication, WB is willing to give the filmmakers more time if they need it, especially after JL did so badly after they rushed the production and didn't push back the date.

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#30 Edited by entropy_aegis (20909 posts) - - Show Bio

Now Hugo Strange has been rumored again and Bane and Scarecrow are back in contention...WTF is going on here?

We basically have three line ups so far if we stick to the 6 villain theory

Penguin, Catwoman, Scarecrow, Riddler, Bane, Two-Face (?)

Penguin, Catwoman, Riddler, Firefly, Mad Hatter, Two-Face

Penguin, Catwoman, Firefly, Scarecrow, Bane, Hugo Strange

So I'm guessing Penguin and Catwoman are almost a lock since they're in every rumor, then we have Riddler and Firefly who are strong candidates. Two-Face and Mad Hatter are tied with Bane and Scarecrow but I think the former have slightly better chances. Hugo just came out of nowhere.

Ofcourse it could be the studio messing around by leaking false information.

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#31 Posted by entropy_aegis (20909 posts) - - Show Bio

@aros001 said:
@indomitableregal said:

But they already did Catwoman, Penguin, and Riddler before. Firefly is the only new character (unless we count Gotham). I'm getting more and more worried about this. I really hope I'm wrong.

What's the problem with reusing some villains again? Yeah, Batman has many other rogues but it's not like we're reusing Joker again. Penguin and Riddler have only be used once before and those version were actually pretty different from how they are in the comics. Catwoman is the only one I think might be unneeded, but we'll see what happens.

I'm curious what other villains you might have been hoping for? Black Mask will be in the Birds of Prey movie and I'm actually glad Deathstroke got dropped as The Batman's main villain, as I much prefer him as a Titans antagonist to a Batman antagonist.

Batman has an extensive rogues gallery. What's the point in rebooting and starting with the same characters again? Michelle Pfeiffer, Halle Berry, Anne Hathaway, and Camren Bicondova. Honestly don't need another Catwoman atm. Actually, if I'm gonna count Camren, I might as well say Penguin and Riddler have been done twice, and Firefly once.

Would've loved to see Deathstroke vs. Batman. He's a villain that hasn't made it to the big screen, his casting was spot on imo, and it likely would've meant we finally got a Batman that looked like a martial artist. But apart from that, my number one request for years now has been Man-Bat. Leaning Batman slightly more towards horror could be a cool, unique direction (this could also work with characters like Clayface, Killer Croc, Ventriloquist, Pyg, etc.). What about characters like Lady Shiva, Anarky, Hush, David Cain, KGBeast, Calendar Man, etc.? There are A LOT of options, and in the end, they re-used villains (except for Firefly).

Oh, and I want another Joker. Again. Because it's Joker. I don't think Leto left the best impression (and I don't care much about the upcoming Joker movie).

It doesn't really work like that, I mean if YOU had the chance to work on Batman would you use Joker, Riddler, Penguin, Catwoman, Two-Face, Mr Freeze, Bane, Ra's al Ghul, Scarecrow and Poison Ivy or Hush, David Cain, KGBeast, Man-Bat and Calendar Man? its a no brainer really.

Besides Penguin and Riddler haven't appeared in decades nor have Freeze and Ivy. I can get being not particularly excited about Joker, the al Ghuls, Bane and Catwoman out of fatigue but the others not so much.

Frankly speaking I dont think any Batman director is going to use Calendar Man, David Cain and Lady Shiva in a VERY long time. CGI characters are also tricky and are likely to be avoided than used especially if there are other options so that limits Croc, Clayface and Man-Bat. Anarky isn't even a villain and he was a mouth piece for Alan Grant's political views. Hush also sucks anyway.

I can however see them using Hugo Strange, Professor Pyg and Court of Owls down the road. But dont be surprised if every Batman movie in the future features at least one of the 10 classics I noted .

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#32 Edited by IndomitableRegal (16610 posts) - - Show Bio

@indomitableregal said:
@aros001 said:
@indomitableregal said:

But they already did Catwoman, Penguin, and Riddler before. Firefly is the only new character (unless we count Gotham). I'm getting more and more worried about this. I really hope I'm wrong.

What's the problem with reusing some villains again? Yeah, Batman has many other rogues but it's not like we're reusing Joker again. Penguin and Riddler have only be used once before and those version were actually pretty different from how they are in the comics. Catwoman is the only one I think might be unneeded, but we'll see what happens.

I'm curious what other villains you might have been hoping for? Black Mask will be in the Birds of Prey movie and I'm actually glad Deathstroke got dropped as The Batman's main villain, as I much prefer him as a Titans antagonist to a Batman antagonist.

Batman has an extensive rogues gallery. What's the point in rebooting and starting with the same characters again? Michelle Pfeiffer, Halle Berry, Anne Hathaway, and Camren Bicondova. Honestly don't need another Catwoman atm. Actually, if I'm gonna count Camren, I might as well say Penguin and Riddler have been done twice, and Firefly once.

Would've loved to see Deathstroke vs. Batman. He's a villain that hasn't made it to the big screen, his casting was spot on imo, and it likely would've meant we finally got a Batman that looked like a martial artist. But apart from that, my number one request for years now has been Man-Bat. Leaning Batman slightly more towards horror could be a cool, unique direction (this could also work with characters like Clayface, Killer Croc, Ventriloquist, Pyg, etc.). What about characters like Lady Shiva, Anarky, Hush, David Cain, KGBeast, Calendar Man, etc.? There are A LOT of options, and in the end, they re-used villains (except for Firefly).

Oh, and I want another Joker. Again. Because it's Joker. I don't think Leto left the best impression (and I don't care much about the upcoming Joker movie).

It doesn't really work like that, I mean if YOU had the chance to work on Batman would you use Joker, Riddler, Penguin, Catwoman, Two-Face, Mr Freeze, Bane, Ra's al Ghul, Scarecrow and Poison Ivy or Hush, David Cain, KGBeast, Man-Bat and Calendar Man? its a no brainer really.

Besides Penguin and Riddler haven't appeared in decades nor have Freeze and Ivy. I can get being not particularly excited about Joker, the al Ghuls, Bane and Catwoman out of fatigue but the others not so much.

Frankly speaking I dont think any Batman director is going to use Calendar Man, David Cain and Lady Shiva in a VERY long time. CGI characters are also tricky and are likely to be avoided than used especially if there are other options so that limits Croc, Clayface and Man-Bat. Anarky isn't even a villain and he was a mouth piece for Alan Grant's political views. Hush also sucks anyway.

I can however see them using Hugo Strange, Professor Pyg and Court of Owls down the road. But dont be surprised if every Batman movie in the future features at least one of the 10 classics I noted .

You can't speak to what I would do. I wouldn't make an argument for using someone new if I wouldn't do the same in that position. For one, let's be honest, Batman alone is such a huge draw that it doesn't really matter who the villains are. Any A, B, or even C list villain works, but crafting a good story and making a good film are much more important (e.g. Batman Begins, Iron Man, or Spider-Man 2 vs. Batman Forever, Batman and Robin, or Spider-Man 3). And to answer the "no brainer", Man-Bat. I would use Man-Bat.

You also have to take Gotham into account, because that just finished not even 2 months ago, and Riddler, Penguin, and Catwoman (or if you just wanna say Selina) were prominent roles for all 5 seasons. Anyone who watched the show has been seeing them for the last 5 years straight.

Some of the characters I named aren't people I would look at to carry a film as the only villain. But in this scenario, there are 4 or more villains in the film (and at least 3 of them have been used already). And I don't see CGI as a problem at all considering the stupidly high budget the DC/WB movies get. Even if you eliminate Deathstroke because this is supposedly a younger Batman, or eliminate Anarky and Hush because...you don't like them I guess, that leaves a ton of characters that can be primary, secondary, or tertiary villains, with minimal use of the same antagonists.

I think the Court could happen, but they'd have to be way down the line imo. I think Gotham made a huge mistake by using them how they did.

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#33 Posted by entropy_aegis (20909 posts) - - Show Bio

@indomitableregal: No but I can make reasonable assumption about the average fan's preferences based on the villains they've been exposed to from movies, shows, games,animation and the well known Batman comics.

It absolutely matters who the villains are. Villains have been a huge draw in Batman films and Warner would want an explosive opening for the franchise after the Affleck f*ck up.

A show like Gotham doesn't come close to matching the reach of a big budget Hollywood blockbuster, not even close.

CGI has been a major problem in the DC films. I guess you've already forgotten turd Doomsday, CGI man Ares, Superman's face and that pukeworthy demon in Suicide Squad but I haven't. Even Disney who have managed to snatch the best companies have slipped up on occassion(Black Panther final fight).

I'd rather they stay clear of characters that would require CGI.

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#34 Posted by TheInsufferable (2883 posts) - - Show Bio

Isn't that a bit ... too many?

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#35 Posted by Aros001 (3696 posts) - - Show Bio

Isn't that a bit ... too many?

It'll all depend on how they're used. The movie is apparently supposed to be more of a detective Noir instead of a big action blockbuster like the previous Batman movies. So it's possible having so many villains appearing could work if they're there mostly just as part of Batman trying to solve a mystery and not actually fighting them. At the very least Penguin and Riddler are not typically physical threats to Batman but are significant in many other ways.

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#36 Posted by StealthGrey (368 posts) - - Show Bio

Clayface should make live-action debut

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