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    Batman

    Character » Batman appears in 23942 issues.

    Bruce Wayne, who witnessed the murder of his billionaire parents as a child, swore to avenge their deaths. He trained extensively to achieve mental and physical perfection, mastering martial arts, detective skills, and criminal psychology. Costumed as a bat to prey on the fears of criminals, and utilizing a high-tech arsenal, he became the legendary Batman.

    Joker's secret to cheating death is...

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    RavenVice01

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    Edited By RavenVice01

    The Joker's secret to cheating death is...the Lazarus Pit. Tell me u didn't see that coming. If u read the latest issue of Batman, it will describe it in more detail. It makes perfect sense why Joker can't really remember his life as a family man/ failed comedian. Joker only has brief memory lapses of his past life but twists them to suit his deviant machinations.

    The Lazarus Pit causes the person who bathes in it to be reborn as a blank slate in a state of madness. For Ra's al Ghul, he is snapped out of his state of madness and reeducates himself as to who he really is. The Joker however, never snapped out of his state of madness instead he continued from that night when he fell into the vat of chemicals.

    The only logical explanation would be that Ace Chemicals must have somehow tapped into the Lazarus reservoir and the regenerative enzyme in the Lazarus Pit became corrupted by the sludge at Ace Chemicals. The Court of Owls must have also used the Lazarus Pit to develop the Electrum serum. The Talons can't die and they can be reanimated after being killed with just an electrical current.

    Vandal Savage is a different case. The irradiated meteorite that gave Vandal his immortality must have split off into different areas around the world like Gotham. Vandal was exposed to the raw matter of the meteorite but over time, the properties of the meteorite must mineraled down into the Earth and created pools that would eventually become the Lazarus Pits.

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    _Nox_

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    Is this legit? Or just a theory?

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    CaptainMarvel4Ever

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    Ok good, that's much better then "He's actually the devil"

    Hopefully after this story we get a "Batman the Animated Series Joker" one that we can have fun with, see on a regular basis, but still take as a serious and sometimes even scary threat.

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    Jonny_Anonymous

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    Saren

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    #4  Edited By Saren

    @ravenvice01 said:

    The Joker's secret to cheating death is...the Lazarus Pit. Tell me u didn't see that coming. If u read the latest issue of Batman, it will describe it in more detail. It makes perfect sense why Joker can't really remember his life as a family man/ failed comedian. Joker only has brief memory lapses of his past life but twists them to suit his deviant machinations.

    The Lazarus Pit causes the person who bathes in it to be reborn as a blank slate in a state of madness. For Ra's al Ghul, he is snapped out of his state of madness and reeducates himself as to who he really is. The Joker however, never snapped out of his state of madness instead he continued from that night when he fell into the vat of chemicals.

    The only logical explanation would be that Ace Chemicals must have somehow tapped into the Lazarus reservoir and the regenerative enzyme in the Lazarus Pit became corrupted by the sludge at Ace Chemicals. The Court of Owls must have also used the Lazarus Pit to develop the Electrum serum. The Talons can't die and they can be reanimated after being killed with just an electrical current.

    Vandal Savage is a different case. The irradiated meteorite that gave Vandal his immortality must have split off into different areas around the world like Gotham. Vandal was exposed to the raw matter of the meteorite but over time, the properties of the meteorite must mineraled down into the Earth and created pools that would eventually become the Lazarus Pits.

    Dekker mentions that Joker was exposed to the dionesium before Gotham City was built, so he's older than Ace and the vat of chemicals.

    Side note: Crazy Quilt is the villain behind Gotham's fall! I knew he'd amount to something!

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    SodamYat

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    Batman doesnt believe it though so I'll maintain a little reservation.

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    CaptainMarvel4Ever

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    Jonny_Anonymous

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    @captainmarvel4ever: Yeah but he's gone on record to say this will be his last ever Joker story.

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    Transformers1024

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    So Joker bathed in the Lazarus over a 100 years ago and he practically can't die?

    What...?

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    SodamYat

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    MadeinBangladesh

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    BUT HE's THE DEVIL!

    ~MiB

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    Valdemocnij

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    #11  Edited By Valdemocnij

    Maybe it was never only one Joker.. remind Curtis Base... i'm most curious with this idea bcs Joker once say

    No Caption Provided

    What they correctly think with this....

    And why the hell Joker allow Dollmaker to he cut his face... maybe he have some plans in future with that !?

    He allow him to do that, that it look just like some plan for something, but ''he'' later back for his face ???

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    amazing_webhead

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    What a complete load. They already did a story where he used a Lazarus Pit, and it made him SANE!

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    _Mongul

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    #13  Edited By _Mongul

    Nobody listen to this guy, it isn't Lazarus. If you read the issue and pay attention, Dekker states that Lazarus is a CORRUPTED and IMPERFECT form of the chemical Joker has in his system.

    Joker has NOT been hopping in Lazarus Pits.

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    Lvenger

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    @_mongul said:

    Nobody listen to this guy, it isn't Lazarus. If you read the issue and pay attention, Dekker states that Lazarus is a CORRUPTED and IMPERFECT form of the chemical Joker has in his system.

    Joker has NOT been hopping in Lazarus Pits.

    Can you provide cropped scans of this? That might persuade more people to not believe this guy.

    Either way, I'm not a fan of Joker now being an immortal murderer stretching back centuries. It detracts from the unique antagonism Batman and Joker have in the first place. Hopefully Snyder will make this into a double bluff twist of some kind.

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    Joe_Chill

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    He stays alive because Batman loves him

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    _Mongul

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    #17  Edited By _Mongul

    @lvenger: I'm on mobile, so I can't unfortunately. But it's on page 18, when Dekker is talking about Ra's. He states that Lazarus is a VARIATION of the substance, and while effective in its own way, it is corrupted compared to the original.

    And I wouldn't worry too much. This has Red Herring written all over it, IMO.

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    Lvenger

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    @_mongul: I know, this definitely sounds like another Red Herring story a la Death of the Family but the possibility of it being true has more negative consequences than DOTF did.

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    _Mongul

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    @lvenger: I agree, Immortal Joker is not a good path to take. I would prefer if Snyder revealed the thing to be a big Red Herring, to a DIFFERENT, much more reasonable revelation or twist that sticks for a while.

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    kidchipotle

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    Stupid Snyder and stupid story.

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    Lvenger

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    @_mongul: Don't know if it's in Snyder's power, he always goes for bigger and more shocking stories than progressive and depth building ones.

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    RavenVice01

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    @saren: spoiler said that bruce Wayne is behind these attacks during batman eternal and since hush is locked up that can only mean Thomas Wayne jr

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    RavenVice01

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    @amazingwebhead: I remember that story too. No...joker hasn't been dipping into the Lazarus pit every time. If anything,joker is like vandal and ra's combined. The corrupt version of the Lazarus flows through joker's veins and u can fatally wound joker but eventually he will get back up just like vandal. It makes sense to me how joker survived several near death events. Just look at some key episodes of batman tas.

    The Joker basically laughs at the face of death because he knows he can not die. In a way I'm surprised that Joker died from electro shock in batman beyond. It would hav been funny and poetic though if joker slipped on a banana peel b4 flipping the switch that killed him

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    amazing_webhead

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    @ravenvice01: I still don't care for this retcon. The thing I liked about Joker was how he was just an ordinary guy, just like Batman.

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    dernman

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    This sounds dumb and honestly kinda hurts my opinion of Joker. Snyder is a writer that I started out liking and now keep doing things I don't like.

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    Saren

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    #26  Edited By Saren

    @saren: spoiler said that bruce Wayne is behind these attacks during batman eternal and since hush is locked up that can only mean Thomas Wayne jr

    What does that have to do with this?

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    Black_Arrow

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    #27  Edited By Black_Arrow

    In the issue it seems that the form of regeneration that the Joker has is much closer to Vandal Savage than to the Lazarus pit. The court of owls probably played with that element too, considering that the Court of Owls is much older than the research made by Wayne Enterprise, it's probable that the Court of Owls could have taken that element from Joker's blood (remember how the Talons had pale skin?).

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    ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2

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    Joker has lost his iconicity now

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    DeathpooltheT1000

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    He stays alive because.....

    The writers and DC said so!!!

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    Valdemocnij

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    I still believe that its not just only one man... !!!

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    RavenVice01

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    @amazingwebhead: I know what u mean but it seems like people like the new 52 version of the Joker rather than the Alan Moore version. Making joker a pathetic ordinary man was kinda appealing to me because u kinda feel sorry for the Joker and I hav always wondered if batman actually learned the truth behind joker's past and that's why he pities him

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    amazing_webhead

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    @amazingwebhead: I know what u mean but it seems like people like the new 52 version of the Joker rather than the Alan Moore version. Making joker a pathetic ordinary man was kinda appealing to me because u kinda feel sorry for the Joker and I hav always wondered if batman actually learned the truth behind joker's past and that's why he pities him

    Agreed

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    Marcus_Halberstram

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    Huh?
    Joker's secret to cheating death isn't the Lazarus Pit, it's exposure to Dionesium. The Lazarus Pit -according to Dekker- is an imperfect version of Dionesium, used by Ra's. Joker came across it before the birth of Gotham. Batman wasn't able to find it any of Joker's blood samples because it only manifests in cases of severe damage to the body.


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    Nathaniel_Christopher

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    @_mongul@lvenger And anyone else who's interested in the explanation.

    Not really sure how to feel about any of this if i'm being honest. The Joker's certainly always seemed like an immortal, unstoppable force, but this? IDK, just doesn't fit for me. Though it also doesn't necessarily ruin the story itself.

    And Bruce is still looking into things, so there's still room for him to find out there's some other explanation to it all.

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    Spidey_Jackson

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    Endgame just got crappier.

    Beata

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    HarlequinOfHearts

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    havoc1201

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    I don't mind it and that end Scene was great, I'm sure Joker is not immortal but we will see, also some of you complaining about how Alan Moore made a story that joker was an ordinary guy and stuff, you do realize at the beginning of that book the joker himself says he sometimes sees his past a a man with a family but than he sees it another way and another so Joker has never had a true back story other than ACE chemicals, that's it, we truly have no clue what or who he was before Joker, that's why he is batmans greatest enemy he is the one question the worlds greatest detective can not answer.

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    entropy_aegis

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    Eh not sure what to think of this,I dont put Joker in the same category of villainy as Ra's or Vandal,it cheapens all of them.I hope it's misdirect though tying together different types of immortality was kinda cool .

    Endgame just got crappier.

    Beata

    As if you're even reading it.

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    entropy_aegis

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    #40  Edited By entropy_aegis

    @spidey_jackson said:

    @entropy_aegis: Of course i'm not reading it! Why would i read an expensive length story arc if i don't like it? That's both a waste of time and money. What sense does that even make?

    Beata

    Then how do you know it was crappy enough to get even more crappier? as usual just here to diss on anything Batman related.

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    Gracetrack

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    #41  Edited By Gracetrack

    Eh... I'm actually kind of ok with the idea of Joker being immortal, because it would go a long way to explaining how he has survived some of the things he has (because he's not at all the physical specimen that Bruce is) but without granting him any other special powers. In other words, he'd still essentially be a regular human (albeit insane)... just immune to death (like Vandal and Ra's basically).

    However, I'd greatly prefer it if his character wasn't already around as the Joker before Batman. I'd like it much, much, much better if he had simply found the dionesium or whatever shortly after he became the Joker. I think he needs to be the antithesis of Batman that arouse because of Batman. For me, having him be an evil force that existed long before Bruce kind of spoils the dynamic between the two a little bit.

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    goonage

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    However, I'd greatly prefer it if his character wasn't already around as the Joker before Batman. I'd like it much, much, much better if he had simply found the dionesium or whatever shortly after he became the Joker. I think he needs to be the antithesis of Batman that arouse because of Batman. For me, having him be an evil force that existed long before Bruce kind of spoils the dynamic between the two.

    This.

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    Lvenger

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    #43  Edited By Lvenger

    @nathaniel_christopher: Thanks and I feel the same way to be frank. Literally turning the Joker into an immortal and unkillable villain kinda detracts from the metaphorical threat the Joker has posed to Batman. If he's literally unstoppable rather than just appearing that way in his antagonism with Batman, it doesn't play into the twisted relationship Batman and Joker have shared over all these years. Damn Snyder and his show off writing, it doesn't pay off all the time.

    @goonage said:

    @omnicrono said:

    However, I'd greatly prefer it if his character wasn't already around as the Joker before Batman. I'd like it much, much, much better if he had simply found the dionesium or whatever shortly after he became the Joker. I think he needs to be the antithesis of Batman that arouse because of Batman. For me, having him be an evil force that existed long before Bruce kind of spoils the dynamic between the two.

    This.

    Seconded too. If Joker is immortal, I'd rather he became the Joker after confronting Batman in Ace Chemicals.

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    Gracetrack

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    #44  Edited By Gracetrack

    @lvenger said:

    @nathaniel_christopher: Thanks and I feel the same way to be frank. Literally turning the Joker into an immortal and unkillable villain kinda detracts from the metaphorical threat the Joker has posed to Batman. If he's literally unstoppable rather than just appearing that way in his antagonism with Batman, it doesn't play into the twisted relationship Batman and Joker have shared over all these years. Damn Snyder and his show off writing, it doesn't pay off all the time.

    Yeah, I totally get this. But then there's the side of it where Joker continually surviving some of the things he has (e.g. the falls, explosions, etc) is a little silly. So I'm torn. If he isn't immortal, I'm fine with it because I understand that there's mystery and power in the metaphorical threat, and because it isn't all that different from other villains surviving constant defeat only to return later. If it turns out that he really is immortal, or even simply to a degree, I think I'll be fine with that too... but again, only so long as he became immortal sometime after the Ace Chemicals incident that turned him into the Joker to begin with.

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    goonage

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    @lvenger said:

    @nathaniel_christopher: Thanks and I feel the same way to be frank. Literally turning the Joker into an immortal and unkillable villain kinda detracts from the metaphorical threat the Joker has posed to Batman. If he's literally unstoppable rather than just appearing that way in his antagonism with Batman, it doesn't play into the twisted relationship Batman and Joker have shared over all these years. Damn Snyder and his show off writing, it doesn't pay off all the time.

    @goonage said:

    @omnicrono said:

    However, I'd greatly prefer it if his character wasn't already around as the Joker before Batman. I'd like it much, much, much better if he had simply found the dionesium or whatever shortly after he became the Joker. I think he needs to be the antithesis of Batman that arouse because of Batman. For me, having him be an evil force that existed long before Bruce kind of spoils the dynamic between the two.

    This.

    Seconded too. If Joker is immortal, I'd rather he became the Joker after confronting Batman in Ace Chemicals.

    I'm still convinced that Joker isn't really immortal, and is just trolling the entire city.

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    Lvenger

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    @goonage: That does indeed remain a possibility and I hope Snyder pulls that obvious twist in the end. It would be even more controversial than DOTF if these changes to Joker stay canon.

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    Gracetrack

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    @goonage said:

    I'm still convinced that Joker isn't really immortal, and is just trolling the entire city.

    I don't know, man... I'm really starting to have my doubts. I'm still holding out hope that he simply doctored all the old photographs and history documents somehow to include his image. Maybe he had help in the same way he had help creating his new virus strain.

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    Marcus_Halberstram

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    However, I'd greatly prefer it if his character wasn't already around as the Joker before Batman. I'd like it much, much, much better if he had simply found the dionesium or whatever shortly after he became the Joker. I think he needs to be the antithesis of Batman that arouse because of Batman. For me, having him be an evil force that existed long before Bruce kind of spoils the dynamic between the two a little bit.

    Yup.

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    Gracetrack

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    #49  Edited By Gracetrack

    @lvenger said:

    @goonage: That does indeed remain a possibility and I hope Snyder pulls that obvious twist in the end. It would be even more controversial than DOTF if these changes to Joker stay canon.

    I don't think he is going to pull that twist... at least not entirely in the way we think. From his interviews (especially his latest ones on the Vine and at IGN), it really seems like Snyder is going for broke this time, as he is approaching it as if it's his last time writing the Joker. Among other things, he has said that the Joker has always been a "devil figure" for him, so maybe he's really trying to take that to the next level by truly making the character immortal to some degree. Who knows, maybe Joker did figure out a way to make himself immortal for this story, but by the end Batman discovers a way to undo whatever Joker did to himself.

    Haha... It's obviously all still up in the air, and Snyder could still certainly pull out something that nobody saw coming. Two issues to go. :)

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    batcat91

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    I don't mind it and that end Scene was great, I'm sure Joker is not immortal but we will see, also some of you complaining about how Alan Moore made a story that joker was an ordinary guy and stuff, you do realize at the beginning of that book the joker himself says he sometimes sees his past a a man with a family but than he sees it another way and another so Joker has never had a true back story other than ACE chemicals, that's it, we truly have no clue what or who he was before Joker, that's why he is batmans greatest enemy he is the one question the worlds greatest detective can not answer.

    Quoted for truth! The Joker is a complete enigma that not even the world's greatest detective can't solve. And that in itself is terrifying in a way since as human beings we do feel afraid or tense on things that we can't comprehend. Him being a failed comedian is a complete red herring. The only thing we know for sure is that he fell in a vat at ACE chemicals but his past is completely unknown to us. The joker could have been a gangster, or public servant for all we know... at least in the pre 52. Again well said!

    I thought the issue was great, and I know that Joker's origins will be controversial, but I appreciate that Snyder is willing to take that chance. In my sincere opinion, I think it's a interesting concept and I actually found myself reading Dekker's words very intently on the idea of biological immortality and Joker's place in it. The exposition was quite engaging. And if it actually is true, Joker may have just pulled the greatest con in his history, making his greatest enemy think that he is mortal which i think would be cool.

    So far the story has been solid as expected of from Snyder and Capullo, but I'll withhold judgement until the end on whether I love this new take on the Joker. I really love the idea that Batman was responsible for creating his greatest enemy but this new take on the Joker is admittedly refreshing and engaging. I still prefer the original origins on how the Joker came to be but who knows I might change my mind lol

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