So I recently read through the Wolverine vs Captain America thread and came up with a few questions (mind you I only read a few of the twenty-something pages). One factor or point that kept coming up was that Captain America was a better fighter than Wolverine. I know there were times Cap bested Wolverine in combat but what I don't understand is that Cap had combat training during the war then was frozen and I assume had more training with SHEILD. Wolverine has been alive for a very much long time. He has been in more wars than Cap and has been fighting most of his life. He also has had combat training as well form different teachers and organizations. My question is how is Captain America a better hand to hand fighter and has more training than Wolverine in such a smaller amount of time compare to Wolverine? I kind of see it as the same as Batman mastering over 125 different martial arts in a lifetime but even Bruce had more time to train and learn than Cap did.

Captain America isn't a better hand-to-hand fighter than Wolverine. He showcases skill on a more consistent basis, but Wolverine knows more when it comes to technique and when he does wish to fully utilize it, he has the edge in that regard. 

@k4tzm4n: That makes more sense

Cap is a better fighter because he is more disciplined and in control when fighting. Wolverine has been known to fly off into a berzerker rage and that lack of control can be used against him in battle.

Also noted in a few books out there (Spidey vs. Cap during the Civil War comes to mind) is Cap's ability of anticipation, he's always thinking two moves ahead of his opponents, and you can see that when Cap triumphs in hand-to-hand combat it's usually this characteristic that ends the fight. For evidence of this, also see his encounters with Taskmaster.

Wolverine is perhaps the most skilled mortal fighter in the Marvel Universe (he isn't called "the best there is" for nothing), but it could be said that Cap is right behind him (he's held his own just fine against Wolverine on multiple occasions).

Yeah but isn't wolverine the one who's always saying that?

Wolverine is a better fighter and martial artist then Cap but he's not the best even amongst mortal there are better martial artists then him.

Cap is Adept in every martial arts known to man, he's a master strategist and tactician. Wolverine has had as much experience as Cap but his memory has been messed with several times. Cap can also learn fighting styles quicker than the average human.

Cap is a better stratagist, better at thinking on his feet, better at using his opponent's strengths against them, he DOESN'T have a healing factor so he's had to learn to fight BETTER than someone who does. Both of them are world class warriors, but as has been proven in many wars, the side that is willing to die for what their fighting for has a distinct advantage over the one that doesn't. Wolvering probably does have a little more skill and training, but he's also almost always had his healing factor to back him up when he fails, Cap hasn't. Cap has to make sure he does it right the first time EVERY time, or he dies. That's why Cap wins. Added to that, the super soldier formula has increased his physical abilities beyond (not sure HOW far) normal human levels.

Who knows?

The SSS was also able to increase Steve's brain function in the sense that he can learn things a lot faster than normal people. I can't remember the issue, but I remember someone ( I think it was Beast), saying Cap can master any weapon in seconds. While I think it was a possible exaggeration, it does help that notion. Cap learned quite a few martial arts (and he himself has even stated he knows all of them, but it seems to not be true as well) that were necessary and mastered them in a short amount of time. He himself could potentially become an even better MA fighter than he is now based on his ability to grasp things so easily, but he would have to apply himself to that. In comparison to Logan at this point, he isn't better, and even Wolverine has started showing off Earth based fighting prowess when he started using pressure points on aliens when he studied their anatomy. Cap has to catch up if he wants to be better, but the SS formula has left that window open.

This scan?...

It should also be noted that even Black Panther is impressed by Cap's fighting abilities, He states...that Cap "adapts to every situation and every fighting style instinctively...

And Black Panther has been stated to know every martial art in the world, so there may be some creedence to Cap's statement of being adept at every form of hand to hand combat known to man...

Just Sayin;... :-)

@tg1982: Those are all the scans or moments I mentioned in my post, save for Cap vs Panther. Still doesn't mean I have to believe Cap knows every fighting style. And the Panther one says he instinctively adapts, not willingly adapts, which makes a difference and that should mean Cap does get an edge over every person he fights skillwise, which isn't clearly the case.

@god_spawn: I know. I was agreeing with you. I was just posting them mostly for other viewers. I do feel that in most cases Cap does have an advantage against every person he fights skillwise (in the MU), the only exceptions are those who are equal in skill and physicallity such as Black Panther, who has on many occasions been stated as Cap's equal both pysically and skillwise, and Wolverine who is, IMO, better skillwise (how much he utilizes it over his being able to tank hits due to his HF is open for debate from others who know him better) and in most physical aspects. Or others who have a special ability, such as Taskmaster. Of course this is just my opinion.

Also for the record (not directed at you) I'm not saying he's an expert or master at all forms of H2H combat, since being adept encompases varying degrees of knowledge and skill in whatever aspect it is used to describe, from merely proficient to master, so I believe he is at least proficient in all forms and a master of many, how many, is obviously open for speculation. But I would say more than what most posters give him credit for, and more than just the boxing, and judo in Marvel's outdated bio page of Cap. Again this is just my opinion.

@tg1982 said:

@god_spawn said:

The SSS was also able to increase Steve's brain function in the sense that he can learn things a lot faster than normal people. I can't remember the issue, but I remember someone ( I think it was Beast), saying Cap can master any weapon in seconds. While I think it was a possible exaggeration, it does help that notion. Cap learned quite a few martial arts (and he himself has even stated he knows all of them, but it seems to not be true as well) that were necessary and mastered them in a short amount of time. He himself could potentially become an even better MA fighter than he is now based on his ability to grasp things so easily, but he would have to apply himself to that. In comparison to Logan at this point, he isn't better, and even Wolverine has started showing off Earth based fighting prowess when he started using pressure points on aliens when he studied their anatomy. Cap has to catch up if he wants to be better, but the SS formula has left that window open.

This scan?...

It should also be noted that even Black Panther is impressed by Cap's fighting abilities, He states...that Cap "adapts to every situation and every fighting style instinctively...

And Black Panther has been stated to know every martial art in the world, so there may be some creedence to Cap's statement of being adept at every form of hand to hand combat known to man...

Just Sayin;... :-)

I've have always enjoyed this one Cap won this fight but it should be noted both were handicapped(not at 100 percent). But I like how Steve is so focused that in combat he can sense the change in air pattern.

@krauser99 said:

@tg1982 said:

This scan?...

It should also be noted that even Black Panther is impressed by Cap's fighting abilities, He states...that Cap "adapts to every situation and every fighting style instinctively...

And Black Panther has been stated to know every martial art in the world, so there may be some creedence to Cap's statement of being adept at every form of hand to hand combat known to man...

Just Sayin;... :-)

I've have always enjoyed this one Cap won this fight but it should be noted both were handicapped(not at 100 percent). But I like how Steve is so focused that in combat he can sense the change in air pattern.

Yeah, because of them both holding back, I never use it as a "Cap beat Black Panther" feat, I only use it as a "Black Panther is impressed with Cap's ability to adapt to every fighting style and situation" feat. Which gives credence to Cap being adept at all forms of H2H.

Understood. I wasn't trying to say you implied it was a legit victory for Steve. No were did you even mention that. Just letting other posters know that Steve did "win" that fight. And that they were both holding back.

Yeah. I get you. I didn't think you were implying that at all, bro. We good.