Comparative analysis of Scott Snyder's most recent interview and Grant Morrison's final Batman interview

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#1 Edited by entropy_aegis (18490 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm pasting the portions of the Snyder interview from the other thread I made

Let’s talk a little about Duke Thomas, who’s been the focus of the “Cursed Wheel” back up stories for the duration of “All Star.” This issue left him in a bit of a tenuous spot — can you tease what readers should expect to see from Duke and his role in the Bat Family in the future?

Definitely. Duke’s played a big role for us in terms of supporting cast for a while and we want people to get used to seeing him with the Bat Family. I get worried sometimes that throwing somebody into the mix in Gotham without a “home” — no matter how cool the character may be — they can kind of wind up vanishing.

With Duke, it’s about long discussions with Geoff Johns and DC about finding the most viable place to land him. Is putting him in the mantle of a known character of somebody else that exists like a Robin or a Nightwing? Or is it trying something original?

We veered towards the latter, so with the next issue, you’ll see a big change in terms of his status and his mission. It’s going to lead into the story I’m doing with Greg Capullo. [Duke] evolves within that story, and you’ll see his role within the Family really crystallize at the beginning of the event [this summer].

So [the “Cursed Wheel”] is going to end with a bit of a cliffhanger. You’ll see the transformation of him into a character will have a very distinct role in Gotham, and with the rest of the Family; and also reveal things about some mysteries going on around the DC Universe as well.

I’ve always really liked “Lark” for him, and that name got a little shout-out in this issue.

Yeah, I do too! Not to talk too “inside baseball” here, but the fact is that I’m really interested in giving a new writer [from my class] a chance with him, and an artist. So the concern I had with [the name Lark] was pointed out by DC, which I think is logical. It’s that that name doesn’t have quite the “teeth” for a series. It doesn’t sound…y’know, [Laughs] “Let’s go get ‘em!”

For as much as I like [the name], it needs a little more “muscle,” according to [editorial], and I would agree with that. So, we’ll see! These are the discussions we have long, long talks and lots of things on the board over.

The takeaway from it is this: At this point in my career, it means a lot more to me to try and create new characters and land them in ways that open up avenues for other writers and artists to drive in. I think [Duke] will get new kinds of stories. If he works [solo], nothing would make me happier. If he doesn’t, he’ll always have a home with the Bat Family.

In 2013 GMO gave an interview to IGN, it was one of his final interviews regarding his Batman run, some portions:

IGN: I think Damian has been a great example of showing that a character can age and evolve beyond the usual accepted status quo of superhero comics. What are the challenges of accomplishing something like that as a writer operating within the structure of a larger universe?

Morrison: For me, it was always to keep in mind that I had one Batman story to tell, and this is how it worked, and he was a story arc, and here’s how it would play out. I always knew I was going to give Batman back kind of like, “This is the way I found the guy.” He’s got his cave, he’s got his butler, he’s got his Batmobile, he’s got his allies, and that’s it, you know? I didn’t want to leave the kid for future writers who may not want to have to deal with that stuff. That’s why Damian’s death was always going to wind down my run, because I wanted to take away anything that could date Batman or trap Batman within a certain set of circumstances.

I tried to bring him up and give him an arc and then take him away within the context of my run. I don’t want the other writers to be stuck with something I’d come up with and was intrinsic to what I was doing. So I kind of kept him to my stuff and there are a lot of other writers who have done great stuff with Damian, but the whole arc of who he was, what he became, and how he’d wind up, was hopefully contained in my Batman run.

Amazing right? the difference in mentality is so striking that I just had to make a thread about it. Morrison literally didn't care about what happened to Damian after him. The fact Damian is back and is enjoying a successful run is...I honestly have no words for it, remarkable maybe. Duke on the other hand...well I have no words for him either. Snyder keeps trying and trying and trying and its just not working. If Duke was going to fly then he would have flown by now, somethings are not in the hands of creators no matter how well intentioned and talented they may well be. Some things are just a matter of luck, timing and fate.

Maybe one day another creator will come up with a cool Black sidekick for Bruce but Duke IS NOT that character and the only thing he does is potentially hurt that eventual character. When it's all said and done DC is going to blame Duke not taking off on the fans and their lack of interest in Black characters. They're going to look at all the times they pushed him and conclude that people dont care for such characters. They're gonna say "oh we gave him an ongoing, we gave him All Star Batman, we ignored Robin from the Batman books, we had him written by hot shots like Snyder and King, we had him star in an event but he still couldn't take off".

Snyder, if you're looking,please just stop.

The bolded part is particularly interesting because that's exactly how I feel about the current Batline. Tynion's book in particular is already dated and so is Night of the Monster Men event. In comparison Wagner's Monster Men from 2005 feels more modern and all because it didn't have to deal with Spoilers and Dukes and Gotham Girls.

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#2 Edited by Eto (1234 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: I believe Damian was something completely new, Bruce's biological son. Yes, he may be a spoiled brat but he had an awesome run with Batman (Dick) nevertheless, and New52 Batman & Robin were amazing as well. Moreover, Damian felt to me way more natural, the character storytelling. Now that we have D.C rebirth, he's in Supersons and Teen Titans and he's acting more mature now (he's just 13 yeah). Then we have Duke which feels quite the opposite to me.

Ooh well

Online
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#4 Posted by Black_Arrow (8502 posts) - - Show Bio

Morrison has always been more interested in exploring the characters and their universes, and telling stories that suits them, instead of chaging them into whatever he wants. It's truly a remarkable difference with a writer like Snyder.

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#5 Posted by Lhynn (288 posts) - - Show Bio

Morrison is a great writer and a good man. I didnt like some of his stories, really liked some others, but i really respected him and what he did with batman. I hang around in some of the most hostile forums on the net and he is unanimously loved there, its a thing to behold. The love and respect he had for his work, and the amount of work and research he did to get it right is nothing short of amazing.

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#6 Posted by entropy_aegis (18490 posts) - - Show Bio

Morrison has always been more interested in exploring the characters and their universes, and telling stories that suits them, instead of chaging them into whatever he wants. It's truly a remarkable difference with a writer like Snyder.

I know right, I actually noted in the other thread with just Snyder's interview how not once Snyder mentioned stories and direction for Duke. All he does is talk about getting him a place and role but he never bothers to answer just why exactly. Characters exist to be objects in stories, they dont exist to have places and star for the heck of it. No story=no place, it's that simple. Fame and popularity is generated over time and is something beyond one or two or even 3 creators or heck even the publisher. You cant bottle fame.

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#7 Edited by RDClip (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

Grant Morrison is a once in a lifetime great writer. Scott Snyder is a decent, but not spectacular writer.

Snyder seems way too obsessed with making increasingly bigger spectacle stories instead of focusing on the thing that matters which is character. With Duke and Harper, Snyder really seems like he wants to desperately put his permanent mark on the Batman mythos. So he forces it by injecting more characters in an already bloated cast. Damian's story and inclusion in Batman's life seemed natural and made sense. Duke is just a shoehorned into Batman stories and DC just accepts it to please Snyder and probably for the token diversity.

It isn't hard to predict that, when Snyder is gone, Duke will either be killed off or forgotten and never used again in any major capacity.

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#8 Posted by entropy_aegis (18490 posts) - - Show Bio

@rdclip said:

Grant Morrison is a once in a lifetime great writer. Scott Snyder is a decent, but not spectacular writer.

Snyder seems way too obsessed with making increasingly bigger spectacle stories instead of focusing on the thing that matters which is character. With Duke and Harper, Snyder really seems like he wants to desperately put his permanent mark on the Batman mythos. So he forces it by injecting more characters in an already bloated cast. Damian's story and inclusion in Batman's life seemed natural and made sense. Duke is just a shoehorned into Batman stories and DC just accepts it to please Snyder and probably for the token diversity.

It isn't hard to predict that, when Snyder is gone, Duke will either be killed off or forgotten and never used again in any major capacity.

Bingo, in a nutshell this is why he has failed to make his pets count. His Batman too is a bland caricature of a character but he's Batman so he can take it. Snyder's characters dont have any personalty and depth, they are mostly slaves to spectacles and cliches aka Snyderisms.

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