I like to think that the true gods of the comic universes as an enigma. However, PR Beyonder pops up in my mind and destroys this notion.

1. No
2. Yes, all of them.

1. No. TOAA is powerful than PRB.
2. Yes. even The Living Tribunal was powerful than PRB/
3. Yes

PR beyonder was suposed to be above omnipotence somehow............

1. No2. Yes, all of them.

I dont like the fact that a mere man "molecule man" was able the stand up to him.

No, he was never truly that powerful. His former "super-feats" were simply his imagination.

He Killed Death, so yeah he was omnipotent.

Only when Jim Shooter is writing

Nobody is more powerful than The One Above All.

@King_Anti_Monitor said:

1. No. TOAA is powerful than PRB. 2. Yes. even The Living Tribunal was powerful than PRB/ 3. Yes

@Devias said:

I like to think that the true gods of the comic universes as an enigma. However, PR Beyonder pops up in my mind and destroys this notion.

1. Was PR Beyonder truly equal to the TOAA?
2. Can any of the true gods of the omniverses (TOAA, Presence, Man of Miracles) beat PR Beyonder?
3. Can anyone, the true gods of the omniverses notwithstanding (TOAA, Presence, Man of Miracles) beat PR Beyonder?

1. no one can tell, if he was less powerful than TOAA or equal, PR Beyonder was stated by Stan lee to be omnipotent, but the meaning of omnipotent is debatable.

2. it would be mostly stalemate.

3. no, it would be stalemate.

i read all of the replies here, and i can tell that most of them say lies or assemptions. but no clear evidence to anything.

Firstly, PR Beyonder was never defeated in combat, no one can defeat him. what happened in the last issue of Secret Wars 2 is not a defeat.

2nd : Living Tribunal isn't stronger than PR Beyonder who say that is either a delusive or an ignorant. PR Beyonder is stronger than all Marvel universe and its beings combined by far.

3rd. PR Beyonder was stated clearly to be omnipotent in almost every issue of Secret Wars 1 & 2, so you can't deny it, and he was controling the existence of all Marvel Universe by merely his imagination, no one in the moderne comics is witt such power except TOAA.

4th. who said that PR Molecule Man was able the stand up to him,is also wrong!! because Beyonder was limiting his powers, and he stated that he didn't want to hurt him, and also Molecule Man stated himself that the infinite difference in power between him and Beyonder is like the infinite difference between Captain America and Molecule Man. can you imagine that Captain America could stand up to Molecule Man?? it would be shamefully ridiculous to say yes.

5th. PR Beyonder was TOAA before TOAA was established, there was no character of TOAA before or at the time of Secret Wars 1 & 2.

6th. Beyonder was TOAA before creation or with more precise words, he was God before genesis, as the writer and ex Head of Marvel HQ Jim shooter said.

7th. according to Stan Lee PR Beyonder was TOAA of his own actuality, the purpose of his original existence was to explain the existence of the other comic companies and their own universal laws and structure with their own supreme beings.

So what is the conclusion, the PR Beyonder is the God of an other reality beyond Marvel Universe, just like DC Universe, Image Universe, Shueisha Universe, Wildstorm Universe. which make him pretty likely as omnipotent as TOAA, Presence, and Man of Miracles.

Yeah the_mighty_beyonder answered it he was infact a omni.

What happened in secret wars 2 was indeed a defeat, he allowed a situation that he could be defeated!That is not an omnipotent being.This tells me he is not perfect,like God(or T.O.A.A in the marvel universe.Also,I can sense that the pre-retcon Beyonder will be back in the next secret wars.And eventually fight Thanos with the infinity gauntlet,it will be the ultimate pay per view of all time!!!!

If Beyonder is weaker than TOAA, what was TOAA doing when Beyonder took ovee marvel multiverse and became God? Doesn't that mean TOAA is also not omnipotent?

@josephgomes619: he wasn't created yet

based on feats he is far powerful than One above all . He is billion times powerful then Marvel creation ( omniverse )

And if someone thinks Pre-retcon Beyonder is not the most powerful, I'll give you a list that proves it:

- He's beyond Time and Space.

- Beyonder was ALL that existed outside the Multiverse.

- Just by Beyonder thinking to much....Suns implode..Worlds collide...Parallel Dimensions collapse

- The ENTIRE Watchers race agrees to interfere with the Beyonder...this is UNHEARD OF.

- Beyonder has the Living Multiverse begging him to not kill Multi-Death. He did it anyway. Death is ERASED across the entire Multiverse. Beyonder recreates Multi-Death out of nothingness.

- Beyonder was the Living Embodiment of Supreme Power.

- It was said that Beyonder was millions of times more powerful than ALL the rest of the Multiverse combined.

- Beyonder had power over Souls.

- Many knew Beyonder was the Ultimate Being. This included Darkchild, Hercules, Magneto, Doctor Doom, Professor Xavier and Doctor Strange.

- Beyonder obliterated a Galaxy over 4 billion light years away. Then exploded another.

- Beyonder contained an explosion that would have disintegrated the Micro-verse. Then re-created what the explosion was able to destroy.

- Beyonder manipulated reality in Microverse.

- Beyonder destroyed 3 Jupiter size planets with a gesture.

- Beyonder changes Hulk's destiny...it's because of the Beyonder that we read Hulk today...Hulk was lost in a realm even Dr Strange could not find.

- Beyonder resurrected Time Bomb..after she disintegrated herself.

- Resurrected Kang.

- Resurrected Dazzler.

- Beyonder re-created Scion of the Micronauts.

- Beyonder created a machine than can resurrect beings (Like the New Mutants).

- Beyonder had absolute control over the past, future and present. Remember Doom from Secret Wars? That was a future version of Doom which no one knew...taken from a future that only existed because of Beyonder.

- Beyonder could have caused the entire Time Stream to collapse all together.

- Beyonder erases from existence a space armada that comprised of over 30,000 advanced civilizations. Death and Mephisto will never savor those billions of souls...because due to the Beyonder they never even existed.

- Beyonder warped Reality into many possible futures.

- Beyonder explored the Entire Multiverse...while sitted in his hotel suit.

- Beyonder gave the Multiverse 24 hours of time before he will erase it (Isn't that cool to be able to say I give existence 24 hours to erase it...and be able to do it).

- Beyonder scans the Entire Earth in an instant. He did the same thing with the Multiverse itself.

- Beyonder was going to transform all the New Mutants into Universes...they refused his offer. So he erases them all...

- The Puma is a being that can actually sense the power level of other beings...he says he practically overloaded by reading the smallest portion of power of Beyonder.

- Beyonder vs the X-Men including the Phoenix Avatar (Rachel)...Beyonder is yawning during the "confrontation".

- Rachel Summers uses ALL the power of the Phoenix Force. Beyonder didn't even flinch.

- Beyonder beats down a bunch of Celestials (hand to hand).

- Galactus at Full Power attacked Beyonder. He repelled him like a bug.

- Living Tribunal, a being who is one or two steps below One-Above-All was afraid of Beyonder and was among the cosmic beings who pleaded to Molecule Man to stop Beyonder.

- Beyonder shattered Pre-retcon Molecule Man's protective Dome like a joke...it was stronger than the Multiverse combined.

- Beyonder causes destruction across the entire Multiverse. Pre-retcon Molecule Man repaired the Multiverse with one finger while calming the Beyonder down.

- The Watcher had to beg the Molecule Man to stop the Beyonder. He finally accepts.

- They do war...the most powerful beings Marvel ever created.

- Beyonder let's out a blast that reaches the ends of the Multiverse. Again the Molecule Man does the impossible...not only does he shield all the heroes that were at the scene while battling the Beyonder...but he also removed EVERY living thing that was in the blast's path across the Multiverse...and placed them somewhere in sub-space.

- The incredible ending...everything Beyonder did...he did it while imposing limitations on himself.

If this doesn't prove he is omnipotent, then I don't know what. User: Mikhail Mxyzptlk 4:17, April 14, 2011 (UTC

By the definition of what Toaa is, the writer, he cannot be matched by Beyonder, as everything the Beyonder did was written by a writer, and was retconned by a writer.

@stahlflamme: HE WAS BEFORE GENISES, MEANING BEFORE MARVEL MULTI VERSE WAS CRRATED... SO BEYONDER WAS =

TOAA EVEN WHEN MARVEL DONT EVEN KNOW A TOAA WAS!... PRE RETCON BEYONDER WITH THOUGHTS.. DID EVERYTHING TOAA COULD DO BUT REMEMBER BEYONDER STILL CONTAINED HIS POWER ALOT TO NOT KILL EVERYTHING

Toaa is a real world writer including the writer who wrote down everything Beyonder did. Beyonder was nothing before a real world writer wrote him down and the first comic about him was written. Do you think this fictional character can destroy the Marvel universe, if a writer doesn't write it down and an artist doesn't draw it? That is obviously not the case. Everything Beyonder is, how much he holds back, what he can do and whatever else is all so because a writer wrote it so obviously he is not more powerful than them unless you wanna claim he actually exists in real life.

@stahlflamme: LOOK MAN.. HES FROM THE BEYOND... HES BEYOND EVEN THE WRITTERS POWER OF WRITTING... I BELIEVE ITS STATED AS SUCH WHEN HE HAS SO MANY FEATS OF BEYOND POWER... AND HE WASNT EVEN USING ALL HIS PRE RETCON ABILITIES... AND TOAA DINT EXCIST WHEN PRB WAS AROUND... SO THE IDEA OF TOAA TO HAVE MORE POWER THEN AN ENTITY THATS BEYONDER BUT ALREADY ALREADY CANON THAT TOAA MULTI VERSE ISNT EVEN MORE THEN A DROP IN AN OCEAN COMPARED TO THE BEYOND....SAYS IT ALL

@gildardovillarruel: no character is more powerful than the writers that's literally the dumbest thing

@rpgesus: IF THE WRITTERS FROM THEN MADE HIM SPECIFICLY FROM THE BEYOND REALM OF THE WRITTERS.. BEFORE GENESIS... BEFORE THE IDEA OF TOAA, THEN YOURE LEFT WITH AN OBESE DISGUSTING WRITTER THAT THE BEYONDER WOULD ALWAYS OVER COME CALL IT A WRITTERS DAMNATION! U ARE AN IDIOT IF U DONT UNDERSTAND

@gildardovillarruel: *thinks a fictional character is more powerful than real life writers*

*calls others an idiot*

@rpgesus: WHAT PART DONT U UNDERSTAND... THEY BROUGHT THE IDEA OF A WRITTER BEING TOAA, BUT WE ALL KNOW A WRITTER DIES, HIS IDEAS DIE, HIS THOUGHTS ARE CLOUDED, MAYBE THE BEYONDER WAS THE MANIFISTATION OF SOMETHING THE WRITTER CAN NEVER UNWRITTE, THE BEYOND POSSIBILITY HE IN HIS OWN CREATION IS BUT THE SERVENT OF A GREAT BEYOND ENTITY! *SMART ENOUGH?

@gildardovillarruel: a fictional character is not more powerful than real life writers who have retconed that beyonder into being a bitch version of the real beyonders.

@rpgesus: BEYONDER IS THE IDEA THAT NO CREATION, A WRITTER, A HERO CAN OVERCOME. ONLY RETCON THAT HAPPEND WAS BEYONDER DOING IT TO MARVEL... BECAUSE ONCE THAT POWERFUL, COMPLETELY POWERFUL.. THAT BEYOND POWERFUL.

THERES NO UNWRITTING THAT. THE IDEA PROBABLY HAS CAUSED THEM MANY SLEEPLESS NIGHT LIKE FLAKO THE MAD WRITTER... BUT THATS THE BEYONDER IN FULL POWER AND BEYOND.

@gildardovillarruel: http://www.parentcenterhub.org/repository/foradults/

@rpgesus: whats that? HIS MANIFISTATION ONTO URE LIFES STRUGGLE?

@gildardovillarruel: look you are a new user, and I get that. But you do NOT compare fictional characters to nonfictional ones. Without the idea behind toaa (the writer/marvel itself) there would be no beyonder. It would be different if it was the prescence or miracle man, already established omnipotent a which if toaa wasn't there, they would be unaffected. Without toaa, the beyonder wouldn't exist, because beyonder is a part of toaa. Without marvel, it wouldn't matter if the beyonder came from an alternate multiverse or not, because no one would know about him and he wouldn't exist. The beyonder is still part of the marvel omniverse, which toaa rules over.

@battle123axe: OBVIOUSLY YOU NEVER STUDIED POETRY, LITERATURE, THE MINDS BLOCKAGE OF GREAT WRITTEN PARAGHRAPHS, ESSAYS, BOOKS, COMICS... WHAT THEY WROTTE WHEN THEY FIRST WROTTE THE BEYONDER WAS THE MOST POWERFUL BEING EVER, BEYOND THE WRITTERS CONTROL, HENCE WHY HE WOULD BE STATED AS BEING MORE POWERFUL THEN THE WHOLE MARVEL UNIVERSE BY A MILLION TIMES, AND YES THEY TYPED IN PHYSICALLY HIS STORYLINE BUT MENTALLY TO DAMM YOURE MARVEL UNIVERSE BY A MILLION... IS THE MANIFISTATION OF A GREATER MAN IN CONTROL. THE BEYONDER IN CONTROL. THE WRITTER NOW IS BUT HIS SECRETARY..

i used to think beyonder was omnipotent until doom took his powers. If he was omnipotent the beyonder and Doom would both have powers

@natedwag: YEAH BEYONDER IS TO POWERFUL FOR SUCH AN EQUIPMENT... IF HE ALLOWS IT, THEN IT CAN BE ~BEYONDER

WHY ARE YOU TYPING IN ALL CAPS. I FEEL AS IF YOU ARE YELLING AT ME

@natedwag: I HAVE THIS THING.. THAT IF I DONT TYPE IN CAPS YOU WON'T KNOW IM ACTUALLY YELLING ~BEYONDER

@gildardovillarruel: what part of this do you not understand. (i actually have a major in english literature and i am in teachers college, so calm down) THE BEYONDER IS FICTIONAL. THE WRITER IS NONFICTIONAL. DO NOT COMPARE FICTIONAL CHARACTERS TO NONFICTIONAL ONES. what part of WITHOUT THE CONCEPT OF TOAA THERE WOULD BE NO BEYONDER. even if marvel meant for the beyonder to be a force outside the marvel universe, guess who came up with the character, and the idea. THE WRITER. if the writer so wishes, the beyonder could be a two headed clown doc who's only power is the ability to die. please, give feats that beyonder surpasses marvel itself, I DARE YOU.. use some common sense and listen to people who know more than you.

P.S.: until you reach at least 100 posts, no one will really take you seriously, you will always be "that noob that writes in all capital letters and beleives a fictional character is more powerful than a nonfictional one"

Jeez.

@gildardovillarruel: 1. ha that was actually funny.

2 you are not the beyonde.

3. typing in caps makes you seem like an idiot who doesn't know how to use a computer. you can convey feelings of frustration and anger without TYPING IN CAPS.

4. you must actually be a nice and smart person, but let's just agree to disagree, but i am open to further debate. who is your favorite comic book character.

plz dont say beyonder. if you do, i will scream I TOLD YOU SO!!!!! at myself.

@battle123axe: WHAT ARE YOU THAT NOOB THAT AMIST A FUCEN GREAT PARAGRAPH YOU FALL BACK IN THIS MAKE BELIEVE NOTION TOAA AS AN IDEA DINT COME FROM, FROM THE GREATER OF THE TWO... ENTITYS.. THE BEYONDER.? AND WHAT BEYONDER REPRESENTS, TEACHERs PET, IS THAT HE WAS FROM BEYOND HIS IMAGINATION, THE WRITTERS.. OBVIOUSLY UR A FUCEN LIAR AND A DEGENERATE IDIOT. PLEASE STUDY MORE POETRY, ON HOW A WRITTER MAY WRITTE A POEM BUT HE WAS NEVER ITS CREATION IN THE FIRST PLACE *CONCEPT, AND ITS WELL DOCUMENTED IN ALL HISTORY U FUCEN PATHETIC 100+ POST MAN LOL

@battle123axe: WELL FIRST CAPS IS MAINSTREAM. IVE READ A MILLION BOOKS WITH ALL CAPS AS FONT.. NOW TELL ME.. WHOS THE IDIOT NOW?

WELL SECOND.. BEYONDER IS A REPRESENTATION OF BEYOND THE IMAGINATION, THUS BEYOND A MILLION TIMES OR AN OCEAN WHILE MARVEL WAS JUST A DROP OF WATER IN IT.

SECOND I MEAN FOURTH. WHILE I WANT TO SAY THANKS.. I WONT ~BEYONDER

AND U SEEM COOL TOO.. SO I GUESS OBVIOUSLY HULK.. I BELIEVE TO BE THE SECOND STRONGEST COMIC BOOK CHARACTER

@gildardovillarruel: what is WRONG with you. i have made reasonable arguments, given you information on the general attitude of comicvine, and even tried to make friends with you, but yet you still continue to spout idiotic nonsense in all caps, no less. you are being special. I did not EVER say that toaa was greater than the beyonder, i said that the idea of toaa is greater than the beyonder. listen,, i am not going to argue with you about whether i have a major or not, because only i and some other people know. listen, without the writer, there would BE NO BEYONDER. THE BEYONDER WOULD NOT EXIST. the writer is above the beyonder, because, as i have stated time and time again, that trying to claim a fictional character is greater than the author that made him is rediculous. so are you trying to say that the beyonder is greater than marvel itself? fool.

ps: you will eventually get banned, until you get over 25 posts, you are not allowed to post more than 5 posts a day.you can get higher, but then the punishment is more severe.

you call me an idiot, so says the idiot who cant not write in caps. as i said, there are other ways to express rage and frustration without using caps.

@gildardovillarruel: thank you. let's just agree to disagree and be friends? i love the hulk, he is my favorite character.

lets not argue about toaa or beyonder, and instead, go on to more fufilling purposes.

p.s. sorry for calling you names, it is just that i got agitated. very sorry.

@battle123axe: WELL LET THEM BAN ME MY WRITTEN EXPRESION IS PUBLIC NOW.. LOL.. ALSO READ A BOOK AND TELL ME HOW MANY OUTTA TEN ARENT WITHOUT CAPS LOCK?

I STILL BELIEVE HE IS BEYONDER SECRATARY.. THE WRITTER.. HE MIGHT OF BEEN THE REASON WHY MARVEL WAS CREATED AS A COMIC BOOK.. TO UNRABLE THE TRUE POWER OF WAS IS BEYOND UNDERSTANDING AND THUS ALL OUR IMAGINATIONS.

YES HE IS THE MAN.. HULK... SO HOW TRUE IS IT THAT HE GETS HIS POWER FROM ALL MULTI VERSE?

@gildardovillarruel: ok, yes if we try to comprehend it our brains will explode.

hulk gets his power from the liitless nuclear and dark magic power of the multiverse, he also has the capability for infinite rage, so also has the capability for infinite power. he will probably never get to that level though and thats ok.

@gildardovillarruel: didn't toaa retcon the Beyonder?