As most of you know the batman and wonder woman romance has been hinted at many points of comic book history(JLA series, blackest night, etc). In the New 52 the batman and wonder woman romance is not even hinted is the mildest. would you like to see a New 52 romance or are you happy with Superman and Wonder Woman. BTW what are your opinions of the new wonder woman, mine are not that pro

I'm going to give you answer before the modern day Superman fanboys come to spam SM/WW in this thread.

I think SM/WW killed any enthusiasm with Trinity pairings. Batman/Wonder Woman was never an actual romance. It was only a mutual attraction. Which is the far superior way of writing Trinity pairings. The relationships are not so serious and don't affect the characters too much. Superman/WW is a actual attempt at a romantic couple and look how mixed the opinions are on them. You have a large group that hates it, a smaller group that loves it and a tiny group who are not interested. So no to both of those questions.

As for Wonder Woman. I enjoy AZZ's Wonder Woman, but I can understand people having mixed feelings on her portrayal. I'm not fan of really anything else she is portrayed in currently.

@johnni_kun: Very well said. Her relationships with batman or superman should be more playful and flirty.

@batmanismortal: It was slightly hinted in trinity war superman was raging and I think his mind was going crazy from the kryptonite but he angrily asked wonder woman if she would just move on to batman after him. Not really a hint at a relationship but worth mentioning

While i thought they where interesting together in the JL cartoon have to say dont think any of the trinity should be in a relationship together they have always worked best when they have different points of view plus when you put them in to a relationship it makes makes one of the trinity kind of a third wheel.

As for WW comic cant say i really like it while interesting it feels like after AZZ is done if didnt realy leave the next writer any where to go since he completely killed off most of the gods and made Diana the god of war which is stupid and makeing her the duaghter of Zeus is a neat idea but its completely boring i mean the guy has kids coming out the ass a better idea would have been to make her the duaghter of Hades which would have made for great contrast to her kind and passonite personality

Answering the last question first, I do enjoy the new 52 Wonder Woman and by new 52 WW, I mean the solo WW, not the JL version. To be honest I think Azz's run was probably the best of the new 52 (John's Aquaman close).

Now for the first question, no, I do not want to see a romance between Wonder Woman and Batman in the new 52, it was pointless in the JL cartoon, it was pointless in the comics, to be honest I never bought the romantic attraction between the two. I also don't want to see the romance between Wonder Woman and Superman continue, though I do think it is the better written pairing of the two, I just don't think that it is a good idea for Wonder Woman to be dating a hero that's more powerful than her. Long story short, no dating within the trinity.

@youknowwhattodo: I also don't want to see the romance between Wonder Woman and Superman continue, though unlike @johnni_kun I do think it is the better written pairing of the two, I just don't think that it is a good idea for Wonder Woman to be dating a hero that's more powerful than her. Long story short, no dating within the trinity.

To be fair, I never said that is was better written. I said that it's was the better way of writing a relationship between Trinity members. I can't possibly see how I could compare the two. As I said, one wasn't even in a romantic relationship. And I can tell you that negative opinions on the couple would not be so severe if it was written as only attraction.

Nope.

@johnni_kun: That was my mistake, when I edited my comment the first time I wanted to remove the mention but I wanted to add something else so by the time I was done, I forgot the original purpose of the edit.

Batman as a character doesnt work in a serious relationship. To put him in a serious relationship is to eliminate some of the angst that makes him so popular.

Also, like Grant Morrison points out, Batman isnt really into the ladies.

And most important of all when it comes to Wonder Woman: Due to Batman's playboy aspect, and the fact so many fanboys love it, any female character paired with him instantly becomes nothing more than a notch in his belt, and a part of "Batman's Story" (rather than a mutual story that is shared).

So definitely a big fat no from me. And I am really happy with the Superman/ Wonder Woman pairing, I hope it becomes the status quo, and if it lasts long enough, the minority of people who are haters will eventually get over it.

@youknowwhattodo: It's cool.

@deaditegonzo:

Also, like Grant Morrison points out, Batman isnt really into the ladies.

One man's opinion does not define a character. What if people fallowed Frank Miller's opinion on how he portrayed Superman in DKR? What really was the point of this comment?

And most important of all when it comes to Wonder Woman: Due to Batman's playboy aspect, and the fact so many fanboys love it, any female character paired with him instantly becomes nothing more than a notch in his belt, and a part of "Batman's Story" (rather than a mutual story that is shared).

This is a silly responsive. Batman has been with many women in that past and none of are associated with him except Catwoman, Talia and maybe and I mean maybe Wonder Woman.(not everyone watched JLU) About the same as Superman's Lana, Lois and Wonder woman. Those are the only characters that are definitely considered "Batman's girls." Batman can be in a relationship that is more than just a fling. They won't do it, but it's very possible. The fact that it has never been done, doesn't mean it can't. Miller Bat is not the only type of Batman. Batman can have a mutual story that is shared. Batman/Superman and Batman and robin is evident at showing that. What is the difference between his relationship with men and than women? If Robin/Superman were women instead, you could easily see a romantic relationship between them. Hell, Batman already gets gay jokes about him and Robin/Superman. As well as in depth analysis on the their relationship. He can have a serious relationship that would not affect what embodies him as a character. It seems to me that your opinion on Batman is too stereotypical on how he should be portrayed.

@batmanismortal: I've always been a fan of the Bats-Wondy romance. However, as long as Geoff Johns has anything to say about it, we are going to see many good things for Batman, at least not in JL titles.

@johnni_kun: Im just going to have to disagree. Batman is a plot black hole, anyone with him is immediately sucked in. They stop having any characterization and become plot devices for him

The most recent Superman/Batman showed this, Earth2 is showing this, Forever Evil is showing this, I seriously could go on and on. It would be all about Wonder Woman learning to respect Batman, because even though he is human he is the most powerful being on Earth. And then she'd ask him for Martial Arts pointers. Any character who has a fanbase of their own doesnt deserve the Bat Effect ruining them.

So, like I said, I disagree.

And I dont think Morrison's opinion of Batman is the "canon one", but I think he has the most objective perspective on the character. I wasnt trying to prove any point, I was just stating my opinion.

"He’s very plutonian in the sense that he’s wealthy and also in the sense that he’s sexually deviant," Morrison told the magazine. "Gayness is built into Batman. I’m not using gay in the pejorative sense, but Batman is very, very gay. There’s just no denying it. Obviously as a fictional character he’s intended to be heterosexual, but the basis of the whole concept is utterly gay." ... "I think that’s why people like it. All these women fancy him and they all wear fetish clothes and jump around rooftops to get to him. He doesn’t care -- he’s more interested in hanging out with the old guy and the kid." -Grant Morrison

I would love to see it, the idea of a mortal man being wise, strong and morally righteous enough to gain the love of an Amazon is interesting to see. Reminds me of the old myth of Achilles and his Amazonian lover. Also love how their intimidating personalities sort of fit with each other.

Diana needs Bat swag in her life.

Not a big fan of batman being in any type of romance to be honest, not even for selina or talia.

kind of sounds like grants more so joking to me. But there are some gay things about bats

always thought grant hinted that batman actually had feelings for tailia and Jet (before he figured out she was part of the black glove)

@deaditegonzo: Im just going to have to disagree. Batman is a plot black hole, anyone with him is immediately sucked in. They stop having any characterization and become plot devices for him. The most recent Superman/Batman showed this, Earth2 is showing this, Forever Evil is showing this, I seriously could go on and on.

Exaggerating to that degree. Nope, not even going to try with a responsive like that.

It would be all about Wonder Woman learning to respect Batman, because even though he is human he is the most powerful being on Earth. And then she'd ask him for Martial Arts pointers.

Or it would be Wonder Woman showing him his limits, faults and how to rise above them. Batman can and has been portrayed more than just Batgod. It's almost like you are not aware of anything relating to him other than his stereotypes. Or at least you don't retain anything. Superman is still usefully and portrayed on the same grounded as Batman is in their comic. They just have very different parts to play. That's it(But, I'm sure you see it differently.) And when it comes to women who are known to be portrayed the worst in the comics industry, writers do not hold back. They are not afraid to shake up Batman's image and Fanbase.

Hell, look at the Injustice Gods Among Us collector's edition. This what DC and WB did to a whole different audience. Video gamers.

Any character who has a fanbase of their own doesnt deserve the Bat Effect ruining them.

So along as it not Batman then it's okay? Wonder Woman is supposed to be the epitome of an strong independent female superhero. Superman constantly shows the parallel of inferiority in her character. It literally affect the core concept of her character. ("blah, blah, blah did you read that 1 issue of SM/WW?" Yes I did.) Superman eclipse her in both ability and presence. Something that they can't change at the end of the day. She just the Girl that can handle Superman in bed now. It's sickening.

And I dont think Morrison's opinion of Batman is the "canon one", but I think he has the most objective perspective on the character. I wasnt trying to prove any point, I was just stating my opinion.

So your opinion on Batman and what embodies him as character boilings down to Homoeroticism.? Not Vengeance, or Justice. It's the one quote that some may find negative. You think out of all the the insights that creators of the medium, that this quote is Batman? Well I do find that quite strange. But, all things considering from your perspective on the character, not surprising. I'm going to throw another Grant Morrison quote at you. Since you consider his opinion so highly regarded. One that I think you should reflected on when you see illogical moments in comics. Or as in this case Batman's relevance.

“Adults...struggle desperately with fiction, demanding constantly that it conform to the rules of everyday life. Adults foolishly demand to know how Superman can possibly fly, or how Batman can possibly run a multibillion-dollar business empire during the day and fight crime at night, when the answer is obvious even to the smallest child: because it's not real.” - Grant Morrison

@johnni_kun: I love this post especially that last picture ( ILL KILL THE MAN WHO DREW THAT but first I wash my eyes)

But seriously took the words out of my mouth

I would've loved it if there was a long time romantic relationship between those two in PreN52. I'm not sure I'd like it in New 52, they don't even talk very much or have any mutual respect between them and she's dating he's best friend. But yeah if its done in a good way I don't have any problems, I loved them in JL/JLU, also in PreN52 they had many nice moments. But I prefer her with Orion and him with Zatanna. One thing for sure is her relationship with Superman doomed more than it could've been with Batman. Batman never had any permanent relationship with anyone, Superman and Lois are one of the most iconic romances ever so SM/WW won't last.

As for Grant Morrison comment, some people are misinterpreting him, all he said the concept of Batman was gay(possibly refering to the Silver Age), not that Batman was gay, and he was not serious, you can see that from his comment about Alfred and Robin, he more than any one of us knows that they have Platonic relationship with Bruce because he has written them that way, and he created one of the most popular love interests for him, Jezebel Jet. Even Superman's concept like Batman and Wonder Woman is somewhat gay.

@johnni_kun:

Its just as bad as Superman/WW pairing. Its unprofessional at best and forced at worse. I don't really care if its been hinted at. Besides, I believe at one point WW blatantly states she's attracted to both of them Pre-52, so I don't see any less of a "hinted at" history with Superman.

Hell. Aquaman and WW were attached to each other as teenager and have kissed. Do I want to see them together? No.

Members of the JLA shouldn't date each other - at least not the big 7. As said, its unprofessional at best. These guys are the leaders of the hero world and represent the best of them, we don't need some soap opera crap distracting from that message.

I enjoy the SM/WW book. A lot actually - but not because they're together. It would be just as good, possibly better if they were just teaming up to fight bad guys and weren't dating.

Batman/WW is really just plain stupid. It felt extremely forced in the JL cartoon, Batman (while I do like him with Catwoman,) does not need to date his fellow Trinity/JL member as its a working relationship, there is no romance. Diana is better off with Steve Trevor, he keeps her grounded, far more than Batman. Even she's far better being independent!

iam interested in the Batman and Wonder Woman story coming up the fact is they have had about zero contact with each other since the new52 so it should be interesting to finaly see how they see each other and how they interact

@johnni_kun: i agree. the way I see it is that i don't like wonder woman, JL wise. in the JL comic books she is portrayed rather vicious and just cold. i don't know how she is in the WW series because i don't read them. i loved WW back Pre52, she was just a character that was enjoyable to read, she isn't anymore. personally i understand why they started new 52 but i would prefer if they kept there core characters the same, keep the main points of their history the same.

@johnni_kun: I simply disagree. Id say you think Batman isnt written with PIS in the crossover books, and doesnt overshadow the other star, because youre a batfanboy. Youd argue that I disagree because im a bat-hater. It just goes round and round, and its pointless.

As someone who actually likes Superman, for example, i thought his portrayal at Batman's hands in the Annual was appalling and inconsistent with his usual showings. You would disagree, because presumably you dont like Superman. So if there was a Batman/Wonder Woman comic, and all it was was Wondy being constantly in awe of Bats, you wouldnt be upset, because presumably you only care about Batman. You wouldnt even recognize it was happening, because youre seeing from a Batfans perspective, not a "X fan's perspective". As a Wonder Woman fan, id be disgusted.

I have the collectors edition of Injustice, and from the context of the game, i took that statue completely differently than you apparently did.

And I dont care what the general audience thinks about comics they dont even read, I dont even care what BatFanboys think. As long as im having a good time, thats all I really need.

And yeah, id say homo-eroticism is a big aspect in Batman's conceptualization. But id go further and say Batman is a cipher for people's outsider fantasies. Theres nothing wrong with it, in my mind, but im not part of the audience for such a character. Ive never felt ostracized, so concepts like "Superman and Wonder Woman dating is like a jock and a cheerleader" never bothered me, but it sure riles up BatFans.

I'm sure Superman and WW were meant to B.

As both a Batman and Wonder Woman I would them both to be working together and be shown equal. I would also like them to admire each other's abilities and skills. Like in what SM/WW is said to have.

I would say it is also part of Wonder Woman's conceptualization as well one more thing they have it in common.

@deaditegonzo: Are you talking about the batman superman annual? That wasn't that bad for superman fans. He was weakened by kryptonite and a kick from jochi. I know usually supes doesn't get affected that much by kryptonite but I heard he fainted in the presence of it in new 52 and I know he was ghastly sick in trinity war from it. So it seems its starting to actually affect him in new 52. Which is a good thing. His weakness should actually affect him. No shame in getting beat with your weakness right?

Technically Lois and Superman are as she was created for that role.

No.

I ship Batman and Wonder Woman. If this happened it would be great.

@deaditegonzo: I simply disagree. Id say you think Batman isnt written with PIS in the crossover books, and doesnt overshadow the other star, because youre a batfanboy. Youd argue that I disagree because im a bat-hater. It just goes round and round, and its pointless.

I never said you were a Bathater. I brought up the possibility of your bias nature. That was it. I could play your childish games of pointing finger. But, I won't. I'm not a Batman fanboy, I just like the character. I'm willing to give him more credit than you are. I'm willing to believe that he is not the embodiment of everything that is wrong with DC Comics. I'm just not one sided on my opinion on these character interactions with each other. I wish you could say the same.

As someone who actually likes Superman, for example, i thought his portrayal at Batman's hands in the Annual was appalling and inconsistent with his usual showings. You would disagree, because presumably you dont like Superman.

I would disagree becuase I believe that it's not a severe as you like to make it. Everytime Superman is put in situation with Batman, the writers make it very clear of the logic of Batman's being. However, that not good enough for you. You wouldn't be satisfied unless the writer made it even more blatantly obvious of Superman's superiority.

So if there was a Batman/Wonder Woman comic, and all it was was Wondy being constantly in awe of Bats, you wouldnt be upset, because presumably you only care about Batman. You wouldnt even recognize it was happening, because youre seeing from a Batfans perspective, not a "X fan's perspective". As a Wonder Woman fan, id be disgusted.

So your whole argument is base on assumptions. You have nothing to back up your claims and will continue to says things like: Wonder Woman would just worship Batman and I'm a Batfanboy. This is the type of person I'm trying to have a debate with? Ugh.....

I have the collectors edition of Injustice, and from the context of the game, i took that statue completely differently than you apparently did.

I do not find that surprising base on your distorted views on anything Batman related.

And I dont care what the general audience thinks about comics they dont even read, I dont even care what BatFanboys think. As long as im having a good time, thats all I really need.

Clearly, considering that you are not at all concerned with how negative a character like Superman affect her as a character. But, as long if it's Superman and not Batman who cares right? Right? You're having fun, that's all that matters.

I could make a case that I'm a big fan of Superman. Or should I say pre-52 Superman. I'm still waiting for Superman to get back to that similar characterization.(Greg Pak so far has been doing a good job at that.) But, I feel that would be a lost cause. I not here to change your mind. That is clearly a wasteful act. I'm here to make a case and that is all. You don't have to agreed. However, I would advise you should at least look at SM/WW from Diana's perspective. Instead of just Clark's. Maybe, just maybe you will see the harm to her from characters on Superman's level. Maybe read some fans of Wonder Woman opinions on this whole situation. Then I'm sure you will see how one sided the relationship really is at it's core.

@jayc1324: I actually appreciate your perspective you give here. Its very neutral, and I respect that. Kudos man.

Trinity War actually sort of contradicts that showing in Superman/Batman, imo.

Gallery

As you can see, Supes was able to AOE EVERY MEMBER of both leagues, with Knite IN HIS BRAIN. Look at the second scan to see the heavy hitters involved. This was knite in his brain, but the reaction was minuscule compared to the effect of Knite that is about 15 ft from him in Superman/Batman. And he goes along in this condition for several issues, fighting heavy hitters the whole time.

Basically, the only time K-Nite has had much effect is when it is coupled with Batman. That ring sure did make him faint... And it was Batman's ring. If the writers wanted to, they could make it so Batman just gave off some unexplained aura that depowers Superman, and i'd actually prefer it, because it would explain the inconsistency. Make Batman one of Superman's weaknesses, i dont care, but dont use PIS every time they cross paths.

No Batlove in the air for you brah?

@deaditegonzo: Thanks, and that's a very interesting idea you have there too. It might end some of the PIS claims and batman bashing. For now though, the only explanation I can come up with is that Batman's kryptonite was much bigger than the little piece inside his brain, but that's still inconsistent because it should have an even stronger effect inside his brain. So it doesn't make sense either way. Cool idea though haha

@johnni_kun: Wonder Woman has saved Superman's a** twice against HIS OWN villains. If I was as insecure as some of the others on here, I could even make the argument that Superman has been portrayed as the submissive partner in the relationship. Which honestly, even if he is, I DONT CARE. The problem for you and people like you is that youre looking at each showing of Supes and Wondy as a competition, instead of how it all comes together in the narrative.

Whereas with Batman, she would have to be gimped just to make him relevant. Imagine Wondy having a scuffle with the Olympians in a Batman/Wonder Woman comic. Anything Batman contributed would be PIS.

We just disagree. Its a severe difference in perception, with your batfandom and my preference for literally any other character. Just as an example, I dont even particularly like Cyborg, but when Batman does something with gadgets that Cyborg couldnt figure out: IT PISSES ME OFF. Its insulting to weaken another character, just to make the "normal human" (who everyone likes because he's "just a man") look useful.

And maybe you should just accept this is how Superman is now, and that the pre52 is never coming back. Either get with the program or move on.

For my last statement, I would say you should look at any team up book that Batman has been in since the New52 started, from the less popular characters perspectives. I will give you an example from the first six issues of Justice League to consider: Batman STEALS Hal Jordans ring. Regardless of concentration, the ring has an auto shield. WTF?

Or how about this: As I posted above, the only time K-nite instantly turns Superman into jelly is when Batman is involved. K-Nite Man < Batman. Metallo < Batman. Knite In Superman's Brain < Batman. Kryptonite Men + Superdoom + 5D Imp + Occasional Red Sun < Batman. Be objective here, actually think about it. Superman is made to look like a b****, only when Batman is around.

Batman mentions the nanites on Amazo even though Cyborg is right there scanning Amazo. Oh well, Cyborgs useless.

Batman is more powerful than Superman. A better fighter than Wonder Woman. Has a stronger will than Hal Jordan. Better reflexes than the Flash. Knows more science than Firestorm. Maybe the writers should just make him a reality warper.

I don't know what problems y'all have with this.

Batman gets b%tches.

Deal with it.

@mitran said:

@wolverine08 said:

@mitran said:

@wolverine08 said:

@mitran said:

Yeah, no thanks.

No Batlove in the air for you brah?

Nope, not even a little.

(Batman's parents are deeeeeaaaaaad)

I mean... keep crying Bruce, I don't care.

No, not the parents!

Anything but the parents!

I know your kidding. I absolutely know that.

But as a Wonder Woman fan, the underlined is the sort of thought that makes me nauseous. I can imagine the BatFanboys saying such things.

Any women in the vicinity of Batman becomes one of his b%tches!

One can only resist his brooding charm for so long before he gets them.

Batman's got this eyes set on Wonder Woman!

Haha, not a fan of Batswag brah?

Yeah, I get what you mean. I don't really know much about Wonder Woman, and I'm fairly meh with Batman, but I can see how a fan of a strong female character like Diana can be somewhat hesitant with Batman dating her seeing how most of the women whom get involved in intimate relationships with him become his arm candy.

@wolverine08:

@deaditegonzo: That's what happens when the beacon of hope tries to mess with the personification of the night!

#BATMANANDHISB%TCHES