The Problem wasn't The Tone....

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#1 Posted by SaintWildcard (21888 posts) - - Show Bio

So it feels like all the actors and directors are all pretty much apologizing for the tone in BvS and really wanna hammer in that the upcoming movies will be fun fun FUN! The problem with the movie wasn't the tone, and it's annoying to hear that's what people point to. Recently found this write up

YOu know, the problem with BvS wasn't the lack of humor. Sure it wouldn't have hurt and even improve the quality of the film a bit, but at the end of the day the film was schizophrenic mess. Terrio and Affleck paid special attention to the Batman aspect, but everything else was sloppy. As someone who actually loved MoS and wanted this to continue his ongoing journey from Farmboy to Icon, this film even failed to make me care when they *redacted* him at the end. Not to mention the god awful casting and acting choices of Jesse Eisenberg. Who would have made a better riddler or had they stuck to what he was originally meant to be, Jimmy Olsen. I don't care what people say, this movie need to be SUperman featuring Batman, not 50/50, and not the other way around. Why? Because the entire story revolves around Superman but every character that ties into his story aside from Batman was badly handled. Martha was crammed in, Lois hunting for some stupid bullet instead of developing her relationship with Clark or atleast having him by his side as he fights public onslaught, Perry Black was reduced to a one note hardass and Senetor Finch got no development as to her purpose in the movie (it was much better explained why she doesn't help Lex in the prequel comic).

So yeah, the problem wasn't the lack of humor IMO. But rather the complete mishandling of the Superman in a modern world storyline and every other character except Batman.

And he later on replied to someone who said that the movie needed to focus 50/50 on Batman because it's based on TDKR. His response was

2 counter arguments for that

1)It's based on more story lines about Superman. Origin once he dawns the cape full time, Luthor Man of Steel and Death of Superman.

2)There were more characters tied to Superman than there were Batman characters. You had Lois, Martha, Perry Black, Sen. Finch, General Dude from MoS,Lex

And a wrap up on his thoughts

You know, had this movie been great, and people loved it, I wouldn't be as mad if they focused heavily on Batman and very little on Superman..... no, I'd still be pissed, but I'd jsut have to take it like a man. But that isn't the case now is it? All we hear in reviews is how great Batman. BUt no one has had the clear vision to see that the problem was the movies desire to focus on Batman, because as they say "he was the best part". It could just be the jaded view of a Superman fan, but that's my two cents.Here's hoping that the Ultimate cut is better

It's like he saw into my brain and wrote everything I thought

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#2 Posted by AkshSarpanch (3573 posts) - - Show Bio

Agreed. The problem is pacing and mess. But pacing was real problem.

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#3 Posted by Petey_is_Spidey (11736 posts) - - Show Bio

Agreed. The problem is pacing and mess. But pacing was real problem.

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#4 Posted by Spambot (9470 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel like the problem wasn't just one thing in particular, it was a bunch of things which together weighed down the movie. Honestly, there's like 6-7 things which really rubbed me the wrong way and I won't go into them all since most of them have been covered plenty of times but what turned me off right from the start was the constant reliance on extreme close ups in scenes and filming much of the movie as though it were a pseudo horror film. It was very glum since it felt like we were rehashing the end of MoS over and over again and having to try and establish Superman's role in the world in a post MoS world. It just weighed the movie down imo and I have no idea at all why with all of this going on Superman's focus was on a vigilante in Gotham who branded 1 or 2 criminals. It just made no sense.

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#5 Posted by Petey_is_Spidey (11736 posts) - - Show Bio

Please WB, for the love of God, do not bend your back just to pander to "fans".

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#6 Posted by Ready_4_Madness (17244 posts) - - Show Bio

Anyone who says the tone was the problem wasn't paying attention.

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#7 Posted by Petey_is_Spidey (11736 posts) - - Show Bio

Anyone who says the tone was the problem wasn't paying attention.

Shhh, don't tell them that. Then they'll think you're insulting their intelligence.

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#9 Posted by kgb725 (19576 posts) - - Show Bio

DC shouldn't have tried to compete with Marvel by jumping into the deep end with its grittiness and shoehorn everything in all at once. They gave Snyder too much power in such a short amount of time it's not a surprise the DCEU is getting mixed views on their films

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#10 Posted by Petey_is_Spidey (11736 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725 said:

DC shouldn't have tried to compete with Marvel by jumping into the deep end with its grittiness and shoehorn everything in all at once. They gave Snyder too much power in such a short amount of time it's not a surprise the DCEU is getting mixed views on their films

No, the movie needs to be even DARKER, and even GRITTIER. We need MORE BROODING SUPERMAN!!!! AND ANGRY BATFLECK!!!

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Yes! Anger, bitterness! This is MY STYLE AND KIND OF FILM!!

BRING ON THE BROODING AQUAMAN!!!!!

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NO SMILING ALLOWED! TAKE THAT TO MARVEL! Here, there's only stern faces and frowning!! Or no emotions at all if you have to!!!

This is all just a joke. Please, for the love of God don't take this seriously.

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#11 Posted by inAflAsh (10 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought Batman's voice, along with his costume, was one of the better aspects of the film. But there wasn't enough screen time of Affleck in costume for it to be savored. The rest of the movie, for the most part at least, had me cringing in my seat. Kept saying to myself "I'm all about adaptations but are you kidding me with THIS?!"

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#12 Posted by comicfan42 (8 posts) - - Show Bio

The tone is pointed to as a problem because the dark, gritty tone is the only thing the movie commits to fully. Everything else is scattershot and poorly planned out. Characters lack clear motivation/goals, the dialogue is silly, the pacing is random at best, and the narrative is pointlessly complicated. When Nolan made his Batman trilogy he grounded the character and created a darker atmosphere for movie Batman, but there was meaning behind it. It wasn't gritty for no reason. B v S is gritty because WB made a lot of money off the Nolan franchise and only took "be serious" from those movies as a lesson.

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#13 Posted by silkyballfro94 (8688 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought tone was sort of a problem with Superman. I'm not one of those people who are against the grit or seriousness in MoS or in this movie. In fact, I really liked MoS. But Superman was just kinda not there in this movie. For example, when he walked in the hearing on Capital hill. He didn't even say anything. He could've said something. At least a hello everyone. I want to see more smiles and positivity in Superman.

But yeah tone wasn't the problem with the movie. It was just everywhere at times. The pacing. And it seems like things were cut out. Maybe the rated R version will be better? Who knows. But I want to watch it to find out.

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#14 Posted by SaintWildcard (21888 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought tone was sort of a problem with Superman. I'm not one of those people who are against the grit or seriousness in MoS or in this movie. In fact, I really liked MoS. But Superman was just kinda not there in this movie. For example, when he walked in the hearing on Capital hill. He didn't even say anything. He could've said something. At least a hello everyone. I want to see more smiles and positivity in Superman.

But yeah tone wasn't the problem with the movie. It was just everywhere at times. The pacing. And it seems like things were cut out. Maybe the rated R version will be better? Who knows. But I want to watch it to find out.

I know right? LIke, I expected to see Martha and Clark really talk about the situation, but literately they posted that entire scene online..... HE DOESN"T SAY A GODDAMN WORD! IT WAS IN AN OUT WITH SUPERMAN!.... and not in a good way. We get close to not context for any character on Superman's side of the story, but they took their sweet ass time with Superman. And I'm not saying htis movie should be entirely humorless with Superman, like I'd like to see Clark really connect with some of the people he saved or maybe he saves a kid, and while the kid is happy a parent snatches the child away form Superman because they are afraid. I swear to god, Lex and Zod's body had more chemistry than Lois and Clark. Unless those 30 minutes focus on Superman's side of the story and all his characters, I don't see how.

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#15 Posted by Gracetrack (4684 posts) - - Show Bio

Heh, I must be the only one who didn't have a problem with the movie's pacing. Oh well.

I am glad to hear they are going to lighten things up a bit.

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#16 Posted by kasino (2061 posts) - - Show Bio

Please don't change WB. Not only will they continue to watch, your movies will be in the Pop Culture lore. You're just two movies deep being compared to the competitions best of 12.

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#17 Edited by UltimateSMfan (2377 posts) - - Show Bio

@saintwildcard: I've been sad about this too. I mean, thematically it's all there, characteristically too. This guys is Superman responding to this world jump on his throat and him just wanting to do what's right but damn it he's portrayed so passively!!!!!!!! Portrayed minimalistically just reacting to the world reacting to him. The court room scene was my most anticipated thing all the way back from the comic con trailer, i wanted and expected Superman to tell them what he stood for, what he thought of the situation, his point of view from his mouth. I mean he's been Superman for almost two years couldn't they have granted us that?! But he's kept silent. It seems Clark has 10 lines to every one word Superman has in this movie, Jesus Christ that irks me so much! That's why i even agree with that article posted on this forum page, 'Zack Snyder doesn't hate superman and bvs proves it' it's very insightful but damn it people will be more inclined to think that way if Superman actually opened his mouth and voiced his ideals, might've made that bombing scene about 10 times more shocking then it already was if Superman's naive faith in humanity was literally blown up in his face just after he claimed what it means to him.

@akshsarpanch said:

Agreed. The problem is pacing and mess. But pacing was real problem.

This.

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#18 Edited by TheNaughtyTitan (10001 posts) - - Show Bio

The pacing of the movie was a mess and not only did a lot of scenes feel out of place, but a large portion of them were poorly done. It just ended up feeling so inorganic and a chore to pay attention to.

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#19 Posted by SaintWildcard (21888 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatesmfan: Yeah, aside from dying, Clark had no moment in this movie to talk or give a speech. Something to inspire or atleast get people to see his side of the story.

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#20 Posted by saint_samantha (1285 posts) - - Show Bio

@saintwildcard: what exactly were you hoping to see from Superman in this film? What sort of development were you looking for that weren't delivered?

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#21 Posted by silent_bomber (4935 posts) - - Show Bio
@spambot said:

the problem wasn't just one thing in particular, it was a bunch of things which together weighed down the movie.

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#22 Edited by SaintWildcard (21888 posts) - - Show Bio

@saint_samantha said:

@saintwildcard: what exactly were you hoping to see from Superman in this film? What sort of development were you looking for that weren't delivered?

I just don't think you're seeing it from a Superman fans point of view. You seem to be fine with it being touch and go with Superman, but for us, we needed to see the progression and his ongoing struggle against the slings and arrows of humanity. The bones where there, but they didn't take their time and Clark didn't get a chance to speak for most of the scenes he was in. Batman's storyline was fleshed out, linear and focused, and he on average had the longer scenes with tons of memorable conversations. I was expecting Clark to say something to either Martha or the Senate, he,,, said,,,, nothing! We didn't get to see both sides of him saving people, like those who love him but those who fear him still not trusting him even though he saved them. Clark and Lois's relationship was thrown under the bus and not developed at all. Instead they gave her a story line of her hunting for a bullet. Perry Black and the DP were pretty pointless. and PB was a one note hard ass. They should have included everything from the prequel comics, into this movie.

EDIT- An other thing we didn't get to see, is Clark's regret over what happened in MoS or maybe the fact that he killed Zod. THey should have switched out on Bruce dream sequence for that. Heck, I heard that Shannon said he was in one scene with Clark. I would have assumed that is what it was gonna be. One other thing they could have done was, show that Lex worked heavily on rebuilding Metropolis. When I heard about the party scene, I assumed that was what it was gonna be about. A fundraiser to rebuild the city or help it.

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#23 Edited by UltimateSMfan (2377 posts) - - Show Bio

@saintwildcard: You know what the biggest joke is, the topic at the top of this forum currently is of the possible leaked plot description that was circling the net over a year ago, i just commented on it and was thinking, all that we wanted, what you wrote in your previous response was almost all there. The plot's a little bloated but i think it was pretty awesome, t'was the reason i was smugly confident about the film blowing us away. Give it a read, it might make you feel better or make you rage out like me at the fact that it could've been possibly the original story. Don't be too quick to deem it a fake though, some plot points are eerily close to the actual movie and i remember certain things being shot that matched that plot as well.

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#24 Posted by christianrapper (6406 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725: I think the problem was forcing Snyder to make a justice league light story. I don't Snyder all. It's the studio. You can tell when a studio interferes. You get a jumbled mess.

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#25 Posted by SaintWildcard (21888 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725: I think the problem was forcing Snyder to make a justice league light story. I don't Snyder all. It's the studio. You can tell when a studio interferes. You get a jumbled mess.

The movie was originally written 4 hours long (MoS was gonna be 3.5 hours long), so maybe that's what happened. They cut the scenes, but when they do that the movie suffers. It be different if it was written to be only 2.5 hours long. And while I agree that WB gets some of the blame, I still blame Snyder for getting artsy with Luthor, but stuck so close to the TDKR Batman.

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#26 Posted by christianrapper (6406 posts) - - Show Bio

Luthor wasn't that bad to me. He got bats and supes to fight. My problem was that this movie was a jumbled mess.

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