@84taskmaster84 said:

I think some writter write Batman up and he is a bit overrated its why i stopped reading batman comics didnt he just kill darksied with his super cool new god killing gun lol in a comic batman wins hands down with any kind of prep i liked batman better when he was a street leveler not the JLA power house doesnt he have on file a way to kill all the JLA and how is batman so feared superman can high five me to death on accident i like bats more when he fought criminaly insane people and got busted up doing it.He has turned into Shang Chi mixed with Reed Richards brain to creat anything he wants and out class anyone its just a bit much for me

It wasn't a super cool new god killing gun. It was a regular gun, firing a Radion bullet, that was developed by Apoliptian Scientists. Bruce had nothing to do with its creation.

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@84taskmaster84 said:

I think some writter write Batman up and he is a bit overrated its why i stopped reading batman comics didnt he just kill darksied with his super cool new god killing gun lol in a comic batman wins hands down with any kind of prep i liked batman better when he was a street leveler not the JLA power house doesnt he have on file a way to kill all the JLA and how is batman so feared superman can high five me to death on accident i like bats more when he fought criminaly insane people and got busted up doing it.He has turned into Shang Chi mixed with Reed Richards brain to creat anything he wants and out class anyone its just a bit much for me

It wasn't a super cool new god killing gun. It was a regular gun, firing a Radion bullet, that was developed by Apoliptian Scientists. Bruce had nothing to do with its creation.

Really didnt know that but hey he still can beat all the JLA and just wanna know how did he get that bullet im sure it wasnt lying around on earth i just heard about it thought it sounded weak more info is always nice

Im sure I will be told im stupid for this, but i feel that Batman is overrated. Is he super bad-ass as a human? Undoubtedly YES. Is he overrated? YES 
 
His comics sell, and so writers give him better and better feats to give the audience what they want.  
 
Example... Batman fights Darkseid. During the fight Darkseid punches Batman in the face. WTF. Batman is a human. No human can take a punch from Darkseid. Thats worse than getting punched in the face by superman. It would kill a human instantly. His head would be mush on the ground. Batman is badass but he is HUMAN. He has a human healing factor and human toughness. Did this punch by a GOD/ETERNAL kill Batman? Nope. Didnt even knock him out. People love Batman so the writers allow him to do ANYTHING. He is extremely overrated. 

Im sure I will be told im stupid for this, but i feel that Batman is overrated. Is he super bad-ass as a human? Undoubtedly YES. Is he overrated? YES  His comics sell, and so writers give him better and better feats to give the audience what they want.   Example... Batman fights Darkseid. During the fight Darkseid punches Batman in the face. WTF. Batman is a human. No human can take a punch from Darkseid. Thats worse than getting punched in the face by superman. It would kill a human instantly. His head would be mush on the ground. Batman is badass but he is HUMAN. He has a human healing factor and human toughness. Did this punch by a GOD/ETERNAL kill Batman? Nope. Didnt even knock him out. People love Batman so the writers allow him to do ANYTHING. He is extremely overrated. 

Given enough time and preparation most people can overcome most problems. That's a basic premise that the writers of Batman seem to follow. Bruce is a very intelligent man with virtually unlimited resources. Add to that his own strategic abilities and insights
and he can overcome most his obstacles. I think what most people grown about is that in the past (sometimes in the present) in a certain situation Batman will pull out some never before seen gadget which is just what he needs to defeat an enemy or get out of 
a sticky situation, only to later be told, well some nonsense  like 'I always wondered what would happen if so and so and I fought, so I had this gadget made'. Sometimes writers use this as a crutch, for their own lack of creativity. That being said I do think Batmen
is somewhat over rated but that's OK, most of the Bat stories lately have been good.

@IKnowEverything said:

Im sure I will be told im stupid for this, but i feel that Batman is overrated. Is he super bad-ass as a human? Undoubtedly YES. Is he overrated? YES  His comics sell, and so writers give him better and better feats to give the audience what they want.   Example... Batman fights Darkseid. During the fight Darkseid punches Batman in the face. WTF. Batman is a human. No human can take a punch from Darkseid. Thats worse than getting punched in the face by superman. It would kill a human instantly. His head would be mush on the ground. Batman is badass but he is HUMAN. He has a human healing factor and human toughness. Did this punch by a GOD/ETERNAL kill Batman? Nope. Didnt even knock him out. People love Batman so the writers allow him to do ANYTHING. He is extremely overrated. 

That comic was written by Jeph Loeb buddy,he had Supergirl own the Flash,Martian and John(GL) and that's just the tip of the ice berg.Every comic and character he's touched has been atrocious.Example being the Red Hulk.

As a character: No, not overrated at all. In fact he's one of the best, easily top 5 comic heroes of all time. Probably top 3...

In VS debates: YEESSSSSS, massively overrated. In fact I'd go so far to say he's the most overrated character in VS debates of all time.

So, I think the character is awesome. One of the coolest, most interesting characters of all time and one of my favorites.

BUT...I hate how everyone seems to think he's invincible and unbeatable, his fanboys actually think he can beat Superman...or Thor...Or Hulk...Or Iron Man, anyone ago knows anything about these characters would know that 85% of all heroes in existence would completely decimate him.

But you see, that's why he's soooo {frick}ing popular in the first place. Because the reader cares about him, and he doesent have powers and the stories are more interesting that way.

because many people find a guy that goes around crushing planets and galaxies to be boring. But a guy who's driven by a psychotic guilt, and tries to stop the psychopaths and killers running around his city. That's a lot more interesting to most people,and that's part of why Batman is so great to begin with.

So, yes and no. As a character: not overrated at all, in VS debates/battle discussions: MOST OVERRATED of all time.

Here's where people get mixed up - if Superman wanted to kill Batman, he could do it. No problem. If Superman had to force Batman to do something Batman didn't want to, Superman couldn't do it. If you're talking a good ol' brawl, it would be a stalemate because while Superman has the ability to destroy Batman, he won't do it. He isn't that kind of person, and Bruce knows that.

Batman is amazing. He is my favorite character, and my favorite version of him is the indestructible batgod that Morrison created. However, Magneto would destroy him. And if the Joker really wanted Batman dead, he could do it. In the Bat Universe though, only the Joker comes close - but that's the thing again - it's against the Joker's nature to actually kill Batman

batman is only overrated by some people not all, generally i dont think he's overrated.

Sort of.

This.

Batman is overrated when people think he could take Galactus with like a year prep.

Batman is not overrated when people think he could take Superman or Wonder Woman down with 2 weeks prep.

- Of course Batman is overrated. However, he is not nearly as overrated as the joker.

- Both of these characters have done things they should not have been able to do, or things that were incredibly ridiculous. Especially the joker.

- As far as i'm concerned , the joker is DC's premiere BS character and i honestly can't wait until he is killed off.

@thejman250: do you hate the joker?

- I could say that however, the writers who write the character, and the editorial that publishes their stories have alot more blame in the situation than the joker himself as he neither writes or publishes his ridiculous stories.

@thejman250: what joker stories have you read?

- Thankfully, i haven't read too many and i don't plan on reading much stories that are specifically about him at all.

- The only reason that i'm going to read Last Laugh is that Richard actually kills him off until Bruce acts like an idiot.

- However, i'm not sure about what constitutes as a "joker story" for you. Would death in the family, or the killing joke fit your criteria? I have to ask, because the term "joker story" is ambiguous and i'm not sure if you consider any story containing the joker to be a "joker story".

Next thing you know it. People thinks Batman can beat God with Prep.....

@batmanfan11: not me just a c list god like darkseid

I actually wonder what their argument would be. Like how would that work. lol

@scoodledaddle: Pretty much. Never liked TDKR anyways.

Yes he is (Though really all the major heroes are at some level) and he and his prep have become one of the worst offenders. Get into an argument about Batman vs any hero or villain, no matter their weight class and it'll go something like this:

Batman vs X, who wins?

Batman.

Really? Why? How's he going to get past this or that ability of X's?

Prep.

What?

You heard me. He'll figure something out.

That's not an answer. You have to explain what exactly he's going to do.

No I don't, because with enough prep Batman can do anything.

I like Batman...but I do feel that he is overrated.

Really? The reason he's overrated is because of some delusional fans? And do fanmade battles really matter? Its not much different than a fanfic. Everyone who reads Batman comics knows he looses more times than most of the popular heroes.

...overrating only has to do with fans.

Definitely not.

I know it's bit late to say this on this thread but 'who would win in a fight' argument is silly and redundant. Superhero comics is a fantastical genre, and reality has nothing to do with it. People beating outside their weight class is not particularly unheard of. In fact it's the commonest thing around. A knight can defeat a dragon here, a barbarian can kill an all powerful sorcerer, a man can triumph over of hoards of gods.

On the other hand, if we see his value in the medium, and judge it by only that, it makes more sense. He has the best rogue gallery in DC, probably in all comics (Spidey comes close, really close, but Bat's take it because they are more recognized by main stream, and has an oscar among them), best side characters who are also strong enough to sell their own titles(some selling more than other JL members), probably the most fertile home ground in Gotham to produce heroes, and of course, most of best stories that came out of superhero comics over the years, a lot of them making the top list of most comic fans.

Like becoming Batman his modern popularity is hard-gained.

To a certain extent yes. Batman's great, and I won't deny that he got me into comics, but DC needs to push other characters besides Batman and Superman.

But Bat-fanboys are the worst. I hate when they say Batman's prepared for anything, yet some of them don't like things like Shark Repellant Bat Spray. There is a level of hypocrisy. Also Bat-fanboys can never realize that there is more to DC than just Batman.

Overrating has to do with massive fans, I've only seen like 10 people saying he can beat anyone.

I've seen dozens to hundreds, some on this forum and many off it. I'd say he has more delusional fans than actual fans, or that the actual fans are far quieter.

I have't seen many threads here than exceeds 500 comments except the off topic, RPGs and popularity competitions ones, and even than its the same fans making multiple comments, and a majority of the the accounts are fakes I believe because only after two or more comments they vanish, and you really can't take these fans seriously, I've seen people say Superman, Flash, MM are overpowered, Wolverine, Batman are overrated, not to mention so many dick joke about Batman and Robin. There's also so many hate threads about Batman, does that prove he's too much hated. And the Batman beats everybody is kind of like a fun joke, like the Chuck Norris memes, those are for fun, they shouldn't be taken seriously.

Except some people do take it seriously, which is my point.

And I generally don't take them seriously, because I know they're wrong. I was simply answering the threads question.

he is a great character,an icon with great stories,but he is overrated,by DC and fans,just because he is DC's most successful character does not mean that they should leave all the characters behind and let batman have all the cartoons,movies,games and be the star of 90% of all the DC events,etc,every character has potential and they deserve the change to use their potential,it's not like batman is the only character that can be successful in DC.

just because you sell,doesn't mean you have to destroy the logic,comics have logic at a certain degree,batman is a human,he struggles with human opponents and can get hurt like any human,it does not make any sense to see him dodging lightnings,taking punches from 100 tonners all that trash,it kills the essence of the character,a human that wals among god and powereful people and use the mind to overcome things,it doesn't do any good to the character to have him doing super human stuff and is silly and lame that he goes from human to god mode when it comes to fets,it's ridiculous and totally against the essence of the character,when that happens,they make him a gary sue that can do anything,and place abov anyone,batman is a great character whem writters are true to his story,the human that uses the power of the mind as the main weapon to overcome obstacles,his life,loss,the detective,the vigilante,that's when he is interesting,when they make him a god,the one with all answers,that's when it's not good.

@gokuwarrior:

he is a great character,an icon with great stories,but he is overrated,by DC and fans,just because he is DC's most successful character does not mean that they should leave all the characters behind and let batman have all the cartoons,movies,games and be the star of 90% of all the DC events,etc,every character has potential and they deserve the change to use their potential,it's not like batman is the only character that can be successful in DC.

I'm rather keen to know what you term as 'overrated'. Because if a company produces a product and if that product has enough mass appeal that it's definitive that it'll earn capital way over it's production cost, that's not 'overrated' by any means. It's call corporate sanity, and good business.

You don't put a limit on a successful product when you know branching it further will add to the yearly income. That'll be well, corporate suicide. Sure, you can always invest in producing other stuffs, i.e. a WW video game (something I'd personally love), or a Flash cartoon, but doing so, in expanse of their most successful product, in this case Batman, the thought of that is downright absurd.

Market researchers are a practical bunch. They know the fans who are buying Batman merchandise wouldn't just shift to (insert any hero you like here)'s merchandise just because they've produced it instead of Batman's. They know that those fans will just find a different way to utilize their money. Some even opting for a game or a show or a comic from their rival company.

just because you sell,doesn't mean you have to destroy the logic,comics have logic at a certain degree,batman is a human,he struggles with human opponents and can get hurt like any human,it does not make any sense to see him dodging lightnings,taking punches from 100 tonners all that trash,it kills the essence of the character,a human that wals among god and powereful people and use the mind to overcome things,it doesn't do any good to the character to have him doing super human stuff and is silly and lame that he goes from human to god mode when it comes to fets,it's ridiculous and totally against the essence of the character,when that happens,they make him a gary sue that can do anything,and place abov anyone,batman is a great character whem writters are true to his story,the human that uses the power of the mind as the main weapon to overcome obstacles,his life,loss,the detective,the vigilante,that's when he is interesting,when they make him a god,the one with all answers,that's when it's not good.

What logic?? You do realize that this is fantasy right? This stuff supposed to be pretty non-nonsensical. And I personally love it just because of it. While I can agree to a certain degree that a singular comic ought to have an inherent logic, but that logic is limited to that particular comic book, or even, the writer's particular interpretation of that character in that particular comic book. Let me give you an example, Rucka's Batman in Batman solo is definitively different than Morrison's in JLA, who in turn is different from Waid's in JLA, and who also is different from Snyder's version of Bruce. The thing is, this is both the limitation and the freedom of comic book as a literature, that there is no 'true' interpretation of a character, or any character for that matter. It's a writer's prerogative to pick and choose, to induce as much 'reality' he wishes to, and discard the rest. And if in the context that is working, I'll say it's a win.

As for 'dodging lightning', or 'taking punches from hundred tonners', sure. If it's explained and is applicable to the context, then complaining about it is quite redundant.

And if you are really looking for a 'gary stu' like personae in comic book, look no further than Supes. Clark is what most of us are in real life, Bruce is what we aspire to be. Heck, your logic right there can be applied to ANY hero, across spectrum. Writers keep adding powers to their character in every other issue. Off point here, but I really think there's a need to mention it, Supes too get quite an attention from DC. With the number of comics being released with him in the title, some would say John's JL has basically become, 'Superman, and his friends', the SMWW trash, and five (I think) supes tittles, and the other S books, it's bizarre, because beside Unchained, Supes hasn't shown any promising return in any other titles of his. Even Unchained is on a downward curve. Plus not to forget a ten year ran tv series, a new movie. And yet people find time to complain about Bruce. But admittedly here too the same logic applies, the fans wouldn't just shift to whatever character's merchandise they might have replaced Supes' with. They would just find another way to spend their bucks.

It's business, plain and simple.

@tamal_kundu:overrated because no matter how popular he is,doesn't mean they should trash other characters allowing him to beat even god you know what i mean?,there is a logic at a certain degree,he is human and struggles with human opponents,you can't tell me that seeing him one shotting aquaman,manhunter,etc it's believable,he can beat certain powerhouses with enough pre time,that's good,but there is a limit,when they make it seem like he can take down anyone and anything on the universe with pre,it is ridiculous,he has come to a level of hyped by some fans,where DC turned him into a god disguised as a human that has plot armor allowing him to beat anyone,even one shotting bricks because they are afraid to make him look bad by letting him lose a fight,even if he is fighting darksied,or superman,wonder woman or god,all because of the hype that he has nowdays,and i don't agree with that,i love batman as the human,the genius,the martial artist,the detective,the vigilante,but don't like him in those stories where they turn him into a being that can solve anything in the universe,take 100 tonners down with a punch and all that trash,so again,he is great and popular,but being popular shouldn't be a reason to make him beat powerhouses in a random fight just because he is more popular than them and everyone else,that hyped is not a good thing.

that is the reason.

@gokuwarrior: Batman pretty much gets beaten by other heroes, in fact in New 52 he's been beaten more any hero, and he's been beaten or overpowered by most heroes in New 52 and is pretty much useless in New 52 JL.

@gokuwarrior: overrated because no matter how popular he is,doesn't mean they should trash other characters allowing him to beat even god you know what i mean?there is a logic at a certain degree,he is human and struggles with human opponents,you can't tell me that seeing him one shotting aquaman,manhunter,etc it's believable,he can beat certain powerhouses with enough pre time,that's good,

Err, that doesn't really constitute what people generally consider as 'overrated.' The term generally distinguishes something about which people 'have a higher opinion of (someone or something) than is deserved'. And Batman, with the number of great stories to boot, with mass, and critical appreciation, iconic main lead, and iconic side characters, one of the most mythical and memorable setting more than deserves what he has become now. That was my original point to begin with.

I think what you're looking for is 'mistreatment', or 'pedestaling', tangibly. But I'm not sure.As for the part with 'god', again I'm not sure what you are ascribing to godhood, but nevertheless, here is the thing, the most popular trope in fantasy, or any genre fiction for that matter, is the 'victory of the underdog.' In a confrontation where ON PAPER, the more powerful one should win every time, but it's the relatively weaker, the underdog, the dark horse winning in the practical application, it's as common as salt water.To use a biblical analogy, in reality, Goliath should have won over David, time after time. Why couldn't he just duck, or lift his shield, or even wore a helm. But because it's fiction, David triumphed. And admittedly he triumphed also because he represented the 'us' of the story, beating the 'them'.

Reality has nothing to do with fiction, particularly fantasy fiction. It's writer's choice to apply as much he chooses to, the rest is make belief. I think the sheer fact that Batman spinoffs such as Nightwing and Batgirl having better sale figures than WW and The Flash is telling in itself. Who are the 'us', and who are the 'them' have gotten clearly accentuated. It's a moot point though, as I said, it's the writer's prerogative, Bruce or Clark have been on this side of embarrassment enough times. in different media, with different writers pedestaling the characters they were writing at the time, or if it's JL, any ABCD character. And personally? I find that to be okay. Because again, it's the writer's prerogative.

but there is a limit,when they make it seem like he can take down anyone and anything on the universe with pre,it is ridiculous,he has come to a level of hyped by some fans,where DC turned him into a god disguised as a human that has plot armor allowing him to beat anyone,even one shotting bricks because they are afraid to make him look bad by letting him lose a fight,even if he is fighting darksied,or superman,wonder woman or god,all because of the hype that he has nowdays,and i don't agree with that,i love batman as the human,the genius,the martial artist,the detective,the vigilante,but don't like him in those stories where they turn him into a being that can solve anything in the universe,take 100 tonners down with a punch and all that trash,so again,he is great and popular,but being popular shouldn't be a reason to make him beat powerhouses in a random fight just because he is more popular than them and everyone else,that hyped is not a good thing.

No, there isn't, there really, really isn't any limit. If a story is written that shows, he has brought down a god (whatever falls into that description), or Supes, or WW, or Darkseid, prep or no prep, if the story is engaging, the plot well defined, great characterization, then I see no problem whatsoever with it. Same as say, if I see in a story Aquaman saving the universe, when the rest of JL have become useless, and he somehow has managed to outwit Lucifer Morningstar? If that story meets the previously mentioned criteria, I'll accept it with equally open mind.

I'll take not mentioning the connection between popularity and product outlet as agreement. As for popularity and that leading to somehow him beating other characters, here I agree. Specially when My point was never to the contrary. But as I said, if that meets those criteria, I'm definitely sold to the idea, as I'd be with any other superhero.

And the hype? Tis earned my friend, through Adam Wests, and George Clooneys, not an apple that fell into the Batlap.

@tamal_kundu:there is never a reason for batman one shotting bricks other than because he is batman,where is the explanation of why he can one shotte characters that take nukes?,i never read any explanation when it happens,it just happens and that's it,that is not something good writters and companies should do if they call themselves profesionalists,it's all that plot armor that he has to beat them without a good reason just beause he is DC's biggest money maker and i don't agree with that,it takes away part of the seriousness and essence of the character,it makes the different between humans and powerhouses completely useless,it makes powers pointless,and the story lame and cheap because it has no explanation as why a peak human one shottes bricks,i would feelñ the same way if the did the opposite and make superman or wonder woman a solar system buster for no reason,without explanation,it's not right to give characters special treatment in the stories based on the comercial success of the characters,because then the story is not about the characters and story itself,it's about the money alone and it turns those stories in something full of inconsistencies and holes that can't do any good.

i don't think he is useless,his brain will always be a key card for the JL,but i'm talking about his career as a whole,he has done countless things out of his league just because he is the most successful so DC allows it,he is a great character that i enjoy a lot,but i don't agree with certain things that happen around him sometimes that are based on the fact that he sells mor than others,so they let him do things a human can't really do,like there is never a reason for batman one shotting bricks other than because he is batman,where is the explanation of why he can one shotte characters that take nukes?,i never read any explanation when it happens,it just happens and that's it,that is not something good writters and companies should do if they call themselves profesionalists,it's all that plot armor that he has to beat them without a good reason just beause he is DC's biggest money maker and i don't agree with that,it takes away part of the seriousness and essence of the character,it makes the different between humans and powerhouses completely useless,it makes powers pointless,and the story lame and cheap because it has no explanation as why a peak human one shottes bricks,i would feelñ the same way if the did the opposite and make superman or wonder woman a solar system buster for no reason,without explanation,it's not right to give characters special treatment in the stories based on the comercial success of the characters,because then the story is not about the characters and story itself,it's about the money alone and it turns those stories in something full of inconsistencies and holes that can't do any good.

Even if we consider his whole career, he'd still be the one who got beaten by a other hero most times, one shotting bricks is normal for comic book humans, every comic book character does many things that a normal human can't, even the most realistic ones, Batman never one shotted characters that can take on nukes, if he did then thank New 52 for retconning them, Superman also used to be a solar system buster, but he started as a slightly above peak human level character, and now he can not only fly but also do things he could've never done in the golden age, I doubt Wonder Woman was as powerful as she is today, every comic book character has the plot armor but everyone only seems to notice Batman's, why? Because he is the most popular.

it's not good to have characters doing things out of their league just because they are popular,batman has one shotted characters that can take nukes,manhunter,wonder woman,etc.

by the way,wonder woman was much more powerful before than now.

I don't remember him one shotting MM, WW except one or two times and those have been retconned.

In the Golden Age? I don't think so.

he hasn't done it now yet,but batman has one shotted bricks that take nukes many times before new 52,and it's more likely he'll do it again.

golden age wonder woman move planets.

I don't remember him one shotting bricks that can take nukes, you got scans or proof? And what makes you think he'll do it again, and if he does he'll probably have a power upgrade.

I think you're talking about Silver Age WW.

manhunter and wonder woman both have taken nukes and worse,and he has one shotted them and others too.

you can find a depowered wonder woman vs batman topic,where somebody posts scans of batman one shotting aquaman,manhunter and wonder woman(with her powers),we know he should break his hand hitting any of them,but that is just one example of many times where they protect him with plot armor to make him look good.

and i know it is more likely he'll do it again,because his success is making DC be afraid of ever let him lose against most powerhouses he faces in a random fight,they depend on him completely at the cartoons,movies,now to sell superman's sequel they will depend on batman too,so be ready to see batman doing superman level feats in comics even though he is just peak human.

by the way,that's my observation,i still think that he is a great character when they don't go out of line.

As I said before, he did that maybe one time and that was long time ago and is now retconned, there have been plenty of times WW, MM etc have beaten him. He hasn't beaten any Superhuman hero in New 52 as far as I know, and DC made him lose against many powerhouses in PreN52 and in New 52.

batman used to one shotte or hurt peoplen like manhunter and wonder woman in some stories before new 52,it happended more than once and i hope you are right,i hope it doesn't happen again,because we know he should break his hand hitting any of them,let's hope DC will keep everybody at the correct level and don't do inconistencies for the sake of a plot to make a certain character look good.

The DCAU Batman was overpowered.