Yeah, especially since this isn't turning into a childish flame war or anything, maybe people will also take it as a way for two people, with differing opinions, to discuss and talk about a topic with out "yelling" and insulting each other. Sadly, that seems all too common nowadays.
I've trimmed down a bunch of replies -- hope you don't mind, but it was mainly just us reaching agreement.
And yeah, this is a productive discussion I think. I do hope others may find it useful when this debate inevitably comes up again, either here or on another forum.
Fair enough. But, I would also like to add and/or clarify, about my opinion, that I don't really think it changes the character (in this case Cap) since, to me it's not really changing anything, but rather explaining how he has been able to do feats, in this case bullet dodging, that he has consistently been doing for years. But I also understand your point of view on it.
I guess I view it as unnecessary. All comic book peak humans seem to be able to dodge bullets, it doesn't require being enhanced or redefining "peak human".
Batman does this, as do other Marvel heroes besides Cap I'm sure. I'm just not as familiar with Marvel. I'm sure Black Widow can dodge bullets, Nick Fury has been doing it etc. For any street level heroes, this is a pretty basic and recurring feat. I'm sure we could find scans of Moon Knight dodging bullets, and he isn't even peak.
Okay. I except that for the bench pressing scan, but the other scans I've shown, he was not bench pressing, but lifting and many of them were significantly over 800lbs. and while admittedly he didn't lift them over his head the fact that he lifted them (the least of which was a hundred pounds over 800lbs) shoulder high with no visible strain would lend itself to evidence that he could lift over 800lbs above his head, I would think. If the absolute max is 800lbs, then I would think he wouldn't bee able to lift that much without any sign of strain. I admit this is my opinion, though.
The difference is in how he was lifting. When he lifts something at waist level, he has his entire back for support. He may have also been using his shoulders as a brace, as far as the poles were concerned. Lifting directly over your head without back or shoulder support would be much harder.
We can speculate, but from the feats posted he hasn't surpassed Marvel's peak human classification in terms of strength.
If you like, I can post this question on a fitness site and get a more detailed response, or I can probably find an article somewhere showing the weight limitations for different lifting positions.
I would also add in his reflexes as well, as it is stated in his bio, that he has near instantaneous reflexive speed. Also when concerning his healing, he is also immune to all terrestrial diseases, and alcohol and drugs. (interesting note, however, in the 80's Steve was caught in a drug lab explosion, and the drug did in fact effect him. I'm unsure of the actual circumstances involving the drug, as I've never read the story arc "Streets of Poison"). But yeah if the only proof that is acceptable is him literally lifting more than 800lbs over his head then, I admit I don't have any proof, just the weight of the scans I've already shown and my reasoning behind why I think it's still valid, which I've already admitted is just my opinion.
Which bio says that? The handbook doesn't rate him that highly as far as speed goes, and he certainly isn't anywhere near as fast as say, Spiderman.
I mean, to classify him as Enhanced, we have to show him doing something beyond the limits of the peak classification in each of the following categories:
- Energy Projection
I don't think people are really arguing that he is Enhanced when it comes to Intelligence or Energy Projection, so we can ignore those. I admit that he is Enhanced with durability as I'm guessing that includes healing
So really, it comes down to speed and strength to argue if he is beyond the limits of the peak classification.
For speed, there are solely 2 instances where his speed is stated as being above 30mph. These can be either dismissed as PIS, or rationalized as being possible due to extenuating circumstances, but very rare. Either way, it isn't enough to show that the character is beyond the peak classification.
Why? Because it's easy to find 2 examples of a character being written beyond their power limit for almost any character. It isn't enough to prove something unless it happens consistently, which isn't the case with Cap's speed as it simply isn't stated often enough.
So, then we have strength, where the limit is 800lbs lifted directly above the head. Which translates to about 1200lbs for benching. And anywhere in between/around that depending on the lifting position.
We've seen Cap benching 1100lbs, which supports the peak classification, and we haven't seen any strength feat that puts him in a higher category, or shows that he can lift more than 800lbs above his head.
So far, I see no reason to classify him as anything other than peak, with the exception of his healing.
On an off topic, I was looking through the Marvel Wikia you introduced me to (I was looking at the other "peak human" heroes that were mentioned, just for fun), I have to say it's really, pretty good. I only have one, I don't want to say complaint, but discrepancy, I guess is a good enough word. When concerning Deadpool, it says (about his strength) "he is able to lift at least 425lbs but no more than 800lbs" and he possesses a 4 on the grid. While Cap has the same max but is a 3. Really it's no big deal, since I think Deadpool's strength is in fact greater than Captain America's, but it was something I noticed. And honestly, that is really the only thing I've found so far that is a little off. Other than that it seems to be a pretty accurate site.
I'm glad you like it! There are some silly people who don't trust Wikis because they think anyone can edit them flippantly, which is pretty far from the truth. It's a really well maintained site, and they provide sources which tend to be either comic issues or handbooks.
As far as Deadpool goes, it could be a mistake, or from an earlier version of the handbook, or perhaps a newer version and the grid was changed but not the explanation. Not to say there are not some minor problems, but as you have seen on the whole, it's pretty reliable.
Why is this thread still going? He's superhuman. /end
Because it isn't that simple. It actually seems to be one of the most common, longest ongoing debates in comics.