Where's part 1? O_o

no really diggin the costume..........

I will say that a lot of my interest of the book comes from judd writing it.  at this point i have faith in his writing ability to take the chance on the book and i do kinda like the concept. 
 
that being said i agree that Egypt is definitely in the continent of Africa, but my understanding from my former relationship with an egyptian girl is that they do somewhat consider themselves part of the middle east and are influenced partial by that region.  just kinda wanted to bring up that, but like i said i am really interested in judd writing batwing

Where's part 1? O_o

Diversity for the sake of diversity is a failure on all accounts. It patronizes and insults those who it is trying to 'recruit' as if their intelligence is so low that they are tricked into enjoying a property simply because a character would share the same race. It goes on to insult those who are not represented by saying they are no longer valid. 
 
Now, had the dreaded 'D' word not been mentioned and had it been explained that Africa (and the Mid-East) is still a rather lawless section of the world governed by corruption, warlords, criminal empires, and that it more than anywhere needs a Batman, I'd be incredibly excited. Had we been introduced to a character who sees the vile elements destroying his home, the humanity of the land he loves; a character who stands up and fights the rampant evil that plagues Africa, I would be enthralled by the tale. Diversity should be a byproduct of a great story, and will never be the genesis.
 
The problem here is the fact that the entire introduction to this character so far is, "We need more PC diversity...too many white people." Hell, doesn't that feel like a slice of bigotry in itself? This is the same problem happening with the new Ultimate Spider-Man. The entire leak and introduction to the character is about the "increase of diversity". Puh-lease. 
 
Just give us interesting characters with interesting stories. Make their evolution to superhero real. Make their position as a hero real. Don't patronize your audience and insult their intelligence with this PC, "diversity" crap.

Nice interview, though i didn't watch the first part.

A thought came to my head while watching this that took over the rest of the conversation for me. "Who the HELL is going around thinking that Egypt isn't part of Africa?!" That's like saying Washington is in Canada, or that Nevada is a part of Mexico.
 
It's great they want to do diversity in the comic line up, but I don't think they are quite getting it when they are just making an African version of Batman in place of a hero with his own identity. There are enough Bat-characters as it is. Why don't they just create a completely original hero and just tie his origins into his background. 
 
There are some incredibly talented artists who come from minority backgrounds. I have to image that many of them have some great ideas for heroes that reflect their own backgrounds. It's more up to the publishers to seek those creators out and give them the opportunity to tell their stories.
Though, my favorite artist and artistic idol, Fred Perry, is a black man, but he created a series about a white-female protagonist and her family. He does have a pretty wide ethnic mix of characters for the series and uses them all to really great effect.
 
I do understand the need to talk about this issue. These things will never get cleared up if we don't talk about them.

@ClawRavenscroft said:

@VaizD said:

Where's part 1? O_o

good question.

I will say that a lot of my interest of the book comes from judd writing it.  at this point i have faith in his writing ability to take the chance on the book and i do kinda like the concept.  that being said i agree that Egypt is definitely in the continent of Africa, but my understanding from my former relationship with an egyptian girl is that they do somewhat consider themselves part of the middle east and are influenced partial by that region.  just kinda wanted to bring up that, but like i said i am really interested in judd writing batwing

@MydLyfeCrysis said:

The problem here is the fact that the entire introduction to this character so far is, "We need more PC diversity...too many white people." Hell, doesn't that feel like a slice of bigotry in itself?

Yup, especially after the many years of hardship, slavery and discrimination white people have faced throughout history. It cuts both ways, guys! God.

Seriously though, your entire post smacks of white privilege. The dreaded "D-word"? Really?

EDIT:

@true.djnw@gmail.com said:

@GraveSp said:

I will say that a lot of my interest of the book comes from judd writing it. at this point i have faith in his writing ability to take the chance on the book and i do kinda like the concept. that being said i agree that Egypt is definitely in the continent of Africa, but my understanding from my former relationship with an egyptian girl is that they do somewhat consider themselves part of the middle east and are influenced partial by that region. just kinda wanted to bring up that, but like i said i am really interested in judd writing batwing

You said that they are influenced partially by the Middle Eastern Region.... shouldn't it be the other way around since the Egyptians where kinda first..... Just say-en. Egypt is in Africa like the man said, simple as that.

The (ancient) Egyptians might have been first, but the Greeks, Romans, Byzantines and Arabs have conquered Egypt since then. The Arab identity is not derived from ancient Egypt.

Mr. Winick

  
Can we expect to see? 
 
1: the Covenant of Ka (the Assassins order that represents Scarab from the Red Robin Series--She is  is Egyptian). 
 
2: What about the League of Assassins? (Ra's al Ghul is the leader of an international league of  the world's deadliest assassins  after all) 
 
3: Will we see a supervillain equivalent of the Somali Pirates/ insurgents or some other real life militia in Africa? There was also a child soldier's group called the "Roi Lions"/ Little Lions in one of the OYL outsiders arc they would be interesting to see (Actually I think you wrote the issue).   
 
4: New Freedom Beast? (The old one Died in Justice League)
 
6: Justice League of Africa? Need I say More 
 
6: Vixen? Need I say more  

First part of the interview for those that were wondering. http://www.comicvine.com/judd-winick-dishes-out-details-on-the-new-catwoman-series/112-1590/

Ask Judd this: What do you feel about the backlash to minority characters, opposition mostly viewing it as an effort to be "PC", claims that most if not all ethnic characters are nothing more than "token" characters. What is a "token" character in your opinion? And when is making a more diverse DC/Marvel what-have-you comic-verse done for more that just the "sake of diversity?"

I do think he makes a good point about what writers should be able to write about, especially in saying how he had never been to space but wrote Green Lantern, and had never been a woman yet wrote Power Girl.  Its true, while writers may get flack for writing things that are not in tune to their own experience, I nevertheless think that shouldn't get in the way of them trying to write for a particular book.  And just like he said, would an African-American writer have a better perspective if he was to write Batwing instead of Judd?  Maybe, but also maybe not.  In the end this is all about creativity people, its not as if Batwing is a real character that one needs to have life experiences put into to make it spectacular.  Just enjoy Batwing for the fact that Winick is writing it and forget the rest!

Where's part 1? O_o

I wonder if they wanted a black hero heading a solo-book...why didn't they just use of the ones they already have? Like John Steward, Steel, Black Lightning, Vixen or Cyborg instead of falling back to the 'Batman sells' strategy? 

Diversity for the sake of diversity is a failure on all accounts. It patronizes and insults those who it is trying to 'recruit' as if their intelligence is so low that they are tricked into enjoying a property simply because a character would share the same race. It goes on to insult those who are not represented by saying they are no longer valid.   Now, had the dreaded 'D' word not been mentioned and had it been explained that Africa (and the Mid-East) is still a rather lawless section of the world governed by corruption, warlords, criminal empires, and that it more than anywhere needs a Batman, I'd be incredibly excited. Had we been introduced to a character who sees the vile elements destroying his home, the humanity of the land he loves; a character who stands up and fights the rampant evil that plagues Africa, I would be enthralled by the tale. Diversity should be a byproduct of a great story, and will never be the genesis.  The problem here is the fact that the entire introduction to this character so far is, "We need more PC diversity...too many white people." Hell, doesn't that feel like a slice of bigotry in itself? This is the same problem happening with the new Ultimate Spider-Man. The entire leak and introduction to the character is about the "increase of diversity". Puh-lease.   Just give us interesting characters with interesting stories. Make their evolution to superhero real. Make their position as a hero real. Don't patronize your audience and insult their intelligence with this PC, "diversity" crap.

@Godot: Then you are even more ignorant that your post lets on. "White privileged" is the farthest thing one would use to describe my life and assumes a hell of a lot. Further, that is an ignorant phrase used when people cannot intelligently discuss what can be a volatile topic. I hinted at no racism. Diversity is often a buzzword used to apply some kind of "street cred", or appease the PC crowd at the cost of quality. To this effect I do call it the "dreaded D-word" as it is often a harbinger of degraded quality, and heavy-handed preaching. It causes a pigeon-holing of the property that usually winds up as supercilious tripe.   Where in my post did I even hint at racism or "white privilege" when discussing diversity for diversity's sake? Was it where I defended the target minority group (of whom I could be a part of by the way) by saying that it is patronizing and an insult to the intelligence of readers? Or how about when I said that I would be reading the two books mentioned, and with optimism, only wishing they would let the stories do the talking for themselves instead of trying to induce some pathetic form of politically correct guilt upon their market? If they decided to have a white dude take up Black Panther's mantle, and in their selling of the idea tried to some crap about diversifying the hero, I'd feel just as annoyed.

I do think he makes a good point about what writers should be able to write about, especially in saying how he had never been to space but wrote Green Lantern, and had never been a woman yet wrote Power Girl.  Its true, while writers may get flack for writing things that are not in tune to their own experience, I nevertheless think that shouldn't get in the way of them trying to write for a particular book.  And just like he said, would an African-American writer have a better perspective if he was to write Batwing instead of Judd?  Maybe, but also maybe not.  In the end this is all about creativity people, its not as if Batwing is a real character that one needs to have life experiences put into to make it spectacular.  Just enjoy Batwing for the fact that Winick is writing it and forget the rest!

Here's what I think works about a Batwing book: there are lots of unstable countries in Africa (Yemen, both Congos, Sudan, Zimbabwe, etc.) which have a lot of the drama Eastern Europe had around the fall of the soviet bloc. Here's what I think doesn't work about a Batwing stand alone book: Batwing is defined by his high tech look (until we find out more about him) but if he's going to be in the various places Winick talked about (the slums, the rural areas as well as the western style cities) what happens when his tech craps out on him and he's on the Giza plateau? 
 
Although I think diversity just for the sake diversity is kinda silly, I also think if DC really wanted to up the number of minority characters, they would keep Batman Inc. and focus on all the new Batmen (I wanna see more with Nightrunner and Mr. Unknown)

I don't think diversity is a "gimmick," but I do agree that if a character who is added for diversity's sake doesn't have a solid story behind it, it SHOULD fail.

@MydLyfeCrysis: I said white privilege, not white privileged. I made the assumption on the fact that it is almost always white people that complain about people wanting diversity (that, and your profile picture suggests as much as well). Furthermore, you calling "white privilege" an "ignorant phrase used when people cannot intelligently discuss what can be a volatile topic" is you effectively shutting down the fact that white people have more privilege than minorities what a radical notion

You literally called the idea that Judd Winick had of "hey let's make an african superhero there aren't many of those!" a "slice of bigotry".

@fodigg: First, I want to thank you for replying to me in an intelligent, non-aggressive manner.  

@MydLyfeCrysis

While I think we may have to disagree on some points, you are making one key mistake, which is perhaps my failure to correctly articulate. Where we disagree is that I don't think a serial plot, and a superhero plot, can really succeed when it's only motivation is to introduce "diversity" for that simple reason. As I stated before, it's patronizing. My qualm isn't with creating a pantheon of unique heroes, but the way in which it can be handled.
 
Most importantly, my frustration isn't with the existence of Batwing, the setting, or plot. My irritation is with the way these characters have been introduced to us. That the concept of diversity is all that legitimizes these heroes. The concept of diversity is all that sanctions them. We cannot talk about all those interesting and unique points of the book without first marking this character as a product of political correctness. First, DC must let you know that if you don't like the character you are against diversity and, with society's implications a racist. In this context, my argument isn't near contradictory. What I ask, is that if this book is more than an insulting, "look Batman is black" and an actual a gaze into an interesting part of the world from a unique point of view, let it stand on those merits.    

@MydLyfeCrysis

I think this is also seen when, as you said, people start with the idea to make a diverse character just to be diverse. Generally those characters never move beyond that diversity. Sure, that isn't the result 100% of the time, but we must admit most of the time this is the case. The character is nothing more than their "diverse" quality, the message becomes ham-fisted and the story suffers. I feel your point of Othello is a good one, in that it answers your question. But to clarify; had Shakespeare written a letter stating his fascination with the moors, the region, and culture,  and his desire to explore a tale from a moor's point of view, it would change nothing for me. But wouldn't it cheapen the legacy of the mastery of tales such as Othello had it not been allowed to stand on it's own merits?      

• "We should have a black Batman." (Core motivation)
• "Okay. Wasn't there a black Batman in Batman Inc.?" (brainstorming)
• "Yes, and he's in Africa. Batman in Africa! That's awesome!" (core concept of the book established)

@MydLyfeCrysis

 
And this statement is exactly echoing what I feel. Diversity for diversity's sake implies there isn't solid foundation for the character, but that it is there for quotas and back patting. Cheers.

I don't think diversity is a "gimmick," but I do agree that if a character who is added for diversity's sake doesn't have a solid story behind it, it SHOULD fail.

Hmm. So it sounds like you're more upset about how this book is being marketed than with the book itself. Is that fair? 

Correct, sir.

"We should have a black Batman." (Core motivation)

"Okay. Wasn't there a black Batman in Batman Inc.?" (brainstorming)

"Yes, and he's in Africa. Batman in Africa! That's awesome!" (core concept of the book established)

Your concept evolution makes a good point. I will relegate that. But understand I don't see that as diversity for diversity's sake. I see that as starting with an interesting point, and evolving it to provide an entirely unique story. Perhaps I am jaded seeing characters I SHOULD love that never make it beyond that point of an awful stereotypical icon. That or they never grow to anything beyond 2D splashes of color to add cred or appease the PC gods. Hey, I WANT representation, icons, and role models, but I want them to be GOOD examples of such and not at the sacrifice of already great and established characters (and books). Which, I think, is fair.
 
Perhaps I wax too philosophical for some, and delve too deeply into motivation and perceived intent, but it is a flaw I bear. 
 

Anyway, I just hope Batwing is good. I'd be almost as excited for it if it were Bruce Wayne fighting African warlords, but I think it adds gravitas that this Batman will be defending his home. It will seem less like a fly-by-night adventure the American super-heroes are having this week in Africa. Batwing won't solve all of Africa's problems in six issues and then go back to Gotham. Also, Africa is big and has a lot of different political climates. There are so many different settings and stories they could do there that it easily qualifies as fodder for an ongoing. It just needs to not suck. 

I agree my friend. The feeling of Batwing defending his homeland gives the book a more meaningful impact. I just don't think it would work with Bruce. Not as a permanent book run, that is for sure.

Judd: "Truth is he's (Ben) not drawn this many black people before"

Babs: "There's not a lot of black people in comics."

Thank you for just saying it. It's equally endearing and upsetting that in 2011 you have to use refrences to draw a black character. In the end though I'd rather someone be there that has done their homework than delivered a color swapped Barbara Gordon.

@fodigg:

Hmm. So it sounds like you're more upset about how this book is being marketed than with the book itself. Is that fair? 

Correct, sir.

"We should have a black Batman." (Core motivation) "Okay. Wasn't there a black Batman in Batman Inc.?" (brainstorming) "Yes, and he's in Africa. Batman in Africa! That's awesome!" (core concept of the book established)

Your concept evolution makes a good point. I will relegate that. But understand I don't see that as diversity for diversity's sake. I see that as starting with an interesting point, and evolving it to provide an entirely unique story. Perhaps I am jaded seeing characters I SHOULD love that never make it beyond that point of an awful stereotypical icon. That or they never grow to anything beyond 2D splashes of color to add cred or appease the PC gods. Hey, I WANT representation, icons, and role models, but I want them to be GOOD examples of such and not at the sacrifice of already great and established characters (and books). Which, I think, is fair.

I want to follow a new title when DC becomes all new and shiny in September and I'm really starting to lean towards this, followed the newest Flash (to a point) and Green Lantern, just fancy something different and I'm interested to see how this will work, I do agree with earlier comments about it being sad that diversity is still taking a long time to become a thing of the norm.

Sounds like that could be an interesting premise for a book. The way he talks about it gives off a vibe that he knows what he's doing.

@VaizD: Maybe the podcast interview was considered part 1?

Say what you want but we all know that comic books do need more diversity.

@VaizD: Maybe the podcast interview was considered part 1?

Hell Yeah Go Batwing

@fodigg:

Hmm. So it sounds like you're more upset about how this book is being marketed than with the book itself. Is that fair? 

Correct, sir.

"We should have a black Batman." (Core motivation)

"Okay. Wasn't there a black Batman in Batman Inc.?" (brainstorming)

"Yes, and he's in Africa. Batman in Africa! That's awesome!" (core concept of the book established)

Your concept evolution makes a good point. I will relegate that. But understand I don't see that as diversity for diversity's sake. I see that as starting with an interesting point, and evolving it to provide an entirely unique story. Perhaps I am jaded seeing characters I SHOULD love that never make it beyond that point of an awful stereotypical icon. That or they never grow to anything beyond 2D splashes of color to add cred or appease the PC gods. Hey, I WANT representation, icons, and role models, but I want them to be GOOD examples of such and not at the sacrifice of already great and established characters (and books). Which, I think, is fair.
 
Perhaps I wax too philosophical for some, and delve too deeply into motivation and perceived intent, but it is a flaw I bear. 
 

Anyway, I just hope Batwing is good. I'd be almost as excited for it if it were Bruce Wayne fighting African warlords, but I think it adds gravitas that this Batman will be defending his home. It will seem less like a fly-by-night adventure the American super-heroes are having this week in Africa. Batwing won't solve all of Africa's problems in six issues and then go back to Gotham. Also, Africa is big and has a lot of different political climates. There are so many different settings and stories they could do there that it easily qualifies as fodder for an ongoing. It just needs to not suck. 

I agree my friend. The feeling of Batwing defending his homeland gives the book a more meaningful impact. I just don't think it would work with Bruce. Not as a permanent book run, that is for sure.

@Godot: Then you are even more ignorant that your post lets on. "White privileged" is the farthest thing one would use to describe my life and assumes a hell of a lot. Further, that is an ignorant phrase used when people cannot intelligently discuss what can be a volatile topic. I hinted at no racism. Diversity is often a buzzword used to apply some kind of "street cred", or appease the PC crowd at the cost of quality. To this effect I do call it the "dreaded D-word" as it is often a harbinger of degraded quality, and heavy-handed preaching. It causes a pigeon-holing of the property that usually winds up as supercilious tripe.   Where in my post did I even hint at racism or "white privilege" when discussing diversity for diversity's sake? Was it where I defended the target minority group (of whom I could be a part of by the way) by saying that it is patronizing and an insult to the intelligence of readers? Or how about when I said that I would be reading the two books mentioned, and with optimism, only wishing they would let the stories do the talking for themselves instead of trying to induce some pathetic form of politically correct guilt upon their market? If they decided to have a white dude take up Black Panther's mantle, and in their selling of the idea tried to some crap about diversifying the hero, I'd feel just as annoyed.

Batwing vs Black Adam? You want him to die on his first solo series?

Dear Judd: I think this should be mentioned, but why have one Batman covering the whole of Africa? Frankly Bruce has enough trouble in Gotham as it is, and yet here he is, assigning a new kid a whole continent, where so many conflicts are brewing in so many places, with the Libyan Civil War, to the anarchy of Somalia, to the totalitarianism of Mugabe? And why even focus a book on Batwing, when an equally viable character, who's a bit more fleshed out is present? The Night Runner surely deserved his own series, and was sorely underrepresented in Batman, Incorporated.

DC release Rucka and keep winnick? WTF!

Hey! 
Judd Winick here. No B.S. It's really me. 
I stopped by to check the interview I did with the fabulous folks at Comicvine, and in all honesty, see what I'm looking like with a shaved head(truth--i miss hair), and could not help but take a gander at some of the thoughts of you fine comic readers. 
For all of you who posted the positive vibes, and hopeful curiosity-- thanks! We are bound and determined to not let you down.  (Wait 'til you see the art from Ben Oliver. INSANE!)
For all of those who have written Batwing off without even seeing  the book, all I ask is that you consider giving it a shot.  Maybe we'll change your mind.
 And for the straight up haters. I plan to keep writing comics out of love, but I always manage to find some extra motivation out of spite.  So thanks for that. :)  
 
big hugs!! 
 
judd

 and Ive known 2 DC interns that specifically named him as a douchebag in their stories without any provocation on my own part)  

@squidracerX said:

 and Ive known 2 DC interns that specifically named him as a douchebag in their stories without any provocation on my own part)  

 and BTW, you sir, are totally full of it. Your pants are on fire. No interns have said anything bad about me, cuz no interns WOULD have anything bad to say about  me.  Big honking lie. Just saying. 

I seem to be having a problem getting the video to play. Anyone else having that problem?

if thats why your not doing it...why mention it!? 
Diversity is starting to become a dirty word

This is actually more promising than what I heard from Comic Con, at least Winick knows Africa is a large diverse continent as opposed to a country

Nice video, nice interview.  Too bad its short.  Will there be a part 3?
Nice to see comics branching out, not just diversity, but also moving out from America and places like New York and Gotham.  Making it more global.  I can't wait to see who becomes his circle of friends and help.
Batman has Alfred, Robin, Nightwing, Batgirl, etc.  The Bat Family.  Will Batwing get his own Batwing family?
Because Africa is huge, and like someone else said, Batman has a hard enough time with Gotham.
Sounds exciting.

I feel patronised.  
 
This could go either way, I'm all for new characters and I love that it'll be set in Africa! But I think he was telling a fib about them not doing it solely for diversity. I hope it's good because it has potential.

I am glad there is more diversity nowadays in comics. And I hope to see more diversity as to races, religions, sexual preferences and gender preferences.  I do that diversity should become a gimmick to propel comicbooks. Because then it's a comicbook with a minority vote. But I say yes to diversity!

I wanna see a Muslim / Arabian superhero with a proper telling of their religion and culture!
I wanna see a Transgendered superhero
I wanna see more Asian super-heroes that aren't the standard Kato
I wanna see some European superheroes from Europe. Preferably from other countries other than UK, Germany, France, Spain, Italy. Can a hero be from The Netherlands for a change. Or from Serbia or Poland or Latvia?