Batman and Detective comics discussion thread

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#4251 Posted by Black_Arrow (10286 posts) - - Show Bio

I really hope the story with Deadshot is really good, he hasn't got a story where he is a villain for a long time.

If Penguin and Catwoman are going to be the main villains, my hype for the Batman will decrease a lot. I am cool with the idea of having multiple villains as long as they use the one that are recognizable for the majority of the public and have a fairly simple origin story.

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#4252 Posted by Alexander505 (2849 posts) - - Show Bio

Interested to see Deadshot as a villain, but, he's still a threat for Batman?

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#4253 Posted by Aahz (1283 posts) - - Show Bio

To me it sounds more like Batman and Deadshot are going to team up again.

And that's something they just did last year in Suicide Squad.

I also don't think that we will Deadshot going full villain anytime soon. I think DC prefers him as anti hero.

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#4254 Posted by TDK_1997 (18763 posts) - - Show Bio

@black_arrow: I am not very sure that he will be the villain of the story as the solicits for the second August issue say that Deadshot came to Gotham to seek Batman's services basically.

In part two of “Take Your Shot,” Batman confronts Deadshot only to learn he’s come to Gotham City to enlist the skills of the World’s Greatest Detective! Can the two of them work together—or will their opposing ideologies get the best of them?(Detective Comics #1010)

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#4255 Posted by Eto (5336 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm hoping that Jason will barely appear in Event Leviathan. Normally, I'm all for more Jason, but written by Bendis? Thanks but no thanks.

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#4256 Posted by entropy_aegis (20908 posts) - - Show Bio

Well there are more rumors about the film, namely:

Jason Clarke as Thomas Wayne

Keri Russel as Martha Wayne

Josh Gad as Penguin

Vanessa Hudgens as Catwoman

Toby Kebbel as Scarecrow

Theo Rossi as Bane

If true as well as the idea of Riddler being in it and the six villains theory then so far 5 of the 6 villains have already been utilized. So its kinda underwhelming.

Story is supposedly about a murder and the villains will be suspects that Batman will interrogate. It definitely seems like Reeves is using the Loeb template. I hope he can improve on it. The potential actor for Bane isn't some roided up giant so there's hope that the character wont be reduced to dumb muscle.

Ofcourse, a part of me is glad that now characters like Bane, Riddler and Catwoman will be out of reach of the BOP films and Batwoman show.

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#4257 Posted by TDK_1997 (18763 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow, that was...underwhelming. I mean, I have nothing against Hudgens as Catwoman and Rossi as Bane, but all of the other rumored cast are so far away from their role. I mean, Pattison is far from looking like his character as well, but these seem rather odd castings.

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#4258 Posted by entropy_aegis (20908 posts) - - Show Bio

@tdk_1997: Its not confirmed at all and could be a load of nothing but yeah it doesn't seem too exciting. Haven't seen Rossi in anything that I can remember, is he any good?

It could just be guess work and speculation. Most of the actors have worked with Reeves and Gad has been practically begging for Penguin. Apparantely the people in charge are happy with Rossi with Bane. This comes across to me as very suspect. No way they cast Bane before Batman.

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#4259 Posted by entropy_aegis (20908 posts) - - Show Bio

Not really sure about AK's origin. It leans in to the Arkham family which I do like but the timeline of it really stings me as well as the idea of the rogues having some sort of crush on her. It also firmly put her in the same category as Wrath and Prometheus. She's the first true female anti-Batman. So she's certainly dangerous and resourceful and tragic too.

But the foundation of her villainy stands on extremely shaky grounds. Maybe Tomasi has long term plans for her similar to how King has with Bane and Selina or how Morrison had with Hurt and Talia because if he leaves her like Morrison left Prometheus and how Barr left Wrath then she'll end up in the same boat as them.

Maybe she'll reform and become Batman's partner or Robins partner for some time.

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#4260 Posted by Alexander505 (2849 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe she'll reform and become Batman's partner or Robins partner for some time.

No God, please no...

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#4261 Posted by Alexander505 (2849 posts) - - Show Bio

Tomasi is one of the best writer when we're talking about Batman, definitely he always know what he's doing. Since New 52 he created great new villains, maybe he has in mind something big about AK, I hope AK is not another Prometheus or Wrath*. Much appreciated how Tomas always knows how to portray the relantioship between Bruce and Damian, reminds me the great moments we had during Batman&Robin in the New 52, great stories. Much appreciated he used Phosporus and Arcane too.

*When Wrath come back btw? Authors forgot him. Shame.

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#4262 Posted by Black_Arrow (10286 posts) - - Show Bio

To be honest I would like the AK origin more if it didn't rely on a lie. I really like the idea of someone growing up seeing the villains as normal and Batman as a monster but I think that by having her motivation being based on a lie more than a warped true, It cheapens the character.

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#4263 Posted by entropy_aegis (20908 posts) - - Show Bio

Bleeding Cool believes King has been sacked from the Batman book and now his run will end at issue 85 out in november.

Good, very good imo. He'll finish City of Bane by 82 and can pen a 3 issue epilogue.

Dont want to gloat too soon but I'm happy even with the thought of this happening. If true he's probably thinking he shouldn't have wasted so much time on the filler issues nor taken the 100 issues for granted.

It also means no Bat/Cat marriage crap or whatever catastrophe he was teasing a few days ago in his final 15 issues. Bring Priest or Ellis on board now.

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#4264 Posted by Eto (5336 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: I so, SO hope it's true.

Lmao wouldn't that make his meeting with WB (regarding one permanent change to Batman) completely moot?

Unless the change happens THIS year, I'll take it with a grain of salt.

Although I must admit BC have a sick track record lately, 9/10 of the rumours turn out to be correct.

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#4265 Edited by ZariusII (5884 posts) - - Show Bio

Rich speculates it's due to DC taking a hard look at sales numbers and have ceased scratching their heads as to why titles like Hulk are beating the likes of filler like Knightmares. They're coming around to the idea a story like this doesn't need to take 100 issues.

It was an inevitability really, the post-wedding misfire was always going to catch up with the book. I still want Bat/Cat married, but it's admittedly a complex climb. Matt Reeves' Batman film is said to feature her as a villain so WB would be thinking about synergy and make Selina a criminal again, and Tomasi wouldn't touch it as he's not a fan so it'd be left out of Detective Comics, same as it's been even during Rebirth.

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#4266 Posted by ZariusII (5884 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4267 Posted by Morpheus_ (34637 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4268 Posted by Eto (5336 posts) - - Show Bio

Graceful response, even though it does not address the matter.

That said, he's the primary reason my interest in the entire Batman line has dwindled and I dropped everything for the past couple of months, so I won't even pretend the news displease me. Bad writing should have consequences. And King has been monumentally bad.

I couldn't agree more!

So what should we gather from his tweet. He doesn't confirm nor deny anything, but it the former seems to be the case since I'd presume if it weren't true he'd be on the defence and quickly debunk it...

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#4269 Edited by ZariusII (5884 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4270 Posted by Eto (5336 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4271 Edited by entropy_aegis (20908 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm glad that at the end of the day it appears that his filler rubbish did him in.

Had he skipped straight to "Fall and the Fallen" after "Tyrant Wing" then he wouldn't be facing this situation or even better, skipped straight to the wedding after the Superman/Lois arc. Instead he deliberately wasted time and issues just to crawl to the 100 issue mark. Its definitely a corporate dick move to let him off at 85, they tolerated him for so long that another 15 issues really wouldn't have mattered at all. This is their way of an epic troll and usually I would support the writer but given King's own track record since he had his own editor fired, I just cant feel any sympathy for him.

Besides I've come across 2 recent interview from him and by all account his story was due to end by 88 or 90 anyway by his own admission. The last 10-15 issues were bound to more filler.

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#4272 Posted by Magian (152059 posts) - - Show Bio

So the new Arkham Knight is a woman, huh? Feel free to spoil it to me.

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#4273 Posted by entropy_aegis (20908 posts) - - Show Bio

@magian: More like a girl, she's closer to Robin age wise.

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#4274 Posted by Magian (152059 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4275 Posted by entropy_aegis (20908 posts) - - Show Bio

@magian: Yeah, she could be a villain to any of the Robins or Batgirl if DC felt like it.

She's like... I dunno how to explain but she's not a bad person but even the vilest of villains seem to be exceptionally fond of her for some reason and since her father shielded her from regular society she seems to look at Batman as the tormentor and the villains as the victims. But her monologue in Tec 1000 did seem to suggest that she atleast saw some villains for what they are, case in point, Bane.

Though thankfully Tomasi hasn't white washed the bad guys to the point of incredulity. I can imagine the Joker finding her extremely amusing.

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#4276 Posted by entropy_aegis (20908 posts) - - Show Bio

If BC rumors are to be believed then we have the Hulk to thank for all this.

Thank you Hulk, we owe you one.

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#4277 Posted by Morpheus_ (34637 posts) - - Show Bio

If BC rumors are to be believed then we have the Hulk to thank for all this.

Thank you Hulk, we owe you one.

I think we just have to thank King for this, Venom casually outselling both of Bendis' Superman books is an inarguably greater failure.

Batman is a consistent top 10 seller and was outsold by Immortal Hulk, arguably the book with the greatest critical acclaim from both major companies, for a single month - it reeks of an excuse to be rid of King.

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#4278 Posted by entropy_aegis (20908 posts) - - Show Bio

@morpheus_: Hmmm, fair enough, now if only they got rid of Bendis too. It'd be perfect.

Assuming King is gone by December then there's a chance of Priest taking over as his Deathstroke is ending that month.

Ellis and Hitch are also rumored to be working on a Batman project that I'm guessing would have been announced for late this year or early next year. Perfect opportunity for that team to come on board.

I'm also pleased that atleast Bane's story will be completed and likely Thomas Wayne's too. Its the Bat/Cat shippers and Duke & Gotham Girl fans that got whipped across the face hahahaha.

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#4279 Edited by infantfinite128 (5999 posts) - - Show Bio

I saw this in my subscription feed and came here to see your thoughts.

Great news if it's true.

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#4280 Posted by belrev516 (140 posts) - - Show Bio

https://www.cbr.com/tom-king-leaving-batman/amp/

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#4281 Posted by Morpheus_ (34637 posts) - - Show Bio

Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but the reasoning presented by Bleeding Cool is nonsensical. Could it be that DC's standards are higher than I ever gave them credit for? Because from a reasonable standpoint, the book was still selling tremendously well: it's a mainstay in the top 10.

As long as they don't give it to Bendis or Snyder, I cannot see how the quality will go anywhere but up. Priest or Ellis would be a dream.

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#4282 Posted by Black_Arrow (10286 posts) - - Show Bio

I hope this is true and he is replaced by someone far better. I hope that his downfall was both his excesive filler and that change he wanted to do to Batman.

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#4283 Edited by entropy_aegis (20908 posts) - - Show Bio

@black_arrow: Yeah, I do believe its precisely those 2 factors. Just a few hours ago I came across an interview where King himself stated that his run was ending at 90. So he was planning on writing more filler and dumping his change on the next writer.

Its funny how he went around bragging about 100 issues like an idiot only to get his legs cut off just when he's close to the finish line. The irony is delicious really. Goes to show that he should put primary emphasis on plot points and narrative targets that needed to be covered instead of issue numbers that needed to be checked off.

Its going to be incredible when Williamson quitely gets his hundred issues on Flash and becomes the only writer from Rebirth to do so.

I've heard some desperate speculation that King might get moved to a new Batman book based on the history of his predecessors. While I cannot rule it out I do feel its unlikely. For one thing its all about writers own goals. Morrison had himself moved from Batman to Batman & Robin and finally Batman INC because he felt strongly about the subject matter and narrative of the books matching the title and branding. Snyder moved from Batman to All Star Batman because he flatly refused a twice monthly schedule at that time.

King's only ambition was getting to that number 100, no way is his situation comparable to Morrison and Snyder. Additionally if WB was unwilling to see his change printed in the first place then I dont see how he's going to get a book about it.

Finally the final phase of his run was essentially a bloated epilogue instead of being a complete story. A book like that would only appeal to King's die hard supporters. I dont see them signing off on a book whose purpose is essentially to pander to specific fans. King would've had to significantly alter it to extend its appeal.If this was creator owned then sure but here we're dealing with DC's biggest IP.

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#4284 Posted by entropy_aegis (20908 posts) - - Show Bio

Well its confirmed now. Not to the general public but to the retailers. Thank God and in time for Christmas too, yay.

He can go write a Kite-Man series now. I'm sure his fans will swallow another 100 issues of Kite-Man saying "hell yeah" ad nauseam.

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#4285 Posted by King-Ragnar (4426 posts) - - Show Bio

So is King's run going to last to #105 or #85?

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#4286 Edited by entropy_aegis (20908 posts) - - Show Bio

New report from Bleeding Cool shedding light on the situation

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/05/23/tom-king-batman/

First of all, it was Harras who got King fired because he didn't like King's run.

He used the "Knightmares" arc as an excuse to do it. Serve King right imo, the boring filler bothered me far more than his controversies. Its an important lesson for him. Nothing gives any writer the right to keep churning out filler for months while leaving the main plot on the sidelines. There is a limit to decompression.

This is definitely a big FU from DC because much like Tec they're willing to wait till 100 for the new creative team to take over. BC thinks that the new writer will be Bendis and he has been informed to clear the deck but that's about a year and a half from now. In any case they've confirmed that its a DC exclusive writer. If the Bendis thing is true then I dont see Young Justice lasting 15 months from now. The Ellis and Hitch book has been suggested as a replacement.

King has been offered Catwoman to complete his story...LMAO. Either that or a Batman/Catwoman book. Hahaha. I'm guessing this is why there hasn't been an official announcement yet. They're still holding talks about it.

Nonetheless I see these talks falling apart for the following reasons:

1) Unlike Morrison and Snyder King's not moving to a new book consensually. Nor does he have a unique stanalone story to tell. A leftover epilogue from another run is hardly a series worthy endeavor.

2) Going from Batman to Catwoman is ignomious especially in this brazen manner.

3) Even if he accepts Catwoman or Batman/Catwoman, its definitely the end of Joelle's writing gig. Sure King can take her as the artist but it would still be d!ck move that sets her career back.

4) Ego: King wanted his 100 issues, he's not getting them now so no point in continuing.

5) Its a pointless exercise: If he couldn't enforce his big changes as the head writer then he cannot do it a side writer.

6) 20 issues are sure as hell bigger than what a standard limited series format allows. Forcing him to condense it to 6 or 8 or even 12 and that too without the big change he wanted satisfies neither King's desire for a 100 issues nor his ambition to leave a lasting impact on the character.

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#4287 Posted by Morpheus_ (34637 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: This part of the article is hilarious to me.

The argument that has made to me is that King’s Batman is too esoteric for the main book on which so much of the publisher rests.

King's "I'm Batman!" Batman is too "esoteric" but Morrison's run wasn't? King helmed the most asinine and idiotic run of the past three decades. No need to sugarcoat it.

I admit I'll be disappointed if Bendis is King's replacement. But I don't believe even current Bendis will prove inferior to King's utter drivel.

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#4288 Edited by ZariusII (5884 posts) - - Show Bio
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Set a date for Saturday

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#4289 Edited by entropy_aegis (20908 posts) - - Show Bio

I can see it being true tbh, controversy is all that King has been feeding on for the last few years. But he's off Bstman either way. I honestly dont care if he writes a Bat/Cat wedding event that launches a Bat/Cat book. Secondly, with this stunt many of his own supporters will turn on him. Because all he has done is upset THEM. Its a strategy that goes up its own ass. Free publicity lmao, its not like it made it to national news or even trended on twitter. Its the same old comic websites that even bothered to report it. Bleeding Cool in particular exists to provide free publicity lol.

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#4290 Posted by entropy_aegis (20908 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4292 Edited by Black_Arrow (10286 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4293 Posted by entropy_aegis (20908 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol at King comparing it to Morrison's Batman and Robin. Even though King was fired after bragging about his 100 issue plans.

Also Batman and Robin gave us a brand new Batman and Robin, it was the first time Damian starred in an ongoing, it flipped the traditional Batman and Robin dynamics, introduced new villains.

King on the other hand is writing what he's written for 50 issues. The same tired Bat/Cat fan fiction. I'm sure we'll get whole issues where Catwoman gets drunk or chooses a dress.

Thank God he's off the main book and I'm guessing Tec will also go monthly in January because thats when it catches up to Action and on a monthly schedule Batman will reach hundred in March 2021. Just before the new film which gives them a good opportunity to put a new creative team.

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#4294 Posted by ZariusII (5884 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm, I wonder how Jones will fit any of this into her Catwoman title? Unless that book has to become a prequel for a full year...

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#4295 Posted by Eto (5336 posts) - - Show Bio

There there, King fans. You'll get 12 more issues of filler.

lmao.

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#4296 Edited by entropy_aegis (20908 posts) - - Show Bio

@zariusii: They'll cancel Catwoman, just watch. Batman/Catwoman is still 8 months away so they didn't have to rush any announcement. Jones I believe hasn't drawn anything in several months and a fill in writer has been writing and will further write various issues in the future.

By January they'll quitely can it, I'm sure of it.

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#4297 Posted by ZariusII (5884 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4298 Edited by entropy_aegis (20908 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, Last Knight was ok. It was actually rather restrained despite being promoted as something that is seriously over the top. Or more likely all that promotional material had sucked the juice out of the first issue entirely because all the big reveals were already revealed beforehand. Still, I'm interested, looks fun. Hints at a new villain called Omega who is the big bad. This guy is apparantely one of Batman's old partners and has a connection to Darkseid I assume. Damian is literally the only person who fulfills the criteria.

Tec Annual was pretty cool, had references to Year:Two and R.I.P. Really reminded me of the first Batman and Robin annual from years ago. Very interested in the Reaper revamp.

I've discussed Leviathan Rising on the Superman boards but I think its pertinent to mention Talia's involvement here.

She's been kicked out and hilariously threatened Leviathan with Damian avenging her. I dont know if this hints at anything significant. What could prove to be significant is that this offers Talia a chance to be free of Leviathan forever and an opportunity to revert to the classic version. On the otherhand this could also serve to detach Leviathan from Batman's rogues gallery.

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#4299 Edited by Alexander505 (2849 posts) - - Show Bio

So there's a new Reaper and now is even an criminal organization. I like the idea, I wonder if it will last long, new Batman's villains don't last usually.

The new dude who take over the Leviathan will be defeated obviously, so, someone else will get the control, Talia can always come back to the Leviathan leadership. Put Talia beck to her old role is a step back onestly.

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#4300 Posted by Aahz (1283 posts) - - Show Bio

@zariusii: They'll cancel Catwoman,

I don't think that would be a big loss, the new run has been quite mediocre sofar.

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