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    Batman

    Character » Batman appears in 23537 issues.

    Bruce Wayne, who witnessed the murder of his billionaire parents as a child, swore to avenge their deaths. He trained extensively to achieve mental and physical perfection, mastering martial arts, detective skills, and criminal psychology. Costumed as a bat to prey on the fears of criminals, and utilizing a high-tech arsenal, he became the legendary Batman.

    Jokers Change in the 80's

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    2cool4fun

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    So idk how it came to it, but I just randomly started viewing some of the early post crisis comics, like right after it happened type of comics.

    And I'v enoticed that some characters didn't change right after the event, specifically joker, even in 1986 he still remained the same character he was when they reimagined him in 1973 after they stopped with the whole Adam West campy vibe in batman's comics. Yet only 2 years later, we see the Joker we all know & love in the killing joke, and in that same year, he also stars in A death in the family, tho he does kill Jason in the next year.

    But my question is, did the killing joke change Joker into the modern version we know today, or did it just suddenly happen in 1988

    ( Actually, can we even consider him the modern version anymore? Since in Rebirth, that version is seen as the 2nd joker, on batman's screen, while the new 52 version was seen as the 3rd joker...well I'm just rambling now, I really only need an answer to my first question haha )

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    jb681131

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    @2cool4fun: From my knowledge and understanding:

    The 70's in DC comics is sometimes referred as the Bronze age. It stays in the same continuity than the Silver age but adopts a change of tone: more serious, adult and dark. In this time most characters go through a little change. The Bronze age version of each characters is by some concidered their final version because they haven't evolved much in style and personality since then.

    Then in 1986 DC plans Crisis on Infinit Earths to reboot all its univers. DC wanted to have all its heroes live on the same Earth and be Canon with each other. During events like that some titles have stories of their own going on and don't embrace the change immediatly. Also after a reboot, all characters don't appear right away, you have to wait a few month/years to see them all again. The post-crisis era is called "The Modern Age".

    As for the Joker, Miller wrote his The Dark Knight Returns in 1986 picturing a pretty modern like Joker. But it is only in 1988 when Alan Moore writes his infamous The Killing Joke that his modern identity is scealed.

    You know both Miller and Moore did some daring and marking comics for their time. So their comics can be concidered as turning points for Batman and Joker. But you got to bare in mind that they didn't invent these characters. So they were both influenced by previous interpretations.

    A few bonuses:

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    Anjales_II

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    To answer your question, I have to address a certain misconception regarding the tonal shift in Batman comics in the 70's/80's.

    A lot of people assume that Batman suddenly became dark because of the Killing Joke, The Dark Knight Returns, or even Year One, when in reality, Batman going dark was a work in progress that was starting in the early 70's. Before that, even though Batman stories were slowly starting to get darker mostly due to Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams, Batman himself in his portrayal went through several stages. For a while, Batman was seen as a celebrity who just so happens to fight crime, later on he would become a deputized citizen. It's really not until the 80's when he is portrayed as a vigilante, and finally Frank Miller introduced the concept of him being an urban myth, which stuck for many years. And now, mostly due to the Nolan movies, Batman is regarded as a symbol and a legend, the whole "more than a man" thing.

    With all that said, what does that have to do with Joker. Well, you have to take into consideration that, for many years, Joker actually disappeared from Batman comics, and his big re-introduction came in 1973 in "The Joker's Five Way Revenge". He was cruel, sadistic, murderous and also had a certain complexity about him, when he refused to kill Batman when he had the chance because it was by chance, yet he still retained a certain cartoonish quality to him. Yet not long after that, stories like "Joker's Rumpus Room Revenge", in which Joker lures Batman into his playland where he intends to kill him with one of his carnival themed deathtraps, one of which includes A Joker looking Samurai popping out of a giant Jack-in-a-box...it is the sort of stories you would expect in the Silver Age Camp Era, yet that took place in 1981. So, Joker's portrayal was quite inconsistent during this era, he was either a ruthless psychotic killer with a sick sense of humor, or an over the top murdering clown. However, one story in particular that blurred the line between those two is the infamous "Laughing Fish", which I don't really consider a dark story, but it still had some dark moments here and there, and on paper, it's actually quite a ridiculous story, yet Joker was still quite ruthless in it.

    So finally to answer your question, did the Killing Joke suddenly change Joker? Yes and No. No, because Joker was already dark and ruthless over a decade before TKJ. However, I can say Yes because it was in TKJ where Joker "went too far", and it was the darkest he has ever been in years. I would also add in A Death in the Family, as it was another story of Joker taking it too far. It just so happens that these two storylines took place not too far in between each other, so people started associating these extreme acts with how Joker's "norm" is now. But like Batman, Joker himself has gone through several phases, though less consistent and has flipped through those phases over the years, it's only in the more recent years, notably after The Dark Knight, where Joker has consistently been dark,

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    jb681131

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    @anjales_ii: Very good explainations with references. Couldn't have been better done. But hasn't he always been ruthless since his first apparition in Batman #1 ?

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    2cool4fun

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    Thanks for the explanation guys.

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    Anjales_II

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    @jb681131: I wouldn't call Cesar Romero's Joker "ruthless" :P He did start off quite ruthless, but when the Bat-Mythos transitioned into Camp, the same applied to Joker. If I recall correctly, while Joker did mostly disappear from Batman comics in the 50's-60's before his re-introduction in 1973, the rare appearances he had, he was mostly a goofy, crazy yet harmless clown.

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    Eto

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    He changed a lot throughout the years. Now The rebirth joker doesn't even smile lmao.

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