Batman and Detective comics discussion thread

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entropy_aegis

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Grant Morrison returns to Batman with a short story in Tec 1027 drawn by Burnham. Hell Yeah, I hope it serves as a prelude to his Arkham 2 OGN.

Bendis, Fraction, King, Rucka, Snyder, Tomasi, Tynion, Wolfman, Jurgens, Tamaki and De Connick are also contributing.

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TDK_1997

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entropy_aegis

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TDK_1997

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@tdk_1997 said:

@entropy_aegis: Is it a special issue in any way?

Yup, one of those 100 page specials.

Why though? There isn't an anniversary of anything and also it isn't a special number either.

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@tdk_1997: It is a special number, a thousand issues since Bruce's debut in Detective#27

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Deadshot is going to be killed off in the September issue of Suicide Squad.

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entropy_aegis

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There's a one shot called Joker War zone coming out.

Tynion, Ridley and Williamson are writing stories in these. One features Cass and Steph and delves more in to Clownhunter. Cassandra is wearing her Batgirl costume on the cover(not the interiors) which has led to speculation that Tynion is more than happy to encourage. I personally dont think she's going to be Batgirl, that decision is in the hands of WB.

There's a Luke Fox story presumably written by Ridley who was rumored to be working on the Luke Fox Batman book. I wonder what that means now?

Tynion and March are working on another story and Tynion says it will set up big things for 2021. It features Bane and Joker interacting.

Tynion was asked about Damian in Joker War and he's just flat out refusing to use him LMAO. Says Damian's story is being written in TT or something lol. Man the bias is so heavy here, dont care though, I'm sure most fans of Babs and Dick and Jason are sick of being forced in to Joker events and would be happy to trade places with Damian.

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TDK_1997

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@zariusii said:

@tdk_1997: It is a special number, a thousand issues since Bruce's debut in Detective#27

Yeah, I saw it on Newsarama after that and actually made the connection lol.

The Deadshot development might turn out interesting if handled correctly. So far, Taylor's Suicide Squad is pretty well written and interesting, so I am looking forward to see what will happen.

As for the interaction between Bane and Joker... These people need to stop overusing characters. I loved Joker until a few years ago, right before Endgame, because since then he has become the most overused character. He became the Spidey and Wolverine of DC Comics. Same is happening to Bane now. At least they should write him properly.

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@tdk_1997 said:
@zariusii said:

@tdk_1997: It is a special number, a thousand issues since Bruce's debut in Detective#27

Yeah, I saw it on Newsarama after that and actually made the connection lol.

The Deadshot development might turn out interesting if handled correctly. So far, Taylor's Suicide Squad is pretty well written and interesting, so I am looking forward to see what will happen.

As for the interaction between Bane and Joker... These people need to stop overusing characters. I loved Joker until a few years ago, right before Endgame, because since then he has become the most overused character. He became the Spidey and Wolverine of DC Comics. Same is happening to Bane now. At least they should write him properly.

So far Joker seems to be using other villains as pawns, he's hired Slade in Batman, resurrected Two-Face in Tec( filling the gap between Big Burn and Snyder's All-Star) and will resurrect Lincoln March in the next issue of Tec. I hope Bane isn't a Joker lackey/flunky but if Slade and Dent have been given that treatment then Bane could be next.

As for overuse, I have to agree. If DC isn't willing to revert to Bane's original characterization then they might as well stop using him. I also think that Bane is the big bad of Ellis's "The Batman's Grave", well him, Wrath, Prometheus and Two-Face are my main candidates but we'll see next month or the one after that or maybe even today since solicits are due.

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@tdk_1997 said:
@zariusii said:

@tdk_1997: It is a special number, a thousand issues since Bruce's debut in Detective#27

Yeah, I saw it on Newsarama after that and actually made the connection lol.

The Deadshot development might turn out interesting if handled correctly. So far, Taylor's Suicide Squad is pretty well written and interesting, so I am looking forward to see what will happen.

As for the interaction between Bane and Joker... These people need to stop overusing characters. I loved Joker until a few years ago, right before Endgame, because since then he has become the most overused character. He became the Spidey and Wolverine of DC Comics. Same is happening to Bane now. At least they should write him properly.

So far Joker seems to be using other villains as pawns, he's hired Slade in Batman, resurrected Two-Face in Tec( filling the gap between Big Burn and Snyder's All-Star) and will resurrect Lincoln March in the next issue of Tec. I hope Bane isn't a Joker lackey/flunky but if Slade and Dent have been given that treatment then Bane could be next.

As for overuse, I have to agree. If DC isn't willing to revert to Bane's original characterization then they might as well stop using him. I also think that Bane is the big bad of Ellis's "The Batman's Grave", well him, Wrath, Prometheus and Two-Face are my main candidates but we'll see next month or the one after that or maybe even today since solicits are due.

Yeah, it seems like it. However, it feels odd that Joker is using and actually quite well controlling Slade. For Lincoln, I can see it and for Harvey as well. But it seems odd that Slade and Bane would accept being Joker's pawns.

I haven't been following The Batman's Grave. I decided that I will pick it up and read when it's finished. Ellis' books are something that I like reading all at one go, same as Morrison's to be honest. The story becomes more coherent and I enjoy it a lot more rather than if I am reading it monthly or bi-weekly or whatever. Has it been any good, though?

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entropy_aegis

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@tdk_1997 said:
@entropy_aegis said:
@tdk_1997 said:
@zariusii said:

@tdk_1997: It is a special number, a thousand issues since Bruce's debut in Detective#27

Yeah, I saw it on Newsarama after that and actually made the connection lol.

The Deadshot development might turn out interesting if handled correctly. So far, Taylor's Suicide Squad is pretty well written and interesting, so I am looking forward to see what will happen.

As for the interaction between Bane and Joker... These people need to stop overusing characters. I loved Joker until a few years ago, right before Endgame, because since then he has become the most overused character. He became the Spidey and Wolverine of DC Comics. Same is happening to Bane now. At least they should write him properly.

So far Joker seems to be using other villains as pawns, he's hired Slade in Batman, resurrected Two-Face in Tec( filling the gap between Big Burn and Snyder's All-Star) and will resurrect Lincoln March in the next issue of Tec. I hope Bane isn't a Joker lackey/flunky but if Slade and Dent have been given that treatment then Bane could be next.

As for overuse, I have to agree. If DC isn't willing to revert to Bane's original characterization then they might as well stop using him. I also think that Bane is the big bad of Ellis's "The Batman's Grave", well him, Wrath, Prometheus and Two-Face are my main candidates but we'll see next month or the one after that or maybe even today since solicits are due.

Yeah, it seems like it. However, it feels odd that Joker is using and actually quite well controlling Slade. For Lincoln, I can see it and for Harvey as well. But it seems odd that Slade and Bane would accept being Joker's pawns.

I haven't been following The Batman's Grave. I decided that I will pick it up and read when it's finished. Ellis' books are something that I like reading all at one go, same as Morrison's to be honest. The story becomes more coherent and I enjoy it a lot more rather than if I am reading it monthly or bi-weekly or whatever. Has it been any good, though?

Funny how all these guys could easily destroy him, even Dent. I think Slade has been offered Dick's Grayson's inheritance from Bruce. I know it's dumb but Tynion clearly this is him being accurate to Slade's characterization due to the monetary angle and Dick's involvement. I guess one's mileage may vary but I don't see Slade trying to steal some orphans money by teaming up with a killer clown. Dent's mind has been tampered with and I believe he'll break free by the end of the arc. Lincoln I just don't care about so that leaves Bane.

It's very slow and admittedly I started mostly skimming through issues 3-5. I did however read 7 because of the comic book drought brought about by Covid-19 and I really enjoyed it. I think it's going to end up being a very good story once it's done so your approach is the correct one.

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entropy_aegis

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Dennis O'Neal has passed away, may he rest in peace.

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HAHA, here's the full interview:

Tynion

Looks like Bat/Cat is toast and he's being coy about Cass/Batgirl and he's once again brought up the March story in War Zone setting up big things(the one with Bane that I mentioned earlier).

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#4666  Edited By Black_Arrow

So sad Dennis O Neil is gone, I will miss him but I will always remember him for what he did.

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@tdk_1997 said:
@entropy_aegis said:
@tdk_1997 said:
@zariusii said:

@tdk_1997: It is a special number, a thousand issues since Bruce's debut in Detective#27

Yeah, I saw it on Newsarama after that and actually made the connection lol.

The Deadshot development might turn out interesting if handled correctly. So far, Taylor's Suicide Squad is pretty well written and interesting, so I am looking forward to see what will happen.

As for the interaction between Bane and Joker... These people need to stop overusing characters. I loved Joker until a few years ago, right before Endgame, because since then he has become the most overused character. He became the Spidey and Wolverine of DC Comics. Same is happening to Bane now. At least they should write him properly.

So far Joker seems to be using other villains as pawns, he's hired Slade in Batman, resurrected Two-Face in Tec( filling the gap between Big Burn and Snyder's All-Star) and will resurrect Lincoln March in the next issue of Tec. I hope Bane isn't a Joker lackey/flunky but if Slade and Dent have been given that treatment then Bane could be next.

As for overuse, I have to agree. If DC isn't willing to revert to Bane's original characterization then they might as well stop using him. I also think that Bane is the big bad of Ellis's "The Batman's Grave", well him, Wrath, Prometheus and Two-Face are my main candidates but we'll see next month or the one after that or maybe even today since solicits are due.

Yeah, it seems like it. However, it feels odd that Joker is using and actually quite well controlling Slade. For Lincoln, I can see it and for Harvey as well. But it seems odd that Slade and Bane would accept being Joker's pawns.

I haven't been following The Batman's Grave. I decided that I will pick it up and read when it's finished. Ellis' books are something that I like reading all at one go, same as Morrison's to be honest. The story becomes more coherent and I enjoy it a lot more rather than if I am reading it monthly or bi-weekly or whatever. Has it been any good, though?

Funny how all these guys could easily destroy him, even Dent. I think Slade has been offered Dick's Grayson's inheritance from Bruce. I know it's dumb but Tynion clearly this is him being accurate to Slade's characterization due to the monetary angle and Dick's involvement. I guess one's mileage may vary but I don't see Slade trying to steal some orphans money by teaming up with a killer clown. Dent's mind has been tampered with and I believe he'll break free by the end of the arc. Lincoln I just don't care about so that leaves Bane.

It's very slow and admittedly I started mostly skimming through issues 3-5. I did however read 7 because of the comic book drought brought about by Covid-19 and I really enjoyed it. I think it's going to end up being a very good story once it's done so your approach is the correct one.

Yeah, but even if you try to ignore the fact that they are all able to kill him, I think it is still funny that Joker would act like that. Even him going around and gathering muscle, all of whom are other enemies of Batman, seems a bit odd. It is not that he wouldn't really do it and that at the end he will still double cross him in some fashion, but the way he is doing it is odd. Oh well, I guess you an me have a different understanding of how these characters act and behave.

Harvey will surely break free. Tomasi isn't one of the writers that writes him like a total idiotic nut case. His Harvey is smart and knows what he is doing. So, sooner or later he will break free.

The pace of the book is what made me decide to not read it while it's still going out. The first two issues were definitely good but the pace with which the plot was progressing made me want to stop and wait.

RIP to a legendary writer, editor and person as a whole. RIP Mr. O'Neil.

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Solicits came out, the new stuff was already posted before they came out officially. Still I looked at Batman and the Outsiders and I was stunned. 16 issues in and that book is still stuck on Ra's al Ghul? wtf?

A summary of Snyder's latest podcast interview

  • Plans for Kamandi in Death Metal. May be cut out if there’s not enough room.
  • Snyder has a project after Death Metal that is “significantly less event-oriented in scope, but should get people excited”
  • “Valley of the Fallen Rings” in this remade earth.
  • Most heroes are imprisoned in New Apokolips. Guarded by a New God-like Batman.
  • Daniel Warren Johnson on the Monster Truck Batman story.
  • Becky Cloonan is on Aquaman’s story in the Guidebook.
  • The heroes enter the Dark Multiverse, gather the “disruptive energy” (wasn’t described that well) from past-Crisis events, come back to the current timeline to “disrupt” this version of events that let the BWL take over earth.
  • No time travel, but rather each Crisis is visited through the Dark Multiverse, so there’s a twist to each of them.
  • Death Metal will tie into the mainline JL, JLD, and JLO books come November/December.
  • Trinity Crisis is very important. In the vein of Batman: Lost and Hawkman: Found.
  • Black Racer/Red Death are in Speed Metal.
  • John Stewart and Guy Gardner are the leads for Multiverse’s End.
  • Only 8 planets are left in the multiverse by the start of M.E. Multiversity concepts are back in force.
  • October just has DEATH METAL #4.
  • Tie-ins for mainline books will be kept to a minimum to keep stories going, but there will be some.
  • “Big Consequences” for DM.
  • Death Metal was never supposed to end and immediately spring another big “event” forward. The “5G plan” was left as an “option” through the ending of DM. The book has things to say on the topic of continuity, but Snyder says it’s ultimately up to what the higher-ups want.
  • Snyder WAS at odds with editorial over Death Metal before. They were trying to force things into his vision for the book that neither him nor Capullo wanted.
  • There were points when Snyder was kept out of the loop entirely & Death Metal was treated as inconsequential.
  • Plans outside of Death Metal have “evolved a lot.” Snyder is now a bigger part of the conversation in regards to what comes after.
  • 5G was more of a “singular vision”, while the new plan has a much wider scope when it comes to the input of people working across the line.
  • Snyder is very much in favor of upcoming editorial initiatives. Praises the direction the line will be going in post-DM. He still supported the original plans, but was very skeptical of them at the same time.
  • Bruce’s bike is made from a Joker Dragon.
  • Jonah Hex is “raised from the dead” as Bruce’s lieutenant for his army of the dead.
  • Dr. Arkham - What if Bruce Wayne ran Arkham and was a crazy person! Harley’s Hyena eats him.
  • “Nuclear Wasteland” - a sector in the south that was destroyed when Captain Atom was blown up by the BWL. Harley gets her mutant Hyena from there.
  • The Dark Knights from the first METAL are somehow back! They’re being kept in a bunker of some kind.
  • The Grim Knight comes back.
  • There’s a Batman/Atom hybrid. The opening page of #2 is an homage to the opening of the first METAL with the lizard. This Atom-Batman is wearing a Lizard over his suit as a disguise. Gets run over by the Monster Truck Batman.
  • Sgt. Rock narrates the whole series. You catch up to him in #5 and find out why he’s narrating.
  • Batman is in a state of hopelessness at the start of the book. What happened to him is revealed later. Wonder Woman is the one to rally everyone together to give them the hope that things CAN be changed back to how they were.
  • “Cosmic forces uncovered through Doomsday Clock” are key components in fixing the world(s).
  • Snyder wants to incorporate elements of the first METAL, but still keep things fresh.
  • The Dark Multiverse was designed to give life to “What If” and “Elseworlds” stories again.
  • Death Metal will expand upon the concept with MORE characters getting Dark Multiverse counterparts, and alternate versions of Crisis events becoming essential to the story.
  • Hope/Optimism is the driving force for the book.
  • Jonathan Hickman is Snyder’s inspiration in creating a “long-form story” being told over multiple years.
  • Snyder had Penguin and Scarecrow stories he wanted to do with Batman.
  • Snyder pokes fun at the huge push for the BWL since the end of the first METAL. “I know, I know, you’re sick of me!” are his first lines to the heroes in #1.
  • Snyder’s Nightwing has been pitched (with a high likelihood of it happening). Black Label. A mystery story that focuses on how different he is as a detective compared to Bruce, and how he’s also a better one in certain ways. “The most empathetic character in the family”. Shows his days as Robin, but shows the “possibilities” of where he could go later in life. The villain “is not a classic one”. Members of the bat-family pop up a few times.
  • The next vol. Of American Vampire is around ten issues. Coming out this year. Jumps to the present day after this volume.
  • Zero Year was primarily written for Snyder’s kids.
  • The JSA appears in Death Metal, but doesn’t have a big role.
  • Death Metal DOES threads from Snyder’s JL run, but those same threads will also be explored in the JL ongoing.
  • Martian Manhunter appears in Death Metal, but he’ll spend the most time in the JL tie-in issues & the Multiverse’s End one-shot.
  • Snyder wants to do a Hulk book with Capullo in the future.
  • Captain America and Wolverine are the two other characters he’d want to write for Marvel.
  • Snyder has more plans for Duke Thomas (and potentially Harper Row)

Of course he has plans for Duke and Harper(Tynion has confirmed the latter). This is exactly what I hate the most about Tynion as a writer. His utter dependence on Snyder and being his yes man. Harper was finished and Duke was close to being finished, now we're gonna get obnoxious push number 1000.

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entropy_aegis

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@tdk_1997: Tynion writes for the moments, anything that makes a certain moment or action seem cool. It's why his Lady Shiva can go from getting owned by Jason Todd to owning Batman or future Tim taking on Batman and all Robins easily but getting whacked by Kate. Consistency and actual characterization is down his list of priorities.

Definitely, Tomasi is the best Two-Face writer they have short of Priest and Snyder. I expect Harvey to be done justice but I will always be sour that his arc was hijacked by Joker War.

I'm very curious about who Ellis will use as the main villain. We'll find out next issue most likely, I have given my guesses but I could be wrong. He's used Flamingo and Dr Death so far.

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ZariusII

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@entropy_aegis: Could I get a link to Snyder's podcast? Thanks in advance.

And it defo looks like Tynion is breaking up Bat and Cat in his run. Some fans are trying to spin his comments as meaning Three Jokers and King's Bat/Cat occur in the future after his run, but that might be just them not realising de nile is a river in Egypt.

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entropy_aegis

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@zariusii: Snyder

No problem.

Yup, it's clear that he doesn't want to work with that status quo and Snyder and King had somewhat similar comments about "3 Jokers". They could retroactively be made canon so there's that option but I wouldn't bet on it, especially for Bat/Cat.

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#4672  Edited By ZariusII

@entropy_aegis: Thanks a bundle.

I figured Tynion would want to avoid the mistake of Catwoman's previous writer being forced to tie in too much to the core story and not go places with Selina because of the happy ending King planned. If Batman is to 'improve' with readers, it has to have stakes. Tynion isn't a favourite either, but at least the uncertainty is there again. I like Bat/Cat as a pairing, but they'll be time for them again one day.

I'd say 'Three jokers' probably 'fits' what Tynion's doing with the villain than Batman/Catwoman does with Bruce and Selina, but if he feels it's a threat too, then all the power to him...maybe he just doesn't want you to think the Joker he's playing with is an alternative, as, like with Bat/Cat were it canon, it would confuse readers or give them an excuse to dismiss everything going on.

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#4673  Edited By Vishop_

May he rest in peace. O'Neil is really influential towards Batman and everything that we have read about Al'Ghuls.

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@zariusii said:

@entropy_aegis: Thanks a bundle.

I figured Tynion would want to avoid the mistake of Catwoman's previous writer being forced to tie in too much to the core story and not go places with Selina because of the happy ending King planned. If Batman is to 'improve' with readers, it has to have stakes. Tynion isn't a favourite either, but at least the uncertainty is there again. I like Bat/Cat as a pairing, but they'll be time for them again one day.

I'd say 'Three jokers' probably 'fits' what Tynion's doing with the villain than Batman/Catwoman does with Bruce and Selina, but if he feels it's a threat too, then all the power to him...maybe he just doesn't want you to think the Joker he's playing with is an alternative, as, like with Bat/Cat were it canon, it would confuse readers or give them an excuse to dismiss everything going on.

Dropped Catwoman after the first arc and never looked back myself, it was clearly treading water. Tynion has his own interests and Bat/Cat clearly isn't one of them. At this point I don't even care because King has soured me on that relationship.

Tynion has written a LARGE body of Batman work and the only thing that actually matters is Batman/TMNT. Everything else has been a waste of time. Any half way decent Batman story is a potential threat to his work, LMAO.

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TDK_1997

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@tdk_1997: Tynion writes for the moments, anything that makes a certain moment or action seem cool. It's why his Lady Shiva can go from getting owned by Jason Todd to owning Batman or future Tim taking on Batman and all Robins easily but getting whacked by Kate. Consistency and actual characterization is down his list of priorities.

Definitely, Tomasi is the best Two-Face writer they have short of Priest and Snyder. I expect Harvey to be done justice but I will always be sour that his arc was hijacked by Joker War.

I'm very curious about who Ellis will use as the main villain. We'll find out next issue most likely, I have given my guesses but I could be wrong. He's used Flamingo and Dr Death so far.

Same as King to be honest. One writes for those quiet comic book shots which become "memorable" - King, while the other just writes for those fanboy-ish action moments.

I haven't actually followed the current arc. I have just read the first part of it as I decided to do the same thing as The Batman's Grave, to wait until the arc is finished and then cotinue it. COVID-19 was coming in fast and it wasn't sure when we were getting the next issues, so this was the only way out lol.

I think he might go with someone peculiar or an essential Batman villain. I am going with the second to be honest.

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ZariusII

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@entropy_aegis: I read somewhere Clay Mann was disputing Tynion's comments about Bat/Cat over on Twitter.

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@zariusii said:

@entropy_aegis: I read somewhere Clay Mann was disputing Tynion's comments about Bat/Cat over on Twitter.

Tom King posted some art from the book with the caption "defining continuity". It's a clear jab but Tynion IS the Batman writer and he's got Snyder behind him. Wouldn't take anything King says that seriously, he's been reduced to properties like Adam Strange now. DC will give him obscure characters to write about in 12 issue books from now on.

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@tdk_1997 said:
@entropy_aegis said:

@tdk_1997: Tynion writes for the moments, anything that makes a certain moment or action seem cool. It's why his Lady Shiva can go from getting owned by Jason Todd to owning Batman or future Tim taking on Batman and all Robins easily but getting whacked by Kate. Consistency and actual characterization is down his list of priorities.

Definitely, Tomasi is the best Two-Face writer they have short of Priest and Snyder. I expect Harvey to be done justice but I will always be sour that his arc was hijacked by Joker War.

I'm very curious about who Ellis will use as the main villain. We'll find out next issue most likely, I have given my guesses but I could be wrong. He's used Flamingo and Dr Death so far.

Same as King to be honest. One writes for those quiet comic book shots which become "memorable" - King, while the other just writes for those fanboy-ish action moments.

I haven't actually followed the current arc. I have just read the first part of it as I decided to do the same thing as The Batman's Grave, to wait until the arc is finished and then cotinue it. COVID-19 was coming in fast and it wasn't sure when we were getting the next issues, so this was the only way out lol.

I think he might go with someone peculiar or an essential Batman villain. I am going with the second to be honest.

I honestly don't understand King. Tynion has the same flaws that that he keeps repeating while King always manages to surprise me with his s#it.

Yeah, makes sense.

Wrath?

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#4679  Edited By ZariusII

@entropy_aegis said:
@zariusii said:

@entropy_aegis: I read somewhere Clay Mann was disputing Tynion's comments about Bat/Cat over on Twitter.

Tom King posted some art from the book with the caption "defining continuity". It's a clear jab but Tynion IS the Batman writer and he's got Snyder behind him. Wouldn't take anything King says that seriously, he's been reduced to properties like Adam Strange now. DC will give him obscure characters to write about in 12 issue books from now on.

This kind of reminds me of that mess Spider-Girl creators DeFalco and Ron Frenz had with Marvel after the MC2 version of Peter Parker (father of Spider-Girl Mayday), was killed off in Spider-Verse by Dan Slott. They were so upset that they insisted it wasn't canon in interviews while Marvel were of the contrary opinion. Then they made the mistake of commissioning a story from them to tie into Spider-Verse. They made a request that they create a short story to make it explicit it was non-canon to 'their' version of Mayday. Marvel granted that request provided it was done subtly.

Of course it was a little too noticeable with their own fanbase and what happened next was a back and forth salt'n'piss'n'vinegar contest between fans of Spider-Verse and fans of Mayday about what was canon or not and it overshadowed/depleted all interest in Mayday's journey in Spider-Verse.

Marvel since have only used DeFalco and Frenz sparingly on Marvel projects afterwards...and hardly ever commission any new Spider-Girl stories specifically from them (their last one was in 2015 as part of Secret Wars)

Then in 2018, Marvel resurrected MC2 Peter anyway, and have done nothing new with him or Mayday since.

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#4681  Edited By entropy_aegis

More controversy coming

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

A conversation between the recently departed Teen Titans writer and a disgruntled Damian Wayne fanboy. If Glass is to be believed then Damian is set to lose the Robin mantle soon. Fireworks incoming if that happens. To play the devil's advocate I think the decision to remove Damian is going to come from WB higher ups not DC. They were the people who brought him back in the first place and Damian is still appearing in the Harley Quinn animated show as Robin, has made his debut in Young Justice and there's a good chance future Batman/DC gaming/animation projects will use him and Apokolips War was very successful. It's easy to see why WB likes Damian as with him they side step the question of homosexuality and unfortunately pedophilia that has come to be associated with that relationship. Damian also bucks the child soldier trend in favor of Batman instead of against him. Also strange of Glass to nonchalantly spoil something like that yet he seems to not be fully aware, like he's saying "read the book and then find out", as if it's some story driven stunt and then Damian will be back by the end of the arc. On the other hand the DCAMU universe has wrapped up, there's no sign of a new game, Tynion is commanding the Bat ship with Snyder backing him and they're known for Tim, Harper and Duke bias. Glass is also done with DC so his bluntness could be due to that.

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@entropy_aegis: Welp the man has many flaws and very few actual positives about his writing. He manages to surprise because as we've talked many times he just has the idea of the story but no character in particular, and the editorial team are the ones who choose for which character it would fit the most.

Hmmm, have't really thought about Wrath for a long time. It would fit the story quite well I think. However, I don't know if Ellis is a fan of him.

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Haven't really been following the Teen Titans book since the arc with Lobo because I thought they were milking it a bit there. However, I am still a big supporter of what was happening in the book as the writing was solid, the characters all had arcs which suited them well and the visuals were great. Can't see whyy this guy is complaining so much as Glass is one of the few writers who do justice for Damian and actually write him well and use him in a proper way. Even if it happens so and Damian is stripped off of the Robin mantle I don't think I would care as long as it is done properly and DC don't agree on a new Robin to be introduced as I am tired of changes like that.

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#4684  Edited By entropy_aegis

@tdk_1997: I don't mind his characterization myself because he clearly follows the "Morrison model" but you know what sensitive fans are like, especially the types you'd find on Twitter and Tumblr. The only thing they care about are their ships, happiness of fictional characters and whatever social cause they can complain about. You should see Jason fans whining about victim blaming,yeesh. The Robin and Batgirl fans in general are just about the worst imo. Robin fans (all of them) are the only group that will throw a hissy fit if one of the characters gets a dye job or a shaved head cause it makes them "less hot". The obsession with the same faced, blue eyed Bruce Wayne clones "sexiness" is truly astonishing. DC is to blame for that too. They have perpetuated this idea that only blue eyed dark haired androgynous people are truly sexy in their universe. All 3 members of the Trinity are the literal personification of that followed by various clones with in their own families and more. Marvel while not perfect is much better in that regard. Can you imagine Wolverine or Luke Cage being the studs that they are in the DC universe? I don't think so. Sorry for getting a bit off topic but it's one of the reasons why I'm personally sick of Bat family and legacy characters in general.

As for Glass, he dropped the ball with his plots and that's my greatest pet peeve. The Crush/Lobo dynamic amounted to nothing, his big villain Elias amounted to nothing, Heretic/Other had 18 months of build up and we got squat in the end, Jason/Damian was pointless and so on. The Deathstroke crossover is the only highlight and Priest clearly deserves credit for that.

Well I do think they'd plan on a new Robin if the present one loses the mantle. That's kinda how it goes right?

Yup, Tom King comes up with the idea first and then forces it on to other characters. Heroes in Crisis proves it.

I would love to see an Ellis written Bane but that's my personal bias speaking. I think it's Wrath. The solicits talk about Batman's shadow who is waging a war on the justice system. Previous issues name dropped the "Scorn army" (Scorn is Wrath's sidekick) and there's a triple claw symbol that vaguely resembles a "W" in the first issue and on the cover of 10 and an "S" insignia on a dagger in that cover. Let's hope Ellis does him justice because I did not care about the Iron Man lite from the New 52 who was turned in to a jobber by James Tynion.

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@entropy_aegis: Unfotunately I've encountered them. Twitter can sometimes be a terrifying place. People go there to either praise something or truly hate while trying to destroy everything good about it that there ever was. Especially if you go down to the comic book section. I haven't seen someone complain about a particular Bat character but I have seen all of the hate that has went down Tom King's path after he departed as a Bat writer. I have seen the same brutal hate comments about the writing of Donny Cates, as well. In my books the guy is doing a tremendous job on all of the books that he is at. So, I completely understand your fatigue with Bat characters and the ways fans react.

Now, that we're at it, what's your Twitter account, if you have one ofc lol?

I was expecting everything to be a big disappointment at the end and a total letdown. After seeing who the traitor was, how he was writing the Lobo arc, I decided to call it quits for a while until it gets my attention again, or at least until the trades come out. Glass sure as hell had great ideas but the exposition and the final products were lackluster.

Same here. If Ellis manages to get his s**t together and decide on doing a long arc or at least a mini-series with Bane, I think he will bring Bane back to his former glory. But we can only dream for now.

As for Wrath, it would be nice seeing Ellis' version. The concept of the character is cool but unfortunately I haven't read any of his classic appearances. All I've seen him in is in the 'Tec story from the New 52, so I don't really have an opinion on him.

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I don't know if it was announced earlier and I am late to the party, but Ellis will be writing the origin story of the T-Rex Batman. Newsarama have posted the story of how Snyder got Ellis to jump on board.

B-Rex Origin

Since Ellis was excited about the invitation I can guess that the story would be kick-ass.

No Caption Provided

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@tdk_1997 said:

@entropy_aegis: Unfotunately I've encountered them. Twitter can sometimes be a terrifying place. People go there to either praise something or truly hate while trying to destroy everything good about it that there ever was. Especially if you go down to the comic book section. I haven't seen someone complain about a particular Bat character but I have seen all of the hate that has went down Tom King's path after he departed as a Bat writer. I have seen the same brutal hate comments about the writing of Donny Cates, as well. In my books the guy is doing a tremendous job on all of the books that he is at. So, I completely understand your fatigue with Bat characters and the ways fans react.

Now, that we're at it, what's your Twitter account, if you have one ofc lol?

I was expecting everything to be a big disappointment at the end and a total letdown. After seeing who the traitor was, how he was writing the Lobo arc, I decided to call it quits for a while until it gets my attention again, or at least until the trades come out. Glass sure as hell had great ideas but the exposition and the final products were lackluster.

Same here. If Ellis manages to get his s**t together and decide on doing a long arc or at least a mini-series with Bane, I think he will bring Bane back to his former glory. But we can only dream for now.

As for Wrath, it would be nice seeing Ellis' version. The concept of the character is cool but unfortunately I haven't read any of his classic appearances. All I've seen him in is in the 'Tec story from the New 52, so I don't really have an opinion on him.

I had one 2-3 years ago but I've forgotten about it, don't even care and I'm happy about it. Imagine wasting time talking to toxic nerds who cannot separate fiction from reality, shudders.

Pretty much nailed the Glass run right there.

It's pretty much a pipe dream I know (cries).

No Caption Provided

There are only 5 comics with Wrath and an episode from "The Batman" cartoon from before the New 52. Clearly a lot of him went in to Prometheus, some arguably inspired Bane (utilizing Batman's own tactics, discovering his ID). King certainly used the same framing device in Batman 18 for Bane that was used for Wrath by Barr. Morrison and Tomasi arguably used it for Talia and Arkham Knight. He's basically the bad boy version of Batman with his long hair, smoking habits, etc as you can see in the picture I uploaded. The original one only appeared in one comic and later his successor took up his mantle. I ignore the New 52 version who is a hybrid of the previous versions. He's awful and made worse by Tynion. I know Batman's Grave was planned a long time ago and is still ongoing but damn is Wrath's story all the more poignant with all the recent attention to America's justice system and the state of the police. Batman's Grave could really be something special now.

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#4688  Edited By TDK_1997

@entropy_aegis: Yeah, I only use Twitter, so I can stay updated on news about the comic book world, sneaker releases and news here and there. Getting into a conversation with someone is just a disaster waiting to happen, never done that and never will. I have more concerns and things in my life to think about.

I know the basic and overall concept of the character as I've skimmed through his bio here on the website when the N52 arc came out, but I still haven't bothered to go back and read his original appearances. Wrath really seems like the character that had a lot of potential but the publisher just didn't know how to utilize that potential. However, if Ellis has really used him as the antagonist of Batman's Grave it would really be a comic book for the ages. As you said, the current time we live in and the state of the justice system in America would make this the perfect book to go and check out.

Is Mike De Carlo the artist that created Wrath along with Barr?

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@tdk_1997 said:

@entropy_aegis: Yeah, I only use Twitter, so I can stay updated on news about the comic book world, sneaker releases and news here and there. Getting into a conversation with someone is just a disaster waiting to happen, never done that and never will. I have more concerns and things in my life to think about.

I know the basic and overall concept of the character as I've skimmed through his bio here on the website when the N52 arc came out, but I still haven't bothered to go back and read his original appearances. Wrath really seems like the character that had a lot of potential but the publisher just didn't know how to utilize that potential. However, if Ellis has really used him as the antagonist of Batman's Grave it would really be a comic book for the ages. As you said, the current time we live in and the state of the justice system in America would make this the perfect book to go and check out.

Is Mike De Carlo the artist that created Wrath along with Barr?

Wise for sure.

His costume really is his undoing imo because it's too silly and I hold that same opinion about Bane (or at least about his torso, the mask and lower region gear are fine). This is why I'm really curious to see what Ellis and Hitch do with him visually (assuming he's the villain because it's speculation at this point).

Absolutely true, Wrath can be used to say a lot about the police and the timing couldn't be more appropriate. Beats an internet troll who is mad at society cause reasons (ahem Punchline).

Yup, it was De Carlo.

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@tdk_1997 said:

I don't know if it was announced earlier and I am late to the party, but Ellis will be writing the origin story of the T-Rex Batman. Newsarama have posted the story of how Snyder got Ellis to jump on board.

B-Rex Origin

Since Ellis was excited about the invitation I can guess that the story would be kick-ass.

No Caption Provided

That's seem something like I don't wanna miss. Ellis's crossover with Batman/Planetary and JL/Planetary was pretty good. Although I am pretty sure that he wrote other Batman stories but still.

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Disturbing news ahead, Ellis has been accused of grooming/manipulating young women throughout his career. These allegations surfaced when Cameron Stewart's name came in to the spotlight for attempting to exploit teen girls. Ellis hasn't been accused of anything physical but more for being lewd and pervy. If something more damning comes to light then I can see DC terminating its relationship with the man altogether.

In other more amusing news DCEU fans are mad because they've realized that the dead Robin in BvS was Dick Grayson and Snyder planned on introducing Carrie Kelly. These are the same people who supported that old fart Batfleck because they thought it meant having Bat family and Nightwing and Red Hood, LMAO.

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@entropy_aegis: with the way things are going, I really don’t see Ellis being allowed to finish Batman’s Grave, his short Batman stories for Detective 1027 and DM: DM Guidebook or wtv planned project he would’ve done for the Digital “Ultimate” style initiative they were planning.

And I don’t really want them to let him finish either.

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@entropy_aegis: Yeah, it really does seem like Wrath's costume is the major problem behind his failure. As much as the concept of him is more mature and fits the grim and noir setting of Gotham, his costume is too campy.

I saw the allegations against Stewart but from what I understand people were blaming Ellis only because a major part of the artists he's worked with are creeps and people that have been accused of bad behavior or criminal acts. However, I cannot really blame the public, most people that have worked with Ellis and that are part of the British wave are actually a bit of creeps. At the same time though, nowadays especially, people are exaggerating with sexism, assaults, groping and etc.

I don;t want anyone to get me wrong on this but groping has always been there, has been a problem and something which has been overlooked but no one cared, but since the Harvey Weinstein case everyone started caring. It just seems that because it is "trendy" in a bad way, everyone started talking about it, and almost every man is a sexual predator.

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LOL at the Dick Grayson announcement actually. I knew Snyder had terrible plans up ahead for the DC movie universe, but now that some things are being revealed it just seems like a joke.

People already started making dick jokes on Twitter and Instagram after the announcement.

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@entropy_aegis: with the way things are going, I really don’t see Ellis being allowed to finish Batman’s Grave, his short Batman stories for Detective 1027 and DM: DM Guidebook or wtv planned project he would’ve done for the Digital “Ultimate” style initiative they were planning.

And I don’t really want them to let him finish either.

Batman's Grave is probably already finished and Ellis has likely already been paid for it. It sounds selfish on my part I know but it makes no difference now if they choose to not release it . However, if more serious allegations crop up then DC should sever ties with him altogether. His role in the digital line is as good as finished for sure though and the short stories are easily removable.

@tdk_1997 said:

@entropy_aegis: Yeah, it really does seem like Wrath's costume is the major problem behind his failure. As much as the concept of him is more mature and fits the grim and noir setting of Gotham, his costume is too campy.

I saw the allegations against Stewart but from what I understand people were blaming Ellis only because a major part of the artists he's worked with are creeps and people that have been accused of bad behavior or criminal acts. However, I cannot really blame the public, most people that have worked with Ellis and that are part of the British wave are actually a bit of creeps. At the same time though, nowadays especially, people are exaggerating with sexism, assaults, groping and etc.

I don;t want anyone to get me wrong on this but groping has always been there, has been a problem and something which has been overlooked but no one cared, but since the Harvey Weinstein case everyone started caring. It just seems that because it is "trendy" in a bad way, everyone started talking about it, and almost every man is a sexual predator.

A later writer tried to salvage it by revealing that the Wrath was just copying Batman's theatrics but without a proper substitute costume the character won't be able to find mileage.

Some people have posted creepy texts that are being attributed to Ellis. It's all about the power relationships and demographics. A lot of these guys are older and single, in any environment with such people in positions of power over young people especially women the company has to be on its toes 24/7.

The Liberal Left is confused, personal choice is at the top of their agenda and values be damned for that. I identify left myself but if sexual relationships are going to be treated as a purely "personal" and transaction based affairs then these things won't stop. The irony here is that the overwhelming majority of this industry falls to the left. They're too obsessed with comics gaters and right wingers to wipe their own asses first. So they've given open space to predators because their "real" enemy is someone who gave bad reviews to comics written by industry outsiders who were hired for only being woke and ended up turning that guy in to a movement.

@tdk_1997 said:

LOL at the Dick Grayson announcement actually. I knew Snyder had terrible plans up ahead for the DC movie universe, but now that some things are being revealed it just seems like a joke.

People already started making dick jokes on Twitter and Instagram after the announcement.

It's really funny because a lot of Batfleck support came from "Bat family" fans who just didn't care about Batfleck's awfulness because an old and established Batman meant "family". They got their Cassandra Cain and Dick Grayson in the DCEU LMAO. So much for that Under The Red Hood adaptation that these guys were so desperate for.

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@entropy_aegis: The New 52 costume wasn't all too bad. At least imo.

I haven't seen the accusations against Ellis so far. All I have seen are the two girls that are going at it with Cameron Stewart who has been connected with Ellis. However, sexual misconduct or 'grooming', what they are being accused of, is something that the companies won't take well. Stewart won't see any line of work from now in the major companies, while Ellis might be given the benefit of the doubt. However, I think that DC might cut ties with him sooner than later. I am especially interested what will happen to Castlevania now that he is being accused of this as Netflix aren't taking such accusations lightly.

The political stand point of the publishers is very mixed and confused most of the times. The big name publishers want to be politically active and up to date, to defend people of color, to protect women and support their feministic views, to blame those that do wrong in society. However, at the same time they are afraid to make a stand and actually say something which is direct and abrupt to those that have done wrong. Stewart and Ellis will probably be blamed and will be sacked, but the open field for other people like them will still be available. As you said, that isn't their major problem and they aren't really concentrating on how to fix that, but rather just satisfy the critics and the public with the newly published comic books.

As much as we may support Ellis, you and I, as a writer and as a contributor to the comic book industry, if everything that has been leaked is true, he should definitely accept his punishment and the consequences.

The DCEU planner and editors have done everything and I literally mean everything to take the most massive s*** on the Bat family and everything connected to the characters. Starting from their portrayal to the general vision and direction of the characters. It is just sad that there were even any fans that were supporting the whole Batfleck choice and etc.

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@tdk_1997 said:

@entropy_aegis: The New 52 costume wasn't all too bad. At least imo.

I haven't seen the accusations against Ellis so far. All I have seen are the two girls that are going at it with Cameron Stewart who has been connected with Ellis. However, sexual misconduct or 'grooming', what they are being accused of, is something that the companies won't take well. Stewart won't see any line of work from now in the major companies, while Ellis might be given the benefit of the doubt. However, I think that DC might cut ties with him sooner than later. I am especially interested what will happen to Castlevania now that he is being accused of this as Netflix aren't taking such accusations lightly.

The political stand point of the publishers is very mixed and confused most of the times. The big name publishers want to be politically active and up to date, to defend people of color, to protect women and support their feministic views, to blame those that do wrong in society. However, at the same time they are afraid to make a stand and actually say something which is direct and abrupt to those that have done wrong. Stewart and Ellis will probably be blamed and will be sacked, but the open field for other people like them will still be available. As you said, that isn't their major problem and they aren't really concentrating on how to fix that, but rather just satisfy the critics and the public with the newly published comic books.

As much as we may support Ellis, you and I, as a writer and as a contributor to the comic book industry, if everything that has been leaked is true, he should definitely accept his punishment and the consequences.

The DCEU planner and editors have done everything and I literally mean everything to take the most massive s*** on the Bat family and everything connected to the characters. Starting from their portrayal to the general vision and direction of the characters. It is just sad that there were even any fans that were supporting the whole Batfleck choice and etc.

Great for a potential Iron Man villain but betrays the Wrath on a conceptual and thematic level.

The person who started the allegations against Ellis has deleted her posts but others have chimed in to keep the conversation going. Stewart's work is already getting cancelled if Bleeding Cool is to be trusted.

Yeah screw these people if they've been exploiting vulnerable women and men even (it happens).

LOL, Jason, Dick and family fans in general are upset while Snyder cultists are literally telling them to suck it up and let Snyder create his "art".

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#4698  Edited By entropy_aegis

Bleeding Cool reported this from James Tynion's Newsletter or something

We announced Joker War Zone last week, and I was thrilled they also released the variant cover which features Cassandra Cain donning a very familiar costume… There's ANOTHER classic character in the JWZ issue who people have been clamoring to appear in Joker War, who has a story in the book, but I'm pretty sure I'm not allowed to say who they are, yet… But I am very excited to bring this character into the larger Joker War experience.

Wonder who the hell this character is? Luke and Stephanie have already been confirmed and he's being coy about Cass.

In addition to a big story featuring Bane, drawn by my other Gotham partner in crime, Guillem March… I'm writing a story for James Stokoe about Clownhunter, a mainline continuity story that digs deeper into who this strange new Gotham Vigilante is. It also introduces four of the most dangerous clowns working under Joker, and they're named Eenie, Meanie, Miney, and Moe. In the script, I described what we were trying to do with Clownhunter as "Kaneda's Gang from Akira meets Casey Jones meets Deadpool" and James just knocked it out of the park. I've got Orc Stain and Godzilla: The Hundred Year War in prime locations on my shelf, and I've deeply loved his work for years. The fact that I get to work with him is a dream come true. James is up for about a million Eisners this year, and I hope he wins all of them! And then you can nominate him again next year for his freaking awesome Clownhunter comics.

This is what he had to say on Twitter about the story with March

In that JOKER WAR ZONE issue, I've got a key storywithGuillemMarchthat sets up BIG things for 2021, and I also got to check an item off my bucket list and write a comic for the legendary HeGotGronch , starring CLOWNHUNTER.

Big Bane arc incoming, dammit, this guy is going to make me read his run, lol.

What I am MOST excited about, is each of these stories leads to MORE stories. These are not going to be one and done flash in the pan characters. We have a rough sketch of a multi-year plan in play. We'll only get there with your support and help, but I've gotten rumblings on the sales of these upcoming Batman issues, and they've been putting a wide grin on my face. Heck, now the whole DC line is getting in on the fun of the character design covers we spearheaded with. I just outlined an oversized issue I'll be co-writing at the end of the year spinning out of the Batman run, and we've just got more fun coming your way.

Happy for his success and prosperity but I'm not really in to a multi year run.

In interviews, I keep talking about Punchline and Clownhunter as the first two children of a new generation of Gotham City stories. Joker War sets the stage for this new era in a big, big way. We're trying to give you an experience every time you pick up the mainline Batman comic book that you can't get in any other medium. I wrote up a description of a poster for Gotham 2021 that I desperately hope we make, that aside from Batman, Harley, and a classic Bat-Villain, will feature all brand new characters, embodying the Gotham we're hoping to build for you… But we're not waiting until 2021 to start having fun with the new toys.

Next month, they'll solicit Batman #100, and THEN I can start talking about Ghost-Maker.

Underbroker, Clownhunter, Designer, Punchline, Mr Teeth, Gunsmith, those 4 Joker goons mentioned above and now Ghost Maker? this run will become dated in a few years. Imagine being a new reader picking up the trades and being bombarded with characters that you constantly have to go to wiki for. Gunsmith and Mr Teeth are completely blank and already forgotten so even a wiki search wont matter.

About Damian on Twitter

Sorry! Damian's role in Gotham is being shaped by the events of Teen Titans, but we've got a larger plan about when he'll come back in, strong to the Bat-Books. We've got a big, big plan.

On one hand it's good that there are "big plans strong to the Bat books" but on the other hand the Snyder guys have a clear aversion to the character. It's funny because Snyder and Tynion write Damian much better than they ever wrote Tim, Duke, Harper, Steph, Cass etc.

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#4699  Edited By entropy_aegis

I was kinda hoping that Bane would be rested but now that he's set to return in a "BIG" way I wonder what plans they have for him? Tynion wrote Bane in his Talon run and Batman/TMNT 2, though in the latter book Tynion ended up sharing writing duties with another author. I'm going to ignore the (poor) use of Bane in the Eternal books that Tynion was also behind by giving Tynion the benefit of the doubt because other writers were also involved.

So Tynion's Bane in Talon was very well written, he was menacing in ways that only Denny O'Neil's Bane from Azrael and the Knightfall novelization come close to comparing which is a very high compliment to Tynion. I rate those even above Chuck Dixon's Bane overall. Tynion was also responsible for turning Bane in to a militaristic warlord who owns an entire country which was a sharp contrast to the crime lord turned soldier of fortune that the Pre-Flashpoint Bane had become. Tynion also expanded the uses of Venom, one character called Wolf-Spider used it for sprinting and climbing. He was better at it than even a fully enhanced Talon and he even used that arc to salvage the terrible Bane story by Finch/Jenkins that preceded it. The second use of Bane was in the crossover which is non canon but that crossover acknowledged the events of Bane of the Demon/Legacy. Tynion has also acknowledged that arc in canon with his Batman and Robin 23.3 one shot that came as part of villains month. While over written this time around Bane was still incredibly dangerous enough to make Ra's and Shredder uncomfortable. He easily drew large numbers of followers away from them with his stature, brutality and speeches. Tynion has also shown a willingness to give Bane Venom enhanced soldiers.

Since it's likely that Tynion will do a crossover I'm also going to name drop Tomasi. He wrote Bane immediately after Tynion in Batman 23.3, Arkham War and Batman vs Bane one shot. His Bane became Batman, made William Cobb his own Robin and won the Arkham War. Tomasi also introduced the Tom Hardy costume and posture. His Bane was even sociable and sort of a hero/protector in a twisted way. Tomasi also wrote him in the Arkham Knight tie inn comics. He did his best with a the f#cked up status quo he inherited from Rocksteady.

So I'm not all that concerned about Bane with Tynion and Tomasi at the helm because they've both done a good job but I don't want another "conquer Gotham" arc and if I see another broken back then I'm going to jump off a cliff. I hope they do something different for once, return his history with the al Ghul's, Edmund Dorrance and Scandal Savage. Give him relationships with characters not Batman. Jason, Damian and Babs are ideal candidates, just pick one of them. Make him Batman's Doctor Doom as Santa Prisca's shadowy ruler and the guy who controls all crime throughout Caribbean up till Central America and is virtually untouchable. A costume update would also be welcomed. Anything but a Knightfall rehash.

PS: Adventures Continue and the current Batman are making a very good case for why Slade should not be a Batman villain. He's been turned in to a complete mustache twirling jobber.

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TDK_1997

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@entropy_aegis: Very true to be honest. However, they can maybe just save the color palette and the general design but move it into something more tactical rather than looking like an Iron Man wannabe.

Yeah, from what I am seeing on Twitter everyone has turned against Stewart. Nothing so far against Ellis from other writers, artists and just people who are working in the industry, though.

Yesterday I read a whole post about another allegation but this one was against an ex-editor at Dark Horse Comics.

I am very happy to hear that Tynion has his life going for him and is planning a lot of things for the future of his career, and that DC trust him and like his work. However, I don't really want him to stick on the title for a few years. He feels like a good choice as a fill-in and then they should draw someone else on board, but oh well.

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