@lyrafay: Really all there tactics come from him? He barely even speaks most of the time. Let alone make out a plan together with them.

@2cool4fun: He barely speaks becuase Batamn dosnt waste his time talking about nonsense and when he does speak its only about the matter at hand and why the hell would Batman make a plan together with the JL Batman already knows the JL strengths and weaknesses he dosnt need any imput from them

Yeah sure, he's word is law. He can not possible go wrong in any situation.

@2cool4fun: Ugh ok when you are a leader you must use what ever resourses you have to their greatest effect and one of those key resourses is "time" and guess what when the shit hits the fan a leader donst have time to poll every freaking member on what they think they have to act

Which would be?

@jack_donaghy: It's not the lack of power. It's the fact that situations have to be created for him to be useful, rather than him being useful in any situation.

@imthedamnbatman: You do have a point, but that is part of the challenge as a writer, it is the same in any mixed team when writers have to make characters like Cyclops or Captain America useful. That said look at it the other way, the whole reason why fans call the Flash overpowered was because his speed was greatly increased post-crisis and that happened because Superman was faster than him. It didn't make sense to have a character strictly focused on speed being slower so they ramped up, Batman is far from the only character that affects his comarades negatively. This is all part of being in a shared universe and at the end I think, the interactions between characters like Batman and the Flash, who are so different, make it worth it.

@lordofthenorth: you can't be part of a team and not talk to them about things. That's part of being a team, especially when you are a leader.

@avenging_x_bolt: Jl for all intesive purposes is a police force they are reactionary and in that type of group time is of the essance so polling every member to see what they think not only waste time but softens the command structure because if everyone is giving input than why sould any bother listening to the one in command

@crazy_llama: Supes struggles witH a regular Human? You mean tHe Genius Billionaire wHo Has powerful connections and at one point was President? THat's tHe "regular" Human?

WHile Batman struggles witH mostly mob bosses wHo Have a gimmick?

Bats can beat everyone from tHe JL but Has trouble taking down a puppet and His ventriloquist?

-ABstract4$$#073-

Again, just because someone is in your rogues gallery doesn't mean you struggle with them. Do you think Superman has ever struggled with Toyman or the Prankster? And why do you capitalize H's?

@lordofthenorth: yes for all intents and purposes , the league is a police force, and police chiefs and captains do generally accept advice and/or input even though the decision is ultimately up to them. because that's what leaders do. Batman isn't their boss, he's their leader. A leader serves his team an the team in turn serves the world. No ones asking him to consult them on every single thing but the very least he can do is keep them informed. This is why batman is always eventually ousted from his leadership positions. Because people can't trust him. I'm not saying he doesn't

@lordofthenorth: also, "inteseive" is not a word. It's intents and purposes. I'm not trying to be a dick, just letting you know.

@avenging_x_bolt: Batman is a type of person that uses the least possable effort to get the greatest gain and telling the JL info that is ether useless to them or that may even cause problems would just be a waste so of course Batman is going to keep his team informed but only on information that they need to know but more often then not it has been Batman who has left the league becuase of their BS

@jack_donaghy: THe Prankster is still considered to be in Supes rogue gallery?

And, in MetH eyes yes, every Hero struggles, Has trouble, witH a majority of tHeir villains or else... wHy would writers continue to use tHem if tHey aren't wortHy adversaries.

June'sVeryOwn

@lordofthenorth: but that's the thing, Batman tends to withhold information that his teammates consider need to know. As for Batman leaving the League , he has left more than once but only one of them was really do to dissatisfaction the Leagues operation (the one involving the Outsiders founding). Tower of Babel technically doesn't count because they were gonna kick him out anyway and that doesn't even cover his business with the outsiders.and have you ever considered the fact that some of info that causes problems does so because it's wrong?and the whole "save time"argument is b.s . There is literally no reason why the Batman couldn't tell them certain things during downtime. Anyway, I'm done debating it.

Doesn't matter because at one time he was, also in his early days Superman would fight crooked politicians and gangsters. Spider-Man and the Flash also fight regular humans in costumes, is it bad that they struggle with them?

Well usually no but then again they make some heroes so powerful why even be on a team if one or 2 is unharmable or can move ftl if they feel like it. But honestly would u want only guys with rocket launchers in the army? Sure if they point in the right direction and fire they can get the job done but with if the job has to do with intel? Stealth or bomb diffusing ? The RPG crew did well when fighting a tank but they could have had someone to anti-sniper. The world we live in requires specialist in technology and intel gathering. If it's a bad writer than ya he will probably have to go with fly at the enemy faster.

A good example of a mix of strength and skilled team members is in the Young Justice tv show.

They need that wayne money

@jack_donaghy: OH God! You're rigHt FlasH does struggle witH regular Humans. THat's, now, anotHer reason to dislike FlasH.

He can infinite mass puncH a cosmic entity but His rouge gallery is filled witH Humans wHo use gadgets.

Even tHougH, Spider-Man deals witH crooks, most of His villains are not regular Humans, tHey Have gadgets or are freak accidents wHo Have extremely dangerous powers.

And, more importantly He isn't in tHe JL. He isn't even a part of tHe DCU.

But yeaH I guess Bats does deserve to be in tHe JL, POWER WISE. Since, FlasH struggles witH regular folk witH powerful gadgets, but at tHe same time, can run at tHe speed of ligHt.

It makes sense tHat a HigHly intelligent, atHletic Human, wHo Has gadgets can take down a team of cosmic-like/god-like entities, wHile He struggles witH a puppet witH a ventriloquist, a buncH of Mob Bosses and a roided out Human wHo broke tHe bat.

-ABstract4$$#073-

Can't argue with the brilliant logic you're dropping in tHis tHread my man HigH five!

Still a normal man who can be easily killed,and Batman hasn't fought those guys in a long time,take a look at the recent Batman stories,you have a Bane who can leap light houses,undead assassins with incredible healing powers,the Heretic,Wrath,Emperor Penguin etc etc. These are the guys Batman has gone up against recently and all are superhuman,even Doctor Death got an upgrade.Oh and those gimmick mob bosses aka Black Mask also has super powers now(telepathy) similarly the new Ventriloquist and Scarface have superpowers.Your argument is invalid,update your knowledge on the Batlore,current Bane and the Heretic are pushing near Spider-Man level physicals.

And as for this thread,no one deserves to be in the JL other than maybe guys like Spectre,Dr Fate,Alan Scott,the Flash,Martian Manhunter,Constantine and maybe a few others cause they make everyone else completely useless,including Superman.

@jack_donaghy: *Hi5*

He deserves? lol He IS the Justice League!

Not only does he deserve it but hes the more important asset of the team. Martian Manhunter is in the Justice League and Deadman is in Justice League Dark.

Yes. Batman has shown time and time again that he is there not just to pay the bill, but he is one of the most valuable and deserving members on the team. He is constantly figuring things out before anyone else does, defeating his friends when they go rouge, takes out cosmic levellers, saves his friends when they are kidnapped, etc. Know one is more devoted or hard working than he is. He is the: brain, strategist, wild card and most importantly the unbreakable. They did make him their leader after all. He may not be the fastest or the strongest but you don't need powers to be on the Justice League. It's not about powers it's about how effective you are as hero. The real question is: does Aquaman deserve to be there?

@rustyroy: lol

@thegodamnbatman: You dare question the loyalty of the King of Atlantis?

Hmm interesting. Honestly I could see batman being a non-active member of the JL. Sure they can't be everywhere at once and someone as dangerous and resourceful as batman can be extremely useful. But his home is Gotham and his super villains hurt people, neighborhoods, and the everyday mans sense of security, they are not conquering the world.

But then I play some arkham knight and I think holy shit this guy can hang with the best of them

Justice League?

More like Batman and his.....

You know how it goes.

@imthedamnbatman:

Preliminary statement:

Any member of the League could take Batman's lunch with little effort. This is a simple fact.

That moments like that are the best exposure that heroes like Wonder Woman, Superman, Green Lantern, and the rest can give fans shows how sad and thirsty some fanboys really are. And, to make it worse, the Batman is weakly written from the perspective of literate Batman fans. Powers do not sell comics, story does.

Superpowers enable spectacle to cover up a weak story for a while. But, a team book has too many fan bases to get away with style over substance over multiple arcs. Evidence: sales records on comichron over the past 1t years.

Opening:

The initial post is an old and mindless argument. The core flaw is that if no limit fallacy is used for every member of the Justice League there are no stakes. If the no limit fallacy is used for ANY member of the League there are no stakes. This makes it almost impossible for the League to justify its existence within continuiy or to readers. Batman's humanity enables there to be stakes without the carnage that an Alan Moore set piece would render poison to the PG readership's parents.

Marvel is more popular than DC because they do not allow themselves the luxury of the no limit fallacy. Jean can go no limit...but knows she would be completely insane and unpredictable. Molecule Man and Sentry have no limit power levels, and both are bat $hit insane. Pun intended. Marvel has more bounded and flawed heroes, and therefore more popular ones.

No limit power fantasy is fine for the 8-12 year old boy set. When they hit puberty a teenager boy with the choice of dating the blonde or brunette pretty girl/boy will appeal to them more than a powerlevel over 9000. This is why Archie comics could go toe to toe with Superman titles in the 1950s.

Those are meta narrative reasons that Bruce should be in the League. Here is a practical one. The most engaging villains that Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, and even Flash fight are humans without powers. If there are no humans that can fight for good as well as their villains fight for selfishness and evil, then their efforts are pointless. Humans are either able to rise above the violence and hurt in the past or not. DC does not do well with shades of gray.

Conclusion:

Batman is one of the people that they try to save that wants to be able to save his own people. Putting him on the sidelines so that the League/USA can save the World/Brown skinned people from themselves has always led to more dependence, not less. (See that segue there) DC also has a lot of problems due to their aging/monochrome fan base. Batman franchise characters (and Aquaman) are the only ones that bring in large numbers of New/diverse readers each generation. They are also the most consistently well written and drawn. Batman implies quality story and a better chance of getting good bang for the buck. (so does Aquaman)

Post argument comment 1:

Most people that make your posts are trolls ghat do not take time to think let alone read comics with more than superficial glances at the pretty pictures.

Post argument comment 2:

Aquaman is the most consistent member in the league, but he has had no media push from the 1970s cartoon until 2017. Just saying.

@senglord: I have never read an Aquaman comic in my life but do you think that him getting more media attention is actually a good thing? I mean in my opinion movies usually tend to influence a character a lot in the comics, both DC and marvel are guilty of the said act. I know that my question is out of topic, but what are your thoughts on the new movie "JL" that will come out later this year and do you think that it will affect Aquaman as a character in the comics in anyway?

I would just like to say that saying "saving brown skinned people from themselves " is extremely racist! Shame on you senglord!

Yes he does

That's a good question because none of those clowns are in his league. Batman is the greatest superhero ever. He doesn't deserve to sink to their level.

Someone has to build all their stuff and be the tactical leader

@rdclip:

Perfectly said lol

How was this brought up after 3 years? Also yeah of course. Obviously in a straight up random fight, the others would be able to do more physically. But battle tactics and long term planning and adapting to situations on the fly and tech building, well Bruce has those things on lock. Where would they be without him? Same goes for every member. Every member is important, and not all just for punching,. Aquaman's resources as king of Atlantis is beyond important. Lanterns with their corp, WW and the amazons, Supes with his strength and the hope he gives people in accepting the league and is a more human connection than the actual human, Cyborg links everyone to everything. Everyone is essential.

@infantfinite128: lol. Bruh...

Batman's tactics are more crucial to the team than all the physical power they have.

@all-father: Agreed.

What I want to know is how does he find the time to serve on two teams simultaneously AND fight crime solo???

he barely sleeps

I hate Batman outside of his solos, duos or cameos in other Bat themed characters books, so I guess my answer is no.

More than anyone else.

@tvc-15: Even in Trinity? :d

Batman makes them look like clowns.

@thegodamnbatman: lol

If you've read Grant Morrison's JLA...then you know the answer to that.

A lot of the points people bring is that Cyborg is better with tech, Aquaman is better at strategy (maybe), Wonder Woman is a better fighter, Flash is almost as good a detective, and etc.

So essentially Batman is unnecessary.

But are any of them equally as a good on all those areas at the same time? The answer is no, but Batman is. Batman is a jack of all trades. Batman is a detective, combat expert, master general, techonastard. He's a walking Swiss army knife. The reason why Batman is useful is because he's more versatile than all of them.