Batman and Detective comics discussion thread

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#701 Posted by TDK_1997 (17812 posts) - - Show Bio

@jameswayne: I am still reading it only out of curiosity not because I like the direction or the characterization that Tyinion is giving the characters. It's a shame that one of the most important books for DC is at such a bad state right now while on the hunt for that 1000th issue.

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#702 Posted by JamesWayne (270 posts) - - Show Bio

@tdk_1997: I understand that. It's why I'm reading Batman still. I think kings writing of the character and lacing in particular has crazy flaws, but he's trying something new and I want to see where it goes. Cause honestly how does a "happy" Batman even function?

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#703 Posted by entropy_aegis (19089 posts) - - Show Bio

Yikes, I think calling Tim an outright failure is a bit exagerrated lol.

But damn Tynion isn't doing these Tec characters any favors. I get that he wants to show why they're cool characters and they undoubtedly have been neglected but as I said to Lvenger in my private conversation with him I cant see a hint of O'Neal,Dixon,Puckett and Brian Miller in these versions of JPV,Tim,Cass and Steph and they're pushing Kate away from Rucka's version too. Even in the preview for Batwoman 8 Kate is hallucinating Bennet's Coryana under fear toxin, COME ON.

I'm legitimately curious to see what exactly forms the basis for Tynion's characterization for these characters. Right now I believe Tynion's base is

JPV=Knightquest

Cass=Fugitive/Murderer

Steph= War Games

Tim= Johns TT and New 52

I dont think he knows about these characters beyond that.

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#704 Edited by entropy_aegis (19089 posts) - - Show Bio

King is also retarded, I feel my IQ dropping every time I read an issue of his Batman.

Then I have to read Mister Miracle to regain my IQ. He's phoning it on Batman big time, if I wasn't such a Batman fan I'd actually laugh at his work on the title.

Anyone remember that POS character Gotham and his sister?

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#705 Posted by Eto (3250 posts) - - Show Bio

King is also retarded, I feel my IQ dropping every time I read an issue of his Batman.

Lmao this is so true.

Then I have to read Mister Miracle to regain my IQ. He's phoning it on Batman big time, if I wasn't such a Batman fan I'd actually laugh at his work on the title.

Anyone remember that POS character Gotham and his sister?

havent heard of them ever since the first arc. They are irreleant and unnecesary imo.

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#706 Posted by Eto (3250 posts) - - Show Bio

@imspitterman: Its not 666 Batman as far as I'm concerned, that Batman cant be killed. That Batman also had a definite beginning and definite end to his story, he became Batman when Dick died and then he got Gotham nuked. There's no room in that story for anything else, its a completely separate future. Tynion's attempts to force it with Titans of Tomorrow was abysmal to say the least and I like how he threw the 3 characters whom he hasn't even used so far under the bus as opposed to the characters he does use. This was just pure wank, 666 Damian is in line for Arkham Asylum 2 from Morrison which will blow this out of the water when it comes out anyway and in the meantime we've got Super Sons of Tomorrow with that Batman (hopefully) getting his own crossover. Tynion's and his fans can keep their fan fiction.

Speaking of even Outlaws saw a dip in quality this week as it got folded with the Bat office and starred those Tec characters. I'm betting they were forced there because this Tim arc so far has left them out completely so they needed them to appear elsewhere.

I have yet to receive my comics (I live in The Netherlands) but damn that sucks!

RHATO is my favorite Batbook.

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#707 Posted by JamesWayne (270 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: was teen Tim that uber smart under Geoff johns? I know adult was but that was the point of adult Tim.

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#708 Posted by Bat_Girl_CC (6034 posts) - - Show Bio

Read tec. What a piece of shit comic this was. I had dropped the book but came back for the Tim arc. Honestly tynion spent the entire issue showing why Tim is the best character of the bstfamily in terms of capability. Since when the hell has he ever been written smarter than Bruce? Tims under tynoon needs to go. Better yet tynion needs to go. Enough of this. Enough of downplaying Bruce for Cass, Shiva, kate and tim. Enough repetitive stupid storylines about the chosen savior of the arc. Honestly it's only liked because of nostalgia, if Tim was character that had been around for the past five years, people would realize how utterly ridiculous and terrible this take is. Unfortunately he won't leave cause it is popular and if tynion himself gets more popular his take might bleed into other books. Which sucks cause he clearly hates Batman but loves the fsmily. Having Tim be better at prep and smarter than Bruce completely ruins the point of batman. Tynion is by far the worst Batman writer writing right now and the worst worst there's been for a while. What a shit.

@entropy_aegis: k couldn't agree more this was the worst Tec and tynion issue yet. It sucks cause I don't get why people like this book so much. Obviously it's their right, but all the positive things people say is just nostalgia based. He's absolutely trashing Bruce and his capabilities with this book. Of other writers start picking up his tendencies then Bruce will be useless. Right now it is just tynion so who cares but if it becomes wider, why is Bruce on the league and not Tim? Tyniok and Tec are the biggest pokes of gsrbsgr to touch the Batman mythos in a long long time. This fan wanker needs to go yesterday

And in the end...just like i've said multiple times...despite all the excuses you guys make...it all comes down to this...for some of you, Detective Comics isn't bad because of characterization, or showings, or story-telling...its bad for some of you, because Batman is portrayed as being less capable than you think or would like to think that he is...that, and the fact that many of you like other bat-family members that don't even get to appear on this book and often get overlooked...well, that's just too bad...read other books with those characters that you guys like more, or books where Batman is portrayed as capable as he is on your own head-cannon.

I like Tim Drake, and even tho i'm not a huge fan of him, im sure that any Tim Drake fan is delighted by this issue...just like you would be, if it was about Batman...

And its very telling why some you have tolerated Tom King's Batman for so long...a writter that clearly doesn't get Batman, or Catwoman, or Bane, the dialgue is beyond retarted, he can't even write a half-decent story with these characters that looks realistic enough, its worse than fan-fic, and yet you like it, because Batman is front and center and hes as capable as you like him to be...

Anyway, feel free to stop reading Tec' at anytime you want, me and about 50.000 other people will continue reading it because it features the bat-family characters that we like the most, and has a better Batman that Tom King could ever hope to write.

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#709 Edited by JamesWayne (270 posts) - - Show Bio

@bat_girl_cc: the criticisms I have with Tec go beyond just Bruce. Tynion exaggerates every single member of the bstfamily when it's their turn to shine, and tells repetitive stories. Consistently. As for king, I know hos book isn't good, I've criticized it too, and I stick with it yeah cause it focuses on batman. But he isn't capable AT ALL in that book. He can't think or fight. He's just a brick. I've stuck with it cause I like the idea of a possible marriage that's it honestly. And I'll probably be dropping that too after the 2 part superman guest star. And it's not head cannon show me consistent scenarios where tim has been shown to be smarter than Bruce in the past. Potential, yes. On par, yes. But smarter AND better with prep to the point where adult Tim makes a fool of DOOMSDAY without needing prep? please. Tynion is just making his favorite character shine A LOT. Also when has Shiva ever bodied Bruce to that extent? They've always been closer, with Shiva being better. Bruce isn't the only criticism, I've mentioned a few above, I could name others. He is a consistent one, and you can't say head cannon when that's never been shown in the past. One writer does not make it so. And in terms of the sales numbers..... all bat books starring or featuring Batman sell. They drop s bit, but kings Batman saw a bump due to the marriage, it was falling before and tynion saw a bump due to Tim he was falling before too. But, and this is a criticism for all rebirth, nostalgia can only get you so far.

Also comparing tynion and kings takes in Batman is like comparing marvel events, both are terrible, it's just varying degrees of terrible

I am going to be dropping the book again, with Batman soon to follow, but I'll still follow the events of the books cause of like to know what is happening with my favorite character. Imo tynion could have told his stories differently? Done 2 issue arcs for characters without needing 5 to 6 of the same thing over and over and shown them being smart or bad was with out direct Batman comparisons.

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#710 Posted by lvenger (33023 posts) - - Show Bio

Just realised how overpowered and wanked Tynion's Tim was against Doomsday. Going back to the start of Rebirth, when Doomsday showed up in Action Comics during the Path of Doom storyline, Lex Luthor, a man with a multi billion dollar company, has access to cutting edge technology and resources, has been stated to be the smartest man in the world and has a suit of power armour powered by a Mother Box was unable to harm Doomsday and last longer than a minute in a fight against him. Yet two versions of Tim who had been imprisoned for weeks/months were able to damage him with their tech? There's a word to describe it that's not allowed so I'll have to abbreviate it to BS.

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#711 Posted by JamesWayne (270 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: tynions Tim has always been overwanked. It's what happens when writers are able to write their favorite characters and they don't restrain themselves. What's frustrating here is that a, he's once again comparing Tim and Bruce in terms if intelligence, and b, he's using OTHER CHARACTERS rogues, in this case one of the most unbeatable foes freaking superman, who also has a genius level intellect , has ever fought to show just how cool Tim is. It's kind of like how'd you die superman? Look, Tim did it in two seconds without even being hit. Kryptonite bullets cause that would work against doomsday to that extent for sure.

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#712 Posted by entropy_aegis (19089 posts) - - Show Bio

@jameswayne: Johns started this non sense of making Tim a Bruce Wayne clone. He introduced this gun toting thug in his TT. This Tim is an automatic failure in my eyes for being the creation of a guy who writes a shit Batman. Kinda fitting though that he shows up in Tynion's work though.

@bat_girl_cc: Um Tec is bad precisely due to story telling and showings. When the writer resorts to hacking every 2 seconds and uses the same 5 tropes as well as writes characters as the sum of cliches then that book is bad. With the possible exception of Kate not one character in this book is fully realized. They're just some traits hamfisted together with certain traits deliberately exagerrated to differentiate the characters. Whatever King's faults Catwoman and Bane atleast were not cliches.

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#713 Posted by Rurgandy (472 posts) - - Show Bio

Most of Rebirth is fanwank. Detective Comics has been a fanwank from the beginning, and RHATO gets circlejerked because it abandons anything resembling plot, conflict, or development in favor of Tumblr fanservice.

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#714 Edited by entropy_aegis (19089 posts) - - Show Bio

https://www.newsarama.com/36951-miller-king-tynion-more-talk-75-years-of-batman.html#undefined.uxfs

Sorry guys, on mobile so I couldn't post this link properly but this is an interview featuring King,Murphy,Tynion,Miller and Tony Patrick.

There was interesting stuff about their thought process and how they approach stuff but two things stood out to me negatively.

First is Tom King, I dunno but the more I go through his interviews the more clueless and pretentious he comes across. Around the 30 minute arc Frank Miller talks about Superman but King cuts in to diss Supes. I thought it was a joke at first but he kept pressing on and on rather seriously and then Frank Miller of all people folks has to hush him and defend Supes as a great character. This is an eye opener for fanboys who want King on Superman. I think King in unfit to write major mainstream superheroes at this point in his career. They should keep chucking Visions and Omega Mens at him because his Batman has amply demonstrated that. Also his attitude towards Batman is so defeatest, multiple times before and in this interview he says that he cant contribute anything new to Batman. How can a writer say those words so brazenly and keep his job is beyond me. A writer disliking a character is fine with me if their reasons add up. Priest for instance said that he disliked Nightwing but thats because he wasn't a fan of the stagnant nature of the role and went on to praise Grayson. King just goes on as if Superman as a concept itself is fundamentally shitty.

Now the second problem is all those Robin jokes during the first 10 minutes(and more from time to time throughout the interview).

These guys just looked like clowns to me when you consider how their own pets such as Carrie, Duke and Gotham Girl are non entities compared to Dick,Jason,Tim and Damian. The more they joked the more my butthurt sense tingled. Only Tynion seemed uncomfortable( obviously because he's a Tim fan). Tony Patrick(writer of Duke's book) was having a good laugh until Miller flipped the table and dismissed Duke as cannon fodder, Miller might as well have whipped him. Point is dont joke if you cant handle being on the end of one and right now neither the Duke lovers which was basically half this panel or a Carrie lover have the right to joke about Robins especially seeing how personal Carrie is to Frank and Duke is to Patrick and Murphy based on their own admissions.

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#715 Posted by Morpheus_ (31450 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: It defies understanding that anyone could read King's Batman and think of him as a potentially good writer for Superman based on that work alone. Even King's remarkably high points are too esoteric and bleak to match what the character stands for.

Frank Miller interjecting to defend Superman is hilarious. Fair play for Miller.

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#716 Edited by entropy_aegis (19089 posts) - - Show Bio

@morpheus_: When you have the tag of "hotshot" creator then naturally fans are gonna want you to write their character. Some will even be convinced that he's writing gold because they've convinced themselves that everything written by such creators is gold. Its how the world ended up with the Loeb and Bendis of the last 10 years.

Overall I'm starting to understand why fans of other DC characters resent Batman. The smugness here was rather visible to me, ironically enough Miller came across as the most humble (minus the overused Robin digs).

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#717 Posted by OrangeBat (856 posts) - - Show Bio

@morpheus_ said:

@entropy_aegis: It defies understanding that anyone could read King's Batman and think of him as a potentially good writer for Superman based on that work alone. Even King's remarkably high points are too esoteric and bleak to match what the character stands for.

Frank Miller interjecting to defend Superman is hilarious. Fair play for Miller.

Hey, Miller does genuinely love Superman. I can say that much.

King just came across as a complete tool in that interview, though. I don't know the man, so maybe this is just a one-off thing, but he seemed kind of...unpleasant.

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#718 Posted by entropy_aegis (19089 posts) - - Show Bio

Had Miller not stopped him he'd have dug himself even deeper. He should thank Frank.

He's writing Superman in December,we'll see where he stands soon enough.

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#719 Edited by Saren (27566 posts) - - Show Bio

There are brief moments in King's Batman that I actually do like. I liked the concept of an unspoken, suppressed suicidal ideation between Bane and Batman. It's just that every time King has a good idea, he flogs it until you can't stand it anymore. The whole "Mother-Mommy" issue comes to mind.

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His Mister Miracle is alright. The guy can't write fight scenes for shit, though. That final battle with Bane was very anti-climactic, as was the culmination of The War of Jokes and Riddles. I'd much rather see how someone like Hickman wrote Superman.

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#720 Posted by Morpheus_ (31450 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: I think Loeb and Bendis are a little different because both had talent that abandoned them at some point in their career, for various reasons. But in spite of it, they kept on working consistently because their books had a very specific advantage: they almost always sell well. Neither DC nor Marvel (all the more applicable for Marvel currently) care much about the quality of their product as long as reviews are not abysmal and sales don't dip. King sells, but hey. It's the flagship Batman title, it'd be difficult not to. And if people talk a lot about how great something is, then even more others will start believing that it actually is.

I never got the impression that Miller is not humble, just that he's too vocal over certain matters.

@saren said:

I'd much rather see how someone like Hickman wrote Superman.

That'd be pretty great. He clearly enjoyed Hyperion and even the Sun God pastiche was nicely done.

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#721 Posted by entropy_aegis (19089 posts) - - Show Bio

@morpheus_: King on Batman seems like a sales man more than a writer, oh look Catwoman just murdered 200 people, oh look Batman and Bane will have a battle that will leave one of them dead, oh look Watchmen connections, oh look Bruce is proposing to Selina, oh look epic War in Gotham involving so many different villains, oh look Batman did something, oh look now you get Selina's answer.

I wouldn't even mind these stunts if they actually panned out but the murder mystery flopped and was shifted to Holly, Bane got his own series announced before King could wrap his arc and then no one died, he did nothing with the Pirate mask, the so called War had no actual fighting, the secret was blown out of proportion. Its only with the marriage where he's succeeding.

@saren:Oh definitely, the opening pages of the first issue of I am Suicide with Bane reliving his childhood were also great but he just keeps phoning it in, his execution is terrible.

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#722 Edited by Black_Arrow (9328 posts) - - Show Bio

King since the begining has said that he can't contribute anything new to Batman, what's funny is that if he actually tried to tell a good story focusing in the execution of his ideas, he could contribute plenty to Batman. Some of the ideas he brings up on his Batman run are very interesting but all of them are brought down by the execution and by his click bait attitude with the title. It's really infuriating to see how he is handling the Batman title.

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#723 Posted by Eto (3250 posts) - - Show Bio

King since the begining has said that he can't contribute anything new to Batman, what's funny is that if he actually tried to tell a good story focusing in the execution of his ideas, he could contribute plenty to Batman. Some of the ideas he brings up on his Batman run are very interesting but all of them are brought down by the execution and by his click bait attitude with the title. It's really infuriating to see how he is handling the Batman title.

Wait did he really say this?

Man, that's just awful. How can he say this?

And yes, I agree with the rest of your post. The guy has had some interesting ideasbut the execution is time and time again poorly done. He's obviuosly talented (Mr.Miracle/Vision/upxoming SThing special etc.) But he just doesn't seem to fit the role of The Batman writer IMO.

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#724 Edited by Saren (27566 posts) - - Show Bio

I wonder if King is practicing self-awareness and know he's beating a dead horse. The symbolism here is too good.

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#725 Posted by entropy_aegis (19089 posts) - - Show Bio

Awful preview, this romance sucks donkey balls. Even insects having intercourse is more interesting than this boring and obtuse tripe.

Solicits also came out and its clear that King's book will be filler all the way up to 50. We've got Superman on for 2 issues then Wonder Woman and then likely Flash,GL and Cyborg at the least. The thought that the main Batman book will be engaging in filler BS for what appears to be 10 or more issues straight up pisses me off. Someone please kick him off now.

The solicits for the rest of the line are equally lackluster.

Humphries on Nightwing, I already miss Seeley.

Batgirl,BOP and Harley, still dont care.

White Knight, will judge after reading.

No Creature of the Night (I'm angry).

Signal, hard pass.

Detective is predictable and cliche as usual. Clayface is lapsing back to villainy.

Batwoman actually sound decent with Professor Pyg and a new writer on board. Beats the boring Coryana crap that Bennet has been force feeding fans.

No Bane Conquest either, wouldn't surprise me if it got cancelled and frankly I wont be too sorry.

Only The Shadow/Batman and Batman TMNT/2 sound appealing. Other than that I'll stick with Outlaws and Batman Beyond and give Batwoman a new shot maybe.

Time to say adios to the Bat books. I've never seen the line in a more dismal and uninspired state.

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#726 Posted by Eto (3250 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: No way. CreofN was my most anticipated book and now it's delayed?

Dammit

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#727 Edited by Bat_Girl_CC (6034 posts) - - Show Bio

Yikes, I think calling Tim an outright failure is a bit exagerrated lol.

But damn Tynion isn't doing these Tec characters any favors. I get that he wants to show why they're cool characters and they undoubtedly have been neglected but as I said to Lvenger in my private conversation with him I cant see a hint of O'Neal,Dixon,Puckett and Brian Miller in these versions of JPV,Tim,Cass and Steph and they're pushing Kate away from Rucka's version too. Even in the preview for Batwoman 8 Kate is hallucinating Bennet's Coryana under fear toxin, COME ON.

I'm legitimately curious to see what exactly forms the basis for Tynion's characterization for these characters. Right now I believe Tynion's base is

JPV=Knightquest

Cass=Fugitive/Murderer

Steph= War Games

Tim= Johns TT and New 52

I dont think he knows about these characters beyond that.

Actualy, Tynion has stated that he has read the entirity of Tim Drake's appearences ever...and since he's also a big fan of Cass and Steph, and since that they even combined have far less appearences than Tim Drake, its no stretch to think that he has also read all of their appearences as well...the point is, different writters view these characters differently, and throghout the years different writters have had slightly different interpretations of these characters, and he obvioulsy has his...as for Tynion being basing off New 52 Tim, thats clearly not the case, as he is slowly but surely retconing New 52 Tim into Pre-Flashpoint Tim piece by piece...

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#728 Posted by Bat_Girl_CC (6034 posts) - - Show Bio

Once Clayface's character-centric-arc that is coming next, is finished, you guys will have what you want, story-arcs with equal focus on all members of the team (including Batman), and no more spotlight for one specific character and/or overshadowing others.

I'm sure of this, i mean Tynion did stated he was going to do these charater-centric-arcs even before the first issue of his run came out...so...i'm pretty sure this was the plan all along...and once its over, he will write this team book as a team book.

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#729 Posted by entropy_aegis (19089 posts) - - Show Bio

The basis for everything Tynion does is rooted in the early 2000's era and for JPV in the Knightfall era. Nothing before or after seems to hold much interest for him far as I can see. Its the same thing as Judd Winick on Jason Todd, I'd bet he never read any Jason story excluding DITF. So far the characterization minus Kate pretty much revolves around the greatest hits of these characters.

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#730 Posted by entropy_aegis (19089 posts) - - Show Bio

@eto: There's a lot of oddities in those solicits, we've got:

New creative teams on certain books but lack of announcements leads one to believe that they are not permanent.

No Young Animal books including the crossover one shots with DCU characters.

No Creature of the Night or Conquest

And speaking of solicits I just love how Superman writers are making sense of Batman stories now. That's how far we have fallen . Case in point the Batman of Tomorrow. Tynion's reasons for Oz kidnapping Tim are lame and unsatisfactory something to do with " being so loved" chuckles. But the premise of Super Sons of Tomorrow alones gives Oz strong reasons to kidnap Tim. In short Tomasi just bailed Tynion.

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#731 Posted by Eto (3250 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: Ooh yeah Superman AC are killing it right now.

Got my SuperSons vol. 1 TPB yesterday.

Can't wait to read it.

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#732 Posted by lvenger (33023 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow Batman #33 was incredibly bad. Batman handing Catwoman a shotgun to kill a horse, Dick not knowing about all the animals in the Batcave, Batman breaking a lockdown established by the Justice League just to go tell Talia he's marrying Selina, Catwoman beating up that guard, Damian looking like he's 16 rather than 13 and Talia looking weird. This issue was almost as bad as the last one, it's as if King believes in that thing he said about not being able to do anything new with Batman.

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#733 Edited by All-Father (3064 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

How about that reaction?

For some reason Batman is going after Talia.

For those of you asking about Damiens reaction, it was that and at the end of the issue he cried.

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#734 Edited by entropy_aegis (19089 posts) - - Show Bio

Batwoman 8 was decent but this arc is only decent because its pretty much ripping off the Batman/Scarecrow sections of Arkham Asylum and pasting them on Batwoman.

Nightwing, damn I'll REALLY miss Seeley, Raptor is just so cool but I'm tired of people hitting Dick.

Drowned was poor, Abnett tried his best unlike Humphries but this concept was so bad and broken that I dont think even Alan Moore could have saved it.

And ofcourse finally Batman.

So from where should I start tearing this a new one, UGH.

Batman and Catwoman marching across a desert on a horse, then they kill horse with a shot gun wearing Zack Snyder's Bat suit, its like this whole scene was designed to piss me off. I mean who rides a horse across a desert? dont we have f*cking camels for that? and why does Batman with all his resources and vehicles even bother? UGH

King's lack of sensitivity was also fully on display here, he pokes fun at Jason fans by having him lose to Ace and at people who complain about his Bat/Cat dialogue. He's going full hack now.

Damian cries, completely OOC and frankly I dont need to waste my time proving why he shouldn't have cried because even a wiki research on Damian alone would suffice. Based on Robin War and Grayson I thought King atleast got Damian but boy was I wrong.

Jason Todd looked like a moron and tool when he blamed Duke and then got served by Duke's retort.

JL hires a guard to keep out armies and super villains but he couldn't even handle Catwoman but then this Catwoman broke Bane's back, go figure.

Finally Talia, once again King invents fake history. Talia's holed up somewhere randomly, King doesn't bother with how Gleason left her in Robin: Son of Batman or even Snyder in Dark Days the Casting.

Oh and Talia has a harem of girls and dudes. Cause making Selina, Harley and Ivy Bisexual wasn't enough, now Talia is Bi and Harper Row is Bi, Kate ofcourse is Lesbian. At this rate Babs will be the only straight female in all of Gotham/Batfamily, only a matter of time before Steph and Cass also come out as Bi too.

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#735 Posted by All-Father (3064 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: #33 is probably the worst Batman issue, that I agree with you

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#736 Posted by lvenger (33023 posts) - - Show Bio

Wait a load of female Bat characters are being made bi? What's the point of that?

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#737 Posted by All-Father (3064 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: There is no point to it, It's Tom king being Tom king

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#738 Posted by entropy_aegis (19089 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: I forgot Nocturna, you can add her to the list too.

I'm getting sick of this now, straight chicks are a minority in the Batverse, can you believe that?

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#739 Posted by lvenger (33023 posts) - - Show Bio

@all-father: True, there is a lot of pointless stuff King has put in his run.

@entropy_aegis Don't know who that is but wow that is a lot of bi chicks in the Bat family. There's no point to changing their sexuality and in the case of Ivy and Harley, it's pure fan service.

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#740 Posted by All-Father (3064 posts) - - Show Bio

Ignoring the fact that the issue is extremely bad, I want to claw my eyes out every time either of the couple say Cat or Bat.

King needs to be taken off Batman ASAP

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#741 Edited by entropy_aegis (19089 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: The problem is that one entitled fan who thinks because one writer did something no matter how terrible or forgettable when it comes to race or sexuality it automatically becomes a part of the characters history.

Nocturna being Bi was canonized in a terrible Batwoman run that no Batwoman fan wants to remember but you can bet that the next time she shows up and romances Bruce that entitled fanboy will make a fuss.

There are fans out there legit convinced that that Selina is Latina cause some writer inserted it somewhere in an ocean of comics. Never mind that after COIE her parentage, backstory etc have all been in a constant flux. There's more evidence of her having Italian ancestry than Cuban but the Twitter SJW doesn't care. Same goes for her sexuality,Valentine literally backed off big time after Selina kissed Eiko during a moment of emotional vulnerability. Even she ditched that angle immediately.

Dont even want to start harping about Dick's "Romani" ancestry lol.

Since we're talking about these topics I'm surprised that there's no fuss over Diana getting raped over in JL. I mean yikes, Hitch did what Mark Millar only dreamed of.

FYI Nocturna was a Pre Crisis Batman love interest who was simultaneously in a love triangle with Batman and her foster brother as well as a custody battle with Bruce over Jason Todd which she actually did win lol.

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#742 Edited by JamesWayne (270 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: dammit! I was really hoping the superman stuff would be great. Ive less confidence now. Hopefully he doesnt hate ww too cause shes teaming uo in january. Bomestly i might just drop the book and only pick those issues up at this point. It would be the dirst time in YEARS i havent read a main bat book (bstman or tec). But they are both ssssooooo bad at this point. One uses his ideas to do whatever the hell he wants whether it makes sense for the chsrsctdr or not. And sometimes like you said the ideas are great but even then he screws it up. Then yku have the guy who uses bruce to wank and upscale his characters to the point where a freaking robin is outsmarting jorel the most intelligent man on kryoton and doomsday the guy eho physically killed superman. I do really enjoy rhato though. And it is by LOBDELL. Batman is written by arguably todays best comic writer, tec is written by a supposed bat fan extraordonaire and they both SUCK. But freaking lobdell blows them out of the water with imo one of the best books in rebirth. What the hell happened? Shit like this is why i got into IMAGE.

Dont even get me started on msrvel. Bringing back the og wolverine.....only to not use him in anything until at least February. Legacy....yeah right.

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#743 Posted by JamesWayne (270 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: didnt tynion state in the recent issue of tec thst he kidnapped tim because tim had the potential to actually deduce what was going on? Kind of like a worlds greatest detective shkuld be able to do, if anyone could.

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#744 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (3848 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: The problem is that one entitled fan who thinks because one writer did something no matter how terrible or forgettable when it comes to race or sexuality it automatically becomes a part of the characters history.

Nocturna being Bi was canonized in a terrible Batwoman run that no Batwoman fan wants to remember but you can bet that the next time she shows up and romances Bruce that entitled fanboy will make a fuss.

There are fans out there legit convinced that that Selina is Latina cause some writer inserted it somewhere in an ocean of comics. Never mind that after COIE her parentage, backstory etc have all been in a constant flux. There's more evidence of her having Italian ancestry than Cuban but the Twitter SJW doesn't care. Same goes for her sexuality,Valentine literally backed off big time after Selina kissed Eiko during a moment of emotional vulnerability. Even she ditched that angle immediately.

Dont even want to start harping about Dick's "Romani" ancestry lol.

Since we're talking about these topics I'm surprised that there's no fuss over Diana getting raped over in JL. I mean yikes, Hitch did what Mark Millar only dreamed of.

FYI Nocturna was a Pre Crisis Batman love interest who was simultaneously in a love triangle with Batman and her foster brother as well as a custody battle with Bruce over Jason Todd which she actually did win lol.

Raped by whom?

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#745 Edited by AssassinB (21 posts) - - Show Bio

@all-father: I hear you man, I hear you..

Al: He proposed to miss Kyle...

Robin 1: What?

Al: She has accepted

Robin 2: You say he proposed?

Al: They are going to wed.

Robin 3: And she said yes?

Bruce: Im going to marry!!

Robin 4: Are you going to marry?

Selina: Hi, Bat.

Bruce: Hi, Cat.

Selina: I'm happy you going to marry me Bat!

Bruce: I'm happy to get wed Cat!

Selina: Oh, Bat!!

Bruce: Oh, Cat!!

Tom King: Cat and Bat happy or crazy? don't miss my next 10000000 issues about how they look at each other!!!! Oh, and Gotham Girl and Gotham Groom are going to the wedding!!!

Me: "PUTS A SHOTGUN ON HEAD" "BOOM"

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#746 Edited by Saren (27566 posts) - - Show Bio

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642: Some vague force called "the darkness" impregnated Diana with her future son Hunter. It was a very bad arc and I don't know why anyone lets Bryan Hitch write things anymore.

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#747 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (3848 posts) - - Show Bio

@saren said:

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642: Some vague force called "the darkness" impregnated Diana with her future son Hunter. It was a very bad arc and I don't know why anyone lets Bryan Hitch write things anymore.

Ah i see.......wow.... thanks for the info

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#748 Posted by Eto (3250 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: Seeley on Nightwing was so great. Why did him and Humphries switch though? Lol

Seems weird because both were doing a fantastic job imo.

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#749 Posted by Eto (3250 posts) - - Show Bio

@all-father: terrible issue indeed.

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#750 Posted by Unclepulky (2 posts) - - Show Bio

@bat_girl_cc : Not too sure where you got this idea, but it appears to be false. Even if it wasn't, Luke still hasn't gotten his own arc.

In an interview with Batman Universe, link below, when asked about the rumors that Bruce will adopt Cass again, he said this:

"That was a very powerful moment in Pre-Flashpoint continuity. Because it happened after an era where Cassandra was already fading out of the universe it wasn’t explored. It was an acknowledgment to the fans of the importance of Cassandra while she was becoming less important. I don’t want to fall into that same trap. It is very important to me to establish firmly how important Bruce is to Cassandra and Cassandra is to Bruce. That is something I am very eager to explore upcoming this spring in particular in “Detective Comics”.

It looks like the arc after Fall of the Batmen is going to be a Cass arc, centered on her relationship with Bruce and possibly leading to the big moment. I really wish it could just be Spring already.

http://thebatmanuniverse.net/detective-comics-76/

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