Before I reply to all your comments I would like to remind you that Cyclops himself admits that the things he has done are wrong, he himself believes he belongs in jail, so making the argument he did no wrong is just stupid.
@xeon1cs said:
@acer51 said:
He said he'd do it all again, meaning he'd kill Charles and the millions of people, just so he can bring back the mutants. The mutants arn't going to want those powers, there going to be feared and hunted. Cyclops just created loads of peril for an insane dream to bring progress to the so called "next step in human evolution".
What was the point of all this madness huh? What good did it do, Cyclops may have gotten what he wanted but lets not pretend he did anyone any favors.
All he did was bring the world into chaos with his war. Now thanks to him teenagers are going to burn in sentinel lazier because the "true mutant messiahs" Cyclops brought the mutants back.
So answer me this Viners? what good did Cyclops do?
Charles's death was 100% his own fault. There's no indication he killed millions of people when he was Dark Phoenix. The mutants didn't want the powers in the first place, oh well, it was a higher power that deemed it so. Even when mutants lost their powers after Wanda shit all over them, they were still hunted. It wasn't his dream. It was the Celestials.
What good did Cyclops do, uh...ended world hunger, gave free renewable energy to the world. Effectively created world peace. Stopped earthquakes (although this was a writer error, which they admitted was stupid, since this isn't scientifically possible). He was 100% fine as the Phoenix for the majority of this event.
Scott didn't restore mutants. It was already explained they were unable to reactive the X-Gene as long as the Phoenix was split among the five of them. The Phoenix was sent to Earth to get its host and restore mutants. They stated this in Uncanny X-Men. And Tony acknowledged he knew it was going to restore mutants in AvX Consequences #4.
What people aren't understanding is that, this may have been what Scott wanted. But it was 100% out of his hands. Mutants were going to come back, whether he wanted it or not.
100% his own fault?, Cyclops had too much power he was corrupting, it was clear the Phoenix was beating his morals down like the ring of doom. 1/5 power was too much, by the time he had 1/2 Emma Frost almost had him convinced to destroy the entire planet. And yes taking mutants powers away didn't help them, but there not giving the powers back. They are creating mutations in people who had no powers and maybe didn't even originally have an X-gene. But creating more mutants dosn't help the mutants who lost there powers, it hurts the people who had no problems to begin with but that's there problem right? 12 year old girls get burned at the stake because Cyclops "the higher power" gets to make that call huh? he gets to play god? No it was the Avengers fault it turned out this way but at that point Cyclops was out of control and had to be stopped. I do understand Cyclops reasons though, and he only has one good one, the prophecy that the rebirth of mutants would save the world, but such prophecy's were uncertain and isn't enough to justify Cyclops actions even if he did do it for a "greater good" the people who buy that crap are those who were on Iron-mans side in Civil war.
Read Uncanny X-men from Cyclops point of view where he contemplates on the moon, if you read it you can see how corrupting the phoenix was on him since the beginning, he said he couldn't feel emotion, he couldn't even feel love for his dead wife anymore, even at 1/5 he was struggling with himself. By the time he was at 1/2 he was considering destroying the world and eating human blood.
I know that he didn't do it himself, but it's what he wanted and his actions led to the end result.
And your right on that last point, mutants were coming back, there was no stopping this, but his actions during this event, and that he's glad he did the horrible things he did, even though he didn't need to pull any crap or even fight the Avengers the mutants were coming back, he just made chaos and killed people while he could.
@Sharkbite said:
Phoenix was coming. Cyclops did not create it. Cyclops did not summon it. Cyclops observed that it was coming. Blaming him for that is akin to blaming a Doctor if they discover you have cancer.
Phoenix was going to restart the mutant race. Nothing anyone was able to do demonstrated the even the faintest indication that it's mission could have been stopped; even when Hope took it on as a host, the options were to contain the power (and go all insane like previous Phoenixes until millions of people die) or break it up (which jumpstarts the mutants again). Given those two options, Cyclops opted not only for what was best for the Mutant Race, but also for the Earth as a whole. Yes, his plan involved some collateral damage, but he identified the plan with the least collateral damage possible. The Avengers plans (Hide Hope, Kill Hope, Tick off the Cosmic Force of Destruction, Give Phoenix Power to people who are not prepared to handle it, and Pick fights with the people doing remarkable good in the world because it's 'too much too fast') all stood to ultimately cause much, much more damage than Scott's plan of letting Hope handle it. In fact, essentially every bit of destruction that happened during AvX could have been avoided if the Avengers would have listened to the X-Men, who are the people on the planet that have the most experience dealing with the Phoenix. But Captain Ego couldn't accept that somebody else might know better than him.
Yeah, Chuck died. Chuck died when he went hunting down Cyclops. It's the ongoing theme of the story; the Avengers pick the fight, and Cyclops defends himself. Instead of blaming Scott for defending himself, the blame needs to be placed squarely where it belongs: either it's Xavier's fault for attacking Scott, or *gasp* it's Cap's fault for going out of his way to recruit Xavier and put him into that situation. Cap recruited him and sent him into a suicide mission that could not be won. Cyclops didn't kill Xavier; poor leadership and incompetetance from Captain America did.
And last Phoenix is a cosmic entity of destruction and rebirth. That is the Phoenix pattern: thrash everything, then build it back the way you want it. The Phoenix Force made it's will manifest in the conversation Scott had with Emma when it obtained greater control over them. The Phoenix Force wanted to destroy the entire Earth, then build it back perfect. While yes, there will be mutant conflict once again, and yes, lives will be lost to mutant villains and sentinels and everything else, ultimately no matter how many casualties are caused by the resurgence of mutants, it will not become worse than the option of Phoenix Destroys Entire Planet And Everyone Dies. Monday morning quarterback it all you want; there will be some negative fallout of the events, but this was the best possible outcome for everybody (mutant or human), and Cyclops pulled it off with the Avengers doing the darnedest to stop him and make things infinitely worse every step of the way.
Scott's the hero of the story. He can be painted as the villain for making the tough choices when every option hurts someone. Actually, with the garbage line-up for Thunderbolts in Marvel Now (using Punisher, Deadpool, and Red Hulk is not the same thing as using actual villains), Marvel is now lacking their Villains-You-Can-Relate-Too comic. I say take Cyclops, Magneto, Emma, and a handful of other people who still support them, and write a brand spanking new Brotherhood title following the mutants who are doing everything it takes to save the world, even when they have to fight against the Avengers to do it. It'd be nice to see somebody NOT want to join the Avengers after Cap's bumbling nearly destroyed the whole world.
My response is the same as my last lines typed in response to Xeon.
I agree and disagree with you on the first paragraph. Yes if the Avengers had trusted the X-men it probably would have been okay (altough I bellive this all had to take place for Hope to gain the strength to let it go). And as in my previous respone your right, the Phoniex was coming nothing was going to stop this. But considering this why is Cyclops happy that he killed at least hundreds of thousands of people? and don't say he can't be judged for his Phoenix force actions because he said he'd do it all again. And the Avengers weren't going to kill Hope (that was Wolverines idea). But they weren't going to do a better job at protecting her then the X-men so the Avengers are still wrong on this point, the Avengers actually stepped in at a point in an event that didn't help only made things worse.
Yes Chuck died, Chuck died only when it was clear Cyclops needed to be defeated, at that point he was actually considering destroying the planet, so I think it was justified for anyone (including the rest of the x-men) to step in once Cyclops had clearly become possessed. So is it Xaviers fault for helping the Avengers when HIS prize student is possessed, considering destroying the world and talking in extremely evil text? Yes I think at this point, despite Avengers stupidity it was justified for not only Xaiver, but the rest of the X-men to step in and take the Phoenix power from Cyclops. If you think at that point Cyclops was in his right mind, do you wanna buy a bridge from me?
The Phoenix actually isn't unstoppable, same way Galactus isn't unstoppable. However I do acknowledge the Avengers lack of ability to stop the Phoniex, and that they wasted time an resources on the X-men who were actually the good guy instead of trying to stop the phoniex from making it to earth.
Hero? no Hope was the hero. But Cyclops if he hadn't said he'd do it all again couldn't be blamed, because then you could just use the Phoniex possession argument, but Cyclops with that statement has taken responsibility for these actions, he did it to help fufil a prophecy though, maybe he's the antihero of this story?
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