Who is the real Cyttorak?

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CapitolPunishment

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#1  Edited By CapitolPunishment

I am well versed in most if not all opinions about this obscure character called Cyttorak and also have my own He has very little showings at all in comics and opinions of his powers vary greatly. 
 
His main claim to fame is powering the mighty Juggernaut.
 
I want to hear your opinions on what is origin is, how powerful he really is and what exactly he is since the Marvel writers do not care enough about him to provide us this information. We can start with the basics but feel free to add anything as you go.

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TrueIlluminatus

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#2  Edited By TrueIlluminatus

I've always assumed Cyttorak was some foolish Earth Sky-Father who was admonished by his fellow Sky-Fathers and/or a being(s) of higher power, and was thus banished to the Crimson Cosmos.  
 
The writers at Marvel use him as a plot device, so it's somewhat obvious why they've remained so vague on the character.

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CATPANEXE

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#3  Edited By CATPANEXE

I beg to differ with your opinions that writers didn't shed any light. They shed enough. Likewise I felt the same until I read the actual comics themselves, every single one involving him and Juggernaut (I really wanted to prove a guy wrong about Cyttorak and thought he was blowing smoke about the whole thing, the research proved him right). Anyways, there's already a ton of these threads, your answer is there in depth.

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tron_bonne

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#4  Edited By tron_bonne
@CATPANEXE said:

I beg to differ with your opinions that writers didn't shed any light. They shed enough. Likewise I felt the same until I read the actual comics themselves, every single one involving him and Juggernaut (I really wanted to prove a guy wrong about Cyttorak and thought he was blowing smoke about the whole thing, the research proved him right). Anyways, there's already a ton of these threads, your answer is there in depth.

I agree with CAT, but there's not more of these threads than there is Thor or Superman threads. Cyttorak is very underground. Only the really curious like Capital Punishment would bring him up, but it's not like that's a bad thing.... The only problem is that you - Capital Punishment - don't absorb the information as well as others. It's like you bring it up solely to start flame wars and call people out. I mean you created the whole Hulk vs Cyttorak threads and other funny threads similar like that. Frankly, I think you are doing it to test his power if these are honest threads, however, benefit of the doubt has been shoved away every time you post negative remarks like, "this person lies more than the Bush Administration" and posting the same picture of Cyttorak getting knocked out by the Juggernaut. lol. There are like four experts on this subject that I'm aware of and I'm not all of them, mind you, that could tell you about Cyttorak but you won't believe any one of them. I mean, it seems like it bothers you so much, you have nightmares over this lol~. Anyhow, like CATPANEXE says, there is enough info which answers to your series of questions. The rest is up to the perception of the reader/listener/watcher.
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tron_bonne

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#5  Edited By tron_bonne

Oh and Cyttorak is more of an IT than a Who. 

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TrueIlluminatus

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#6  Edited By TrueIlluminatus
@tron_bonne: He's just curious. There's no need to be condescending.
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tron_bonne

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#7  Edited By tron_bonne
@Illuminatus said:
@tron_bonne: He's just curious. There's no need to be condescending.
Well he started it when he said "You spread more lies than the Bush Administration." lol. I don't have a personal problem with Capital, I think he's cool in some areas and has good sense of humor. Maybe it's because he's been debating with the nice Cyttorak chronologists. Maybe he needs to have a talk with the mean ones like Vendel or Knowsbleed. LOL~
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tron_bonne

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#8  Edited By tron_bonne

Where are those two guys anyway?

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CapitolPunishment

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#9  Edited By CapitolPunishment
@tron_bonne said: 
 

I agree with CAT, but there's not more of these threads than there is Thor or Superman threads.  Cyttorak is very underground. Only the really curious like Capital Punishment would bring him up, but it's not like that's a bad thing....

I agree with the fact he is not properly discussed, most discussions end up on the battle boards.
 

The only problem is that you - Capital Punishment - don't absorb the information as well as others.

I absorb it just fine. The problem is that people just post fan made speculation on the character with no real weight behind it. From what I have seen you post you have shown me nothing new on the character and repeat posts made by others with much less detail and some more added fan fic to the topics. You and Bastro may be the same person so its possible you just got tired of the long posts or you can be his/her little bro/sister/roommate/book club member or whatever. I do know that your avatar and his/her as well as dozens of others are coming from the same isourcep, namely all the doppelgangers of other users you see floating around the battle boards. 
 
That would be pretty damn cool if your all actually different people hanging out with one another discussing comics :)
 

It's like you bring it up solely to start flame wars and call people out. I mean you created the whole Hulk vs Cyttorak threads and other funny threads similar like that.  Frankly, I think you are doing it to test his power if these are honest threads, however, benefit of the doubt has been shoved away every time you post negative remarks like, "this person lies more than the Bush Administration" and posting the same picture of Cyttorak getting knocked out by the Juggernaut. lol.

I made those threads for an actual reason. You have made threads and or participated in thread where  you put Cyttorak on a high throne to compare him to the likes of the Living Tribunal and claim his powers are much greater than characters like Eternity while providing little to no proof outside your own views supported by theory and fan fic on what the character should be. I made threads like that to prove a point, with his limited showings, many of which were not high end you can make the same argument against Cyttorak if you use the same creative posting supported by little or no actual facts. Do I think the Hulk can actually beat Cyttorak? Of course not. Do I think Cyttorak is far above Eternity and a multiversal threat? Of course not. 
 
Also, I did not say "you lie more than the Bush administration", I did not even say the Bush administration actually lied. I actually said "You spread more false information than the Bush administration did". I said this because you sometimes get proven wrong multiple times on a single comment you make in threads and then pretend that it never happened. You then continue to spread the same false information knowing that it is inaccurate, this is misleading to newer users that are reading the threads trying to learn something. When I see you do this I have to call you out. The sad thing is that after this repeatedly happens you just switch to an alt and start posting the same nonsense. Mind you most of what I just referenced is not even about Cyttorak.
 

  There are like four experts on this subject that I'm aware of and I'm not all of them, mind you, that could tell you about Cyttorak but you won't believe any one of them.

I am not saying that you and other big supporters of Cyttorak are the same person, in fact I have had plenty of convo's with other Cyttorak supporters. For the record, no disrespect intended, I do not consider you an expert on him at all. 
 

 I mean, it seems like it bothers you so much, you have nightmares over this lol~.  It doesn't bother me at all. Anyhow, like CATPANEXE says, there is enough info which answers to your series of questions. The rest is up to the perception of the reader/listener/watcher.

It doesn't bother me at all, I made this thread to actually have a constructive discussion about the character, his origin, power limits etc.
 
It obviously bothers you because when your ideas repeatedly get shot down you have to create multiple accounts to ghost bump threads and post same the same thing over and over again ignoring whoever it is that given day proving you wrong.

 

@Illuminatus said: 
 

 He's just curious. There's no need to be condescending.

Thanks, I just wanted to put some of the Cyttorak ideas up in the air for people to discuss. He is mostly discussed in the battle boards and no offense to anyone there but generally the bulk of the more knowledgeable comic readers don't hang around the battle boards so I put it here where it belongs for a civil discussion.

I've always assumed Cyttorak was some foolish Earth Sky-Father who was admonished by his fellow Sky-Fathers and/or a being(s) of higher power, and was thus banished to the Crimson Cosmos.   The writers at Marvel use him as a plot device, so it's somewhat obvious why they've remained so vague on the character.
Thanks for the input, I generally think the same thing, it all would make sense.   
 
I'm going to make a long winded, probably boring post explaining why I think this and its not pointed at you, just at the thread in general :)
 
 
Here are my theories:
 
1) If the council of god heads decided to combine there powers in an effort to banish a single sky-father they could do such a thing, even the most powerful ones. Cyttorak could have gotten out of line and banishment was his fate.
 
2) Another possibility could have been a visit from the Celestial's. When the 3rd host of Celestial's visited Earth and were attacked by the Earth sky-fathers a single Celestial opened portals to each of there respective realms and threatened to permanently sever the links of there realms to earth so they could never return. If said Celestial decided to go through with his threat that would have made Odin, Vishnu and Zeus extra dimensional deities who were banished to there own realms. 
 
I do not recall that arc mentioning Cyttorak at all but he may have been a sky-father that was not aligned with the council, it is possible that the other members of theOctessence had there own little "council of god heads" that did not have mankind's safety in there best interest then decided not to heed the Celestial's warnings and got themselves banished. It could have happened before Odin and company confronted the Celestial but was never mentioned or it could have happened at a completely different time during another visit.
 
3) The elder gods could also do above mentioned things. An example would be when just a manifestation Chthon who just possessed a fraction of his full power was able to temporarily sever the link between Asgard and Earth.
 
Here is an analogy I will use to put Cyttorak's power in perspective:  
 
Odin is the life force of Asgard, he supplies the life force of all the gods in Asgard (including Thor), his existence ensures Asgard as a realm is there, he created and empowered all the magical relics that the Asgardians use such as Thor's hammer, Stormbreaker etc. In fact Thor as a being is just a little trickle of Odin's life giving energy. 
 
Now imagine, Odin somehow gets himself, his people banished and the realm of Asgard cut off from Marvel mainstream effectively making it an extra dimensional realm where he is trapped by one of the above mentioned ways. Lets say the all-Father then decides to take back all that he has given, he takes back all of the life force that allows the Asgardians to live effectively killing off his race (including Thor and co), he then takes back all of his energy that is enchanting all of the mystical weapons that were empowered by his mystical energies. Odin is now juiced up from taking back all of the precious energy he generously let everyone live off of and the massive amounts of  power enchanting the mystical weapons.
 
You now have an extremely powerful sky-father living by himself in the extra dimensional realm of Asgard. 
 
- Would Odin and Asgard not be one and the same (such as Cyttorak and the crimson cosmos are)? 
- Now imagine Odin creates a gem that will empower an avatar of his choosing with 1/8 of his own power such as Cyttorak did. How powerful would this Avatar be if he/she possessed 1/8 of Odin's power? Thor just possessed a tiny fraction of Odin's power and we all know how powerful he is
- Cyttorak can create little elf men to worship him within the crimson cosmos. Odin created a powerful race of gods that follow him just as easily as Cyttorak created the little elf men.
 
Forgive me for using Odin here, he is to noble to do any of that I just wanted to try and put the power of Cyttorak in perspective. Is Cyttorak truely as powerful as some would suggest?
 
Personally I would rank him around low end sky-father level.
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DEADPOOL

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#10  Edited By DEADPOOL

Cyttorak is an extra-dimensional dark god, one of the supernatural entities that Dr. Strange draws power from.

I can't say for sure how powerful he is. He empowers Juggernaut with a portion of his power to act as his avatar on Earth, a sort of symbol of his power.

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#11  Edited By Dernman

Now granted I'm not an expert on Cyttorak on any level but in a recent issues of one of the X-Men comics where Colossus get's Juggernaut's power. It was shown that Cyttorak had Juggernauts in many different universes.  Now if that was in different realities, timelines, dimensions or whatever I can't quite remember. It does show that he isn't limited to earth and that he barely/rarely notices/concentrates one Juggernaut because he has so many.

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CapitolPunishment

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@Dernman said:
Now granted I'm not an expert on Cyttorak on any level but in a recent issues of one of the X-Men comics where Colossus get's Juggernaut's power. It was shown that Cyttorak had Juggernauts in many different universes.  Now if that was in different realities, timelines, dimensions or whatever I can't quite remember. It does show that he isn't limited to earth and that he barely/rarely notices/concentrates one Juggernaut because he has so many.
Can I see the scans please?
 
Was Cyttorak showing these other Juggernaut's or were they shown elsewhere? If it was shown elsewhere there could be multiple Cyttorak's, if not that is indeed an interesting point I would like to review.
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#13  Edited By Dernman
@CapitolPunishment said:
@Dernman said:
Now granted I'm not an expert on Cyttorak on any level but in a recent issues of one of the X-Men comics where Colossus get's Juggernaut's power. It was shown that Cyttorak had Juggernauts in many different universes.  Now if that was in different realities, timelines, dimensions or whatever I can't quite remember. It does show that he isn't limited to earth and that he barely/rarely notices/concentrates one Juggernaut because he has so many.
Can I see the scans please?  Was Cyttorak showing these other Juggernaut's or were they shown elsewhere? If it was shown elsewhere there could be multiple Cyttorak's, if not that is indeed an interesting point I would like to review.
Sorry it was my friends copy I read when it came out so I don't have the scans. IIRC Cyttorak was sitting and there was window/viewing screens all around him. He was explaining about what I mentioned above while viewing the window/screens of what IIRC were different Juggernauts. He also said something about not caring what they do if they are destroying or something like they are meant too. 
 
 It was in one of the comics when Colossus went to Cyttorak to tell him about Juggernaut working for the Serpent. So it was resent and someone else might have the scans.
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lord_oraculous016

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i want to extend my deepest appreciation to CapitolPunishment for creating this thread.. this is exactly what we need to understand who or what Cyttorak really is..

first here is Cyttorak's bio from the OHOTMU

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i have been trying to uncover the possible origins of Cyttorak for quite a while now.. and upon so much thinking, i would side with other people's belief that Cyttorak is a possibly a Skyfather..

here are some key points with regards to this theory..

Cyttorak is a Extra-Dimensional being:

-- It has been mentioned many times that Cyttorak is an extra-dimensional being.. this may possibly be true.. but this fact does not mean that Cyttorak may not be a Skyfather.. most thinks Skyfathers were born on Earth or has strong connections with the earth such as Odin or Zeus.. such does apply to most, but there are also Skyfathers that were "created" far from Earth Dimension.. one good example is the Aboriginal Skyfather Altjira.. according to legend, upon his creation, Altjira found himself in a dimension known as "Dreamtime", a extra-dimensional realm adjacent to Nightmare's Dream Dimension.. we all know that the Skyfathers were created from the divine energies released by the Demogorge after the fall of the Elder Gods.. Cyttorak is most probably like him who despite being a mere Skyfather, was conceived from an extra-dimensional realm..

Cyttorak is the Crimson Cosmos:

-- we all know what the crimson Cosmos is.. it is a extra-dimensional realm within the Outer Planes.. it is unknown to us if Cyttorak was "created" within the Crimson Cosmos itself or did he just found/created it upon his exile from Earth.. if Cyttorak was created within the Crimson Cosmos, then he would be like Altjira, if he created the Crimson Cosmos, then he would be like the rest of the Elder Gods, or if he found sanctuary there upon his exile, then he would be like the Seraphims..

his power within the Crimson Cosmos can also be connected with this.. some would argue that Cyttorak is nigh-omnipotent while he is within the Crimson Cosmos.. such thought is not unique.. both Mephisto and Dormammu are more powerful within their realms, the extent of Illyana's power while in Limbo is said to be "all-powerful", and so on and so forth.. it may also be possible that Cyttorak managed to increase his own power while in exile within the Crimson Cosmos.. look at what happened to Set.. he grew infinitely more powerful than before upon his return that to the point that he managed to fight the Demogorge to a standstill of millions of years despite the Demogorge absorbing his power in the process..

Cyttorak has dwelt on Earth before and was banished:

-- this is one of the important facts about Cyttorak.. that he was once on Earth and was banished.. the being who caused his exile and the reason behind it is the true question.. i am thinking of two possible candidates..

1.) The Celestials -- we know that 1,000 years ago during the Third Host, the Celestials threatened to sever the connection of the Gods to their worshipers if they interfere with the Celestials’ activities.. it was also roughly around this time that Cyttorak and the rest of the Octessence were banished.. who knows that during this or even before the Second Host a group of arrogant gods challenged the Celestials and then found themselves exiled from earth for their blasphemous actions..

2.) Gaea, the Mother Goddess and Atum the God Eater -- we know that Gaea is the protectress of Earth's biosphere and has assigned herself to oversee the proliferation of life.. granted Cyttorak's destructive character, Gaea may have stepped in and banished the arrogant god and his brethren or had his son, the Demogorge chase them away into exile..

Cyttorak is something between a God and a Demon:

-- Cyttorak's split aspects of being a god/demon is not really unique.. the Hyborian God Crom is known for his grim, gloomy and unforgiving persona, as well as brings down only trouble and doom despite being the patron God of several cultures.. also, Conan usually Conan exclaims things like "Crom and his devils" suggesting that despite being a God, Crom is not fully benevolent compare to most of the known Gods..

Cyttorak is called upon by Doctor Strange for aid and even powerful mystical beings such as Umar, Dormammu and Zom uses his spells:

-- Being called upon for aid for spells is never really a status symbol.. some forms of spells may be unique to one mystical beings such as Cyttorak for his Crimson Bands and Raggadorr for his rings or Ikkon for his illusions.. some of the so-called Principalities are just mere servants of other far more powerful beings.. the Seraphims for example were just creations of the Elder Goddess Oshtur who were then banished by her to the Seven Citadels of Sephiroth and are known today for their spell known as the "Shield of the Seraphim"..

i hope i have helped in some way..

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CATPANEXE

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#15  Edited By CATPANEXE

@Dernman: Only to keep confusion from it, what you describing does not happen in the (not plural) issue where Colossus and Illyana narc out Cain for working as one of The Worthy (to be true as well, he wasn't willing, the Serpents avatar over-rid and possessed him - see: Thunderbolts FI tie-ins, Illyana either saw things for what they weren't or came up with a ruse). Cyttorak does make mention that he is pleased to see Cain causing so much destruction prior to being aware it's in someone else's name, but makes no mention of alternate Juggernauts nor is this monitor scene your speaking of present. For the life of me I can't think of where that occurs either, but in the interest of not misleading the asker here.

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No angels. No demons. #CyttorakIsGod Heretics and Pilgrims be damned.

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Cyttorak is multiversal or above, his reach extended outside marvels multiverse into the Malibu verse. cyttorak > vishanti and other magical beings as well.

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#18  Edited By KrleAvenger

@asgardianbrony: Malibu comics share a Universe with Marvel. It does not extend on another Multiverse, it is just another reality from Marvel owned by Malibu. Take it as Marvel Zombie Verse which is connected with Army of Darkness but more connected.

Also Crimson Cosmos is not even Cyttorak's. It is a dimension he took over because he is banished there. Not only Crimson Cosmos does not extend outside of Marvel but even if it does (and it does not) it does not affect Cyttorak as Crimson Cosmos is just a Dimension he was banished on. That is why he created Juggernaut in the first place, because he wanted to have influence on the Creation he was banished on.

Nowhere was it ever mentioned that Cyttorak is from CC. He is an Elder God and was banished there.

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ASGARDIANBRONY

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@krleavenger: it has been shown many times that cyttorak is the crimson cosmos.

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Batman.

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@asgardianbrony: When? If it is Pre-Fear Itself than all information was retconed as him being a powerful Elder God who was banished to CC because of his will for Chaos and power. Probably a connection for Elder Gods becoming Demons which is the reason why Gaea created an off spring to kill the Elder Gods. Either Cyttorak was the first one, either he started it or it happened during those times. It might be possible and cool thing for a story but either way, it does not change the fact that his most recent origin was this:

Powerful evil Elder God who was banished to CC and tried to influence our own by creating Juggernaut.

While I can agree that he is Multiversal because he is on the same tier as Shuma Gorath and Vishanti... he does not go beyond that unless you provide some evidence.

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