Batman and Detective comics discussion thread

Avatar image for entropy_aegis
#1501 Edited by entropy_aegis (20196 posts) - - Show Bio

Looks like JL fans will have to deal with Snyder's Joker boner in the future. He has said that he has plans for the Dark Knights post Metal and thanked fans for supporting creation of "new characters" like the Batman Who Laughs which translates to him just keeping that guy.

Also guys one day I'm gonna create a new character named the Nightwing who drugs who'll basically be Dick with venom tubes attached to him. What an original new character right? or how about the Robin who flips a coin? ingenious... oh oh here's a cool one, the Batgirl who riddles eureka.

Avatar image for all-father
#1502 Posted by All-Father (9465 posts) - - Show Bio

Is Alan Grant's run on Shadow of the Bat worth reading?

Avatar image for morpheus_
#1503 Posted by Morpheus_ (32671 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: The power of the Batman Who Laughs is his design and the idea of a Bat/Joker merging. Even randomly looking up Batman pictures on pinterest had him pop up several times, which I cannot say is the case for anyone else from the Knights. I don't like him, his origin is silly and the only reason he is this way is a virus -- hardly compelling. But he is superficially impressive.

Nightwing who drugs made me chuckle, though.

Avatar image for entropy_aegis
#1504 Posted by entropy_aegis (20196 posts) - - Show Bio

@morpheus_: Superficially impressive is the right word. But even a merging isn't novel. Dick from TDKSA and Tim from Batman Beyond were also Jokers.

Additionally Futures End had a Batman/Joker hybrid as did Smallville comics. This is just the Snyder hype machine at work.

@all-father: His Detective with Breyfogle was better.

Avatar image for morpheus_
#1505 Posted by Morpheus_ (32671 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: The difference is that this is the first time we are seeing such an iteration in the core universe, interacting with numerous Prime versions of characters in a story that DC has hyped immensely, with a creative team that is highly regarded by casual fans and mostly very well liked by Bat fans. So yes, hype machine sounds like the proper reason for it.

Avatar image for eto
#1506 Posted by Eto (4869 posts) - - Show Bio

@morpheus_: @entropy_aegis: I’m getting Metal, evil Batmen (or whatever they’re called.lol) and Gotham resistance in trades (they all come out in June btw) so I haven’t read anything of Metal yet.

I think it’s due to the hype of Batman/Joker. It’s basically the Amalgamation some fans have been waiting for. Can’t wait for evil Batjoker to join the Justice League. Lmfao.

#SnyderEffect

Online
Avatar image for black_arrow
#1507 Edited by Black_Arrow (9946 posts) - - Show Bio

Is Alan Grant's run on Shadow of the Bat worth reading?

I thought It was awesome specially the first issues.

Avatar image for all-father
#1508 Edited by All-Father (9465 posts) - - Show Bio

Saw some early scans for Batman #40. It's pretty much what you expect. More cringey dialogue and King writing Catwoman as if she's an Iron Fist.

Avatar image for assassinb
#1509 Edited by AssassinB (141 posts) - - Show Bio

@all-father: At this rate King is only alienating the fanbase. That's why I think the stupid marriage thing is a bad idea. So many people want Batman paired with someone else. So making him "offically" with Selina ruins the fun of the other shippers. LOL Poor Mr. King :3 I think he should have given an Elseworld instead.

Avatar image for entropy_aegis
#1510 Posted by entropy_aegis (20196 posts) - - Show Bio

The preview for the Mother Panic/Batman special is already mindblowing.

Avatar image for lvenger
#1511 Posted by Lvenger (34882 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't expect any improvements from Batman #40, it's still a badly written mess that heavily rips off 'For a Thousand Years' right to the ending. Wonder Woman is used to prop up Bruce and Selina's love and it makes no sense why The Gentle Man needs to fight the endless Horde in this other dimension when the portal can only be opened from one side. But turns out Batman not only came close to cheating on Selina with Wonder Woman, now he's making out with Jessica Cruz in Priest's Justice League. Looks like Bruce has a thing for the ladies of the League now.

Avatar image for entropy_aegis
#1512 Edited by entropy_aegis (20196 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

Don't expect any improvements from Batman #40, it's still a badly written mess that heavily rips off 'For a Thousand Years' right to the ending. Wonder Woman is used to prop up Bruce and Selina's love and it makes no sense why The Gentle Man needs to fight the endless Horde in this other dimension when the portal can only be opened from one side. But turns out Batman not only came close to cheating on Selina with Wonder Woman, now he's making out with Jessica Cruz in Priest's Justice League. Looks like Bruce has a thing for the ladies of the League now.

LMAO at the Jessica Cruz part. Oh I hope Tomasi rekindles his relationship with Talia in Tec if he takes over that book, Snyder should definitely go for Batman X Zatanna in JL. The next BOP should focus on Batman and Canary. Heck Super Sons can start a secret relationship between Superman and Batman. Anything to rub it in King's face, it would be amazing if other writers had Batman in relationships on their books while King continues to live in his bizarro world.

Priest completely blindsided the suckers, though I must say that the scene was very ambiguously written. It could be a kiss, it could be the start of a full on love making session or it could be nothing at all. The scene can easily be interpreted in all 3 ways.

Avatar image for supergoku17
#1513 Posted by SuperGoku17 (5679 posts) - - Show Bio

What have they done to poor batman?

Online
Avatar image for jameswayne
#1514 Posted by JamesWayne (784 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: that's a huge misstep on dc editorial if they did that. why was he with Jessica cruz? might this take place before Selina?

Avatar image for zariusii
#1515 Edited by ZariusII (4257 posts) - - Show Bio

Pretty sure the Jesse thing is a diversionary tactic given the circumstances.

Avatar image for black_arrow
#1516 Posted by Black_Arrow (9946 posts) - - Show Bio

I laughed hard when Jessica started kissing Batman.

Avatar image for all-father
#1517 Posted by All-Father (9465 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

Don't expect any improvements from Batman #40, it's still a badly written mess that heavily rips off 'For a Thousand Years' right to the ending. Wonder Woman is used to prop up Bruce and Selina's love and it makes no sense why The Gentle Man needs to fight the endless Horde in this other dimension when the portal can only be opened from one side. But turns out Batman not only came close to cheating on Selina with Wonder Woman, now he's making out with Jessica Cruz in Priest's Justice League. Looks like Bruce has a thing for the ladies of the League now.

I genuinely struggled not to rip apart the book.

Oh I hope Tomasi rekindles his relationship with Talia in Tec if he takes over that book, Snyder should definitely go for Batman X Zatanna in JL. The next BOP should focus on Batman and Canary.

I highly doubt he'll hook up with Talia again. As for Zatanna, that is possible. As for Dinah, won't be happening as she is back with GA.

Priest completely blindsided the suckers, though I must say that the scene was very ambiguously written. It could be a kiss, it could be the start of a full on love making session or it could be nothing at all. The scene can easily be interpreted in all 3 ways.

Funny enough, this would be the second leaguer that Jessica attempts to hook up with.

Avatar image for elsbook
#1518 Posted by elsbook (6 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm so fed up with King throwing all my favorites character under the bus to praise his stupid ship. He has turned this series into a fanfiction where all the characters -Bruce, Damian, Talia, Clark, Lois and now Diana- act completely ooc to paint Selina in a good light, Batman #40 was just so WW could say Selina is a “hero”- so we will magically forget she is a criminal and completelty oppositte to what Batman represents. She has become poison for the rest of the characers. This is suppose to be a Batman comic, not the Catwoman show. Luckily, once King is gone, this batcat nonsence will be over.

Avatar image for enzo991
#1519 Edited by Enzo991 (417 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegissaid:

LMAO at the Jessica Cruz part. Oh I hope Tomasi rekindles his relationship with Talia in Tec if he takes over that book, Snyder should definitely go for Batman X Zatanna in JL. The next BOP should focus on Batman and Canary. Heck Super Sons can start a secret relationship between Superman and Batman. Anything to rub it in King's face, it would be amazing if other writers had Batman in relationships on their books while King continues to live in his bizarro world.

I am not proud to say this, but this is exactly what I was thinking as well. I really hope other writers are deliberately trying to throw wrenches into King's shitty "Wedding Arc", because I don't think any self respecting writer could look at the mess King has made and think that it is in any way shape or form can be called good. Oh what I would do to see Talia or Zatanna return to the limelight in Bruce's life. This just pisses me off even more. I don't need to be reminded of what much better romantic stories involving Batman we could have gotten had DC been able to take their collective heads out of their asses for a moment.

In short, I love how despite everyone heaping empty praise on King for his supposed ground breaking fanfic, that no writer is even willing to acknowledge his run in any way. To see writers even going out of their way to do things that invalidate King's run pleases me greatly. Seeing people trying to futilely attempt to reconcile Batman's other appearances outside of King's book with the stuff King's been doing is hilarious to be fair. But but maybe this is before he proposed, he doesn't have his cat yet that's why. I am waiting to see how the crazy shippers are going to harass Priest on twitter over this. The guy is probably leaving DC soon and doesn't care at this point anyway.

So do we know if Tomasi is taking over Tec for sure ? Or is that still a rumor ? If it is true, that gives me a glimmer of hope that there might be some surprises coming from the Bat office after all.

Avatar image for entropy_aegis
#1520 Posted by entropy_aegis (20196 posts) - - Show Bio

I dont want to talk about King's book lol. I read the issue,I could go on a rant about the pathetic "writing" but I'm not. I'm just gonna discuss what I did like.

Batman/Mother Panic special had a very cool and amusing take on Batman. The part about a certain someone knowing Bruce's secret annoyed me but beyond that it was entertaining and I wasn't lost as I feared I would.

The Shadow/Batman is how Batman comics should be like all the time, nuff said.

White Knight, Murphy's story is really coming together now and goddamn his vehicular action is easily the best I've ever seen in any comic.

Avatar image for enzo991
#1521 Edited by Enzo991 (417 posts) - - Show Bio

Seeing as how good Batman books are in very short supply, it is much easier to talk about how terrible King is instead of going through the other Bat books with a microscope just to find something we enjoy. At this point White Knight is the only decent Batman book. I have yet to read today's issue though, so here is hoping Murphy keeps the story interesting all the way through. Not sure what we are going to read once all of those minis are over, and we are left with just King's Batman and Tec. I am hoping that Tomasi rumor turns out to have some truth to it. I am not too excited for Tomasi, as much as I just want to have a decent Bat book in my pull list once again.

Avatar image for imspitterman
#1522 Posted by imSpitterman (275 posts) - - Show Bio

@enzo991: The Shadow/Batman is pretty awesome too. I really enjoy reading it because it stays true to the characters. You should try it.

Avatar image for entropy_aegis
#1523 Posted by entropy_aegis (20196 posts) - - Show Bio

@enzo991: I think these following books should quench your thirst for good Batman stories:

White Knight

The Shadow/Batman

Batman/TMNT

Creature of the Night

Then we have specials like the one with Mother Panic and Metal. There's also two more books coming, the one co starring Wonder Woman and the other based on the Telltale games. So till the summer atleast we can blissfully ignore King. There's a lot of variety offered.

Avatar image for entropy_aegis
#1524 Posted by entropy_aegis (20196 posts) - - Show Bio

Murphy gave an interview on DC All Access where he talks about doing a sequel to WK. The current volume ends in May and then Murphy draws Snyder's final arc which will be his final work with another writer or so he says. So if he doesn't do another creator owned project first I'd guess 2020 is the release date. If he does then 2021. Its interesting because Murphy signed on for one solo project and the Snyder arc. He's expressed disdain for working with big publishers particularly Marvel. So DC must be really happy and giving him a lot of clout for him to return this fast.

That said I find his approach to Harley incredibly puzzling. He's separated the classic from the New 52 but he's depicting the classic as being more closer to the New 52 while the New 52 Harley is closer to the classic. The actual modern Harley doesn't give a crap about the Joker and is portrayed as an anti-hero while the classic is completely dependant on Joker and will do anything to gain his attention.Murphy's got it completely backwards, his understanding seems to be limited to the costumes. Old= fully covered= good, new = oversexualized= bad. Harley's innocous and cutsie appearence is exactly what made her dangerous imo.

I dont care too much because neither of his Harleys are particularly obnoxious to distract me from the plot and I'm not enough of a Harley fan to care( infact not a fan at all). But that said I do hope he moves on to other villains or angles in his second volume. This has been a story about Joker and Harley through and through.

Avatar image for morpheus_
#1525 Posted by Morpheus_ (32671 posts) - - Show Bio

The awkward moment where King can even write a brilliant Swamp Thing story and say more about that character in 40 pages than he has for Batman in as many issues.

Avatar image for enzo991
#1526 Posted by Enzo991 (417 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis:I am keeping up with White Knight. Issue 5 was pretty good. Amazing art, and an interesting story. I don't like how unhinged Bruce is though, or how much of a dick...well Dick is being. I know this loosely follows the continuity of the Animated series, which might explain the strained relationship between Bruce and Dick, but Bruce's characterization is not very convincing. I also agree that the two Harleys are kinda weird. Murphy clearly likes the Joker and Harley being a couple, and that informed both of their characterizations and portrayals in the story. Not unlike how King's obsession with shipping Catwoman and Batman has dictated everything about his run.

Murphy is much more reasonable about it though, so it is nowhere as offensive as King's attempt shoehorn his shipping into the story. It is also clear that the Joker will relapse at some point, so Murphy is not distorting the characters completely to satisfy his own obsession, hence why I don't have much of a problem with it. White Knight is one of those stories were we will have to wait until the end to see if it sticks the landing, and that pretty much will decide how the entire story will be viewed once it is done. I will check the Shadow/Batman out, but as I have mentioned before, a cross companies team-up book will never be a substitute for a proper Batman title.

@morpheus_: Watch people use Swamp Thing to justify how Tom King could do no wrong and therefore his Batman must be a masterpiece. I have no idea what is King's issue with Batman.....actually I do, I just don't understand how many others can't see it. I read some of King's other books like Vision and the first couple of issues of Miracle and disliked both. Granted they are nowhere near as bad as his Batman, but I disliked them nevertheless. I didn't read his Swamp Thing tribute, and frankly I don't plan to, but I don't believe it is going to change my opinion of him no matter how much praise it gets. The guy's style is just not for me.

Avatar image for entropy_aegis
#1527 Posted by entropy_aegis (20196 posts) - - Show Bio

@enzo991: Ofcourse but Shadow/ Batman and its predecessor have fantastic versions of Joker, Ra's, Robin, Pyg and Batman. Orlando has already proven he can do a great job with Dick too. It has detective work and a Batman who shows combat skill. Orlando hands down deserves a real shot at Batman. Him and Priest are my ideal replacements for King and Tynion. Frankly if it weren't for Snyder I dont think either King and Tynion would have been selected in the first place. So yeah he's the root cause of all problems.

Avatar image for entropy_aegis
#1528 Posted by entropy_aegis (20196 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for morpheus_
#1529 Posted by Morpheus_ (32671 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: I feel I am doing that story a huge disservice by not mentioning Fabok. He elevates the issue into art. A rarity where an artist can capture characters from any range with equal aptitude.

King even provided a reasoning as to why ST was being repetitive a few times. Maybe Batman's IQ has also dropped several points. :P

Avatar image for entropy_aegis
#1530 Edited by entropy_aegis (20196 posts) - - Show Bio

@morpheus_: Yeah I didn't even mind the kids constant babbling. Normally when there's terrific art I hate constant babbling because it takes me away from the story.

It reminded me of the Grayson issue with Midnighter, Helena and baby in the desert

Avatar image for hauntedgraveyard
#1531 Posted by HauntedGraveyard (248 posts) - - Show Bio

Read issues 39&40 the other day and they are absolute garbage. Story was so stupid. Its as if they had no other ideas and were just like “hey let’s have batman (spoiler) some (spoiler). Screw it.”

Can’t wait until he is off the book. The war of Jokes & Riddles is his best so far. Everything else is bad in my opinion.

Avatar image for entropy_aegis
#1532 Posted by entropy_aegis (20196 posts) - - Show Bio

The Micheal Cray book from the Wildstorm line has featured evil versions of Green Arrow, Flash and Aquaman. I dont read it but its obvious that sooner or later he'll go up against Batman. God now I'm depending on Deathstroke and crossovers for my Batman fix. Thanks a lot Bat writers.

Avatar image for morpheus_
#1533 Posted by Morpheus_ (32671 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: My only complaint was that the plot twist seemed fairly obvious after a while. But the execution of their interactions and the insight to ST's character was still powerful. The kid basically serves as a conduit to Alec's perceptions and psyche, not really an antagonist -- as a child, I found his dialogue fairly realistic. He's a kid in a tight spot, excited and frightened, prone to talk a lot without considerable coherency.

I've read the first issue of the Wild Storm, I try not to miss out on much of Ellis's work. No idea if Cray's solo is good besides his interactions with evil alternate versions of heroes.

Avatar image for entropy_aegis
#1534 Posted by entropy_aegis (20196 posts) - - Show Bio

@morpheus_: I expected the twist but I didn't fully understand it if you get what I mean haha. I've read it once, I'll read it again and then get back at you with my hopefully greater understanding.

I loved Orlando's Midnighter series and its sequel with both Midnighter and Apollo but Wildstorm didn't appeal to me.

I'll check out Cray when Batman shows up and if I like it I'll go back for the other issues.

Avatar image for morpheus_
#1535 Posted by Morpheus_ (32671 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: Sounds good. My understanding was that ST realized the child was the monster at the end of each day, but elected to forget as a means of avoiding the truth that in many ways, he is a monster, too. Both physically and in terms of his actions, since he is forced to inevitably kill a child that he cared for, or another monster that is a kindred spirit and similar to himself.

Did you see Slade taking down Super-Man with gum?

Avatar image for entropy_aegis
#1536 Posted by entropy_aegis (20196 posts) - - Show Bio

@morpheus_: I have a similar perspective just that the nature of the kid eludes me.

I haven't read Deathstroke yet. Dont apologize for the spoiler lol.

Avatar image for morpheus_
#1537 Posted by Morpheus_ (32671 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: LOL, sorry. Let me know once you check it out. It reminded me of Priest's Black Panther overloading Iron Man's armor with some soap.

Avatar image for entropy_aegis
#1538 Posted by entropy_aegis (20196 posts) - - Show Bio

@morpheus_: Sounds PISsy to me. Uh Slade just whacked him with his staff and left him lol.

Avatar image for morpheus_
#1539 Posted by Morpheus_ (32671 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: Could be, other than reading his appearance in the Superman: Multiplicity arc, I have no knowledge of Kenan.

Avatar image for Alex79uk
#1540 Posted by Alex79uk (13 posts) - - Show Bio

Hi all - it's been years since I've posted here, despite often reading, so here goes...!

I've been a life long Bat-fan, but am only just starting out on the Grant Morrison run. I've dipped in and over the years, and I own a few of the TPB's, but out of context they make little sense, so I thought I'd start right at the beginning and work my way through them.

But that's not really what my question is about. Obviously I know there have been several Robin's over the years, and I've never questioned how or why or when, but it's just occurred to me that I've never read anything regarding the actual change over periods.

So, I'm asking three things really, and I'm hoping the answers can be found in TPB's or single issues that I can then go and read.

1. When did Dick Grayson stop being Robin and become Night Wing?

2. When did Jason Todd become Robin?

3. When did Tim Drake become Robin?

As I said, I've read loads of stories where they're already Robin (or in Dick's case, Nightwing), but I've never read any comics that dealt directly with those change over periods.

Any pointers are gratefuly received, thanks in advance!

Avatar image for morpheus_
#1541 Posted by Morpheus_ (32671 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for aahz
#1542 Posted by Aahz (1254 posts) - - Show Bio

@Alex79uk said:

Hi all - it's been years since I've posted here, despite often reading, so here goes...!

I've been a life long Bat-fan, but am only just starting out on the Grant Morrison run. I've dipped in and over the years, and I own a few of the TPB's, but out of context they make little sense, so I thought I'd start right at the beginning and work my way through them.

But that's not really what my question is about. Obviously I know there have been several Robin's over the years, and I've never questioned how or why or when, but it's just occurred to me that I've never read anything regarding the actual change over periods.

So, I'm asking three things really, and I'm hoping the answers can be found in TPB's or single issues that I can then go and read.

1. When did Dick Grayson stop being Robin and become Night Wing?

2. When did Jason Todd become Robin?

3. When did Tim Drake become Robin?

As I said, I've read loads of stories where they're already Robin (or in Dick's case, Nightwing), but I've never read any comics that dealt directly with those change over periods.

Any pointers are gratefuly received, thanks in advance!

Since there are multiple retelling there is often not one answer to that story.

In Dicks case he became originally Nightwing During the New Teen Titans Judas Contract Storyline (which is at the moment available as TPB) but this was retold in Nightwing: Year One (which is not the moment available).

Jason pre crisis origin as Robin (the one were he was also an acrobat) was afaik never collected. The more famous post crisis origin (were he steals the tiers of the Batmobile) is available in a TPB called "Batman: Second Chances".

Tims Origin story is afaik included in the Death in the Family TPB (or at least in the current version), the story of him becoming Robin is collected in "Robin: Reborn" (they are currently publishing his old stories in TPB and that the first volume).

Avatar image for entropy_aegis
#1543 Posted by entropy_aegis (20196 posts) - - Show Bio

@morpheus_: The description about his powers was spot on but the fight just ended abruptly which confused me.

Avatar image for jakefuryv2
#1544 Posted by JakeFuryV2 (1544 posts) - - Show Bio

Finished vol 3 of Rebirth Detective. Not the greatest Bat book ever but enjoyable. I liked the focus on Cassandra in this volume.

Avatar image for all-father
#1545 Posted by All-Father (9465 posts) - - Show Bio

Has anyone read Sins of the father? If so would you recommend it?

Avatar image for eto
#1546 Posted by Eto (4869 posts) - - Show Bio

@jakefuryv2: I recommend Batman: Creature of Night.

Written by Busiek :)

Online
Avatar image for entropy_aegis
#1547 Edited by entropy_aegis (20196 posts) - - Show Bio

@all-father: The first issue was passable. But I'll stick around because its a Deadshot centric story and Gage writes one hell of a Deadshot.

So I expect the story to pick up massively when Floyd shows up. I'm glad we're getting a modern Deadshot vs Batman story even if its not in continuity. He's been stuck meandering in that awful Squad for years now.

Avatar image for amberprice
#1548 Edited by Amberprice (2430 posts) - - Show Bio

The (English-language) Batman: Ninja trailer looks so cool.

Avatar image for morpheus_
#1549 Posted by Morpheus_ (32671 posts) - - Show Bio

Wild Hunt was filled with appropriately Morrison-esque strangeness.

Avatar image for zariusii
#1550 Posted by ZariusII (4257 posts) - - Show Bio

So Stephanie's now been put on a bus and has left Gotham City entirely....ugh, her whole journey in 'Tec has seen one lousy turn after another, I should consider this a mercy. Way to spoil Spoiler.

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.