Definitive? Not by half.

Batman Begins was a fantastically crafted start, and things steadily went downhill from there. The following two films were ponderous, overlong and in love with their own internal storytelling machinery—almost all of which interfered with actual human interaction, motivations etc. I almost walked out of TDKR out of sheer boredom. Nolan fell victim to the same plague that hit George Lucas in the prequels: he expected us to believe his stories were epic based on an a priori sense of self-importance in the source material, and then makes us sit through drivel. Oh look! A child solemnly sings the National Anthem while a football field collapses. How symbolic. Pity that it isn't backed up by actual human drama.

If the League of Shadows simply wanted to destroy Gotham, why make us sit through months of overdrawn theatrics and simply push the button right away. Oh right, because Nolan had a capital-S Story to tell.

Yawn.

@waxdart said:

Definitive? Not by half.

Batman Begins was a fantastically crafted start, and things steadily went downhill from there. The following two films were ponderous, overlong and in love with their own internal storytelling machinery—almost all of which interfered with actual human interaction, motivations etc. I almost walked out of TDKR out of sheer boredom. Nolan fell victim to the same plague that hit George Lucas in the prequels: he expected us to believe his stories were epic based on an a priori sense of self-importance in the source material, and then makes us sit through drivel. Oh look! A child solemnly sings the National Anthem while a football field collapses. How symbolic. Pity that it isn't backed up by actual human drama.

If the League of Shadows simply wanted to destroy Gotham, why make us sit through months of overdrawn theatrics and simply push the button right away. Oh right, because Nolan had a capital-S Story to tell.

Yawn.

Ah what a hipster. Gotta love 'em.

Very, very short answer...NO

Nolan's Batman is what you get when you only take a surface glance at Batman and his mythos and then try to make everything and elicit feelings through shallow commentary of terrorism. I don't consider the character portrayed to be Batman or any of his cast. They share a name and that is pretty much it. That being the case no it is not the definitive batman story in general, let alone live-action portrayals.

"Whereas in the comics, Bruce Wayne will forever be tormented by the death of his parents to fuel his war on crime."

Morrison's run (up until the New 52 reboot) allowed Bruce to get over his parents death, and he was just fighting crime because he's the best at it. So being forever tormented is just what writers stick to because they don't know what else to do with the character. There are other options.

@gavinsanity254: A couple other things that they throw in there that I haven't seen anyone mention: While going through the estate the lawyers (or whoever) state that they're still missing the string of pearls (so it's implied that he took those with him, possibly for Selina), Gordon suddenly finds a magically whole Bat-signal on the roof of the police building, and Blake is directed somehow to go retrieve that duffel bag with the repelling gear and the GPS tracker that leads him to the Batcave. None of those things necessarily PROVE that he survived the blast, but they definitely suggest it, and the way they're presented cinematically seem like they're intended to lead the viewer to believe that he did.

THE AMOUNT OF WRONG YOU ARE IS ASTOUNDING TO ME!

Now that that's out of my system, here's a short list of my biggest problems with the Nolan-verse (not just DKR). No spoiler tags, if you haven't seen the movie by now you shouldn't be reading articles like this anyway.

A big one is Batman does hardly any detective work. He beats people up, but hitting someone and shouting "Where are they?!" and "Where's the detonator?!" is not how the world's greatest detective interrogates people.

Nolan's Batman was hardly Batman at all. He only operated for about a year before disappearing for 8, coming back for a night, disappearing for ANOTHER 6ish months, and coming back for 1 day. Despite fighting Carmine Falcone, Scarecrow, Ra's al Ghul, Joker, Two-Face, Catwoman (sorta), Bane and Talia he hardly had any screen time with any of them except the Joker (and training with Ra's as Henri Ducard).

The idea that his pain from losing his parents forced him INTO being Batman, but his pain from losing his "almost, but not really" girlfriend made him not just quit, but become a recluse Howard Hughes type is laughable.

JGL can't be Batman. That's all there is to it. He doesn't have the infrastructure, the training, or the money necessary. I felt like hinting at that was the BIGGEST "Fuck You" of that movie. The thing about Batman being a symbol is something I think Nolan really screwed up with the last movie. The notion that, "anyone could be Batman," is wrong. The correct way of putting it would be, "Batman could be anyone." Not everyone has the resources. There's a subtle difference between the 2 statements. This movie supports the first as evident by the ending (and EVERYONE important knowing who Batman was by the end). But the second movie supports the latter statement, shown by the hockey pad Batmen he rounds up at the beginning of the film, and Batman's refusal to cave to the Joker's demands he publicly unmask. Rises, implies JGL's "Robin" could be Batman because all you need is the Batman's blessings (and maybe his leftover stuff).

It's a wonderful own universe trilogy - Nolanverse. It would be an interesting DCU . . . maybe.

I love the entire trilogy. While I'm not sure whether I would call it the definitive Batman story, but it is one of the greatest no doubt and the most truly realistic.

The movies were good but it isn't anywhere near the level of Year One or The Killing Joke

Morrison's Batman.  
 
/End thread.

I never looked at this way. It just might be. Rises was an outstanding ending. The best it could have done after the previous 2 movie. Sure I think the Joker was the best thing of ALL the flims but I still liked Begins the best. I remember watching it alone at the theater by myself 3 weeks after it came out. I wasn't psyched about the reboot but went anyway. I was floored. Not because of how good of a Batman movie it was but of how good of a movie it was that was about Batman. Hope that make sense. It does to me. I don't think there is one definative Batman story, but a definative Batman story of that particular time. When I got into Batman I had bought Killing Joke, Year One and Dark Knight Returns in the same month. Joke was and still is the definative Joker story, but at the time the Cold War was still going on and Dark Knight Returns blew me away. But together in the Complete Frank Miller Batman with Year One, the 2 make the definative Batman story. 10 years later, the Knight Fall story is what I think defined Batman, then Hush, or Long Halloween. But on film, the Nolan trilogy is outstanding. I can't wait to watch all 3 on a sit down with DVD's so I can go back and replay things over and over. I just might be.

Not quite a happy ending for Gotham with its waterfront now containing deadly radiation from the neutron bomb. Also, the city needs to be reconstructed from all the damage done, all the Blackgate prisoners need to be captured, there's no longer a billionaire in town, and the new Batman aka Robin lacks even half the training Bruce got. I'm sure organized crime will return to Gotham, Joker will breakout Arkham and kill Robin, and Selina will get bored of Bruce and then he will have to come out of retirement for the 3rd time to come back to a Chernobyl-like Gotham where Killer Croc is eating the homeless, Clayface is impersonating the Mayor, Riddler is playing deadly pranks on the GCPD, Scarecrow is Joker's drug-dealer, Oswald Cobblepot is the new billionaire, and Poison Ivy is on a homicidal rampage over the botanic decay in Gotham

The only thing I didn't like was... Batman would sit on his ass for 8 years? No way...

And yes, I am writing a Batman reboot. It's gonna be awesome.

The adam west batman series is the only true screen adaptation of this character.

It wasn't the same Batman than you can see on comics...... but was awesome in his own special way, the definitive, no way but indeed one of the best stories ever :D

What I'm worried about it's if they do a reboot........ I don't know how they're going to do something equal or more epic :P

Hmm... kinda hard to label it as THE definitive Batman story... but it's definitely up there with the greats. 
For a safe answer.. I would like to call it ONE of the greatest Batman stories ever told. 
If you're new to everything Bats.. Nolan's trilogy is a sure great way of introducing yourself to the mythos:D

Didn't read 5 pages of comments so I don't know if anyone pointed this out but 3 Batgirls? I count 4 Batgirls.

More to the point though, Nolan's films are brilliantly directed but his Batman is a POS and I can't wait till it's rebooted.

@RiddlingGambit said:

Not quite a happy ending for Gotham with its waterfront now containing deadly radiation from the neutron bomb. Also, the city needs to be reconstructed from all the damage done, all the Blackgate prisoners need to be captured, there's no longer a billionaire in town, and the new Batman aka Robin lacks even half the training Bruce got. I'm sure organized crime will return to Gotham, Joker will breakout Arkham and kill Robin, and Selina will get bored of Bruce and then he will have to come out of retirement for the 3rd time to come back to a Chernobyl-like Gotham where Killer Croc is eating the homeless, Clayface is impersonating the Mayor, Riddler is playing deadly pranks on the GCPD, Scarecrow is Joker's drug-dealer, Oswald Cobblepot is the new billionaire, and Poison Ivy is on a homicidal rampage over the botanic decay in Gotham

LOL Oh man!!! So totally this!!!!

mostly for lack of competition in movies and tv, yes

@btmt: not even dick grayson?

Nolan's trilogy is awesome, and a masterpiece, will be tough to top in cinema. But it's tough for there to be a definitive Bat tale, and if there was one it already happened

The real question is if anyone agrees with this article. Some users are in the right to say that Batman will never truly know a happy ending. Sure he may have some surrogate sons along with a biological one and yeah Bruce knows what love feels like but one of the pinnacle critiques about Batman is that Bruce can never have a normal happy life or move on as Nolan has painted throughout his trilogy. It would be realistic that Bruce has considered a normal life by moving on but every night he jumps from rooftop to rooftop, he sees a new brand of evil that must be put in its place, he can't stop because Gotham will always need "the Batman" not "a Batman". These are the quintessential human qualities of Batman, Bruce will carry on til he is too old to fight on and he knows that he can't be everywhere like Superman so he reluctantly brings in recruits into his life like the Robins and Batgirls or members of Batman Inc. I stand by what I believe and that is Nolan may have revamped our fondness of Batman and brought about ideas that we wanted to see on the big screen but this is not the "be all to end all" Batman film saga. What will make matters worse is Nolan fanatics or amateur comic book movie goers will have their expectations high on any new Batman reboot and if one thing does not live up to their standards then they will spoil it for everyone else. This Batman trilogy needs to be knocked off its pedestal and placed at the tip of the iceberg. Only when someone truly digs into the core of this iceberg will they have found and created the ultimate and untouchable Batman saga. Something neither Nolan or Burton will ever have imagined.      

Nolan's Batman is worthy effort and shows what you can do with a superhero property. Nolan's Batman isn't the formidable force that he is in the comics, but he is a far more human character in many ways. Nolan's Batman is a self-contained story rather than the comic medium which is a never-ending saga.

Nolan Batman is a credible Batman (as credible as billionaire crime fighters with jets and armoured cars are plausible) while the comic book version is the mythical version. Nolan Batman is a human being, one single dedicated, well-trained man against the darkness and you get the feeling he's nowhere near in control of anything. The comic book Batman is far more efficient and potent, dealing with characters that would tear apart the Nolan Batman.

Nolan's Batman is just one of many Elseworlds Batman versions. One more grounded in plausible reality than most other versions. It also follows the classic movie approach in that Batman is the sole superhero in the world and I think there is more than enough room to revisit the comic book side of Batman in future films.

I would have wanted to know what happened to Joker. I know Nolan refused to allude to the character out of respect to Heath but it doesn't make sense. Even if he wasn't shown, I would really have loved to see what happened to him. Like, they released the inmates from Blackgate but where is the psychopath that shook Gotham some few years back? Did he die? Was he transferred elsewhere? Executed? I mean the goddamn Scarecrow had an appearance! Ra's had an appearance! Just tell us what happened to Joker!

this series of films were hit and miss for me. i would not call it definitive. although the last one was my favorite of the bunch. 

@FatesGambler said:

The movies were good but it isn't anywhere near the level of Year One or The Killing Joke

Amen!

The 1st movie is great but Batman's not the greatest detective.

The 2nd movie lives from Heath Ledger's Joker - that performance is what makes it a classic - not Batman.

The 3rd movie is lacking a Batman worthy ending. Sorry, too much Hollywood in the last couple of minutes...

Erik Norris, I want to see more articles written by you!!!

That's what people used to say of Tim Burton's Batman. Obviously the general audience always prefer what's new. Or they wouldn't be so many remakes... (my favorite Superhero film still is the original Christopher Reeves Superman -__-)

One of the best Batman stories indeed but there are some better.

@Regas13 said:

@btmt: not even dick grayson?

Well Dick grayson is the best choice for being next Batman because he has been trained by Bruce Wayne(Batman) himself. But some random cop having robin his name is not gonna be Batman and there is not any Dick grayson in the movie. I wish Nolan should have rather introduced Dick Grayson in the movie. But Nolan have made three best Batman epic movies and they will be remembered forever.

@redgonzo said:

mostly for lack of competition in movies and tv, yes

Not even The Animated Series?

I am one of the biggest Batman fans you will ever meet. And I have read most of the Batman's stories good and bad but have to say this is The Dark Knight Triliogy is the Definitive Batman Story

this thread is beginning to rip my knitting.

The article is asking what is the. And NOT what are the definitive Batman stories.

So Nolan's trilogy can be taken as one over arching story. But saying it's Frank Millers Year One and Alan Moore's The Killing joke can't be as there two different writers telling there take on The Batman, as great as they are. It's one or the other.

if you want to say it's the animated series then that's cool, I suppose as it was Bruce Tim / Paul Dini who were the show runners. So it's an over arching story. The same goes for The Dark Knight Returns & The Dark Knight Strikes Again. Well that's if you wanted to include strikes, not sure why you would though.

And While we are at it. Year One. Is Jim Gordon's story. And The Killing Joke is the Jokers. I have always felt that Batman is a secondary character, in both story's.

So, years from now, Some kid comes up to you and says "I want to know who this Batman guys is I keep hearing about. Give me a Graphic Novel or a DVD box set that will give me a grip on who this character is and what he is about. I don't have time to read the entire back log, I just want something that I can hold up and say this is The Batman. "

You would say, "what a strange request child. And how the hell can you not know who The Batman is"

And then you would hand them what?

the Nolan trilogy Blue Ray box set. Or The Long Halloween. Or The Dark Knight Returns. what stand up as the best example of The Batman.

sorry for the rant.

@DeusVult: Thanks, and you will!

@RainEffect: Thanks! Much appreciated!

Nolan is supposed to be working on a Superman movie too. It's going to be released in 2013.

@TheCheeseStabber: Did you actually watch the movie? There is no ambiguity.

Perfect Batman trilogy? No. While they are really good they still miss the mark in making Batman what he really is. From a character stand point, I had many issues with things in the movies. I still really like them, but definitive? No.

There is no way that John Blake (Robin) could take up the mantle of Batman. He doesn't even have any League of Shadows training! He would probably die the first night out on patrol.

No. I think The Dark Knight Rises is the best comic book movie of all time (despite some flaws), but I don't even think Nolan's is the definitive film version. For one, the extremely serious take on it takes away from certain aspects of Batman's character. Both Batman Reutrns and Batman Forever have a better balance of dark-mood and light-feel, with the campiness they have thrown in. The other way these two movies illustrate that Nolan's is not the definitive version, is that their contrast illustrates how much range Batman has as a character, and both themselves show more range than the Nolanverse.

Batman Returns has a very gothic, very serious, yet surreal, playful feel to it. It's the Beetlejuice of Bat-films, most analogous to Dark Knight Returns or Alan Moore's batman stories.

Batman Forever has a consummate tone of darkness and morbid wonder; yet the scenes range from serious, campy, adult, cheesy, fun, and childish. This would be analogous to the serials as a whole, or Doug Moench's great run of the 90s.

The definitive Batman stories to me: The Tales of the Demon's Head, Knightsaga, No Man's Land. (Funnily, all of which inspired the Dark Knight Rises.)

For me this is the definitive Batman story. The story isnt about Bruce its about the idea of Batman and the fact that the idea cant be killed. One of the biggest problems i have with the comic book Batman is the fact that he never changes. Batman is an ideal not a person. I think they tried pushing that at the beginning of Dick Graysons time as Batman. Thats what Alfred was trying to teach him IMO

I have to agree with you on all points. Esepcially about Bruce getting to be happy. I gave props for even trying that! And it was pulled off well, as in most cases fanboys would've lost their minds. That being said this is A definitive take on this character and it's world, but not THE definitive take. I'd still like to see something a bit closer to the comics. Take a long hard look at the Arkham games WB/DC cause that tpne is what you need.

Great article Erik. I'm conflicted with if Bruce should of died. As it is gratifying to see our hero live on survive and be happy there's also the idea he should of died. It would have been powerful if Bruce died and the legend of the Batman lives for ever. Just as he said in Batman Begins, people can be corrupted, destroyed but a symbol is everlasting.

Norris, you hit the nail on the head. This Batman is more gear to building the city, that is Bruce Wayne Victory. Nolan verse is inspirational than any thing and not just pummble the bad guy into the ground. He let the city do its thing, but it failed. Off subject, must comic go getter, want to see the good guy fail and I think this is a problem with America, think that the bad guy is going to give them some kind of freedom, but just like Bain, empty promises. Back on subject, I think you can use Nolan verse, but with a twist. Bruce Wayne goes on, but he has to face the dark hearts, instead of Vengeance uses Courage. True use of will power to win.

@War Killer: Very well said, and that was my primary concern with the ending (as I tried to believe that Bruce died and Alfred's vision was an artsy goodbye).

However, something just doesn't sit right with me about it.

No doubt, what Batman did was heroic. But then what? What happens when Gotham undergoes another terrorist attack, as it's bound to happen? Blake doesn't have the skill that Wayne had in terms of training. He's just an ordinary cop. If/when Blake fails, what is Bruce gonna do? Just say "Welp! Sucks to suck, Gotham!" and go back to doing his own thing in Italy? I don't know. Just doesn't sit right with me.

The definitive Batman story? No, but Anne Hathaway now is, in my mind, the definitive Selina Kyle, right next to Adrienne Barbeau.

@Sammo21: Yes I have -.o And Thats how I feel

@TheCheeseStabber said:

@erik_norris: my only qualm is that the nuclear blast was so large and he was in the middle of the ocean and we see him fore most of the flight, and earlier he mentioned no auto pilot. I think , to me, that he died and that Alfred saw him at peace, because he was at peace with him self in death he was.

The only reason we saw Batman in the plane for so long was to make us believe his dead. Alfred was heart broken. He thought he had failed the Waynes, failed Bruce. Then he saw him alive and all was well again.

If Bruce is dead then Fox finding out about the autopilot would be pointless. The ending wasn't an attempt at Inception nor shouldn't it be one.

Third movie was a turd. So MANY things wrong with it. A miserable ending for the trilogy. Thankfully, Batman will live on. More movies will be made, and while they may not be better than the first and (especially) the second Bale features, they cannot be much worse than the last one.