In the Batman/Superman annual 2, several Batman villains hunted down Clark Kent (Croc was among them) and then Batman describes that Killer croc has the ability to lift a school bus full of children. I have researched a bit and an average school bus weights around 20 tons (if It's full of children it weights way more). I find this strength impressive maybe Killer croc will get some more respect if writers made him that strong.

@black_arrow: I'd say he'll be pretty on par with Arkham Batman if they keep this up. But then again Batman did knock him out with his hands in the New 52 a couple of times, so I doubt they will keep it consistent with this instance.

Well Killer Croc already beat Bane with Venom. So he being that powerful in New 52 has already been saw. Also Batman can beat Bane Hand to Hand even if Bane is pumped up with Venom.

That's definitely a ginormous strength upgrade. I don't recall him ever having any strength feats even remotely close to that. Also, the way he beat Bane didn't require any strength (it was via cutting damage).

yes

Yea, that was awesome though.

As a Bane fan, I respectfully disagree :P

(I think the writer made it clear Bane's loss was because he was underestimating Croc. I mean, I'm glad KC is getting more love -- he's often sold way too short -- but it seemed to majorly downplay Bane. Then again, Bane has been written so inconsistently in the New 52.)

I'm a Bane fan as well, I was just glad to see Killer Croc get some love finally as he has always been one of my favorite DCU villains.

I must have missed that entire fight! -_-

Any scans of the highlights, perhaps?

I don't have any, but it's in Batman Eternal #38.

That is true but Bane's Strength in the New 52 has been amazing (he was able to lift many tons of concrete without Venom) so being able to match him even through he didn't beat him with his strength, it's a really good feat for Killer Croc

That'll do, thanks!

Bane has beaten Croc twice in the New-52 and was ordering him around even in this annual,the Batman Eternal fight was just BS,the writer has a huge crush on Croc and deliberately jobbed Bane to make Croc look good.

and Batman is Batman,he's more powerful than ever,he dominated Deathstroke and even hung with Lincoln March in spite of all his injuries and fatigue.

Batman didn't dominate Deathstroke, the fight was pretty even and Deathstroke was severely handicapped due to his physicals being depleted, which threw him off his game since he wasn't used to his body, as well as his fighting style and depth perception being fudged up by having both eyes, which he isn't used to.

@rogueshadow said:

No offense, but that's just isn't true. You have to realize that the stuff you mentioned were all from Slade's POV, and one thing that is clear in this Tony Daniel written book, is that Deathstroke highly values his abilities and so is not satisfied unless he is 100% dominating his opponent. Anything less then that, and according to Slade, he's not fighting well and something's wrong. This was proven in his domination of the 100+soldiers (second fight, after his transformation) and the fight with Bronze Tiger, which he completely dominated, and even then, Slade mentioned that he was off his game. This is pride talking, not physicals. And even when he had his suit on, the mask already covered his formerly missing eye so that should, more or less, compensate. So as far as the fight with Batman goes, Slade was at 100%, but the fact that Batman was kicking his ass was too much for his pride to handle. Read his monolgue again, Slade came off as extremely petty, and almost childish. And notice in the end, when Slade was talking about how he had Batman on the ropes, visually you could see that Bats still had a lot of fight left in him and the battle was far from over (until the explosion of course). With that said, I agree with you, while Batman did have some dominating moments, the fight was far from a stomp, and it was mostly evenly matched.

@entropy_aegis:

Bane has beaten Croc twice in the New-52 and was ordering him around even in this annual,the Batman Etenal fight was just BS,the writer has a huge crush on Croc and deliberately jobbed Bane to make Croc look good.

I don't mean to sound rude, but you sound too much like a bitter Bane fan who is mad he lost to Croc, a known jobber, so it's kinda hard to put too much weight into your "argument". First and foremost, I agree with you that Bane is more "skilled" than Croc (something that was made clear in that fight), and yes I agree with you that the fight was written to make Croc look good. However, the Croc written in that fight wasn't the same mindless monster that usually gets punked by Bane. This Croc had a purpose, was still holding a grudge after his previous defeat by Bane, and so was extra motivated, especially after losing someone he cared about in previous issues. This Croc was more ambitious and so, this was a Croc that actually decided to use his head for once and took advantage of the fact that Bane was underestimating him. Remember, Bane was actually dominating the fight, had Croc on the ropes and was about to finish him off, but he was also boasting about his superiority over Croc (something well in line with Bane's arrogant character so it's not plot induced). These brief moments allowed the extra motivated Croc to cut off Bane's tubes thereby weakening Bane (something that is also in line with the character). However, as Bane stated, while the move did weaken him, he is still capable overcoming it. This is where Croc, again using his head, instead of trying to slug it out with Bane ( a fight Bane probably expected and would have probably won even in his weakened state), decided to drain Bane's blood, and so started slashing away at Bane. Contrary to what you might believe, Croc did not demonstrate any skill here, that was pure savagery, but it wasn't mindless, it actually had a purpose, and so he slashed several of Bane's body parts, and therefore ended up incapacitating Bane in decisive fashion. So no, this fight wasn't "just BS because the writer has a huge crush on Croc and delibaretly jobbed Bane to make Croc look good", the writer may have "a crush" on Bane, but all that made do is write a logical and well written battle that took advantage of existing plot threads to craft a satisfying and logical battle outcome.

I felt like the only people who didn't like the fight are people who put too much stock in Bane's supposed skill. I hate to break it to you, but Bane, while he is a skilled fighter and excellent tactician, is mostly more of a brute than a disciplined martial artist, and it is mostly that brutality which has won him his fights, in both New and Pre-52 (including his fights with Croc). Not denying the fact that he has a degree of skills, but when compared with the likes of Batman, Lady Shiva, Ra's Al Ghul, Matt Murdock etc.. as in people with exceptional skill, he simply pales. The reason he gives Batman a worthy fight isn't because he matches him in skill, but because he has advantage over him in strength and brutality + some decent skills, but Batman still beats him in a fair fight. For proof, see their fights from Legacy (close but decisive win for Batman), No Man's Land (no decisive winner, but Batman was clearly winning until Bane used an explosion to retreat), FE Aftermath (close but decisive win for Batman where he actually matched Bane's brutality to a certain extent).

@anjales: I agree there has always been a greater degree of hubris in N52 DS in general, and maybe there was some of that here. However acting like he wasn't physically inferior to what he was, wasn't used to the addition of his eye or his new body is wrong. What Slade was thinking, while you may say it is him seeing himself through rose tinted glasses, was still true. They were massively important factors in that fight, that is undeniable, the question would be how important, but they were undoubtedly large factors.

Batman dominated most of the fight,Slade only got a few blows at the end. Physicals being depleted? LOL wut where did you get that from? he said something about his eye which doesn't even make sense since he was wearing his old mask. It's clear Deathstroke was just unwilling to accept someone could fight him so well.

Yeah I'm mad, Bane is Croc's superior,he's stronger,smarter,faster,more skilled, I'm not gonna bother debating about Bane's skill level,but in every single incarnation Bane has been Croc's superior.

Every ounce of logic indicates a victory in favor of Bane,unless the writer had a hard on for Croc which in this case is fairly true as Tim Seeley IS a Croc fan and the only writer in Eternal who even bothered to use Croc, Croc was complaining about losing to Bane in the very first issue of Eternal he was introduced in,and more than the loss itself it's the circumstances and implications that bother me. The whole fight had no worth,other than "HAHA I finally beat you Bane"

Making Killer Croc stronger won't make me respect the character, which I do like Croc already, but making him stronger adds nothing to the character. I guess actually writing some good character development doesn't count.

Also, what's so bad about Bane just losing to Croc once? Why's that such a big deal? It doesn't change the fact that Bane has absolutely destroyed him in just about every other fight they've ever had against each other.

@rogueshadow: I re-read the issue last night, and Slade himself even dismissed the notion of having a "weaker" body (which doesn't make sense since in the story he became younger, not weaker, only his appearance changed, not skill). As Batman was kicking him around, Slade mentions at first that it's because of what I-Ching did to him, but then he blamed his "poor" performance on his new eye because his new mask was modified with a black tint. And while I admit that this may definitely affect his performance in some form, it's nowhere near as bad as Slade made it out to be. As we saw in his fight with Bronze Tiger (a top tier martial artist), which he ended in a couple of panels, all he needed to do was close his eye and he gets the job done. Later on in his fight with Batman, Slade mentions that he's a millisecond off, and because of this Batman is beating him or else he would have ended the fight in "three moves tops". I'm sorry but that was exaggerated. "I'm fighting like an amateur!". No, Batman was making him look like an amateur because he was outclassing him, and instead of admitting being out-skilled, Slade blamed his eye. He honestly came off as extremely petty. Ironically, in the next issue, which takes like a few hours max after the fight, Slade mentions how he got used to his new eye, which kind of nullifies the "my new eye makes me weak" argument.

So by your logic, there are no upsets. The underdog never wins. Croc won via using his head and Bane underestimating him. Honestly, I would love to see you make the argument for Bane's skill, the skill that he's never used to win any major encounters (including his previous victories over Croc, which required no skill whatsoever, but by simply being a brute, which Bane is). Could use some laughs.

He is Croc's superior but he lost. It happens. Just because Seeley is a big Croc fan doesn't mean that the victory was unearned. It was written in a way that makes the reader sympathetic with Croc, and done in a convincing manner without downplaying anyone. Again just crybaby fans whining over their favorite fictional character losing a fictional fight. How original. FYI, Croc's loss to Bane was mentioned twice max, and one of them was someone else poking fun at Croc. I already demonstrated in my previous comment how despite Bane outclassing Croc in skill, Croc's victory still worked.

As for the implications, well Croc was simply being separated from the rest of the Arkham crowd, and at the time, Etenal was going through "filler" mode. Croc defeating Bane allowed him to be more credible to separate himself from the other rogues and join up with Selena. Having him getting punked by Bane again and attempting to join Selina wouldn't have made him credible. The victory made Croc credible enough to be grouped with the other villains who were going to be fed to Batman sooner or later. So yes, there were implications. And BTW, Bane getting beat isn't very earth-shattering, and so shouldn't be treated as such.

If all you're going to reply with is hate-filled rants and complaining over writers, without using an ounce of ACTUAL logic, then just don't bother.

Yes that is a huge strength upgrade.

Also, Slade was not 100% in the fight. He stated it himself. He isn't too many prideful, and he was correct in saying that he should've beaten batman. Slade isn't a child. He's a little cocky as an assassin because he is enhanced and kills everyone with ease, but I don't see him as the guy who acts like a child when he is not stomping. He beat BT with ease because he is enhanced. It should've gone this same way with Batman, just a little longer of a fight. He was severely weakened or anything but I wouldn't say he was 100%.

And yes Bane is superior to croc, but that doesn't mean it is impossible for croc to win. People beat people who are better than them all the time, and this croc is better than the old one. He's not an idiot anymore, and he's a lot stronger and tougher. Bane isn't invincible and can be beat. Scott Snyder doesn't have some hatred for Bane, he just wanted to show croc as competent.

No no no, clearly Croc beat Bane by throwing a rock at him.

@black_arrow: "Well Killer Croc already beat Bane with Venom"

Forever Evil

@username12345:

Batman Eternal

I don't really think that Killer Croc can win a majority against Bane (this fight mostly played that way because Bane was overconfident and he also was recently drugged although that didn't seem to have an influence on the battle). I was just putting that example to show that Killer Croc had better feats now that could validate the scan stating that he is a 15 tonner or so.

Croc won because the writer wanted him to win for no other reason other than to prop him up and while every character has this happen to him once a while in this case it had no purpose other than to give Croc 2 seconds of respect in a forgettable filler issue which no writer is gonna even bother to acknowledge. Snyder didn't in Endgame and Pak sure as hell didn't in his annual, Bane>>>>>>Croc that's the consensus even among the writers themselves,only ONE writer chose to have Croc win,said writer was the only one who even bothered to use Croc in the story and since Eternal wasn't even a major Croc story jobbing Bane has no long lasting impact.

I love how you refuse to even acknowledge the fallacy of your own arguments, Croc won cause he used his head you say? but the character with intelligence AS PART OF HIS ACTUAL SKILL SET didn't use his head, how is that not BS? and Bane doesn't underestimate anyone, that again is out of character for him.

There were no implications,it was filler mediocrity, Croc didn't even make it to the Catwoman book and his story was connected to hers, his story is exclusive to Eternal and only one writer within Eternal who loves him too much. No one is going to look at Eternal and say ZOMG what a big Croc story,his victory amounts to nothing.

And Bane is skilled(Pre-52) you dont beat Nightwing,Azrael,King Snake etc without venom and not have high degree of skill,most of his showings in the pre-52 continuity were without venom,how exactly do you think he survived and won without venom may I ask? laugh all you want,you'll only end up making yourself look foolish.

Bane would easily be in the top 10 h2h fighters in the pre-52 continuity,dont believe me just ask k4tz

@black_arrow: I know you didn't write the comic so I can't fault you, but that scene is leaving me face palming into the next century.

Oh well Bane does have a superior record I suppose. 3-1 Bane, and Bane was drugged and cocky here.

May I see the full fight for research purposes? Bane lost like 6 FAIR fights in all his years in comics and more than one was PIS like the Thomas Jagger fight.

@entropy_aegis: Bane tends to hold grudges, like he did with Azreal. I'm sure he's gonna break Crock latter. I wouldn't worry about Crock beating him once to much, unless it becomes a recurring theme. Like I said above he only lost 6 FAIR fights and 2 of them were PIS.

Here I uploaded the file to an album of imgur that I have: http://imgur.com/gallery/0d7cG

@black_arrow: Thank you

@black_arrow: Just read it, it seems like Bane had him on the ropes until the end, Bane will win next round.

"Jobbing Bane has no lasting impact". You're acting as if Bane being defeated is supposed to be a big deal these days. It isn't. This isn't the 90's anymore where Bane has just shaken comics by breaking the Bat. The world of DC has moved on from that. Batwoman beat him. Batman has beaten him a few times, and even in BE, Batman beat him off panel. Freakin' Alfred beat him. And none of those really mattered long term, all they mattered was regarding the context of the story these fights were written in. In other words, Bane's defeat on mattered within the circumstances of a particular story. Whether or not that story is referenced by another writer is up to them. So, Croc beating Bane served the particular context it was written in, which led Croc to being Catwoman's bodyguard, a repeated and consistent aspect of the Catwoman portions of BE. As for Croc not appearing in Catwoman's book, there are a few reasons for that. Firstly, Croc joining Catwoman took place much later after the Catwoman book's new direction (which involved her becoming a Kingpin) had already taken place. If we're judging credibility based on continuity inconsistencies, then buddy you're in for a long night, as there are several inconsistencies between BE and CW. For example, the end of BE teased an alliance between Selina and Penguin, yet if you're reading the latest issues of Catwoman, you would know that, basically the exact opposite is happening. Granted, I don't expect Croc to appear in Catwoman's book any time soon, as that team seems to have its own independent direction, but still his lack of appearance there or in any other book does not nullify the task accomplished in the BE book.

Which brings us to Seeley's script. You know, breaking the 4th wall and complaining about the writer's "fanboysim" really is a flawed argument. I mean, the whole "oh this character won because the writer is a big fanboy" complain screams bitterness over not having the desired outcome more than anything. If it was credible, then we might as well use it for every character. Here I'll do it. *ahem*. "The only reason Bane figured out Batman's identity and broke Batman's back was because Chuck Dixon is a big fanboy for himself and wanted to show off his new character and once that was done he had Bane lose to a fake Batman, and then was tossed to the side so he can focus on his brand new Batman!". Obviously, I'm not really saying that, but I'm using your brand of logic to make my point.

"Bane doesn't underestimate anyone". Back in Knightfall, as in Bane's peak, he underestimated Jean-Paul Valley (when he was wearing the Bat costume but Bane saw through it) in their very first fight because he saw him as nothing more than a pretender, and that was the only reason JPV wasn't killed in that fight and it turned out JPV had more fight than Bane realized. though Bane still won. Point is, at his peak, Bane underestimated someone who would much later come back to soundly defeat him. He also underestimated Alfred who ended up incapacitating him. As for Bane being Croc's superior. We agree on that. Yes he is, and he knows it. And Bane had the fight won, as he should. Croc was at his mercy with Bane ready to break him. Bane never really needed his intelligence to beat Croc in the past, and this was no different. But Bane made one mistake, and that was getting too arrogant (arrogance is a trait that is well in character for Bane) and understandibly so, considering his record against Croc, which cost him dearly against the extra motivated Croc. It's really that simple. It's not like Croc suddenly outskilled and overpowered for no reason other than plot, so it made sense. Bane has his "out".

Yes I know Bane is skilled. But my point is, on the spectrum of "martial artist" and "brute", I'd place Bane closer to brute. A tactical, intelligent and skilled brute, but a brute nonetheless whose immense frame and strength, combined with his force of will and intelligence makes him such a formidable foe. He's not a pure martial artist like say Lady Shiva or Shang Chi. If my memory is correct, he beat Nightwing (albeit a younger version of the character) by overpowering him and tossing him around like a ragdoll. And King Snake? does that even count as a fight? Wasn't Snake stranded in a desert, injured and without food or water for many months and was basically dying when Bane got to him and saved his life? He even tells him that's too weak to fight and just tosses him away. I personally wouldn't go as far as top 10. Maybeee top 20, but at the top of my head I can think of at least 10 characters more skilled.

Getting so worked up and mad over " forgetful filler mediocrity" that was clearly a one time thing is what's truly foolish.

@anjales:

""Jobbing Bane has no lasting impact". You're acting as if Bane being defeated is supposed to be a big deal these days. It isn't. This isn't the 90's anymore where Bane has just shaken comics by breaking the Bat. The world of DC has moved on from that."

Banes always been the toughest Batman opponent:

I think I would have remembered Alfred fighting Bane and last time I checked Batman beat Bane in her comic not Batwoman.

Bane captured Batwoman in The Mystery of Batwoman for the record.

She needed gear to capture him when they fought

She admitted he was to tough for her

Just because he isn't bringing the thunder like he did in knightfall doesn't mean he is less dangerous. That's like saying Doomsday is because he hasn't been used as effectively since the death of superman.

"it turned out JPV had more fight than Bane realized"

The first time they fought Bane humiliated JPV. He said Bruce, in his weak state, lasted longer than him

"As for Bane being Croc's superior. We agree on that. Yes he is, and he knows it. And Bane had the fight won, as he should. Croc was at his mercy with Bane ready to break him. Bane never really needed his intelligence to beat Croc in the past, and this was no different. But Bane made one mistake, and that was getting too arrogant (arrogance is a trait that is well in character for Bane) and understandibly so, considering his record against Croc, which cost him dearly against the extra motivated Croc. It's really that simple. It's not like Croc suddenly outskilled and overpowered for no reason other than plot, so it made sense. Bane has his "out"."

Fair enough, but I don't think any one wants this to become a recurring thing, agreed?

"Yes I know Bane is skilled. But my point is, on the spectrum of "martial artist" and "brute", I'd place Bane closer to brute. A tactical, intelligent and skilled brute, but a brute nonetheless whose immense frame and strength, combined with his force of will and intelligence makes him such a formidable foe. He's not a pure martial artist like say Lady Shiva or Shang Chi. If my memory is correct, he beat Nightwing (albeit a younger version of the character) by overpowering him and tossing him around like a ragdoll.And King Snake? does that even count as a fight? Wasn't Snake stranded in a desert, injured and without food or water for many months and was basically dying when Bane got to him and saved his life? He even tells him that's too weak to fight and just tosses him away. I personally wouldn't go as far as top 10. Maybeee top 20, but at the top of my head I can think of at least 10 characters more skilled."

If brute force was all you needed to beat Nightwimg then Killer Crock wouldn't be a jobber. Bane is definitely top ten, at least currently, obviously he can't fight Batman one million.

@username12345:

Firstly, I don't care about the specifications of these fights, fact is he lost, and the world was not shaken by it. Yes Bane is one of Batman's toughest foes, but his presence among the rogues isn't as glorified as it once was. Proof? In BE, he is regarded simply as one of the Arkham crazies, with no stand out role. Croc stood out more than Bane in that particular book. In one issue, he was even defeated by Batman off panel. Even in your Batwoman scan, Batman defeated his "toughest foe" rather easily. I was simply replying to enthropy over here, who considered Bane's loss against Croc to be some sort of crime against humanity. My point is, Bane getting defeated these days isn't earth shattering anymore. Posting all these impressive Bane feats doesn't disprove that (especially considering some of these are Pre-New 52, which don't factor at all in this debate).

Secondly, if you're going to post the Knightfall fight, at least post the full fight. While Bane seemed to have the fight won here, as I recall, JPV had more fight in him and their bout continued and was actually pretty lengthy. Bane won of course, but he also underestimated Paul. You want proof? JPV was still alive. I think we could both agree that Bane has the skill to easily beat JPV, and even kill him. Yet he didn't, and that's because JPV had more fight than Bane expected, and that's one of the reasons why Bane held a grudge against Paul (besides when Paul beat him of course), and that's what enabled Bane to beat him years later (after several stalemates). And did you seriously post that fight from The Dark Knight? If people are going to complain about the Croc fight, then trust me when I tell you, there's a whole lot I can talk about that horrendous Bane/Batman fight but this isn't the thread for that. Your other scans are irrelevant.

Where did I say that this should be recurring. I honestly don't understand. Since you agree with my statement regarding this fight, why go through all of the trouble of posting Bane's feats. This isn't a Bane respect thread. This was basically my main argument regarding the fight, and since you agree with me, why go through all trouble of posting irrelevant feats and making irrelevant points?

Did I say that Bane "only" had brute force. All I said was that he has always relied mainly on brute force and that was instrumental in his victories. Your scans don't disapprove that. He is a skilled and intelligent brute, and while skill and intelligence obviously factor in, his main advantage has always been strategic use of his size and strength. Your scan of him one-shotting and overpowering Dick is proof of that, and not proof that Bane is a Lady Shiva-type of martial artist. I still don't think Bane makes the top 10. Maybe the top 20. But certainly not 10.

No offense, and I really don't mean to sound rude, but I honestly don't get the point of your intrusion here. None of your scans and "arguments" provided debunked any of my points nor did they contribute anything valuable to this debate.

@anjales: My apologies I just really like Bane. He's my favorite bad guy. No excuses only apologies.

"why go through all trouble of posting... feats"

It took, maybe, a few minuets at most.

"Did I say that Bane "only" had brute force. All I said was that he has always relied mainly on brute force and that was instrumental in his victories. Your scans don't disapprove that. He is a skilled and intelligent brute, and while skill and intelligence obviously factor in, his main advantage has always been strategic use of his size and strength. Your scan of him one-shotting and overpowering Dick is proof of that, and not proof that Bane is a Lady Shiva-type of martial artist. I still don't think Bane makes the top 10. Maybe the top 20. But certainly not 10."

I could post scans of a Batman vs Bane match where skill is the focus of the fight. For the record at first you said top 30 if I'm not mistaken so I win, I guess?

"No offense, and I really don't mean to sound rude, but I honestly don't get the point of your intrusion here. None of your scans and "arguments" provided debunked any of my points nor did they contribute anything valuable to this debate."

I never saw it as a debate, I saw it as a conversation about a character. This isn't a battle thread after all.

@username12345: Well that was more than obvious, but this conversation (and thread) had nothing to do with how "awesome" Bane is. I'd love to discuss Bane with you, but this isn't the thread of that.

And no, I said Top 20 in my initial comment and stood by it...So yes, you are mistaken and you still lose :) :)

That other guy was complaining that Croc's victory over Bane and claimed it was BS and that Tim Sealy is a fanboy, while I was arguing that the fight worked well within the context of the story. And since this thread dealt with Croc receiving better feats, it was appropriate. Your scans of Bane were worthy of a respect thread, but not this one, and so are off topic (as, unfortunately we are doing now, and maybe we should stop :P ) .

@anjales: "you still lose :) :)"

Probably Bane is not a top 10 martial artist, but definitely is one of the most dangerous urban character in the DCU. He's something like Deathstroke (smartness, mercenary skills) and Wolverine (berserker rage in particular and brutality).

Bane has the best w/l record for fights at the street level tier for a villain. He is Batman most physically intimidating rogue with brains and skill, and should be treated accordingly not jobbering out to Croc. But at least he was poison in this lost to Croc. New 52 Bane had already destroyed Croc one on one and beat him along with most of the Arkham Rogues while they were powered-up on venom.

I couldn't disagree with Anjales more, and bringing up Alfred here is ridiculous. Bane saved Alfred in Batman Eternal and Alfred received the benefit of Bane clearing a path through enemies for him. Then all Alfred did was use a code for the hidden Bat Terminal, held his breathe and duck. lol That is not Bane losing a fight.

Until I broke him.

Strength=/=Durability people. Especially when Batman knows just where to hit you.

@supermutant2121: Dude if you're going to call me out for a months old comment, at least understand exactly what I was trying to say. The only reason I brought up Alfred was to show that Bane's status as some sort of formidable big bad has long passed. And though yes it was not a fight, he was still taken down by Batman's butler, I don't know about you, but that's pretty underwhelming for someone who's supposed to be Batman's "most intimidating foe". Gosh...Hardcore Bane fans are so defensive it's ridiculous..

That's the problem you don't even know what you are trying to say. Hush was just recently "taken down by by Batman's butler," anybody can be "taken down" when the plot calls for in especially villains who in general are going to job under most circumstances. Its your opinion not backed up by any legitimate evidence "that Bane's status as some sort of formidable big bad has long passed." Bane has done more in the new 52 than any other Batman rogue by far including knocking out Batman in their first new 52 fight, killing Talon Calvin Rose, beating all those Arkham inmates on Venom, and his new venom makes his quicker and smarter than Bruce per his own thoughts. Hell, Bane had complete control of Gotham again during forever evil until he had to job to Batman at the very end.

So exactly how is he not a "formidable big bad?" Or just admit you don't know what you are talking about.

@supermutant2121: oh for the love of....where do you guys come from...I'm seriously getting too old for this childish nerd crap. Dude I had the exact same debate with someone else months ago on this thread and I'm way passed it, it's not even funny. It seems like you just read "Alfred took down Bane" and went all FANBOY SMASH on me because you thought I offended your beloved fictional character. Look, just read my convo with enthropy and you'll get the gist of what I'm trying to say. Ok great. You don't agree that's fine, I don't care, I'm way past this. This thread isn't even about Bane so stop derailing it, and you can share your thoughts on Bane on a more appropriate thread. Bye.

First--lol you accused me of derailing this thread but admitted you had the same exact debate months ago.

Second--no one is making you respond, so if you are way past this then really be past it.

Third--no one cares about killer croc, this thread would have been dead if it wasn't for bane convo.

Fourth--you was not able to refute any of my points about Bane being as successful as a street level villain could be. Bane has owned almost all of Batman's rogues including Joker, has taken over Gotham City at least 3 times, and beaten Batman, Nightwing, Tim Drake Robin, Azrael JVP, Talon, Judomaster, Ubu, Catman, Hourman, etc. Your claim that Bane is no longer a formidable big bad is ridiculous and shows an utter lack of knowledge about Bane. Especially new 52 Bane whose venom makes his stronger, faster, and smarter than his previous venom.

@supermutant2121: hhhhh ooh boy *shakes head* *rolls eyes* * facepalm* etc... okok ill play along...

1- No. You are derailing this thread by basically turning it into a "BANE RULZ" thread while I was debating the Bane vs Croc fight earlier, which is relevant to a thread called "Has Killer Croc gotten a great strength upgrade?"

2- You're right, no one's making me respond, I just think it's rude when someone calls me out and to just ignore them like that is not like me at all. So are you saying you are not worth my attention? Ok you're right.

3- "No one cares about Croc". umm you do..you're commenting on a thread dedicated to Croc. It actually was off and you brought it back..that makes you a big fat Croc fan....and a hypocrite..

4- oy vey...I don't have to refute any of your "arguments" (or what passes as arguments..more like childish rants but whatevs) because I already made my case months ago and I don't owe you anything as you're not bringing anything new to the table. If you followed my advice to actually read my previous posts, you would have realized that you lost this "debate" before I even made a reply.

In conclusion, you are nothing but an attention seeker trying too hard to force me into a debate I won months ago, and sorry I'm not gonna do that...you're just not worth it and I think we've derailed this thread long enough and so, this is my last reply to you, and I'm being nice enough to let you know that. But as a show of good will, I'm giving you the last word..go ahead go crazy..troll away or I donno make more "arguments" (heh)..I don't care either way because I won't read it, but I'm sure you won't make an even bigger fool out of yourself..Bane would be proud you stuck up for him....oh wait he doesn't exist.... Anyway bubye, if anyone needs me I'll be here actually having a life.

1--Incorrect again, I am simply pointing out how wrong you are about Bane and your lack of knowledge in general. B/c you had no legitimate argument you resorted to fanboy this and troll that. So, I guess everyone has to agree with your unfounded and absurd claims or they are a "crazy troll."

2.--When you post ridiculous statements you shouldn't be surprise when they are quoted and responded too accordingly. I see you do not understand how to admit your mistakes and move on instead of compounding them, and bringing even more attention to your foolishness.

3.--Yet again you don't understand, I said no one cares about Croc in the context of if some of the conversation goes more towards Bane, who cares. You are the only one complaining about the topic being derailed which is funny b/c your statement about Bane was the main reason it got derailed. But you foolishly said that makes me a hypocrite, if so, what does that make you?

4--You have no argument that's why your response was basically to call me a troll and a fanboy and then run away. If you had followed your own advice, it would have been obvious that I read your previous posts of contradictions including your misrepresentation of the Bane/Alfred encounter which I reference in my very first post in this thread.

You have made a lot of assumptions based on nothing more than the fact that I disagreed with you, and unlike you I supported my arguments w/out misleading characterizations and silly opinions. One of my favorite characters is Nightwing but somehow that makes me a Bane fanboy, b/c I pointed out how Bane's history and current portrayal makes him a top street level villain. So here's my advice to you, make sure you know the subject matter you are posting about or otherwise someone like me will expose your lack of knowledge and context. Also, before you claim victory in an argument or discussion, make sure you actually have an argument supported by facts. Having a mini meltdown while calling those who disagree with you fanboys or trolls, and running away is the opposite of victory.

Bane said it best, "Victory has defeated you."

Croc is different from what he was and that is a good thing in my opinion, seeing a character getting a little development is great, while Bane will always remain one of Batman's deadliest villains he has never been one I have really liked if at all, getting to see Croc in a new light is interesting to me, seeing him using his head, thinking for once and coming up with a little idea on how to beat an opponent.

This fight can go either way really but I will place my bets on Croc, the rock throw is unstoppable :3

This thread was a mistake, I turned it into the "let's downplay Bane thread". Bane would beat up Killer Croceventhrough now we can clearly see that Croc is amped in Suicide Squad Rebirth.

Bane would destroy Croc, Seeley just threw Croc fans a bone. Bane has destroyed him multiple times in the past and will do so in the future in any fight not written by Tim Seeley. I love Seeley but you could tell he had a bone to pick with Bane. He had Croc whining about Bane as early as Eternal #18. Either way that whole series came around the time when Bane was in a jobbing phase of his career, those poor feats in Eternal dont add up to his showings in Talon, Arkham War etc.

Hence I called it PIS and a few years later its more than evident regardless of what a certain strawman poster might think. Croc has indeed been upgraded in SS but his "upgrade" is merely the result of him in a super team and not because the writer was actually seriously interested in making him more powerful. When he goes back to Arkham his power will deflate to its previous levels. Sustainable power upgrades go hand in hand with story and character arcs that resonate with fans and other creators. Its why Jason Todd's chop has been forgotten.

Bane on the other hand is now moving towards Ra's al Ghul status in his upcoming series, King's run cemented him as THE Anti-Batman and the one villain who represents Batman's own destruction. He just became the Batman character of the month for April over in Reddit in only the third feature under the deadliest threat to Batman category.

He was voted 4 by fans on Comicsalliance Batman's greatest villains list losing out only to Joker, Ra's and Dent.

Croc on the other hand is doing absolutely nothing in Suicide Squad, movie or comic. Once Dixon is done I can see Bane popping by in Tec and All Star Batman as the main villain.