It's been quite a while when we had a Batman with a genuine sense humor that wasn't a parody. Or a Batman that wasn't afraid to express his genuine fears. Do people really have problem with Tom King's Batsy? Yeah, sure, naked Bane - what the is that all about?? But other than that, he gets the character. The guy should write more and more comics about iconic superheroes in this style. It would be refreshing.

Naked Bane? Really? That’s not the what the griping is about.

King has great ideas but the execution is done poorly over and over again. Additionally, the dialogue is NOT good, it’s bad.

I am not enjoying his run I'll be honest. Keeping up with Batman comics is feeling more like a chore than hobby right now

Repetition, repetition, repetition. Yeah he nailed it...he got that hammer for sure.

@zhangthong12 said:

It's been quite a while when we had a Batman with a genuine sense humor that wasn't a parody. Or a Batman that wasn't afraid to express his genuine fears. Do people really have problem with Tom King's Batsy? Yeah, sure, naked Bane - what the is that all about?? But other than that, he gets the character. The guy should write more and more comics about iconic superheroes in this style. It would be refreshing.

How could you possibly say this nonsense then post...that page?

King's Batman is an emotionally stunted manchild that's about as far from "getting the character" as possible.

You know maybe King's ideas would've made more sense if he applied them to a young Batman just starting off. But as mentioned the way his Batman, talks, acts, interacts and thinks is not befitting a character who has accumulated a decade plus of experience. While King hasn't made him Bat jerk there's no doubt that his Batman has regressed to the pre Morrison era. This dead parents non sense really needs to stop now, his Batman is just boring at best and unlikable at worst. While the average King fan will harp about psychological complexity or whatever I dont care. I cant find myself rooting for Batman, I dont care about his mission (if he even has one in this run), King's Batman is not cool. King knows it too, which is why every once in a while he overcompensates like having Batman beat up Deadshot and Deathstroke. But its phony and forced, King has made me not care about my own favorite character. No writer has ever done that, even the rubbish runs never lose sight of making a character endearing to the reader. King's Batman is unremarkable and a damaged person, a point which King relishes in constantly highlighting. I honestly think he dislikes the character really. Ofcourse for the King fan all this becomes equivalent to displaying humanity and brilliant psychology because unremarkable = human and damaged = complex lol but for me it means that he sucks at writing the character altogether.

I also have no idea why Bruce and Selina are engaged, they've known each other for years, they've slept for years, she knows his secrets. If they want to marry then just fricking marry, King is wasting time and issues. His story has pretty much stopped altogether since I AM Bane . So in addition to writing the lead character as bland and unlikable King's story has slowed to a crawl, there are no cool villains to challenge, the supporting characters have vanished altogether. This run just frustrates to no end, infact I hesitate to even call it a run, a run has a story, Batman has no story right now. Virtually nothing has happened in the last 18 issues, if this was monthly book then King's tardiness would be far more obvious. Maybe the Ivy arc will get the book back on track (in terms of progression), for now however I'm more than happy to read COTN, WK, Batman/TMNT and Shadow/Batman where actual stories are being told.

King is a good writer. But a bad match for this book.

Good for DC for going out of their comfort zone, but it's time to get a real vet back on board.

Bring in Mark Waid to write the main Batman book.

I literally couldn't have said it better myself, as Aegis pretty much expressed my exact feelings on Tom King and his farce of a run better than I ever could.

I'd like to add one thing though. King has stated that he envisions his run to last a hundred issues, and allegedly he has the story figured out all the way up to this hundredth issue, but as Aegis stated, the story hasn't moved since the end of the Bane arc, and even that is kind of a stretch. This entire run so far has been only about getting Batman married, and every single issue has been spent to justify the whole engagement thing. Not sure why King seems hesitant to just get it over with, given his already established marriage fetish that he brought to all of the books he wrote so far (e.g. Vision, Miracle). Even I, someone who loathes Catwoman and believes she is one of the worst and most redundant characters in the Batman mythos, would want the marriage to happen just so that the story could move forward. The only answer I can think of is that King is just padding. I don't believe the things King has been doing with Batman will stick after he leaves since every other book seems to be ignoring it entirely, in addition to the fact that he obviously doesn't have as much of the story figured out as he claims to, so padding his run to stick around longer seems to be his strategy at this point.

I have no idea how well King is actually doing with Batman at the moment, but at what point do you guys think we could be looking at him getting replaced ? Every where I look all I see is people raving about his run, but it does seem like his work is pretty polarizing in general. I think his Miracle book is somehow alleviating a lot of the potential criticism he could be receiving for Batman, as it looks like King is the new hot thing in comics right now, so nobody wants to go hard on his work. However, the sales are not exceptional, definitely not as good as Snyder's. So I am not sure what's the earliest point at which he could get replaced given the facts. I am hoping it's sooner rather than later.

King is a good writer but his dialogue, characterisation and overall narrative on Batman has been abysmally poor for the most part. He is not a good fit on a character like Batman despite his supposed psychological complexity themes in King's Batman. The Bat-Cat marriage is being painfully dragged out and he writes Batman being absurdly overdramatic and takes the 'damaged orphan with dead parents' cliche too far. It's a miracle King's Batman can actually do his job.

Well batman is ruined

@lvenger: exactly. You know, on most forums people are ranting and raving regarding his work on Batman and yet reviewers state that it’s fantastic. Heck, some are even comparing his work to the likes of Moore(TKJ), Morrison, etc. lmfao

Weird how there’s such a huge discrepancy between fans and prof. Reviewers.

@eto: I've seen plenty of comparisons from reviewers and they're definitely unwarranted. A lot of comic reviewers probably have to be positive in general otherwise DC and Marvel wouldn't give the sites they work for previews and interviews. But they overlook a lot of obvious problems with King's Batman just because he's the current hot new talent just like Snyder was during the New 52.

I was never the biggest Snyder nut either and I do think his work is overrated but his run was written competently.

King's work is abysmal, the flaws not only jump out but they keep repeating themselves. I think maybe that's the point, King has admittedly shown awareness about his work unlike Snyder but with King its all about keeping his style no matter how flawed. Fanboys identify him by his style ( repetition, 9 panel grids etc)so for him its all about signing his own work. He's compelled to use his stylized ticks even if they result in huge technical flaws. King' Batman is not about Batman its about King.

I've always enjoyed Snyder's work, but I did think it was a tad overrated. King's run however has given me a whole new appreciation for Snyder's work, in addition to Metal putting Snyder's entire run in a different light. So I might not agree with everything Snyder's done in terms of execution, and appreciate all the stuff he did for the Batman mythos. Contrast that with King who so far has utterly failed in adding anything to Batman, and seeing his attitude about the character in general, is very unlikely to contribute anything at all.

I don't believe that King is actually aware of how awful his run is. He tries to make it seems like he is self aware but throwing in some half hearted jokes here in there, mostly consistent of HAR HAR ISN'T BATMAN STUPID, but nothing else really. That one panel with the dead horse is far too smart and self aware for King to be on purpose. The guy is clearly buying into his own hype, and he even boasted about erasing the work that Snyder's done. King is all about making his writing seem deeper than it actually is, and that dumb fanboys are unfortunately buying into it, either because of King's hype or for shipping reasons.

I'd also like to point out that the solicits for this run have either been frustratingly ambigious or just outright incorrect. Take this for example:

“SUPERFRIENDS” part two! The stunning conclusion to the two-part story. Torn apart by betrayal, Batman and Superman try to find a way back to friendship, to trust. Both understand that the future of the DCU depends on this relationship; both understand that without the help of the other, their lives will fall apart. And yet, one is still the spoiled rich boy, and the other is still the naive farm boy. Men from two worlds confront each other and try to see the hope behind the madness

In the actual issue fans got a double date with cross dressing. Here's one for the Diana issue:

SUPERFRIENDS” finale! Since the beginning, the friendship between Batman and Wonder Woman has stood at the heart of the DC Universe. Now that friendship is coming apart, and as it does the universe itself begins to crumble. Don’t miss the conclusion of Batman’s epic team-up with Wonder Woman!

Lol the universe sure as heck isn't going to start coming part. Its a repeated pattern in this run. An honest synopsis wouldn't hurt anyone King. I can understand using this tactic occassionally when the writer is due to deliver a major twist that he doesn't want spoiled but even then there's the redacted spoiler solicit for that. Repeatedly writing the wrong summary for even filler arcs is bullshit plain and simple.

I'll ask once more since it seems that no one noticed the question the first time.

How long do you think King will stay on Batman, and realistically speaking, what is the earliest point at which DC could be looking for a replacement ? Do you think he is staying on the book beyond 2018 ?

Of course I am only expecting educated guesses here from those who have been following this kind of news longer than I have.

My God you think?

If it keeps selling well, yes.

@enzo991: King said awhile ago that he wanted to do a hundred issues at Batman so he is willing to go that far, the only hope is that DC decides to move him from the title. I don't think that DC is going to do it.

@black_arrow: I know King wants to stay on the book for a hundred issues, but do you think DC will give him that ? I am not sure of how well his book is selling seeing as it's not selling exceptionally well for a main Batman book, but since the sales of all other books are lagging far behind, it's difficult to say whether DC might see that as a negative or a positive. King is definitely not selling as well as his predecessors that's for sure. I think his book is selling due to the Batman name and that's it. I don't believe the Bat/Cat shippers account for that much sales to be honest.

I am hoping that since DC seems to be willing to switch and change writers around, that they decide to shake up the Bat office a little. We have new writers coming into DC, especially big names like Bendis, and there have been many rumors about Hickman potentially doing something for DC. The company is going though a lot of changes, so I'm hoping that it could mean a change is coming for the Batman book, given how King did nothing to justify staying on one of the most lucrative books DC have under their banner.

This is my line of thinking, but admittedly I am not very knowledgeable in the business side of DC and how they manage their writers. That is why I thought maybe someone here can give me a better idea on our chances of seeing King replaced. Something to keep the hope alive.

I've only been picking up current Marvel stuff with a few DC comics in the mix and i'm so used to Marvel relaunching and re doing books hahah, at least his run will be consistent.

I don't get it: he doesn't really want to be here, we don't want him here, he has a decent second comic that he's writing, why is this run still going?

@enzo991: It's pretty hard to know what DC might do, because we also have to factor the Graphic novel sales which might be pretty good considering that King's run is mainly composed of big arcs which favors that format. Also the fact that King's run is critically acclaimed with most "professional" reviewrs, might prompt people to buy the trades even if they read the book and didn't like it at first because they might think that there is a good payoff in the end that makes the bad issues worth it. This is all expeculation, I would have to look the trades sells to get the scope of things.

I think it is possible that DC decides to do a shake up and change the writers from the Batman titles, since the sales of the titles are pretty stagnant (which could be seen as a good thing). A positive thing, is that I don't think King's run on Batman turned out to be what DC wanted it to be. When they chose King for the Batman title, They probably expected him to be bring his critically acclaimed writing to Batman in hopes that it would be so highly praised that people outside comics would take notice and promote it more (since unlike the rest of the characters King wrote, Batman is infinetly more popular). Now the problem is that King found an alternative to that with the Batman/Catwoman wedding but fortunely for us he is doing a crappy job with it. The issue when Batman propose sold a lot more than the average King issue, but the follow up to that was completely idiotic and It ruined any momentum from that. Now the build up to the wedding is selling like an average Batman issue, so it's not doing so good, considering that It should be a pretty big moment in Batman's history. So my hope is that DC sees how he handled that and moves him from the title but I think that we will only see changes after the wedding.

Yeah I have to agree with the opinion that DC will allow King to stick till the marriage. The said marriage will pretty much make or break his entire run.

I think if he fumbles with the marriage he could well be out in a few months after the fumbling.

It's a question of when, not if. It's what he's consistently been doing since the Rebirth issue.

@black_arrow: Yeah I figured as much. I am still baffled by all rave reviews he is getting. The reviews clearly gloss over any dumb moments or inconsistencies in his work, and heap a ton of praise on the mere fact that King is having Batman and Supes interact, or is attempting to do a murder mystery (attempt being the operative word here), while ignoring the execution. It just seems like all media outlets have collectively decided that King is the best at the moment, and nothing will sway their opinion.

I agree that DC doesn't seem to care at all for what King has been doing, which is good, and it doesn't seem like King has brought any new readers at all, despite writing for the lowest common denominator. I am honestly worried that by the time the wedding is over it would be far too late. Here is hoping a miracle happens before then.

@entropy_aegis: The issue is that people have already shown their willingness to go along with anything as long as they like the concept behind it. The only selling point of King's run so far has been the Bat/Cat engagement and supposed marriage, and despite him handling it terribly people are still buying into it. So it doesn't matter how King ends up handling the wedding, as long as the two end up married people will be satisfied and the writing will be praised. That what worries me the most. To see King's shitty writing praised simply because he is pandering to shippers at the expense of the main character he is supposed to be writing. You know that DC will look at it and go OH SO THAT'S WHAT FANS WANT, NOTED. I don't want King to set a precedence for gutting Batman's character in the name of servicing crappy romance stories that normally should be nothing more than a sub-plot. This is why I am praying he leaves as ASAP.

@enzo991: If he throws a lame twist such as Duke and Claire replacing Bruce and Selina or a forcibly grown version of Master Bruce replacing Bruce or Selina dying or Bruce dying all of which are a real possibility then I suspect his own lovers wont be so kind.

@morpheus_: To quote King himself "hell yeah".

I think that was the plan, but King will alter it to do whatever he has to do to stay on the book.

@entropy_aegis: I want to say none of this would ever happen, but King does give off that air of someone who sees himself as some renaissance man who is bursting with revolutionary ideas, so who knows what his damaged mind could convince him of doing. Still, I think King is as much of a shipper fanboy as those running tumblr accounts dedicated to Bat/Cat, so I don't think he will abandon that idea easily, and certainly not before milking it for all its worth. I am more surprised by the lack of action from DC's editorial. If King's work will be completely ignored and even contradicted by every other book, why even let him write his dumb story in the first place ? However, I DO agree that a falling out between King and his Bat/Cat shippers is inevitable, not unlike what happened during the early parts of I am suicide. Shippers want their happily ever after, and there is approximately 0% of that actually happening. I just hope that the Batman book can move to a better hand before things get too complicated for the character.

@infantfinite128: I lean toward this as well, as King has already shown complete willingness to change his plans at the drop of a hat. Beside, he seems to make supposedly self-referential jokes specifically to counter whatever criticism he is getting, meaning that the guy is OK with adding and changing stuff to shut the naysayers. He doesn't seem to handle criticism all the well, so I agree that if things started to get ugly, I see him easily caving in and changing his plans.

@zhangthong12: .... His Batman is good I agree. But the stories he tells are so so !

You know, I'm really starting to wonder how I ended up enjoying Grayson so much when considering Tom King's current output. You guys have got me second-guessing myself on what I actually like now.

I guess the Batman/Shadow crossovers are decent if only they didn't get the Shadow so horribly wrong.

LoL you read my mind. Yes, that's what I tell shippers over and over. My opinon is that, I don't really think Batman needs to be married with Selina to have a really cool romance with her, there has been at least 70 decades of that on off thing they share and I always find that to be the fun part or their relationship. I don't really mind if they marry at all, but King is writting Twilight the Cat in Heat. His "romance" is boring at best, cliché at worst. And that Bat-Cat idiocy I want to shoot myself each time I hear it. He has manged to make one of my favorite pairs into a moronic repetitive cheesy parody that makes me want to strangle something ;P

Man, Bruce and Selina never ending "Cat" and "Bat" pet names is worst than Anakin Skywalker's sand monologue.

King even admits that he is writting about "his marrige" in Batman, here is a quote:

“To be perfectly honest, when you write you end up writing about yourself,” he said. “No matter how much you try to tear yourself away from the characters, no matter how crazy the characters are, you find something. Writing is weaponized empathy. It’s putting yourself in someone else’s head. It’s finding what’s in them that relates to you.”

“I’m lucky enough to be madly in love with my wife, and I have been for 17 years,” he said. “So I think what comes out right now when I write is that, I want to talk about that, how that brings meaning to my life.”

source:

https://nerdist.com/batman-annual-2-catwoman-tom-king/

Man we get it!!! you love your woman!! but we don't want to know about your marrige!!! We want to know about the Batman!! ;P

Damn, I prefer more The Lego Batman movie take on Bruce's romantic life that this s****!!!! And that was only a parody, but was a romance done right!!!

King is writing a new comic called Sanctuary about superhero PTSD, now please get rid of him from Batman DC. He can write about narcotics addiction, suicidal thoughts, depression, self mutilation and whatever he finds so fascinating there all he wants. No need to force this crap on Batman anymore.

@entropy_aegis: Oh god please let DC realize that King is doing a shit job writing Batman, and let him utilize his "deep" writing skills somewhere else. I don't understand the compulsion that many writers feel to turn Bruce into a dysfunctional mess. He has problems sure but he is still supposed to be one of the three pillars of heroism in the DC universe. I honestly blame DC's editorial for not making it clear to writers that Batman, no matter how troubled and flawed he might be, is still a hero and should be written as such.

Every time we have a story where Superman is less than perfect you have the entire Superman fandom flipping their shit, and it is often called a cliche or a tired trope, and yet I don't see the same sentiment extended to Batman. The "Bruce is just a sick person and the reason Gotham is so messed up in the first place" trope is a tired cliche, and yet it's treated as some ground breaking idea every time a writer brings it up. King has essentially destroyed Bruce as a superhero, painting his mission as some self imposed torture with the only possible thing that could alleviate the pain of his existence is being married to Selina, and people are more than happy to eat it up. I doubt the same treatment could fly with any other hero, but Batman seems like a fair game to everyone.

I doubt King will ever loosen his grip on Batman so soon, at least not before he is done writing his fan fic wedding, but I am hoping someone at DC does something about it. Seeing as how King's Batman is running counter to what every other writer is doing with the character, I am hoping someone at DC will take a look at his work and realize how dumb it is to let him continue when he is not contributing anything to the character's overall story, and axe his run entirely.

Your the only one i have seen say they like King's Batman.

But what do you think of Scott Snyder's batman?

Personally, Synders run on Batman is up there with my favorites of all time. I think it was exceptional. What about you?

This aged poorly....