Cyttorak Respect Thread

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kenshiroo

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#1  Edited By kenshiroo

Cyttorak is an immensely powerful other-dimensional God or conceptual being who is a threat to Universal and Multiversal scale. Even Mephisto dared to say Cyttorak is the closest candidate to be the true Satan or the most powerful of all demonic entities in the Marvel Universe (above Dormammu, Surtur, Marduk Kurios, Shuma Gorath, etc) because he is the most militant.

Cyttorak is saw very close to sit on that throne

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Mephisto's sarcasm was shattered when Colossus/Juggernaut (Cyttorak's new avatar in that moment) almost killed the Serpent. No to mention, before that match, Cain could have easily cast out the Serpent's possession if he used the Cyttorak’s power which was inside him, but he chose not to. Simply, the Serpent just was a small entertainment to Cyttorak. Even the narrator stated, "Cain could have used the power of Cyttorak to cast out the possessor, but Cain's will chose not to."

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Tom Brevoort, an editor and senior VP of Marvel publishing, someone asked how powerful is Cyttorak compared to Zom and Shuman Gorath, Brevoort replied Cyttorak is an abstract mystic being so “I would place him well above Zom, and likely above Shuma Gorath depending on circumstances”

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It is not a coincidence what it was stated by Brevoort is subtly pointed out on the panels comic, above ;)

Cyttorak excommunicated and powered down his traditional avatar the Juggernaut (Cain Marko) also possessed by Kurth the Breaker of Stone, however, Cain keeps some fractions of Cyttorak’s energies within his body.

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Cyttorak empowers Colossus as his new Juggernaut avatar, being the only one who was able to stop the Serpent’s avatar (Kurth/Jugg) and was about to kill him. The Serpent was forced to take away his avatar before being killed by Colossusnaught. Cyttorak clearly outmatched and overpowered The Serpent’s power.

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Plundering Cyttorak’s energies from Juggernaut, D'Spayre (a mighty Fear Lord) was boosted to a near-omnipotent state, being able to briefly take control the entire fabrics of the Universe (Earth-616). This happened after Cain got out from Cyttorak’s Gem (in X-Men Unlimited #12), after his imprisonment by Onslaught as it pointed out in a reference on the panel. D’Spayre also stated Jugg is a supplier of near-unlimited power.

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It was showed how D’Spayre used his new reality warping powers (pointed out on Universal scale) by creating demonic hordes, opening a gateway to Oblivion, and reducing the Juggernaut into a skeleton at one point until an enraged Juggernaut managed to defeat him. All this was performed with a fraction of Cyttorak's energy borrowed from Jugg.

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During the Trion Saga, the Trion's dark side possessed the Juggernaut by tapping into Cyttorak's power in order to power up his avatar into universe busting level. Jugg was enabled to physically crush and tear down multiple dimensional barriers by punching them with his physical force, in order to find and kill the powerful Trion Gods (creators of the Triple Evil force). During his rampage, the Juggernaut ripped through the continuum space and time to pass out from one dimension to another, which caused the merger of several dimensions. Moreover, Juggernaut was able to split the very fabric of space-time itself with a fraction of Cyttorak’s energies whose rupture was leading the outer void stage through the unearthly Trion’s universe in which he was. At the end, if Storm had not channeled magical energies from Mojo's realm to heal the unearthly Trion's universe, the entire universe and its inhabitants had been destroyed. This feat confirms and proves once again, that a fraction of Cyttorak's energies not only allow to control the very fabric of universe also could destroy the continuum space of time of a single Universe.

A fraction of Cyttorak’s energies tear a hole right through the very fabric of space-time of Trion Universe, leading its full outer void stage.

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For those who think Trion’s universe is a “pocket” dimension, in the comic panels clearly is showed is a whole infinite universe where the traditional laws of physics does not apply and are chaotic and impressively unpredictable.

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The writer stated: “Is a fact Wolverine could fall forever”, this proves Trion’s dimension is composed by a virtually infinite amount of space. According to OHOTMU a dimension can be called a universe as long as has a virtually infinite amount of space.

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Even is stated clearly Trion’s dimension is called as Universe, so the Trion’s dimension definitively is not a pocket dimension, so a fraction of Cyttorak's energies destroyed the very fabric of single universe.

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As I’ve explained in Shuma Gorath Vs Cyttorak thread, Cyttorak's energies are so highly destructive that could destroy the very fabric of space-time of a single universe. If a small fraction of Cyttorak's energies could tear hole right through the very fabric of space-time of Trion Universe, leading its outer void stage then a larger amount of Cyttorak's energies could destroy it in one fell swoop.

This proves that fractions of destructive Cyttorak’s energies can rip off or destroy the very fabric of space and time of a Universe. This feat absolutely outclasses any feat of Shuma Gorath’s leached energies. For example, when is mistakenly assumed under the logical fallacy of cherry picking that "he could destroy galaxies" according to Kaluu's claims. In this point, Kaluu was referring to the present Dr. Strange egoless state, not Shuma. In this new state, Dr. Strange could barely destroy galaxies. Recall Dr. Strange egoless, already had a great quantity of black magic power at his disposal (drained of other previous Old Ones) before he drained and restrained Arioch and Shuma around himself. I'm referring to Kaluu's claims (because it has not been shown to do so, plus the amount of evil energy absorbed by Dr. Strange, not only came from Shuma but Arioch, which means that real Shuma power is even lower).

According to the original canon written by Stan Lee, Oblivion has shown to be unable to kill Juggernaut by aging him or erase him into the void, confessing that his presence was an annoying infection inside of its void that could not be voided out of existence so he spat him out of his realm in exchange of a fraction of Cyttorak’s powers. For that Oblivion just created an illusion to deceive Juggernaut by making him believe he was aging or dying. Juggernaut was spat from Oblivion's realm and returned to the Earth. This fact showed that Cyttorak has more influence on the Juggernaut’s existence than Oblivion even inside within Oblivion's own realm, in other words, Cyttorak was negating Oblivion's power to obliterate the Jugg even inside Oblivion's own realm.

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Jugg has survived to the void of Oblivion, the ultimate Entropy. Oblivion who is the most powerful of the four cosmic brother’s forces: Eternity, Infinity and Death, even was used by Mikaboshi to destroy almost all of the Multiverse but it could not wipe out Jugg from the existence.

Galactus's vessel got trapped into an interdimensional corridor by Cyttorak’s tendrils. Cyttorak’s tendrils captured the cosmic spaceship with Galactus, Silver Surfer, Nova and Doctor Strange on it and they were helpless against him. The tendrils teared through dimensions and trapped the spaceship but Nova’s flaming bursts caught the attention of Cyttorak who decided to free the ship in order to capture Dr. Strange and Nova who were helpless and sucked into Cyttorak’s realm. Galactus wanted no part in helping Dr. Strange get Surfer back.

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Dr. Strange invoking spells and conjures don't work on Crimson Cosmos, even summoning The Vishanti, because Cyttorak’s powers are limitless within in his own domain so the Principalities (Vishanti) could not interfere and help Dr. Strange, who was absolutely helpless and owned (almost killed) by Cyttorak until he managed to bring Jugg (Cyttorak own power) in order to break free.

The Vishanti's most powerful incantations and the other Principalities summoned by Strange were not able to aid Dr. Strange within Cyttorak domain.

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Not to mention Dr. Strange was about to be killed in fast and forceful way by Cyttorak while Nova was easily knocked unconscious (owned as well) by him.

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Instead on Agamotto’s dimension (one of Vishanti formers), Dr. Strange was able to invoke Cyttorak and others principalities's spells without any problems in order to gave a good fight against Agamotto in his own realm. While on CC, Dr. Strange was absolutely unable and helpless to fight against Cyttorak (who was in godly mode or lesser destructive aspect) because his mystical arts and spells did not work at all (the Vishanti and other Principalities could not answer to his spells and summons). This clearly proves that magical powers of powerful entities like the Vishanti and others Principalities can not work or are absolutely useless and totally nullified within CC. Dr. Strange has defeated Shuma Gorath three times but was absolutely owned by Cyttorak (considering in one of this battle Strange had all the preparation when he faced Shuma in his own domain, which was supposed to be omnipotent, but was defeated because Strange had the power and willpower to drain, absorb and restrain Arioch and Shuma in order to save the Earth even if the cost was the sacrifice of losing his ego).

This proves Cyttorak has limitless power and is truly omnipotent within his own domain but Shuma Gorath did not have limitless power in his own domain because was defeated by a powerful mortal magician (prep Doc Strange in black magic) who cancelled and restrained all his evil magical powers by sacrificing his ego. This proves Shuma's leeched energies and powers are finite and is not truly omnipotent in his own domain.

Example of how Dr. Strange used his Cyttorak and other Principalities spells to fight against Agamotto's own realm. A matter which Doc. Strange was unable to do around Crimson Cosmos because the others Principalities (Vishanti and the rest of the Octessence) could not interfere with Cyttorak domain.

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Given the inability of Dr. Strange to free Eternity, Juggernaut suddenly bounce into Nightmare’s realm by using certain magical skills of Cyttorak’s powers which he learned during his exile in the Crimson Cosmos. Juggernaut by using some spells of Cyttorak’s powers was able to neutralize and mock the powers of Nightmare (who was boosted with the cosmic powers of Eternity) in his own realm. Jugg had a fraction of Cyttorak’s power to fight against Eternity powered Nightmare. This feat proves that fractions of Cyttorak magical powers could affect or neutralize the cosmic powers of the Eternity used by Nightmare.

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With a mere thought Cyttorak overpowered 1/5 of Phoenix power without any effort. Well, is not impressive since Cyttorak obviously is Omnipotent in his own essence the Crimson Cosmos.

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The Vishanti, the Faltine (Dormammu), Raggaddorr, or any other Deity can not effectively use their power against Cyttorak because his presence negates their power as demonstrated during the War of the Seven Spheres.

For example, Cyttorak godlike aspect was negating Seraphim’s powers by cracking the Seraphim’s shield. Cyttorak's hand cracked the Shields of the Serephim.

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Cyttorak had the authority to threaten to destroy Watoomb, negating Watoomb’s powers as well. Cyttorak was attacked by Watoomb with no effect at all.

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Powerful sorcerers or magic users (Ancient One, Dr. Strange, Mordo) and even powerful extra-dimensional magical beings like Zom, Dormammu and Umar, etc. are semi-worshipers of Cyttorak, ie, in order to use his Crimson Bands and spells, they have to worship him by invoking his name. Not to mention the impressive feats of strenght of Cyttorak outside of his realm where performed via his avatar, the Juggernaut who is a conduit of his powers (let’s check Juggernaut feats: http://www.comicvine.com/juggernaut/4005-1445/forums/juggernaut-respect-thread-22109/#48).

Cyttorak, the rest of the Octessence or Principalities (Balthakk, Farallah, Ikonn, Krakkan, Raggadorr, Valtorr and Watoomb), Dormammu, the Vishanti, Agamotto, Beyonders, Zom, Shuma Gorath, Nebulos, Slorioth, Protégé, Nemesis, Rune, etc. are extradimensional and are originated outside of Eternity's realm (Earth-616 universe an multiverse) or Living Tribunal's jurisdiction.

In the novel: X-Men: The Jewels of Cyttorak which although is a possibly non-canon (although it is considered an alternative timeline in the Marvel Multiverse), proves there is one Cyttorak’s Crimson Cosmos which is placed within the Omniverse (outside Etenity’s realms or multiverse) since where he can send his gems into different realities, time streams or alternate timelines.

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If these two Cyttorak’s jewelries are together (the ruby and the emerald) the Juggernaut could easily destroy this world.

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Cyttorak is portrayed at least to be a Universal wide threat.

About Cyttorak's limitless energies and power have been pointed out by Marvel several times:

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OHOTMU Cyttorak's Bio and Powergrid

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The conclusive proof about the Crimson Cosmos is a Universe itself, being an Outer Plane located within the Omniverse. In comic panels clearly is depicted how CC is a whole infinite universe or magical dimension which even encompasses other worlds or realms. According to OHOTMU a dimension can be called a universe as long as has a virtually infinite amount of space and if is ordered in an integrated whole is called Cosmos, so the Cyttorak's Crimson Cosmos is proved to fit perfectly in this definition. Cyttorak is the God of a mistical Universe, an entire Cosmos which encompasses other planes. This explains why Cyttorak is a limitless source of magical power.

Even is stated clearly Cyttorak’s dimension or CC is called as Universe, so the Crimson Cosmos definitively is not a pocket dimension. ^_^

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SOURCE: http://www.marvunapp.com/ohotmu/appendixes/omnapp.htm

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#2  Edited By kenshiroo

How powerful are the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak? Well, we will see that are so powerful as the same strands of energy that hold this UNIVERSE TOGETHER.

Magic users can summon some mystic Principalities spell but their magic intensity and effectiveness depends on what level of concentration are their wielders in that moment. This is the reason because the Cyttorak band’s strength is sometimes affected by their wielder's power and skill; additionally, if the wielder is trying to protect the target from mystic injury, the force of the target’s resistance may be reflected back upon the wielder. Hulk and Namor have each broken the Crimson Bands only under such circumstances.

This even was said by Marvel Cyttorak’s Bio, from OHOTMU

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In such examples we see how the resistances of Cyttorak's bands were weakened when Strange in his astral form lost his concentration and almost all his spiritual strength after being violently expelled from Namor’s mind who was dominated by an uncontrollable homicidal rage.Dr. Strange barely had the strength to return to his body.

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By protecting Namor’s mind in his astral form, Dr Strange was hurled back and his target’s resistance was reflected back upon him as well due he lost concentration and strength, so Namor could break the Crimson Bands only under such circumstance.

Cyttorak bands are absolutely indestructible. Even Dr. Strange stated Cyttorak’s mystical bands are completely indestructible because they are composed of the same strands of energy that hold the Universe structured and No physical force in the world should even come close to rattling them (like the Hulk for example).

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This reinforces that someone who could steal Cyttorak’s energies can control the very fabric of the Universe or destroy it if that the case, as when happened with D'Spayre, who plundered a fraction of Cyttorak’s energies from Jugg in order to briefly take control over the Universe and warp it or when another fraction was released from Juggenaut’s body within Trion’s universe and tore an immeasurable hole right into the fabric of space and time which started a void that almost destroyed their whole universe.

Returning to the explanation about how the Crimson band's resistance would be affected according to the level of concentration of the magic user. The same thing happened with Hulk, Strange was not using all his mystical power and spiritual energy to put a strong effect on Cyttorak’s bands because much of it was used to keep his concentration on his astral form, call the mystical effects of Agamotto’s eye over the Fantastic Four and still hold the Hulk for a while at the same time. Therefore, his Cyttorak’s bands spells were not strong enough to hold him up, so the mystical force over the Hulk’s resistance was reflected back upon Dr. Strange because his attention was dispersed to protect him from the Fantastic Four and the attack of the Human Torch, so then, Hulk just broke the bands only under that circumstance.

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Quite contrary, Dr. Strange without using his astral form (which consumes much of his mystical energy) and completely focused on his target was able to summon the Cyttorak’s crimson bands to fully immobilize or entrap the savage Hulk. In normal conditions, Dr. Strange can invoke the crimson bands with normal resistance so it showed how Cyttorak's bands are totally indestructible, unaffected or unbreakable against the brute force of Savage Hulk punches, who was locked on or entrapped into a Cyttorak’s bands sphere, three times, being unable to even scratch the bands.

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Only if the concentration of the magic user is affected the enchantment disappears (as it was explained before), in this case Hulk can not break the crimson bands with his punches but can maneuver inside the sphere by jumping off which caused the loss of concentration of Dr. Strange and therefore, the dissolution of his crimson bands incantations.

Another prove about Cyttorak’s bands are completely unbreakable against savage Hulk’s strength or punches.

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Dr. Strange releases briefly Hulk but then he encloses him again and then he finally releases him for his aid at the right time.

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So in this way Hulk was absolutely owned and overpowered by Cyttorak’s unbreakable bands summoned by a magic user. Is not a surprise since the Juggernaut proved to be stronger than Hulk several times. Cyttorak's mystical power overpowers natural physical laws or forces of nature, not only on Hulk, also on Magneto’s full powers. Let's see:

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Above, it is stated Cyttorak’s magical powers overpowers the elemental forces of nature or the four physical interactions of the Universe known by the physical laws as we know. The elemental forces of nature are four physical systems interactions which hold integrated molecularly the matter and the reality of the Eternity’s multiverse.

These four elemental forces of nature (universe) are:

Gravitational

Electromagnetic

Strong nuclear

Weak nuclear

The Stan Lee’s soap box refers how Cyttorak’s magical power outclasses the four elemental forces of the physical Universe pointed out above, and as an example is proved how Magneto by using his full electromagnetic power (one of the fundamental forces of the physical universe) tries to crush the Juggernaut mystical armor. However, his full electromagnetic power was absolutely stomped, dwarfed, negated and useless because Cyttorak’s magic overpowers the four physical systems interactions that make up the existence of the Eternity’s multiverse. It was stated by Stan Lee, not me.

Juggernaut is the powerhouse agent, magically empowered by Cyttorak, who represents a fraction of his powers outside of the CC. Jugg has proved to be immortal, unkillable, indestructible, immune to death, time (aging) and molecular destruction by the powers and physical forces of cosmic beings that govern the multiverse as Eternity and Oblivion (ultimate entropy). Their cosmic powers proved to be useless to destroy the Juggernaut.

Hulk and Magneto’s full powers are useless against the Juggernaut (fractions of Cyttorak's powers).

Cyttorak makes the Juggernaut Immortal and Indestructible.

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Even Onslaught (in his primary incorporeal form had impressive psionic reality warping powers) was afraid of Cyttorak's power and confessed that can’t kill the Juggernaut because he is indestructible as long as he stays bonded to Cyttorak.

Recall that Onslaught’s psionic warping powers could separate the Gem from him and locked him in the Crimson Cosmos, stripped of his powers by creating a massive pisonic display where he molecularly handled his links with Cyttorak (illusion of ripping the gem of his chest). Nobody can do this to Juggernaut without a molecular manipulation, in this case via psionic warping power.

Second, the Gem was mystically fused to Juggernaut’s body. Onslaught separating Juggernaut from the Crimson Gem of Cyttorak is something that not even Doc Strange was able to do. Even the Sorcerer Supreme was shocked by the power of this feat (because that was not magical) and indeed, Onslaught did more than any supreme sorcerer, he ripped molecularly the Gem out of Cain. He trapped Cain’s soul and mind within the Gem via molecular manipulation and molecular teleportation.

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cbnnexus

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This is an amazing post. I had been searching for feats as part of a larger stat matrix project I've been working on. I wasn't quite sure if Cyttorak's rank/placement on my list was legit - because it's so insanely high. Now, the placement seems legitimate. Thanks for all your homework!

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Beautiful. Just beautiful.

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@cbnnexus: you guys are all coo coo for coco puffs!Every one on your list is more powerful than cyttorak.Not one of those post is Cyttorak even doing anything.Except him removing cyclops pheonix power,and when he did it,even he emplyed that if peter had more of the Phoenix power he couldn't beat peter.Oh,his bands did hold Galactus ship.oooooww,what an impressive feat.Wasnt Galactus busy and told strange and nova too handle it?You fanboys actually put Cyttorak above the LIVING TRIBUNAL!!!!!???Are you guys nuts!!??Oh,and the picture at the top,was all the hell-lords wishing they could sit in the true masters seat.SATAN.Whos power dwarfed Cyttorak's!!!It says so right there in the pic!If any other hell lord dared too sit in the "masters" seat,they would be torn apart by the others that were present.Now if Cyttorak was truly THAT powerful,why would it say that?Why wouldn't he just take the seat and bitch slap anyone who said something?They were ALL there because they were pissed because the serpent was tacking all the fear from them.Later in that same seen its even stated that Cyttorak can't do anything against the serpent but talk a lot of shit.It says it right there in the text.........."Cyttorak says things like that a lot.I suspect that,in this at least,he is unstoppable."..translation:he can't do shit about the serpent but talk a lot of shit!!!!I read the same handbook,and it said Cyttorak got beat-down by juggs!Hes NOT more powerful than the vishanti or Satan or shuma.Strange said dormammu was his most powerful enemy.Hell,Odin has better feats!!!Until we seen HIM actually fighting with someone,you guys gotta calm down!HA...more powerful than Tribunal..HA!

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cbnnexus

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@theworldeater:

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Here's what we know:

We know that Cyttorak is extradimensional - outside of the control or power of the Living Tribunal. In effect, Cyttorak is his own Living Tribunal. Now, does that make him more or less powerful? Who's to say. I would venture to say that in his own realm, Cyttorak is more powerful than the Living Tribunal. Having done more research, Cyttorak is on the level of Elder Gods / Old Ones. Which puts him far above Skyfather level. He is also outside of the Multiverse, and, as such, has put beings such as Galactus at his mercy. Which puts him above Cosmic Pantheon level. I have done more research and the numbers have changed somewhat (see image).

The fact is, Cyttorak has not affected the multiverse that much, and has not shown much of an interest to (other than the avatar contest of the Octessence). He is described as having infinite power, and being extradimensional - outside of the multiverse. For the sake of comparison, Class 2 demons such as Mephisto have their own realms, or portions of inter-dimensions within a given universe, as part of the multiverse.

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Theworldeater

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@cbnnexus: Simple question.If Cyttorak is so powerful,why wasn't he one of the great being who was killed by the boyonders?Answer:because the beyonders knew about the pecking order of power.The top marvel characters are the one above all,Tribunal,eternity/infinity,lord chaos and master order and the celestial s.They killed the celestials because not only are they just an extension of eternity,but there were sooo many of them!......okay get this......Lord chaos and Master order were killed because ALL MAGIC FLOWS FROM THEM!If they just killed eternity,the splinter realms might still survive,but if chaos n order die,then all magic under them would also die.Cut off the head and the body dies!!!!That means that ALL the realms,Cyttoraks,mephisto,vishanti etc. would die.That is why when the great powers were killed everything died!Remember,ALL OF MARVEL WAS RESET!It didn't say all of marvel except Cyttoraks realm!Hes powerful,but not that powerful.

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HighAccuser

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@theworldeater: Secret Wars 2015 doesn't give any indication on what the magical beings are doing considering many of them, just like The Beyonders can exist outside of the Marvel Multiverse

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HAVICKGREEN

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What people need to understand is that Cyttorak is Marvels Satan. And if you know DC, Dc actually has Lucifar. But Marvel has Cyttorak. He is a Principality a concept of Destruction and endless Destruction. Destruction will always be, always is and always has. Omnipotent is Destruction, this is why Cyttorak is 2nd most powerful because he is the true opposite of TOAA. He is the benevolent Entity of all Marvel. As long as villains, supervillains, neutral and destroyers of life continue to promote destruction, Cyttorak is ok with that, that is why he doesn't interfere, he doesn't have to. The very aspect of his purpose is constantly happening on every comic written. Cyttorak is Destruction and Destruction is promoted in every story written.

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#10  Edited By Darth_Nimrod

@havickgreen: No, Cyttorak isn't Marvel's Satan. In Marvel, Satan isn't a character, but a title, reserved for the "king of all demons", with many of them constantly competing for it. And if Cyttorak is so powerful, how come he took part in the Wager of the Octessence, in order to prove which of them was more powerful, because their previous efforts to determine that failed? Also, if he's so powerful, then why can't he escape from the Crimson Cosmos? And where did you get all that info of Cyttorak being the antithesis of the One Above All?

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kenshiroo

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#11  Edited By kenshiroo

@darth_nimrod said:

And if Cyttorak is so powerful, how come he took part in the Wager of the Octessence, in order to prove which of them was more powerful, because their previous efforts to determine that failed?

Cyttorak proved to be the most powerful and dominant of all extradimensional mystical principalities in the War of Seven Spheres, and through his avatar, the Juggernaut (who won the wager), swept the floor with them by knocking out several of them (avatars), such as: Bedlam, Decay, Conquest, Carnivore and Stonecutter in the Eighth Day arc. Not mention the Cyttorak's avatar destroyed the God machine by slamming it with the stonecutter’s body, who was locked out in arms and pushed back by the Juggernaut's strength.

Also, if he's so powerful, then why can't he escape from the Crimson Cosmos?

Cyttorak doesn't need to escape physically from the Crimson Cosmos because the Crimson universe is he in himself. Remember he is an abstract non-physical mystical entity with infinite magical energies, his destructive aspect only travels interdimensionally to conquer the fabric other realities via magical spells, portals or conduits as his avatar (the Juggernaut), and his god-like aspect searches to spread his fame in order to worship him. He is not interested in what happens to Eternity’s universe but he is interested to conquer it. Due all this, his attempts were serious and reiterated in the Devil's Advocacy of Mephisto.

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