The first X-Man, Scott Summers possesses the mutant ability to fire powerful concussive blasts through his eyes that act as a portal to another dimension full of the force that makes up his optic blast. He is visually distinctive for the ruby quartz visor he wears to control his devastating power. A born leader, Cyclops succeeded his mentor Professor X to command the X-Men.
"with or without cyclops the pheonix would have come and the new mutants would still emerge all he did was make mutants more hated in the process"
I've seen people saying this a lot. Do they forget that the Avengers always tought of the Phoenix as an evil entity and not part of the solution? They would simply have killed Hope. Without her both mutants and humans wold be doomed!
Their not forgetting it's on purpose . Like how a lot of the actions Namor did with wakanda which was of his own doing and their( the fan base thats against him ) blaming it on cyclopes when Emma coxed him to do that and Namor does that on a daily basis on his own before that. If some kid was eating cream on the beach and it went in the water and he'd come up to the surface and trash new york for it.
He did that often in the past with or with out the phoenix force. And the fact that the avengers went to wakanda for safety reminded me of that scene in the Micheal bay's transformers movie where the soldiers said to the Auto bots to head into a populated city to fend of the Decepticons from having the matrix . "What??? the hell wrong with you people?." that's what say to those soldiers and what i'd say to the avengers as well. yeah lets head to a populated area, with someone that has history of trashing cities with his tantrums (pre -phoenix force) chasing after us. . It'll be something to laugh about later and conveniently forget. About too.. After all it was the reason half the people in the MU chose iron man over capt America during civil wars end before he was shot during his trial . all due to the last battle being in the city where they said he endangered the civilians as their reason for him have to surrender. they turn on him cause of that.
I don't get the whole "Cyclops was Right. Cyclops saved the mutants" thing. No, he didn't. Hope did. She's the one who gave up her phoenix powers to help mutant kind. Cyclops kept his when, apparently, he could have sacrificed the power to reactivate the x-gene the world over.
Sounds a lot more like a selfish prick than a savior to me.
Cykes action upon saving the mutant race don't just stop at AvX it was before that... Dark reign, decimation Cykes leader ship & tough decisions kept them alive... when the purifiers, bastion & infinite nimrods descended on utopia's mutants...
& yes hope did save the mutant race... however she would have never got to that point had Cyke not resisted & fought the avengers. because there plan would have resulted in things spinning out of control. Cyke knew that the Phoenix was there to resurrect mutants the avengers thought it was there to destroy the world... the avengers then tryed to take hope off world (a place where she wouldnt have been able to save the mutant race) & ironman proceeded to blow the PF up which resulted in the main problem of AVX the P5....
basically... if the avengers would have worked with Cyke (a guy who was once married to the phoenix) instead of wolverine (a guy who still has a grudge cause he didn't get his way in schism) this would have came out better than it did....
over all Cyke is a hero.. hes just not looking that way cause he fought marvels leading team
You're way, way off. Cable showed Cyclops exactly what would happen if he didn't take this course. He showed him a future where the world is destroyed because the Avengers were allowed to do as they wished with Hope. He explained to him that he would have to go to war with the Avengers to see the good future come to pass.
He couldn't restore mutant kind with one fifth of the Phoenix Force, he needed the whole thing. In the meantime he flew around trying to fix every problem he could and give mutants a good image, but the other four unfortunately were weak. The Phoenix Force amplified their emotions, and three of them were former villains. Colossus was under Cyttorak's influence. By the time Cyclops finally got the whole thing, all four of the other chunks had already become corrupted.
Immediately before that, Emma informed him she was having an affair with Namor, and immediately following getting the four corrupted chunks, everyone on Earth he'd ever considered a friend or ally attacked him all at once.
Cyclops intended the force to go straight to Hope, the Avengers interfered. Reed Richards has a panel where Cap and Stark are discussing this, and he basically says right to Tony's face "You know this is all your fault, right?"
If events didn't proceed exactly as they did, not only would mutants not have gotten their power back, but the Earth would have been scorched. Cyclops was right. Cyclops saved mutantkind. He wasn't alone, and he had it on good authority, but at the end of the day you have to accept that simple, obvious truth. Cyclops was right.
Then they should try and contact Cyclops to voice their concerns about his actions and the repercussions. It's the X-Men who are looking for a fight with him. Cyclops doesn't oppose the X-Men's position, but they sure seem to oppose him. Where is it written that only the X-Men are allowed to help mutants, and only they get to decide how? To have a Civil War you need both sides trying to stop one another. They are under the assumption that approaching him will end in a fight.
How many mutants need to get arrested, persecuted, or worse waiting for the X-Men to start helping? This just looks like another example of having heroes oppose one another when a five minute conversation might help.
There's no reason for the government to come after the Jean Grey School because that school and Cyclops have never been affiliated.
I never saw the Avengers, Dr. Strange, Mr. Fantastic, or any other Marvel scientist or mystic trying to help the X-men find a way to restart the X-Gene. They didn't even raise a finger against the Purifiers after attacking the school and killing a lot of innocent children..
Doctor Strange actually did try to help. Beast when to him for help during Endangered Species but he wasn't sure what Wanda had done to the physical make up of reality, but he couldn't reverse it and he pointed out that he had indeed been trying and even looked into a whole host of alternate realities and he'd had no luck.
You're way, way off. Cable showed Cyclops exactly what would happen if he didn't take this course. He showed him a future where the world is destroyed because the Avengers were allowed to do as they wished with Hope. He explained to him that he would have to go to war with the Avengers to see the good future come to pass.
He couldn't restore mutant kind with one fifth of the Phoenix Force, he needed the whole thing. In the meantime he flew around trying to fix every problem he could and give mutants a good image, but the other four unfortunately were weak. The Phoenix Force amplified their emotions, and three of them were former villains. Colossus was under Cyttorak's influence. By the time Cyclops finally got the whole thing, all four of the other chunks had already become corrupted.
Immediately before that, Emma informed him she was having an affair with Namor, and immediately following getting the four corrupted chunks, everyone on Earth he'd ever considered a friend or ally attacked him all at once.
Cyclops intended the force to go straight to Hope, the Avengers interfered. Reed Richards has a panel where Cap and Stark are discussing this, and he basically says right to Tony's face "You know this is all your fault, right?"
If events didn't proceed exactly as they did, not only would mutants not have gotten their power back, but the Earth would have been scorched. Cyclops was right. Cyclops saved mutantkind. He wasn't alone, and he had it on good authority, but at the end of the day you have to accept that simple, obvious truth. Cyclops was right.
oh my god! Beast brings Cyclops to the present(future) to show him how messed up sh*t is then he goes back in time, changes his future, Cyke never lost it to the PF and thats why he's got that stupid red costume with the Xface
Cyke was and still is a hero. Just because he's not following Xavier's mission to the tooth doesn't mean he doesn't believe in it. He's not intentionally killing anyone like Wolverine (yet he seems to always get a pass), he defending the earth against the Celestials, and he is protecting mutants like he has been doing since he was young. He's even sending people to Wolverine's school, which shows he supports him. Like Cyke said before, someone needs to protect the mutants from outside attacks, and he would rather it be him than the school.
Probably going to have something to do with the costume change still to come. I foresee Cyclops becoming an Omega-Level mutant and he can now use his powers through more than his eyes. He'll probably be able to fly too lol.
Cyclops doesn't care about mutants he cares about powers. When the the mutants lost their powers they didn't die they simply lost the abilities. Sure they became human but they aren't dead the whole mutant vs human thing is way to played out and is seriously just starting to get old.
Cyclops doesn't care about mutants he cares about powers. When the the mutants lost their powers they didn't die they simply lost the abilities. Sure they became human but they aren't dead the whole mutant vs human thing is way to played out and is seriously just starting to get old.
well that just proves you didn't read any of the issues or any of the news on this site or any other site on whats been happening, This is what happens when do the reading of the comic's in a casual way. which shouldn't be a bad thing, but it sets you up to be corrected alot cause of what your saying is way off.
You do know that there were suicides from mutants that lost their powers on M day ,and alot of mutants that were students at the school were killed by the purifiers. and some that former were mutants were killed for being so too. by racist humans who attacked the school often. those are what they called them selves the purifers . they even attacked school bus's .
But hey what you just is that "no mutants died" right? Right ??? So what ever.. Where ever your info is coming from it's terrible.
Any way I hope cyclops makes it clear that he's not against normal humans ( saves the innocent ones of them too) just the ones that are murderers and he should show /provide evidence before taking action and as in he should do things that the law will understand like if he does have to kill it should be in self deference or in have to save a life of another person in a situation where there not another chose. like when he saved storm from Kandra the external. Other wise he should avoid that. if he can think of another he should always try that option. That was/ has also been mentioned of batman once. and most of the time he avoids it. There are case's where it's not avoidable and you need to save that life or lives at the very second. seriously the villain won't wait for you to stop while their ready to s trust a knife * what ever they want to use into some innocent persons body.
It was a mere temporary solution. Scott's antics along with the PF has only made things worse. No, its like you say, its a ticking time bomb now to something worse that will happen on down the line.
im curious if and how Iceman and the others will change. Will Omega level mutants be affected like the others?
also i find it interesting that in the recent years almost all other homo-sapiens off shoots have been killed off and now the mutants get yet another mutation that makes them more powerful. Yes it says their dying but we all know while some might die (probably summers) there will be survivors.
For people saying Cyclops had alternatives, no he didn't go read the issues again. It's easy as an observer and looking back to say "Well Cyclops could do this!" but that's not true, each time he ordered something dark/grey to happen his back was to a wall.
Also, "secondary mutations" were the dumbest thing to happen to the X comics in decades, and now they want to do tertiary mutations? The hell?!?
I think that not ALL of the secondary mutations were all that bad.
If they had kept it a bit more logical like simply evolving people like Beast; the more physical mutations becoming more physically mutated. I have to say that I definitely liked how he got altered and looks more like a real beast now.
However, I did not get how Emma Frost could somehow gain the power to become diamond in addition to her telepathic powers. It just seemed like the writer deciding, "Hey, let's give her a new superpower!"
That was overcompensation I think and a way more power boost than Emma deserved or needed.
Or if they did something more interesting like Ice Man's body was becoming more and more ice and if he had do something extreme like--exile himself to the North Pole to prevent himself from melting. That would have been an interesting side effect of the negative aspects of a secondary mutation. I thought that whole "psychological block" and "suppressing" thing was just a cheap cop-out.
For that matter, I haven't really seen a lot other secondary mutations. It just seems like a concept that fizzled and died as a weak attempt to explain things.
I'm not sure about this teritary mutation thing, it could be good, it could be bad. Depends how they decide to write it out. If it shows that there are definite bad points to Cyclops' decision to restart the mutant race, then it could be a good thing in my opinion. If mutants are going to be dying from his act, it's hard to justify himself as being "right".
Personally, I think Cyclops made a horrible judgment in my decision in deciding that the Phoenix was the answer. He claims that "it was worth it" but he wasn't the one who paid the price for his decisions. There are going to those who jump on me and say that he was trying to save his entire species, but the fact is that he was risking the rest of the population of humanity. In a sense, he viewed the human race as "expendable" or not simply the equivalent to mutants. He even viewed Charles Xavier's death was "a sacrifice" that was worth the restarting of the mutant species.
He has come a long way from being a true believer in equality between humans and mutants; in a sense he has become Magneto--believing in the superiority of the mutant species. Is it any wonder that Magneto has converted to Cyclops' side?
Technically Scott hasnt helped save mutant-kind, thats Hope's achievement. Actually Scott is currently just making everything worse for mutants with his whole idea of a revolution (not that they needed any other reason to go after him but, a group of superpowered mutants talking about revolution is not going to sit well with the government)
I think so as well. In a lot of ways, he is simply polarizing things and justifying the government in taking a harsher stance against mutants.
Looking at it from another angle, Scott killed Professor X, his powers are now under the control of one of the most evil people in the entire world and he now has the ability to bend all mutants to his will. Even if the mutation thing hasnt doomed all mutants this new threat may well do it instead. Ive tried to be as spoiler free as possible, apologies if anyone who hasnt read the issue yet managed to deduce what i was talking about...
Looking at it from another angle, Scott killed Professor X, his powers are now under the control of one of the most evil people in the entire world and he now has the ability to bend all mutants to his will. Even if the mutation thing hasnt doomed all mutants this new threat may well do it instead. Ive tried to be as spoiler free as possible, apologies if anyone who hasnt read the issue yet managed to deduce what i was talking about...
I know what you mean. Scott really messed up on thatsecond issue
I'm completely confused. Wasn't Scarlet Witch supposed to go around repowering the remaining mutants she could find? I know she repowered Rictor but thats the only case I remember. Has she just abandoned that whole quest of her's or has Marvel just forgotten about it?
Also Scott did save the mutant race, or are we forgetting Dark Reign? Mutant Messiah? All those unprovoked attacks on Utopia?
Yeah bit check out where this led him. He's now the Magneto to Wolverine's Professor Xavier. His methods to save the mutant race weren't all tha heoric. He could've gone another route and not become the biggest mutant terrorist since... well, Magneto.
I'd ask, whom exactly elected Logan Professor X? Don't get me wrong, I love Wolvie but this is forced. Decidedly so in recent months. I'd argue that Schism was at least slightly more organic, Wolverine had been through a lot involving kids, both his own and others. So Logan finally having enough and thinking that kids need to actually get a chance to be kids and that old dogs of war like himself need to carry the weight of any mutant conflicts now that things are stranger and more dangerous than in his kid sidekick days...that is believable. Logan having a lot of respect for Xavier...also believable.
But I'd argue that Xavier while he had a lot of faith in Logan, Logan himself has never had an over abundance in himself. It makes zero sense that he would think he's the one to run a school and even less that he'd start taking moral high ground on anyone. Many times Logan has said of himself that he's just an animal no matter how much anyone tries to make him a man. That's not to take away from his morality or his sense of honor, but rather to point out that Logan has always looked at himself in an unfavorable light and rightly so in some aspects.
Oh and let's not forget about all the less than noble things that Xavier himself has done.
Long story short, no one has been a saint in the X-verse for quite sometime but suddenly AvX is trying to get us to swallow that no one can remember anyone else's past or point out anyone else's hypocrisy. They're trying to paint the whole world in black and white, and that just doesn't usually work for the X-men the way that it might for other groups. Has Scott done some extreme things? Yes, yes he has. Was he some sort of vicious terrorist? I disagree.
If anything in my opinion less than stellar writing was trying to draw parallels with traditional X-Men statuses that haven't been the status quo for quite sometime anyway, and is failing pretty hard in my book.
Well first off, all this stuff about exposure to "scott" seems odd, since there were 4 other people with the phoenix. For all we know it could have been colossus that "doomed" the mutants. Another thing, it's pretty clear that no one could really handle the phoenix. Even hope the "designated redhead" could barely do it and that was with wanda's help. If it were five avengers that got the phoenix's power instead, things would have gone down pretty much the same way. The Avengers also have a couple mutants to be used as scapegoats.
Getting back to the topic and hand, Scott is seen as the representative of Mutants all over the world, a role that he was raised for and has accepted. So did his (and plenty of of other people's) desire for mutants to not be a dying species DOOM mutants as a whole?
I doubt it. If Scott had just handed hope over, tony would have used his machine to try and stop the phoenix and created *drum-roll*... The Phoenix Five, which becomes the Pheonix one...*Boom* Dark Phoenix.
If Scott didn't hand hope over, and Hope became the phoenix host without tony's machine she either becomes *Boom* Dark Phoenix , or "White Phoenix". Which could either be a huge force for good in the world or make dark pheonix look like a carebear by comparison.
Regardless of what Scott did here, someone would have become the Phoenix. Scott was a driving force in the Avengers fight with the X men, but even then their fight really didn't matter. All it really did was show them what the fans already knew, that they shouldn't have fought in the first place. If anything that dude from kun'lun that trained hope was much more influential than scott in the end since he actually prepared her to be a phoenix host. But I'm rambling here, has The Phoenix 5 that was Created by Tony Stark caused new mutants to go the way of X Men Forever?
There are a few of you who miss "Boyscout" Scott, but frankly, i welcome the change. Whether Bendis is destroying the character or bettering him... only time will tell. But at least he's doing SOMETHING.
As for Wolverine being the new Prof X and Cyclops being the new Magneto... Currently i dont think its come down to that (yet).
It feels to me more like Wolverine is the new Cyclops and Cyclops the new Wolverine.
Cyke had to be the "Boyscout" so that Logan could run X-Force and do the things that needed to be done. Now the roles are reversed. This was mentioned by the characters themselves in AVX Consequences. They are both now slightly out of their comfort zones. Logan having to keep up a good public appearance, whereas Scott has to always be careful he doesnt stray into "Magneto" territory.
The thing i find annoying about the Cyclops-Wolverine dynamic now is the inconsistency. When Logan visited Scott in prison, he raged and ranted, but ultimately relented. But in All-New X-Men, he's pissed again. Murderous even. Of all the X-Men, you would think that Logan would understand. What with his past, his experiences with being possessed, and his time with X-Force.
These are exciting times to be a Cyclops and X-Men fan. But i still can't help but to tread with caution. Again, only time will tell how things will unfold.
Oh and as a parting comment. I think current Beast is a much bigger douche than Cyke ever was.
Neither. If mutants re the next step in evolution, than the species will continue to grow. Evolution finds a way. All Cyclops did was worsen societal sentiment towards mutant by being a terrorist who claimed to be the leader for his species
I think some of u guys need to stop just listening to the scared X-Men at the Wolverine school, who just want to hide away in there little segregated school. Those are the X-Men who make things worse, because they accomplish nothing, and are crippled by fear.
Cyclops did not make people fear and hate mutants. This as been the problem since day one. Hiding and segregating themselves ain't ever gonna change that.
Cyke on the other hand is actually doing something. He's going out there and saving mutants, and making the public aware of it. He's not Magneto, he's not fighting for Mutant supremacy, but equality. He's saying guess what. Mutants are back, and they deserve every freedom as everyone else.
And who is that we've seen humans rally behind, who's face it on their signs in ANX 3?...Cyclops.
You're way, way off. Cable showed Cyclops exactly what would happen if he didn't take this course. He showed him a future where the world is destroyed because the Avengers were allowed to do as they wished with Hope. He explained to him that he would have to go to war with the Avengers to see the good future come to pass.
He couldn't restore mutant kind with one fifth of the Phoenix Force, he needed the whole thing. In the meantime he flew around trying to fix every problem he could and give mutants a good image, but the other four unfortunately were weak. The Phoenix Force amplified their emotions, and three of them were former villains. Colossus was under Cyttorak's influence. By the time Cyclops finally got the whole thing, all four of the other chunks had already become corrupted.
Immediately before that, Emma informed him she was having an affair with Namor, and immediately following getting the four corrupted chunks, everyone on Earth he'd ever considered a friend or ally attacked him all at once.
Cyclops intended the force to go straight to Hope, the Avengers interfered. Reed Richards has a panel where Cap and Stark are discussing this, and he basically says right to Tony's face "You know this is all your fault, right?"
If events didn't proceed exactly as they did, not only would mutants not have gotten their power back, but the Earth would have been scorched. Cyclops was right. Cyclops saved mutantkind. He wasn't alone, and he had it on good authority, but at the end of the day you have to accept that simple, obvious truth. Cyclops was right.
end of thread
how could he have doomed them, when the alternative would have been them not being around at all or in even fewer numbers than before...without anymore chances to restore the x-gene
I'm guessing if anyone has "doomed" anyone, it was Beast messing with the time-stream to pretty much just troll Scott. That man is insanely bitter. He straight up lied to the O5 about that "mutant genocide" stuff to get them to come with him. That said, I don't think there will be any permanent changes to the X-Men timeline (after all, when he left the Avengers books, Bendis pretty much put all of the toys back in the sandbox where he found them), but I guess we'll see.
I don't get what the X-Men (or mutants in general) would have against Scott. He was right about the Phoenix. He doesn't oppose Wolverine's school. He's not going around murdering innocent people. He broke out of prison, but arguably he didn't belong there anyway, and people were trying to kill him in there. He's still protecting mutants, pretty much what he's been doing since he was a teenager. He's sending a message that the persecution of mutants will not be tolerated. The fact that his former friends would hold against him what he did while possessed by the Phoenix doesn't say much about them. If characters start having to pay for crimes they commit when possessed or brainwashed, half the Marvel canvas should be in prison. The idea that most of the heroic mutants would be against what Scott's doing seems contrived, so I hope Bendis doesn't go in that direction.
@Lorrie: I see a dark future for Beast actually. Future and alternate versions of Beast have painted him as a villain. Dark Beast from AOA and "Sublime" Beast from Grant Morrison's final arc. And the way the character has been of late, i can easily see him going down a slippery slope.
As for what the Jean Grey School mutants have against Scott? My guess is... its because Scott "murdered" the professor. Someone who most X-Men see as a father-figure. Wolverine, Angel, and a whole bunch of other mutants have been possessed before in the past. And have even gone on to kill their fellow X-Men. But to my knowledge... none have "killed" the Professor and come back from it.
That is of course unless the Prof is not dead, but somehow Scott subconsciously moved him into his own psyche during AvX thus resulting in psychic backlash that has messed with his powers and those that were closest? you never know! its comics!
Depends on how you view it. Granted I know people will say if it hadn't been for him Hope wouldn't have fulfilled her destiny and yada, yada. But the ends don't always justify the means, plus even though it lead the way for Hope. He (along with the others) still made a terrible mess that put thousands or millions in danger almost putting him on the same scale he probably thought Wanda of being. Basically Hope had to clean up his mess; along with Wanda's but unlike Cyclops she's willing to admit she made her mess.
Ok, the only mutants we've seen signs of having altered powers were those who possessed the phoenix force, or fought against Cyclops when he was Dark Phoenix. Heck, even Wolverine was put down by a young Jean Grey as he said, "You know that mind stuff doesn't work...." He fought against Dark Phoenix Cyclops and that mind stuff seemed to work quite well. So far that's all we have to show the phoenix force has caused such changes, other than awakening x-genes. I don't think any other mutants will be affected the same way. But we won't be sure until time goes on and we can see if anyone else is affected.
"Is this what Beast meant when he told Cyclops' younger self that he needed him to stop the older Cyclops from committing mutant genocide?" Not a chance of what he meant. The phoenix force is already done and I strongly doubt Cyclops current state causes mutant powers to go haywire. The whole "stop yourself from committing mutant genocide" statement by Beast sounds more like a largely manipulative comment. Beast is scared of current events yeah, but he's also intelligent and knows how to spark a young Cyclops into action. In all reality though, I find this part just to be another example of very poor dialogue that we've seen from Bendis. I like where the story is going but so many times we've just been seeing really bad dialogue choices.
The main thing that's bugging me is the lack of continuity. In issue #1, we've seen Cyclops and Magneto use their powers normally, with Emma's help, to gather mutants. That happened before Beast decided to go get the original X-men to our time. Then 2 issues later they're just breaking Emma out and suddenly their powers are all out of wack?
Technically Scott hasnt helped save mutant-kind, thats Hope's achievement. Actually Scott is currently just making everything worse for mutants with his whole idea of a revolution (not that they needed any other reason to go after him but, a group of superpowered mutants talking about revolution is not going to sit well with the government)
Since when did the government need an excuse to persecute mutants? Cyclops did what he thought was best for mutantkind. Unless some precog told him his plan would end in failure, he would have had no idea what the consequences of his actions would be, except that the mutant race would be restarted. It was a gamble but at least he tried instead of just rolling over and doing nothing.
Cyclops is a jerk and he's made lots of mistakes; but fighting for the survival of his "species" wasn't one of them. The only thing worse than the populace's hate for mutants existence was the way humanity ignored their decline. One way or another they'll have to deal with mutants now instead of just complaining about them.
@jaydee98: Actually he didn't try to do anything in regards to mutants other than sending Utopia a mile into the air, the rest of his time appeared to be spent breaking weapons, beating avengers and try to make the world a better place. As for consequences, you didn't need to be a precog to know what would eventually happen when the Phoenix around. In regards to the government; I haven't seen them park tanks within sight of either Utopia or Westchester, what Scott is doing now could very well lead to that.
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