I nothing will ever be the same !!!

"Nothing will ever be the same" the kind of tagline anyone familiar with comic sees at least once a year from either of the big big 2. Any event is supposedly so earth shattering that you ve got to buy it lest you would never be able to understand the new world...

except nothing lasts, any of those change is all the more precarious than it s bold : new 52 was supposed to be the new paradigm and pandora the overpowerful mastermind until it wasnt and she was shot like a redshirt in a cheap star trek serial, batman became an organization of crime fighter, batman is gordon in a giant rabbit cosplay robot,otto is the new spiderman, and latest bomb captain america has been hydra all along. They re change for the sake of change - to shake things up just enough to make readers yearn for same old routine. As once famously said “If we want things to stay as they are, things will have to change”

But even worse. Not only are those change stupidly out of character, not only do they barely last a few month but ultimately they dont bring anything to the table.One could argue that breaking Batman s back at least gave an epic retraining and it was very much in character, reminding the exceptional will of Batman and what he had to go through to become Batman - how crazy in the first place it was to jump every night in the void.

II Once upon a time...

But once upon a time, not only was there a meaning in those trial but they STICKED.When Joker shot Barbara s spine, gone was Batgirl leaving place to the Oracle. When the Joker killed Jason it became a failure that would keep haunting Batman for the rest of his days - and although technically Red Hood arrival might have cancelled the initial failure, his new attitude toward crime meant that nothing would ACTUALLY ever be the same. James Gordon Jr fall as a baby in Year one paid off decades later as he became a psychopath, . Lex luthor became a corrupt CEO instead of a mad scientist and stayed that way, Gwen stacy died and Mary Jane became the new love interest of Peter Parker,

One of my favorite character, Constantine cranks it up to eleven : he might have started with an already heavy past but by the end of Hellblazer run he s a tatooed old man with a beer belly, some hint of bisexuality, demon blood running in his veins, a golden twin and an evil doppledanger, his father and sister in hell and a mob lord for father-in-law (ok scratch that last part: everything related to milligan and especially epiphany is tainted - just saying right up to the end the character evolved).

New dynamic, new philosophy,.Actions had consequences, character evolved.

And frankly this is supposed to be the basis of storytelling - as famously explained in a hero s journey: at the end of the journey the protagonist has been changed by the trials and evolved into something different, hopefully better. That s what engage you in the story. Consequences. They gave the meaning to the journey. Neither Batman nor spiderman will ever destroy crime but it doesnt mean they cannot learn and change.

III where do we go from there

Frankly one of the reason I m more interested in Deathstroke and specifically the current book is because I feel Priest isnt boggled down by the past and a certain idea of the character : he can actually WRITE the character.

Now I can understand that each writer has his own idea of the character - so a new writer might scratch what has been done before not because of a corporate statu quo but just because he thinks the previous direction is wrong and doesnt fit the basis of his vision of the character. Still it speaks in my mind of poor writing : if the previous writer had written something actually good, it wouldnt be discarded that easily by the next writer. They would actually be eager to play with it. When Garth Ennis ended his run on Hellblazer, many moaned that he was selfish by purposedly taking out every characters he created except for chantinelle and the next writer brought back the First Fallen without wasting much time.. Also his anti-religious feelings sticked to the character. Same thing for Warren Ellis who in spite of a very short run gave key recurring characters like Clarice and Map and all that "magicians as a lot are bloody wankers" vibe. Even a run as maligned as Azzarello brough the bisexuality that many consider a key part of the character (which is all the more astonishing that I think it stems from a very deep misunderstanding of Azzarello story).

for batman the last meaningful change for me was Tomasi with Batman and Robin and how he created an actual father-son relationship. Morrison clearly left a dent, after all he s the one who created and brought back Damian in the first place, but his strokes are sometimes so bold they dont really last. Like he s so engaged in shaking everything things up that it eventually all fall back in place like killing Darkseid with a gun, Batman inc,etc... And what a better sign of Morrison ultimately weak impact as the very death of Damian. Although it was a team book, he had a much bigger impact on Batman with the JLA by creating the Batgod concept. In my book Tomasi filled out Damian and brought something new out of Batman, that I didnt feel even with the Robins - . Just like Joe Kelly created Deadpool and not Rob Liefeld.

for green lantern nobody can deny that Geoff Johns changed completely the character and its universe, and I dont even care about the lanterns and I really dislike Johns writing.

That s pretty much it. Everything else for me is pandora and other blue bird drivel...

With all this said, according to you when was the last time a character of DC/ his universe/ his book changed in a meaningful and lasting way??? Ideally it should coopted by another writer besides the original writer.

@ghinzdra: Well some characters were totally rebooted for the New52, they are still there in Rebirth:

• Aquaman New52
• Shazam! New52
• Wonder Woman New52
• Lobo New52 (but I heard the old one is comming back)
• Nightwing since Forever Evil, his secret Identy was revealed
• Catwoman by Ed Brubaker, she came back and joined the "good" side
• Constantine New52
• Harley Quinn New52, she's independant and has a totally new ugly look

@jb681131: I wouldn t take the reboot at face value.... remember that new 52 was supposed to be a new paradigm

- except they tried to to change the universe while keeping batman and green lantern history the same (even though it didn't make any sense, especially how you could fit so much history in such a short span of time)

-except the dirty and gritty was exactly the "out of character" approach that mostly ends up in failure. It was the "new coke" of comicbook.

- and the very "rebirth" concept was a public statement that the new 52 was a creative failure and a comeback to "classic coke". They even resumed Detective Comics and Action Comics original numbering... talk about a slap in the face for the new 52.

Now although globally the new 52 was a mess, there might have been lasting change and character development but they must be pinpointed.

• Aquaman New52 : OK/ON THE FENCE I don't know the character well enough - For a while I read the book with some interest but I didnt keep up very long. For I what know the new continuity has been kept mostly intact - Althought I have to ask what are the key difference between the new Aquaman and the old Aquaman, besides the new aquaman being young( he even seems to have the beard back judging from the cover)?
• Shazam! New52 NO - Is there even a book for Shazam ? there were backend stories in the Justice League book. And to what extent can we actually say that there was a meaningful change ? he behaved like a ill mannered brat. Did it really stick or is he mostly good mannered now ? and if it sticked what did they make of this new angle ???
• Wonder Woman New52 NO/ON THE FENCE- from I heard Rucka cancelled most of what Azzarello wrote/stated that his Daughter of Zeus origin is wrong and the classic is the real one. So what's left ?
• Lobo New52 (but I heard the old one is coming back) NO No book and the new Lobo is utterly despised by the fans. He s a walking dead man. You said yourself the old one is rumored to be coming back.
• Nightwing NO/ON THE FENCE The Spyral angle was fresh but he's back at being Nighwing. What changed ? his identity is public ? what difference did it make ?
• Catwoman by Ed Brubaker, she came back and joined the "good" side. OK
• Constantine New52 HELL NO 3rd book. 3rd book in 5 years while Hellblazer ran for 25 years. First one was a superhero drama that scrapped most of what made Constantine unique and made it a very generic book : it was so superhero based that there even was a team the JL dark attempt ( Althought I have a soft spot for the JL Dark book : flawed at it may be, it was interesting as it raised the question of how well can Constantine play in a team, what kind of leadership a weasel can display ). Secund one seemed to scrap the first book. It was closer to the mark in that they massively toned down the superhero antics and brought back the horror feeling while trying something new with new characters, making him NY based and pursuing a gay relationship but it wasn't exactly a home run . I tried the 3rd one : it's not exactly garbage but it really feels like a tepid warmed up broth of what the character used to be (london, chas, swamp thing,etc..). Taking him out of Vertigo to put it in DC was as stupid as putting Watchmen in the DC mix .As far as I'm concerned, Constantine is the biggest fuckup of the entire DC lineup.
• Harley Quinn New52, she's independant and has a totally new ugly look OK can't say I'm a big Harley Quinn fan. But she s grown into a character of her own with several books and was made the star of a team movie. So they must have done something right.

Feel free to point out what make the change stick. I might be wrong as I don't necessarly read deeply all those characters.

Superman's son will be a mainstay for years to come.

Jessica Cruz and Simon Baz are continuing to get DC's full commitment.

Batwoman is a permanent fixture in Gotham.

Spyral and Morrison's mythos are recurring elements in Nightwing. Spyral also plays a role in Birds of Prey.

Batgirl still has Burnside and her YA direction.

The younger Wally West hasn't been cast aside, playing major roles in The Flash, Teen Titans, and soon-to-be Deathstroke.

That's more like it.

After the TT, Deathstroke, and Titans crossover Wally (original) has a pacemaker due to what Damian did to him in the past.

@seagod: The lazarus contract is barely out... let's wait on this one... if classic Wally still has a pacemaker in at least 2 years from now and more specifically at least one other author is able to spin something out of this, it will be up to discussion. Putting Barbara in a wheelchair is probably one of the most bold and successful move in comic history but it was far from being a shoe in .

@ghinzdra: just went to the one I remember the most since it just came out.

I get it and I certainly don't want to strangle suggestions... "Ideally" I think anything brought up should at least have 2 years of existence and an additional writer besides the original to be considered a lasting change. But there s some potential in the pacemaker idea depending on how they write it.

I know Jason Todd did

@kgb725: Jason Todd is a classic. He s the Bucky of DC. Those two maybe the only 2 big death and resurrection handled relatively well. Their death weren't cheapened. Yes he is definetely a lasting change.

But frankly I'm disappointed with the direction they're currently taking with him. The anti-batman of "under the red hood"/lost days (minus the talia subplot) was much more interesting than the current Jason Todd. They massively toned down the change. He s been downgraded to being the bad boy with a heart of gold of the Bat-family which is almost back to square one. They're selling him massively short. Morrison was as usual a little bit too out there but the anti-villain vibe was much more interesting.

He's been killed by a madman and brought back and he doesn't even know why (yes everybody knows about the infamous superboy prime reality punch but that's not the point : jason todd doesn't know) . There s a huge crisis of faith at the heart of the character. That should be the starting point of anything for Jason Todd. There were several options available going from crazy hardcore vigilante (the morrison take ) to something like a mystical investigator somewhere between Hellboy and Batwoman .

@ghinzdra: Jason found out why he came back in the original Outlaws book. He was destined to save the world from The Untitled as the last member of The All-Caste. Jason has come to terms with his death and at this point, it's the better route to take him down.

@scouterv:

As for how redhood and the outlaws answers the whole "comeback from the dead" stuff, I couldn't disagree more. My answer being on the long side, if you don't have the time or the patience, you can skip straight to the end that I put in bold characters.

* First of all - the global quality of the materal : everyone and his sister has criticized original rhato.

And from what I read, the new rhato isn't either exactly "secret six" level. It still has been getting some great review mostly because of the obvious improvement over the original. That s how bad it was. I guess in their mind it was supposed to be some sort of edgy modern mix between the teen titans and suicide squad. However it s cliche after cliche : buddy comedy filled with hollywood one-liners and starfire playing the role of the local bike. So saying anything about how Jason Tood should proceed in his secund life based on that is quite questionable to say the least considering the global quality of the materal.

• Now let's get in the specifics of how this untitled thing fit with the whole "jason coming back from the dead" mystery - the alleged answer is laughably disconnected from the character.

- so the heiress of a super ninja group which is trying to take over the world has access to a caste of a millenar superbeing but never used it herself.

First time they ever mentionned this. Granted it's the new 52 but still... you would think something this big would have popped up in the league of shadow discussions beforehand... Also next time ras al ghul try to take over the world, they might try to make better use of their contacts. This is the kind of people that might come handy.

- she brings for training a failed robin to said millenar superbeing caste who takes him in immediatly althought they re supposedly rather selective.

.when I said failed robin let's get specific : this guy got his ass kicked by approximately everyone but tim drake (yeah I know he doesnt get to meet tim drake before his death but you get my point.). He s a jobber who is only good for taking out goons and C-list villains. And on top of that he has a terrible attitude and insult the old lady welcoming him (Now you could say that that other character displayed a somehow less than professional attitude - damian is also a brat of the first order but he is actually 10 years old... Oh and a side note he kicked Jason ass. Yeah even a 10 year old. And it took place after the all-caste training- that's to tell you how bad Jad is BEFORE the training). As a proof of both his piss-poor work attitude and his jobber level,granny kicked his ass within the first minute of their first meeting in approximately 10 seconds. Now in anyplace worth anything, real or fictional, after such a pahethic display, your ass would be on its way out in a new york minute. Apparently not at the all-caste because granny reaction is more like "boy. I gotta get me one of those!!!" Did I mention he was supposedly the first human they took in in over 100 years ? I don't mean to insult the ancient but you ve got to admit the obvious : their HR departement suck.

- Apparently their training wasn't that interesting or it was the Assimil method because Jason left them after roughly a year- a year and a half.

It's a millenar school of super assassin but apparently you graduate faster than from technical college. You know JD the kinda talented but dysfonctional intern of scrubs ? Cox had to kick his ass during 6 years to make a somehow acceptable doctor out of of him. But that shit ain't for my boy Jason.

- Now the all-caste has been fighting a millenar evil " the untitled".to keep it short, Essence,a former lover of his all-caste days appears out of the blue to tell him how the untitled slaughtered the equally millenar all-caste. But Jason my boy, who got his ass kicked in 10 seconds flat by granny and dropped off after a year, is going to avenge them. RIIIIIIIIIIGHT. Let's move on.

- Essence turns out to be the traitor. Jason deduces she s the traitor on their secund meeting. Take that John Le Carre : Smiley ain't got shit on Jason. Oh also she's the daughter of his beloved granny. And granny/essence are related to the family that became the untitled. Just because. Don't sweat it.

- I'm going to stop there because this stuff is way too deep - BTW did I mention that all this was revealed in the first arc ? 7 issues - 4 or 5 of them being mostly smart ass lines, starfire showing off her rack/sleeping with the boys, mindless action including things completely unrelated like a trip to HK, showing they are cool kids and trying to create a superficial bond between the three of them. Most of the Untitled millenar stuff fits into two small issues.

- Fast forward to the end, Jason is in a battle with the Untitled. And after beating them, he's proposed to recreate the all-caste. You know the millenar secret cult that he dropped from after a year.

Now I d like to understand : How is this is supposed to answer why he s back ????and most importantly : at what point does the average reader realize the writing of RHAO is roughly at the level of a fan fiction of fifty shades of grey (the shitty work based on a fan fiction of twilight, the shitty work where vampires sparkles in light)? it doesn't even come remotely close to a satisfactory answer to why he's back. For argument s sake, let s acknowledge the all-caste stuff (a bond so deep that it had to wait after his death to be formed and that he dropped the geezers after a year )/that he had to come back to wipe out the untitled (that have absolutely nothing to do with his death but nevermind) and somehow consider it s an answer to why- it doesn't answer how. If I come back from dead, I m going to need better than "you were the chosen one".

Compare this to Lost days and the maelstrom of emotion Jason is going through : confusion, pain, rage toward Batman, and finally stern resolution and cold calculation. The book spends 6 COMPLETE ISSUES on the SOLE issue of Jason STARTING to process the meaning of his new lease on life. At no point does Jason get a properly packed explanation on why he came back from the dead let alone how. He has to figure this out by himself. He keep making plan and changing his mind several times during the book until he finally settles on something. There s no hyper-duper explosive revelation : No fancy secret sect, no prophecy, no millenar evil that conveniently falls right into his lap after his resurrection. It's good old-fashioned soul searching stemming directly from the sum of everything that preceded his fall. And I wouldn't even dare to say that after about 150 pages he has an answer. Mostly a goal that MIGHT possibly bring a tentative feeling of closure. And if you read "under the red hood" you know he's way far from being okay at the end.

CONCLUSION

Long story short: ROATH is anything but an acceptable direction for the secund life of Jason.It completely fails to get deep in the bones of the character, what makes him unique. It's a massive drop in quality over under the red hood/lost days. And I can't imagine how possibly Jason could come to term with his death based on this drivel let alone how this is the better route for the character ???Batman took decades in universe to process the death of his parents before finding a path. And dramatic as it may have been it still comes in the realm of the explainable and "shit happens" (a huge fat shit I'll give you that). A single issue like "the man who fall" document how many trials (college, FBI, etc..) it took him before finally getting a somehow acceptable answer. Books like "year one" of regular series like "batman confidential" or "legends of the dark knight" document also the years it took before making it work. Out universe we're talking about hundred of issues.And we dont even have the paranormal aspect. If you get back from the dead, after being brutally beaten to a pulp by a madman, and don't have the first clue about the why or even the how - and nobody can offer you the beginning of an explanation or even bothered to shoot the bastard, I m expecting a little bit of soul searching.

The mystery of his resurrection and the staggering level of insanity surrounding it should be the central fact of Jason Todd new life. If X-files can milk 7 seasons out of Mulder searching the truth of his sister disappearing, a far more explainable mystery that doesnt require devoting your whole life to running after the little green men, it's not far fetched that something of this magnitude should occupy easily the next ten years of Jason's life and years of publication. Something organic - some soul searching, not some piss poor plot pulled from the ass of a dead donkey. Missing something this obvious means DC plainly doesn't understand their own character.

@ghinzdra: Well, Secret Six was fun, but hardly the grand standard of DC books. I'd argue RHaTO gets great reviews because it looks amazing, introduced the Outlaws in interesting detail and pays homage to the past while attempting to move the characters forward.

As for the mystery of the All-Caste, the reason they don't show up beforehand is the same as why Superman doesn't rescue Batman every time he's in trouble. It's not his story, just as The League of Assassins primarily interact with Batman, the All-Caste are for Jason.

And Jason having to job when he's quite capable is irrelevant, because everyone knows how to get under his skin. A flaw he worked on with Ducra, who could probably best most people. She's the master of the All-Caste. No shame in a loss to her, as a kid. And pretty sure it was noted, Jason didn't want to hurt Damian and took it easy on him.

As for the how, Lazarus Put. And you can't compare Jason and Bruce because Bruce arguably isn't over his parents death. Jason has confronted every aspect of his death. His mentor, murderer, replacement, and even the location. He's built a support system. You can't expect him to be salty over it forever. It wouldn't make a difference. Hence, moving on is the best course.

@jb681131: Pre-New52 Lobo

Was seen in Justice League vs Suïcide Squad

And he's now a member of Justice League of America (rebirth). Batman recruited him.

@ghinzdra: Simply put, Jason Todd might be one of the biggest wastes of comic book potential. Under Morrison and Winick (at times), he had a purpose, a drive, and a means of achieving that purpose. In the New 52, he's been saddled with subpar writers who turned him into a nonsensical wish fulfillment fantasy who is supposedly the world's greatest fighter after being trained off-page by a group of magical assassins that serve no in-story purpose other than to give fanboys something to froth over in "who would win" threads. Instead of having conviction to actualize his beliefs, he just spends his time internally monologuing every issue about how much he hates the Batfamily for petty reasons, and angsting over getting beaten in the desert. He uses guns because they're "cool", not because they're practical means to an end. And instead of killing to effect change, he just whines about having to follow Batman's rules.

Nearly every Aquaman creative team has used the previous run as a launching point. Parker explored the inner workings and mythology of Atlantis, and Abnett used what Johns and Parker wrote to build up the political landscape of Atlantis.

@ghinzdra: there are 2 lobo currently, one (short-hair) under possesion of larfleeze or braniac, i dont really remember, but is in GL Bottled light storyline. and one in JLA