Who is Batman's second greatest enemy?

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#51 Posted by RustyRoy (16610 posts) - - Show Bio

@thejman251: Well you have to agree that Joker as Batman's greatest enemy is the most popular opinion about his number one villain, that's why the OP asked about the 2nd best enemy or else this thread would've been filled with Joker's name.

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#52 Posted by thejman251 (437 posts) - - Show Bio

@rustyroy said:

@thejman251: Well you have to agree that Joker as Batman's greatest enemy is the most popular opinion about his number one villain, that's why the OP asked about the 2nd best enemy or else this thread would've been filled with Joker's name.

- I'd say that it's the most common opinion and yet, still not a fact.

- He could have easily posed the question without heavily implying that the joker is factually Batman's greatest enemy. "Who do you think is Batman's greatest enemy, not including the joker?" or something along those lines would have been a better way to phrase the question in my opinion.

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#53 Posted by Bobsjonjon (251 posts) - - Show Bio

Egghead

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#54 Edited by RustyRoy (16610 posts) - - Show Bio

@rustyroy said:

@thejman251: Well you have to agree that Joker as Batman's greatest enemy is the most popular opinion about his number one villain, that's why the OP asked about the 2nd best enemy or else this thread would've been filled with Joker's name.

- I'd say that it's the most common opinion and yet, still not a fact.

- He could have easily posed the question without heavily implying that the joker is factually Batman's greatest enemy. "Who do you think is Batman's greatest enemy, not including the joker?" or something along those lines would have been a better way to phrase the question in my opinion.

I'm not saying its a fact but its close enough, ask anyone including writers, artists, directors, media people or the general public, 90% of them will answer its Joker. Though I get you're point.

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#55 Edited by Black_Claw (3375 posts) - - Show Bio

Defnitely Ra's Ah Ghul.

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#56 Edited by thejman251 (437 posts) - - Show Bio

@rustyroy said:

@thejman251 said:

@rustyroy said:

@thejman251: Well you have to agree that Joker as Batman's greatest enemy is the most popular opinion about his number one villain, that's why the OP asked about the 2nd best enemy or else this thread would've been filled with Joker's name.

- I'd say that it's the most common opinion and yet, still not a fact.

- He could have easily posed the question without heavily implying that the joker is factually Batman's greatest enemy. "Who do you think is Batman's greatest enemy, not including the joker?" or something along those lines would have been a better way to phrase the question in my opinion.

I'm not saying its a fact but its close enough, ask anyone including writers, artists, directors, media people or the general public, 90% of them will answer its Joker. Though I get you're point.

- I understand that it's probably the general opinion or consensus however, that's still an opinion at the end of the day.

- I'm fine with most people believing this as long as they don't attempt to impose their opinion as a fact on others.

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#57 Edited by tupiaz (2259 posts) - - Show Bio

Due to the personal relationship Batman had with Harvey Dent I would go for Two-Face.

@ngroove said:

Penguin.

Ra's? Sorry people, he's a great, although boring, character and all, but there's like one Ra's story over the years, between every six Jokers, three-four Riddlers / Two-Faces / Scarecrows, and recent and for several years, seven-eight Penguins. Even Clayface, whom I definitely would not say is Bats' greatest foe, due to his brutish nature, like Penguin, has lately been seen almost every month somewhere, while Ra's? Until Batman Incorporated 10, last seen to my knowledge, issue 2, and did not do anything remotely menacing to Bats in both!

Quality over quantity. How many times your appear as an enemy is not the way to measure the significance as enemy it is how well you appear and what impact you have on the hero.

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#58 Edited by Eternal19 (2178 posts) - - Show Bio

Definitly Ra's Al Ghul. And to all the people saying Bane what great story arc has Bane had other than Knightfall? Bane is like Doomsday he accomplished his peak at the beginning of his career.

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#59 Edited by drgnx (3975 posts) - - Show Bio

A rogue Superman!

It is rare but always epic which just want the 2nd worst enemy should be!

Seriously: Top 3 enemies (well 3 of the top 5-7) should consist of a

1) A clone with different morals

2) Someone who challenges your greatest attributes/strength and forces you to rely on your secondary/third level traits to beat them

3) Someone uses a completely different set of attributes from you

I would say to have 1 show up a lot, one show up occasionally, and one rarely but epicly

Joker seems to boarder 2&3 but Ra's and Riddler seem to cover 2 very well.

Clayface and Croc would cover mainly 3, and Owlman would cover 1. Sadly don't consider these in the top 3

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#60 Posted by Bruxae (18147 posts) - - Show Bio

Ra's, with Bane a close third.

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#61 Posted by entropy_aegis (20955 posts) - - Show Bio

Definitly Ra's Al Ghul. And to all the people saying Bane what great story arc has Bane had other than Knightfall? Bane is like Doomsday he accomplished his peak at the beginning of his career.

I dunno? how about Bane of the Demon/Bane.But seriously going by that logic what major defining,memorable story arcs does Ra's have?

The Doomsday comparison doesn't hold up,it's used by those who have only base level knowledge on both characters.

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#62 Edited by UncleEmu (197 posts) - - Show Bio
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#63 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

Pre-New 52 Red Hood

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#64 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (9130 posts) - - Show Bio
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#65 Posted by Eternal19 (2178 posts) - - Show Bio

@eternal19 said:

Definitly Ra's Al Ghul. And to all the people saying Bane what great story arc has Bane had other than Knightfall? Bane is like Doomsday he accomplished his peak at the beginning of his career.

I dunno? how about Bane of the Demon/Bane.But seriously going by that logic what major defining,memorable story arcs does Ra's have?

The Doomsday comparison doesn't hold up,it's used by those who have only base level knowledge on both characters.

Doomsday is a plot device who cant do anything but punch stuff, If you think Doomsday is a great villian then you must not read much superman comics. Neither Bane nor Doomsday are great villians in my opinion. The ressurection of Ra's Al ghul and the fact that the Al Ghul family has affected batman more than any other villian besides the Joker. Thats why he's a great villian.

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#66 Posted by PunyParker (15722 posts) - - Show Bio

Joel Schumacher.

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#67 Edited by Alexander505 (2998 posts) - - Show Bio

Ra's or Strange.

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#68 Posted by RustyRoy (16610 posts) - - Show Bio
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#69 Edited by PunyParker (15722 posts) - - Show Bio

@rustyroy said:

@punyparker said:

Joel Schumacher.

He's on the top.

Indeed.....even Joker is afraid of him.Him and IRS.

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#70 Posted by Black_Arrow (10296 posts) - - Show Bio

bane or ras they are in the top

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#71 Posted by entropy_aegis (20955 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@eternal19 said:

Definitly Ra's Al Ghul. And to all the people saying Bane what great story arc has Bane had other than Knightfall? Bane is like Doomsday he accomplished his peak at the beginning of his career.

I dunno? how about Bane of the Demon/Bane.But seriously going by that logic what major defining,memorable story arcs does Ra's have?

The Doomsday comparison doesn't hold up,it's used by those who have only base level knowledge on both characters.

Doomsday is a plot device who cant do anything but punch stuff, If you think Doomsday is a great villian then you must not read much superman comics. Neither Bane nor Doomsday are great villians in my opinion. The ressurection of Ra's Al ghul and the fact that the Al Ghul family has affected batman more than any other villian besides the Joker. Thats why he's a great villian.

WTF are you talking about? when did I praise Doomsday? I hate that character.I already conceded on Ra's being the second greatest Batman villain and I have read every single Doomsday,Bane and Ra's story.There are much better Ra's stories out there than the badly managed,editorial driven Resurrection.

Also why are giving Ra's credit for what Talia(al Ghul family) has done? He himself hasn't affected Batman as much.

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#72 Posted by Zeeguy91 (1625 posts) - - Show Bio
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#73 Posted by biospike (7 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

ra's al ghul

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#74 Posted by Eternal19 (2178 posts) - - Show Bio

@eternal19 said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@eternal19 said:

Definitly Ra's Al Ghul. And to all the people saying Bane what great story arc has Bane had other than Knightfall? Bane is like Doomsday he accomplished his peak at the beginning of his career.

I dunno? how about Bane of the Demon/Bane.But seriously going by that logic what major defining,memorable story arcs does Ra's have?

The Doomsday comparison doesn't hold up,it's used by those who have only base level knowledge on both characters.

Doomsday is a plot device who cant do anything but punch stuff, If you think Doomsday is a great villian then you must not read much superman comics. Neither Bane nor Doomsday are great villians in my opinion. The ressurection of Ra's Al ghul and the fact that the Al Ghul family has affected batman more than any other villian besides the Joker. Thats why he's a great villian.

WTF are you talking about? when did I praise Doomsday? I hate that character.I already conceded on Ra's being the second greatest Batman villain and I have read every single Doomsday,Bane and Ra's story.There are much better Ra's stories out there than the badly managed,editorial driven Resurrection.

Also why are giving Ra's credit for what Talia(al Ghul family) has done? He himself hasn't affected Batman as much.

you said that the example I gave was only given by people who have base knowledge of both characters. Which implied that you think doomsday is a better character than i said he was. Ra's raised Talia didnt he?

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#75 Posted by guttridgeb (4881 posts) - - Show Bio

Ra's

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#76 Edited by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

I would go with Ra's, due to his tendency for greater scope in well laid plans.

Bane would get third place for his planning capabilities, that are smaller in scope than those of Ra's, but he makes some of that up through the danger he poses in person.

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#77 Edited by entropy_aegis (20955 posts) - - Show Bio

@eternal19: I stated that the Bane/Doomsday comparison was brought up only by people with only a base level knowledge on both and it's absolutely true.
Also while Ra's raised Talia,it doesn't however mean that he should get credit for what she and Damian have brought to the Batman line,Damian's own creator said that he didn't like Ra's at all.

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#78 Edited by ngroove (327 posts) - - Show Bio

Again, Penguin

The more versatile, the more used - probably the 2nd most used, behind Joker, Bat-nemesis in all comics, non-movie merchandise, and television.

Seriously, the greatest, most celebrated, Bat-Villains, for over 45 years, are:

Joker

Penguin

Catwoman (DO NOT pull that "she's not a villain anymore Bullcrap: as long as every single Bat-Show that has her and Batman Returns still immortalizingly cemented her general portrayal to the public)

Riddler

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#80 Posted by fenixREVOLUTION (921 posts) - - Show Bio

Gotta be Grant Morrison, look at what he's done to Bruce over the years.

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#81 Edited by Eternal19 (2178 posts) - - Show Bio

@eternal19:

I stated that the Bane/Doomsday comparison was brought up only by people with only a base level knowledge on both and it's absolutely true.

Also while Ra's raised Talia,it doesn't however mean that he should get credit for what she and Damian have brought to the Batman line,Damian's own creator said that he didn't like Ra's at all.

So, you're saying that Doomsday is more than just rage monster who punches stuff. Because i think most would disagree with you. Doomsday is a very one dimensional character. While Bane is a much better character than doomsday, compared to other batman villians he is very meh in my opinion.

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#82 Posted by The_Lunact_And_Manic (3296 posts) - - Show Bio
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#83 Posted by entropy_aegis (20955 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@eternal19:

I stated that the Bane/Doomsday comparison was brought up only by people with only a base level knowledge on both and it's absolutely true.

Also while Ra's raised Talia,it doesn't however mean that he should get credit for what she and Damian have brought to the Batman line,Damian's own creator said that he didn't like Ra's at all.

So, you're saying that Doomsday is more than just rage monster who punches stuff. Because i think most would disagree with you. Doomsday is a very one dimensional character. While Bane is a much better character than doomsday, compared to other batman villians he is very meh in my opinion.

Yes Doomsday is a crap character.Also Bane is meh compared to who? Freeze the guy with the same story,or Black Mask who's just a one dimensional ripoff or Riddler who's just comedy.

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#84 Posted by entropy_aegis (20955 posts) - - Show Bio

@ngroove said:

Again, Penguin

The more versatile, the more used - probably the 2nd most used, behind Joker, Bat-nemesis in all comics, non-movie merchandise, and television.

Seriously, the greatest, most celebrated, Bat-Villains, for over 45 years, are:

Joker

Penguin

Catwoman (DO NOT pull that "she's not a villain anymore Bullcrap: as long as every single Bat-Show that has her and Batman Returns still immortalizingly cemented her general portrayal to the public)

Riddler

This is a comicbook board with people who are knowledgeable,and yet your arguments are similar to those who haven't read a single comic and are going by mainstream appearances.

Catwoman is not a villain period,Riddler hasn't done anything in years period,Penguin is mostly laughed upon period.

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#85 Posted by dngn4774 (5600 posts) - - Show Bio

If you count in Batman inc. has Talia surpassed her father as an arch nemesis of Batman?

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#86 Posted by Eternal19 (2178 posts) - - Show Bio

@eternal19 said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@eternal19:

I stated that the Bane/Doomsday comparison was brought up only by people with only a base level knowledge on both and it's absolutely true.

Also while Ra's raised Talia,it doesn't however mean that he should get credit for what she and Damian have brought to the Batman line,Damian's own creator said that he didn't like Ra's at all.

So, you're saying that Doomsday is more than just rage monster who punches stuff. Because i think most would disagree with you. Doomsday is a very one dimensional character. While Bane is a much better character than doomsday, compared to other batman villians he is very meh in my opinion.

Yes Doomsday is a crap character.Also Bane is meh compared to who? Freeze the guy with the same story,or Black Mask who's just a one dimensional ripoff or Riddler who's just comedy.

I think Freeze is a good villian, Snyder showed us the newer version of him recently and i think their are many stories that can be created using him. I agree Black Mask isnt interesting at all, but he isnt even a major villian in batman's rogues gallery. Riddler is much more than comedy, I honestly feel that Riddler is more interesting than bane.

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#87 Edited by entropy_aegis (20955 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@eternal19 said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@eternal19:

I stated that the Bane/Doomsday comparison was brought up only by people with only a base level knowledge on both and it's absolutely true.

Also while Ra's raised Talia,it doesn't however mean that he should get credit for what she and Damian have brought to the Batman line,Damian's own creator said that he didn't like Ra's at all.

So, you're saying that Doomsday is more than just rage monster who punches stuff. Because i think most would disagree with you. Doomsday is a very one dimensional character. While Bane is a much better character than doomsday, compared to other batman villians he is very meh in my opinion.

Yes Doomsday is a crap character.Also Bane is meh compared to who? Freeze the guy with the same story,or Black Mask who's just a one dimensional ripoff or Riddler who's just comedy.

I think Freeze is a good villian, Snyder showed us the newer version of him recently and i think their are many stories that can be created using him. I agree Black Mask isnt interesting at all, but he isnt even a major villian in batman's rogues gallery. Riddler is much more than comedy, I honestly feel that Riddler is more interesting than bane.

Read everything with Freeze,Bane and Riddler(post-crisis),neither Freeze or Riddler come close to Bane when it comes to character development or villainy.Freeze has the same goddamn story and Riddler is most of the times just a joke and he gets rebooted every once in a while cause writers have no clue ho to depict him.

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#88 Posted by GunGunW (1026 posts) - - Show Bio

The Penguin

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#89 Posted by dngn4774 (5600 posts) - - Show Bio

@eternal19 said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@eternal19 said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@eternal19:

I stated that the Bane/Doomsday comparison was brought up only by people with only a base level knowledge on both and it's absolutely true.

Also while Ra's raised Talia,it doesn't however mean that he should get credit for what she and Damian have brought to the Batman line,Damian's own creator said that he didn't like Ra's at all.

So, you're saying that Doomsday is more than just rage monster who punches stuff. Because i think most would disagree with you. Doomsday is a very one dimensional character. While Bane is a much better character than doomsday, compared to other batman villians he is very meh in my opinion.

Yes Doomsday is a crap character.Also Bane is meh compared to who? Freeze the guy with the same story,or Black Mask who's just a one dimensional ripoff or Riddler who's just comedy.

I think Freeze is a good villian, Snyder showed us the newer version of him recently and i think their are many stories that can be created using him. I agree Black Mask isnt interesting at all, but he isnt even a major villian in batman's rogues gallery. Riddler is much more than comedy, I honestly feel that Riddler is more interesting than bane.

Read everything with Freeze,Bane and Riddler(post-crisis),neither Freeze or Riddler come close to Bane when it comes to character development or villainy.Freeze has the same goddamn story and Riddler is most of the times just a joke and he gets rebooted every once in a while cause writers have no clue ho to depict him.

So if a writer doesn't know what to do with a character it's the character's fault, not the writer's? That seems pretty illogical. If a writer can't utilize a character to its full potential it shouldn't mean that the character is flawed. Granted there is only so much you can do with characters like Kite-man but The Riddler certainly doesn't fall into that category.

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#90 Edited by Arkhamc1tizen (2320 posts) - - Show Bio

Damian

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#91 Posted by BatWatch (5487 posts) - - Show Bio

@dngn4774:

I agree that characters have more potential than what particular writers can bring out of them, but at the same time, it is relevant to a discussion of how big of a threat they are to Batman. I mean, if writers consistently protray them as minor threats to Batman, it make little sense to say it is otherwise.

@eternal19

On the other hand, I think Bane is a bit overrated. Other than Knightfall, he has never succeeded in damaging the Bat.

For more news, reviews, and commentary for the entire Bat Family, check out BatWatch.net.

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#92 Posted by Reignmaker (2484 posts) - - Show Bio

Two Face. Without question. Outside the Joker, Two Face has been in more quality Batman stories than any other villain. He's also a part of Gotham which I think is important. That's not a criteria that Bane or Ras Al Ghul can meet.

I think Penguin was #2 for a long time, but ever since Batman made the transition into a more serious, dark narrative, Penguin lost a bit of his footing. He now plays this role where he's a poor-man's Kingpin and I think it's an effective place for him. But Two-Face has definitely supplanted him since the Frank Miller era.

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#93 Posted by CheeseSticks (2867 posts) - - Show Bio

Two Face. Without question. Outside the Joker, Two Face has been in more quality Batman stories than any other villain. He's also a part of Gotham which I think is important. That's not a criteria that Bane or Ras Al Ghul can meet.

I think Penguin was #2 for a long time, but ever since Batman made the transition into a more serious, dark narrative, Penguin lost a bit of his footing. He now plays this role where he's a poor-man's Kingpin and I think it's an effective place for him. But Two-Face has definitely supplanted him since the Frank Miller era.

This. I really don't see all the love for Bane and Ra's. Penguin and Two-Face are far better villain for Batman.

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#94 Posted by entropy_aegis (20955 posts) - - Show Bio

@batwatch: Bane has had only 6 stories as a villain every since he was created.Knightfall,Legacy, Azrael:Angel and the Bane,Knight terrors,Hourman(JSA Classified) and currently Talon and every single time he was a major nemesis.

Knightfall:Broke the Bat

Legacy:Became Ra's al Ghul's heir,almost succeeded in destroying Gotham Twice in the same story.

Azrael:Almost succeeded in breaking JPV.

Knight Terrors:Terrible story but he had Batman and Gotham beaten.

Talon:Killed Calvin the moment he showed up.

He also had both the Hourmen beaten in the JSA classified arc.

Other than that he's been an anti hero and occasionally hero,but every time he shows up as a villain he almost always manages to beat the hero and only loses due to plot devices(in Knightfall and Azrael lost due to miscalculations involving venom,lost thanks to Flash in Knight Terrors,Calvin will most likely return using the Talon formula,same goes for Hourman ),Legacy was the only time he was beaten fair and square.

So I'd like to end the myth that Bane hasn't done anything since Knightfall,frankly if Knightfall is the benchmark then Bane is only surpassed by Dr Hurt and Joker with the al Ghul's coming close.The remaining Batvllains aren't even on the radar.

@cheesesticks:

Probably cause Bane and Ra's have actual accomplishments,and are much more developed characters in addition to being highly consistent.

@dngn4774 said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@eternal19 said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@eternal19 said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@eternal19:

I stated that the Bane/Doomsday comparison was brought up only by people with only a base level knowledge on both and it's absolutely true.

Also while Ra's raised Talia,it doesn't however mean that he should get credit for what she and Damian have brought to the Batman line,Damian's own creator said that he didn't like Ra's at all.

So, you're saying that Doomsday is more than just rage monster who punches stuff. Because i think most would disagree with you. Doomsday is a very one dimensional character. While Bane is a much better character than doomsday, compared to other batman villians he is very meh in my opinion.

Yes Doomsday is a crap character.Also Bane is meh compared to who? Freeze the guy with the same story,or Black Mask who's just a one dimensional ripoff or Riddler who's just comedy.

I think Freeze is a good villian, Snyder showed us the newer version of him recently and i think their are many stories that can be created using him. I agree Black Mask isnt interesting at all, but he isnt even a major villian in batman's rogues gallery. Riddler is much more than comedy, I honestly feel that Riddler is more interesting than bane.

Read everything with Freeze,Bane and Riddler(post-crisis),neither Freeze or Riddler come close to Bane when it comes to character development or villainy.Freeze has the same goddamn story and Riddler is most of the times just a joke and he gets rebooted every once in a while cause writers have no clue ho to depict him.

So if a writer doesn't know what to do with a character it's the character's fault, not the writer's? That seems pretty illogical. If a writer can't utilize a character to its full potential it shouldn't mean that the character is flawed. Granted there is only so much you can do with characters like Kite-man but The Riddler certainly doesn't fall into that category.

1 writer okay,2 okay,3 okay but when EVERY SINGLE one of them fails to do something decent with the character that's when you realize that the fault lies with the character and not the writer.As far as Riddler is concerned the writers have no clue how to portray him.One second he's a master strategist,then he's a criminal mastermind,no wait he's a PI,and goes on and on.

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#95 Edited by FlareOut (12 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that this thread has had too much bogus for the day. Ra's over Bane? BULL! Also Riddler and Cobblepot make very good canidates. Two-face. NONE OF THIS RA'S CRAP.

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#96 Edited by Stronger (5051 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman 's enemies:

1.Joker

2.Ra's Al Ghul

3.Bane

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#97 Edited by JMan616 (10 posts) - - Show Bio

If we're talking about overall standing in the pantheon that takes into account the amount usage by publication and popularity with fans that has fluctuated throughout the years. Roughly it could be broken down as....

Golden & Silver Ages: Penguin

Bronze & Dark Ages: Two-Face

Modern Age: Riddler

Throw in your bets at who gets the position next! Lol Granted you might be able to make a case that due to her consistent use throughout the years, never really ever falling out of favor, and big unique relationship with Batman that Catwoman at least deserves a mention as a contender when it comes to the grand scheme of things. Though classifying her as a "villain" per se has become harder and harder as time has gone on. Haha

Anyway, if we're going with who gets portrayed as the second most deadly in recent times it probably ranges between Ra's al Ghul, Bane, and I guess Hush.

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