Batman and Detective comics discussion thread

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#4351 Posted by entropy_aegis (20925 posts) - - Show Bio

@tdk_1997 said:

King’s Batman managed to hit a new low. I’m impressed. I don’t think any other writer has been hyping up his story as much as King, changing it constantly as King, in order to deliver the most anti-climatic twists and developments. Glad that DC decided to sack him prematurely because it really would have been a big pain in the ass to see him go for another 20 issues.

I honestly hope that Batman and Catwoman fails miserably as well, ao DC can truly say “Hey, man, listen! Batman is off limits for you from now on”.

Justice League, however, was a bit better than Batman this week. Slightly disappointed by this issue since last arc was just incredibly interesting and well drawn. Of course this is just the first part of the new storyline but it feels like a step back. However, the interiors continue to be beautiful.

Oh look, Ra's al Ghul's personal guard Death in the desert that we've never heard of and never will after this lol and ofcourse just like Tynions League of Shadows there's nothing more to them other than being ordinary ninjas but the creators make it sound like they created formidable villains.

The JL issue was written by Tynion, his issues have been subpar which is par the course.

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#4352 Posted by TDK_1997 (18811 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: Yeah, with King and Tynion you always learn about some teams and secrets that you’ve literally never even heard of. Also, Thomas Wayne implying that Bruce is nowhere as good as him and that is why he managed to hear the ninjas coming was laughable.

Well, to be honest so far the issues of Tynion have been the best imo, apart from Sixth Dimension arc which was simply beautiful.

What I don’t like about the book is the way Tynion and Snyder have been writing J’onn. He is taking a central stage but just as in the animated series he’s just too boring and passive. Whenever I am reading his inner monologue or the narrator who is explaining something that has to do with J’onn I am literally falling asleep.

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#4353 Posted by TDK_1997 (18811 posts) - - Show Bio

Now, apparently Batman #74 and #75 were pushed back a week each, so King might be doing further changes to his story.

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#4354 Posted by entropy_aegis (20925 posts) - - Show Bio

So Batman Damned was a damned waste of time.

I loved the homage to Batman kicking the Spectre in today's Tec lol.

I'd also like to add that a little something caught my eye. An artist named Karl Mostert has been posting Deathstroke designs on Twitter. Its for some project but the intriguing aspect of the designs are the Batman influences. All of them have Slade wearing a belt with the Bat symbol on it. In one Slade is rocking the Bat cape and he has Batman's gauntlets in all of them as well. Now this guy doesn't seem to be a regular artist but he did tag a DC bigwig named Ben Abernathy and said that he's allowed to show the designs now. I'm defintely curious.

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#4355 Edited by Black_Arrow (10291 posts) - - Show Bio

While a bit sloppy in some places, I really liked the art in today's issue of Tec. It had a nineties vibe but in the good sense, I thought It look really cool.

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#4356 Edited by ZariusII (6023 posts) - - Show Bio

Ha, well that's certainly a creative way of having Harley listen to Lex's offer while keeping her character free of consequences...

she reads the last page of the latest issue of her book to her sick mother The whole thing is just a story to her!

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#4357 Posted by ZariusII (6023 posts) - - Show Bio


Consider yourself cock-blocked James! Go on, Selina

And man, two months before we see Selina accept or reject what Lex is offering? I think she'll turn it down, since I get the feeling Lois will be accepting the offer (as part of Bendis attempting to prove the Super-Family can overcome all the drama) and they'll need at least one major love interest to be more resistant to it

But in all honesty, this was a mess this read like Jones skipped a couple of issues or two in her story and is rushing towards a conclusion so they can tie things into King's run...I hate to think what the book will look like when Batman/Catwoman starts...if the book even exists at all by that point

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#4358 Posted by entropy_aegis (20925 posts) - - Show Bio

Depite being a Bat heavy week I still found it quite dull.

I dont care about King at all now and am just ready for him to move on now. I dont care enough to even hate it.

Tec was obviously filler

Event Leviathan should be called Talking Event

The only reason I'm even posting is because apparantely its not just King who is writing Knightfall 2. Murphy has posted art for a new Azbat armor on Twitter. 2019, the new 1993.

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#4359 Edited by entropy_aegis (20925 posts) - - Show Bio

And DC has just lost it, there's a new Joker series under the Black Label format coming out in October.

Not only is the overexposure itself obnoxious but the unoriginal nature of these last few announcements is infuriating.

As if we need 2 books about how Harley met Joker running concurrently. As if we need another civilian foolishly entering the Joker's life and getting more than he bargained for. It really goes to show the importance of editorial sanction because left to their own devices our industry's top writers are only capable of regurgitating the same classic stories that they loved when they were fans. The only difference is added violence, profanity and nudity.

So far Snyder is the only one who seems to be making good use of the Black Label format. Everyone else is just producing edgy copies of superior work.

Joker is also getting a Year of the Villain one shot tie inn in October lol.

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#4360 Posted by jake_fury (313 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: Read issue 1 of Event Leviathan and nothing happened. (Just like the so called special issue) just couldn’t bring myself to buy issue 2.

Still need to read the Tec issues with Spectre.

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#4361 Posted by entropy_aegis (20925 posts) - - Show Bio

And DC is releasing one shot Dark Multiverse versions of classic stories similar to Marvel's What Ifs.

First up we have Knightfall and Death of Superman.

Knightfall is co-written by Snyder(lol) and Higgins. It will feature JPV vs Son of Bane.

We'll get Judas Contract, Blackest Night etc in the following months.

Cover art here

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#4362 Posted by entropy_aegis (20925 posts) - - Show Bio

Warren Ellis and Bryan Hitch are teaming up for a 12 issue Batman limited series starting October. Its called "The Batman's Grave". Excited for this.

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#4363 Edited by OrangeBat (983 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: I'm really sick of DC trying to cash off their old hits. Although I'm somewhat surprised that Snyder has seemingly managed to write a Batman story without The Joker in it.

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#4364 Posted by ZariusII (6023 posts) - - Show Bio

Just read Batman#75, and what a disappointment...not much of Bruce in the whole story, and when he does appear, he gets his butt kicked by two random thugs and needs saving by Selina,who randomly shows up (where does this fit into her ongoing?), and of course, this being King, she's back to "Hi Bat" and insisting they met on the street. The whole premise is a rip off of The Dark Knight Rises with the criminals running Gotham too

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#4365 Edited by entropy_aegis (20925 posts) - - Show Bio

What I feared most about this storyline was that it seemed to me that Bane would be in it so little. The first issue only strengthened my fears as Bane was only in it for one page.

Most of it was devoted to Thomas whom I'm sick of already and Gotham Girl. Future issues seem to tilt in favor of Batcat.

While I get Batcat but trying to salvage Thomas and GG at this point when its Bane's turn to shine just pisses me off. Thomas should've died in that f*cking pit and Gotham Girl should have been confined to limbo.

Further more they're just outsiders in what is a deeply personal story of love and enmity between street level characters. A mad daddy from another universe and a crazy Supergirl wannabe are so out of place here that its not even funny. Tom King's blantant refusal to address various questions surrounding them is equally irksome. To this day we dont know how Thomas jumped universes and encountered Bane, we dont know why he's playing along and we've yet to cover Gotham Girl's , heel turn, motivation, source of powers and alliance with Bane.

Beyond that King jumps over important details as usual. Last we saw Thomas and Bruce they were in a desert. Now Bruce is wandering in a snowy mountain where he just bumps in to Catwoman while Thomas is in Gotham playing dress up.

Watching the villains role playing was fun at the least.

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#4366 Edited by entropy_aegis (20925 posts) - - Show Bio

Well I just saw the Hush animated film and crap it was a vast improvement over the source material. I know many purists will disagree because the film is set in the very mixed animated continuity and because they think these stories are holy grails that should remain intact word to word but I'm in obvious disagreement. I dont think there's any story about Batman after the 90's that is truly genre defining or pushes story telling in new and interesting ways save maybe some portions of Morrison's run and Busiek's Creature of the Night which in turn was inspired by Busiek's Superman story in the first place. So stories like Court of Owls or Hush are not some untouchable masterpieces. Infact they're just run of the mill pop corn flick stories with massive flaws hidden behind fan service, art and "accessibility" (they were someone's first Batman comic and therefore must be special).

The biggest improvement is that Riddler is Hush...hahaha. Thomas Elliot was really just a bum all along.This was a terrific showing for the Riddler and he was actually pretty involved as Hush. Joker excluded the other villains got involved by their own free will, they were not stupid pawns. Ofcourse he was killed as has been the tradition of lead villains in this universe, especially if they know Batman's secret. Crime really does not pay in this universe. Still I'm grateful that Riddler for once got his time to shine.

Thomas Elliot has been a bad character since his inception and its going to amuse me to see people on internet throwing a tantrum about his honor being defiled. The movie reducing him to Riddler's unwitting pawn was ironically sweet in my opinion. Bad characters should be rewarded with bad treatment. Hopefully this puts the lid on him and characters like him. Even Heart of Hush can be reinterpreted with someone like Hugo Strange and Mr Freeze as the main villains.

It keeps the Bat/Cat stuff intact and arguably enhances it, so the biggest factor for its popularity and status is also intact.

Characters were largely not wasted, I hate how they substituted Bane for Croc even if they did give an explanation but there wasn't a deluge of unnecessary cameos like in the comic. Shiva was there for example but not to get chaired in the back.

Tim Drake fans moaning about Damian should take comfort in the fact that Damian only had a minute of screen time and it was a video conversation with Bruce. So Damian didn't steal Tim's role, not like Tim had much of it to even begin with. Ofcourse in that minute Damian showed more personality than Tim ever did in almost 2 seasons of Young Justice lol.

The third act obviously had big Bond film type set which is common in these films and have provided the biggest source of departure from the source material time and again but its understandable as they're supposed to be pop corn action flicks.

The major drawbacks imo are:

Bane as I noted, really sucks he was in this.

Indirectly they did manage to overpower Damian, pit enhanced Riddler was more than a match for Batman and also fought Bruce and Selina simultaneously. Damian if one remembers fought pit enhanced Deathstroke blow for blow lol. Also I cant help but wonder that Damian wasn't given Tim's role because Tim got his ass kicked by Selina and Jason in the comic.

Using Elliot's corpse is nowhere near as effective as resurrected Jason.

All things considered, it took the 2 biggest flaws of Hush which are the mystery and Elliot and vastly improved upon them.

Next up we have:

Superman: Red Son, yay

JLD: Apokolips

Superman: Man of Tomorrow, an original story, cautiously optimistic.

No Batman film for next year but there's a Death in the Family short coming. Atleast now people wont complain about Batman getting all the animated film, now they'll complain about Superman for once HA.

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#4367 Edited by entropy_aegis (20925 posts) - - Show Bio

Well some Bat related points from SDCC that I'd like to drop.

A new Birds of Prey ongoing from Azz that heavily leans on the film is coming. Not interested to be honest.

Snyder called Damian the perfect evolution of Batman...because he has no emotional connections. Did he both praise and throw shade at the character?

Tom King won big at the Eisners.

Lemire and Garcia made me somewhat more interested in their Joker projects and maybe I'll relent and get Lemire's because atleast its only 3 issues.

Nothing else really jumps out from the comic panels yet.

The tv shows info I've gathered is that:

Pennyworth is getting really good reviews. Its actors, tone, and production values have drawn lot of praise. Its been compared to James Bond and I think we might have a hit here. Its only 10 episodes long too so the season is going to be tight.

Batwoman on the other hand has drawn a very mixed response. Some reviews I've come across have torn it apart. The showrunner says she wont use the Bat villains that Arrow used but will use other villains that Arrow didn't. First up is Hush...poor Tommy, most characters would be considered lucky if they appeared in a tv show and animated film on the same year. Not this guy though. In any event Hush's presence pretty much confirms that he wont be in the Batman film at the least as the show runner herself clarified that BOP prevents them from using Renee Montoya . So by the set principles Joker wont be used, al Ghul's wont be used, BOP and Batman film villains wont be used, Bane most likely wont be used either as the Gotham showrunners had to beg for him for years and only got him because they were on their final season. Dick, Jason and Slade are on Titans so my favorites seem to be shielded from that crappy show at the moment.

First proper look at Deathstroke. Looks more like Deadshot tbh and the season premieres on 6th September which is much earlier than I expected.

No Caption Provided

Harley Quinn trailer

Hate to say it but this looks good and fun, visually it comes across as much more impressive than Young Justice and DC Animation of late. YJ has also gotten another season.

I skimmed through CW show panels and dear lord I cant believe I ever liked those. Every bit of info makes me cringe. They're bringing back long dead characters on Arrow and Diggle's son is future Deathstroke or something. Brandon Routh will be playing Kingdom Come Superman...alongside Tyler's regular Superman. On what world can Brandon pass off as an older version of Tyler?

The Flash is introducing Godspeed and Bloodwork, these guys only made their debut in the last 2-3 years. Talk about scraping at the bottom of the barrel. The Anti-Monitor and Monitor are played by the same guy and the Anti-Monitor is only a darker version of Monitor. Supergirl's main villain is obviously they cant use Morrison's Batman run and Bendis isn't even done with his story. The shows have sunk to levels that are staggeringly unimaginable. They've lost any ounce of creativity, all they rely on and have relied on for years are crossovers, which new character that they can introduce and deliberate controversies that puts them on the news. Certainly not even its fans can vouch for Arrowverses quality or story telling triumphs'.

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#4368 Posted by Magian (152573 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll agree that he looks a bit too Deadshot-y but still looks decent.

Glad YJ is getting another season because they have so many things going on, they would never be able to deal with all of them in a satisfying way in just this season.

They could always apply make-up to Routh or other stuff like this, like they did to Amell in the past. Didn't look that good but still.

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#4369 Posted by TDK_1997 (18811 posts) - - Show Bio

This year at SDCC DC's announcements literally sucked majorly. Both comic book world and cinematic/TV world.

At least I am happy that Young Justice is getting another season and that Deathstroke looks decent enough for me to care.

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#4370 Posted by entropy_aegis (20925 posts) - - Show Bio

@tdk_1997: The TV and animation departments delivered news and dropped reveals, its just most of those were tied to the awful CW verse but they tried at the least. So they put a decent showing on those fronts.

The comic staff should be ashamed. They've had a dozen panels and all they did was blab about their first comic, their favorite Robin, Grant Morrison's advice(if I hear Snyder repeat it again so help me). This non sense has been going on for years now. These things should be reserved for creator spotlight panels not company project panels.

The films seem to have given up altogether. MCU slaughtered them. They made even Shang Chi look appealing and they've got Jolie, Hayek, Portman etc. WB needs to step up big time.

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#4371 Posted by TDK_1997 (18811 posts) - - Show Bio


Yeah, what I meant was that whatever DC dropped was literally blown away by a Marvel announcement. Even the animated goods from DC and the news regarding their shows which are on their streaming service were nothing compared to what Marvel has in store. Young Justice, Titans, Doom Patrol and the upcoming Harley Quinn, all shows which I love or are showing promise didn't manage to excite me compared to what Marvel had to offer.

From a comic book point of view I don't even want to comment on the announcements...or the lack of ones actually. Biggest announcements was the broadness of Year of the Villain and the biggest books which were announced were Birds of Prey and Strange Adventures...

DC and WB need to take drastic measures if they even want to be considered as contenders to the MCU and Marvel next year.

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#4372 Edited by ZariusII (6023 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel movies are often 90% crap. I don't sweat their woke rubbish at all. DC have it in the bag with their tv content, they'll always deliver there.

Comics are another story. Marvel definitely came across better here, I have my misgivings already about Hickman's X-Men though

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#4373 Posted by entropy_aegis (20925 posts) - - Show Bio

@zariusii: Regardless, the MCU is a powerhouse franchise. The only reason Marvel can even make a film about guy like Shang Chi and expect it to turn profit is because of the strength of the brand. You think WB can proceed with Richard Dragon?

They're confident in their properties and unveiled a whole slate. Over at WB all I see in uncertainty. Uncertainty about their streaming service which puts YJ,HQ, Titans and Doom Patrol at risk. Swamp Thing has already been canned. Infact by the time Marvel unveils their service there's a good chance DCU will have been cancelled. Even promising shows like Pennyworth and Watchmen dont look as if they will have staying power. I dont even want to talk about films, what a mess they've made. Serve them right for letting hack Snyder have full reign.

The only certainty seems to come from those shit CW shows.


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