Hey Zach; How do you possibly make the biggest movie of all time fail?

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#151 Posted by Petey_is_Spidey (11697 posts) - - Show Bio

@jgames said:

To be fair Warner Bro is also to blame for trying to put in the Justice League, force him to cut thirty minute of the movie which is very obvious from the odd transition and cuts in the movie. If the film would had taken out Dawn of justice and focus more on Superman and how he see the good in people, or at the very least get rid of the bullet sub plot with Louis. They did a good job developing Batman, just not Superman. This could had been a more well received film if it was more focused, also take away doomsday for one of Darkside general, and let the audience know he working for Darkside to make his motive more clear.

That at least what I think should had happened. Also again I think Zack Snyder can make a good movie, and hopefully both him and WB learn from the constructive criticism.

i would rather they had kept doomsday and get rid of the bvs element of the story. this could have been a pretty good superman film on it's own.

Exactly. If the movie was just "Dawn of Justice" or maybe "World's Finest: Dawn of Justice" it would have improved. I don't think they should have just completely thew out the BvS aspect, 'cause it did provide for a good story. They should have just marketed it less.

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#152 Posted by allend4bbt (76 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see BvS as a failure. It's made over $700 million in less than 2 weeks. It's being compared to Marvel movies understandably, but I'm not sure that's fair. It's done more than every Marvel movie aside from the two Avengers movies.(It will pass Captain American: WS - $714 million by the end of the the week/ possibly once the foreign numbers come in for yesterday). The Avengers movies had an advantage too. It brought together characters with their own fan base from solo movies(CA, Thor, Iron-man x2). It had 4 years of a cinematic universe going into it.

It's a new Batman being introduced and Wonder Woman was only minor role. Batman Begins only did $374 million world wide. Just because these are iconic characters, doesn't guarantee box office.

Avengers AOU was in theaters for 23 weeks and did 1.4 billion. I think BvS still has a shot at the 1 billion mark if it's in theaters for 20 more weeks. I also think that building this universe a little more with SS and WW will have a big effect on JL in 2017.

It's funny how all the doom and gloom being reported about the big BvS failure and how WB's is cutting back, only for them to add two more DC movies to the slate.

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#153 Posted by Kundelar (524 posts) - - Show Bio

Simple really. When there is so much hype behind something or so much expectation, if it comes short of that it appears to be a much big failure than if there were average expectations for it. For instance, Thor: The Dark World was a pretty mediocre movie. I liked it because I like Thor but in comparison to actual GOOD comic movies it was average. No one cared though because there was no above-average expectations. Take BvS which was imo, a pretty decent movie, and it appears to fail epicly simply because of all the pressure on it.

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#154 Edited by Petey_is_Spidey (11697 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see BvS as a failure. It's made over $700 million in less than 2 weeks. It's being compared to Marvel movies understandably, but I'm not sure that's fair. It's done more than every Marvel movie aside from the two Avengers movies.(It will pass Captain American: WS - $714 million by the end of the the week/ possibly once the foreign numbers come in for yesterday). The Avengers movies had an advantage too. It brought together characters with their own fan base from solo movies(CA, Thor, Iron-man x2). It had 4 years of a cinematic universe going into it.

It's a new Batman being introduced and Wonder Woman was only minor role. Batman Begins only did $374 million world wide. Just because these are iconic characters, doesn't guarantee box office.

Avengers AOU was in theaters for 23 weeks and did 1.4 billion. I think BvS still has a shot at the 1 billion mark if it's in theaters for 20 more weeks. I also think that building this universe a little more with SS and WW will have a big effect on JL in 2017.

It's funny how all the doom and gloom being reported about the big BvS failure and how WB's is cutting back, only for them to add two more DC movies to the slate.

Exactly. People thought I was crazy when I said that regardless of BvS success (unless its a huge failure, say, less than $1 billion) WB and DCEU are here for the long run.

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#155 Posted by from_beyond (962 posts) - - Show Bio

@allend4bbt said:

I don't see BvS as a failure. It's made over $700 million in less than 2 weeks. It's being compared to Marvel movies understandably, but I'm not sure that's fair. It's done more than every Marvel movie aside from the two Avengers movies.(It will pass Captain American: WS - $714 million by the end of the the week/ possibly once the foreign numbers come in for yesterday). The Avengers movies had an advantage too. It brought together characters with their own fan base from solo movies(CA, Thor, Iron-man x2). It had 4 years of a cinematic universe going into it.

It's a new Batman being introduced and Wonder Woman was only minor role. Batman Begins only did $374 million world wide. Just because these are iconic characters, doesn't guarantee box office.

Avengers AOU was in theaters for 23 weeks and did 1.4 billion. I think BvS still has a shot at the 1 billion mark if it's in theaters for 20 more weeks. I also think that building this universe a little more with SS and WW will have a big effect on JL in 2017.

It's funny how all the doom and gloom being reported about the big BvS failure and how WB's is cutting back, only for them to add two more DC movies to the slate.

Exactly. People thought I was crazy when I said that regardless of BvS success (unless its a huge failure, say, less than $1 billion) WB and DCEU are here for the long run.

DCEU will stay for the long run only if they start doing a better job than what they have been doing so far. And those who are claiming that it did $700 million in two weeks therefore it has a shot at billion are dreaming. There is no way this movie is going to make a billion at this point with the rate it is falling. The total gross for the first weekend was around $420 million while the second weekend it only grossed around $80 million. The steep fall happened despite NO competition. Unlike Avengers that had a more spread out world wide release, BVS has already opened in almost all major markets. Which market is the movie going to make money from now? Atlantis? The jungle book is coming out next week and it's going to steal a lot of screens and audience from BVS. This movie will be lucky to make $900 million, let alone a billion. The writing is on the wall. How can you not see it? This movie is a financial disappointment. Experts estimate that the movie needs to make between $800 to $930 millions just to break even. For the sake of DCU, pray that Snyder is kicked out and a talented director is brought on board who can make a movie that is popular with general audience so that DC characters can see better days.

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#156 Posted by Petey_is_Spidey (11697 posts) - - Show Bio

@petey_is_spidey said:
@allend4bbt said:

I don't see BvS as a failure. It's made over $700 million in less than 2 weeks. It's being compared to Marvel movies understandably, but I'm not sure that's fair. It's done more than every Marvel movie aside from the two Avengers movies.(It will pass Captain American: WS - $714 million by the end of the the week/ possibly once the foreign numbers come in for yesterday). The Avengers movies had an advantage too. It brought together characters with their own fan base from solo movies(CA, Thor, Iron-man x2). It had 4 years of a cinematic universe going into it.

It's a new Batman being introduced and Wonder Woman was only minor role. Batman Begins only did $374 million world wide. Just because these are iconic characters, doesn't guarantee box office.

Avengers AOU was in theaters for 23 weeks and did 1.4 billion. I think BvS still has a shot at the 1 billion mark if it's in theaters for 20 more weeks. I also think that building this universe a little more with SS and WW will have a big effect on JL in 2017.

It's funny how all the doom and gloom being reported about the big BvS failure and how WB's is cutting back, only for them to add two more DC movies to the slate.

Exactly. People thought I was crazy when I said that regardless of BvS success (unless its a huge failure, say, less than $1 billion) WB and DCEU are here for the long run.

DCEU will stay for the long run only if they start doing a better job than what they have been doing so far. And those who are claiming that it did $700 million in two weeks therefore it has a shot at billion are dreaming. There is no way this movie is going to make a billion at this point with the rate it is falling. The total gross for the first weekend was around $420 million while the second weekend it only grossed around $80 million. The steep fall happened despite NO competition. Unlike Avengers that had a more spread out world wide release, BVS has already opened in almost all major markets. Which market is the movie going to make money from now? Atlantis? The jungle book is coming out next week and it's going to steal a lot of screens and audience from BVS. This movie will be lucky to make $900 million, let alone a billion. The writing is on the wall. How can you not see it? This movie is a financial disappointment. Experts estimate that the movie needs to make between $800 to $930 millions just to break even. For the sake of DCU, pray that Snyder is kicked out and a talented director is brought on board who can make a movie that is popular with general audience so that DC characters can see better days.

It grossed at least north of $100 million this weekend. I can't find exact numbers at the moment, but if I remember correctly it started off the weekend at $510 million + Worldwide and finished with around $685 million. Plus, it only made around 38% of its money domestically so far, and if your number of $80 million is true, you're really saying it only made 63% of its weekend gross in America? No.

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#157 Posted by from_beyond (962 posts) - - Show Bio

@from_beyond said:
@petey_is_spidey said:
@allend4bbt said:

I don't see BvS as a failure. It's made over $700 million in less than 2 weeks. It's being compared to Marvel movies understandably, but I'm not sure that's fair. It's done more than every Marvel movie aside from the two Avengers movies.(It will pass Captain American: WS - $714 million by the end of the the week/ possibly once the foreign numbers come in for yesterday). The Avengers movies had an advantage too. It brought together characters with their own fan base from solo movies(CA, Thor, Iron-man x2). It had 4 years of a cinematic universe going into it.

It's a new Batman being introduced and Wonder Woman was only minor role. Batman Begins only did $374 million world wide. Just because these are iconic characters, doesn't guarantee box office.

Avengers AOU was in theaters for 23 weeks and did 1.4 billion. I think BvS still has a shot at the 1 billion mark if it's in theaters for 20 more weeks. I also think that building this universe a little more with SS and WW will have a big effect on JL in 2017.

It's funny how all the doom and gloom being reported about the big BvS failure and how WB's is cutting back, only for them to add two more DC movies to the slate.

Exactly. People thought I was crazy when I said that regardless of BvS success (unless its a huge failure, say, less than $1 billion) WB and DCEU are here for the long run.

DCEU will stay for the long run only if they start doing a better job than what they have been doing so far. And those who are claiming that it did $700 million in two weeks therefore it has a shot at billion are dreaming. There is no way this movie is going to make a billion at this point with the rate it is falling. The total gross for the first weekend was around $420 million while the second weekend it only grossed around $80 million. The steep fall happened despite NO competition. Unlike Avengers that had a more spread out world wide release, BVS has already opened in almost all major markets. Which market is the movie going to make money from now? Atlantis? The jungle book is coming out next week and it's going to steal a lot of screens and audience from BVS. This movie will be lucky to make $900 million, let alone a billion. The writing is on the wall. How can you not see it? This movie is a financial disappointment. Experts estimate that the movie needs to make between $800 to $930 millions just to break even. For the sake of DCU, pray that Snyder is kicked out and a talented director is brought on board who can make a movie that is popular with general audience so that DC characters can see better days.

It grossed at least north of $100 million this weekend. I can't find exact numbers at the moment, but if I remember correctly it started off the weekend at $510 million + Worldwide and finished with around $685 million. Plus, it only made around 38% of its money domestically so far, and if your number of $80 million is true, you're really saying it only made 63% of its weekend gross in America? No.

It made around 85 million world wide. I didn't include its domestic total. So with domestic total it comes aroind 135 million. A very steep drop considering there is absolutely no competition. Jungle Book is going to kill it next week. The movie is eventually going to gross between $800 to $900 million.

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#158 Posted by allend4bbt (76 posts) - - Show Bio

There's no real competition this weekend, which makes me think it might be over $800 million world wide by the end of the weekend. Even if it loses to Jungle Book the following week, it's not going away. Let's say BvS is only in theaters for 14 weeks like MOS. That leaves 11 weeks for it to make 200 million and break 1 billion. That's a short run compared to AOU, Iron-man 3 and TDK Rises which were in for over 20 weeks.

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#159 Posted by from_beyond (962 posts) - - Show Bio

There's no real competition this weekend, which makes me think it might be over $800 million world wide by the end of the weekend. Even if it loses to Jungle Book the following week, it's not going away. Let's say BvS is only in theaters for 14 weeks like MOS. That leaves 11 weeks for it to make 200 million and break 1 billion. That's a short run compared to AOU, Iron-man 3 and TDK Rises which were in for over 20 weeks.

My prediction is that it will make between $800 to $900 million because of the rate it is dropping.

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#160 Edited by Spambot (9470 posts) - - Show Bio

@allend4bbt said:

I don't see BvS as a failure. It's made over $700 million in less than 2 weeks. It's being compared to Marvel movies understandably, but I'm not sure that's fair. It's done more than every Marvel movie aside from the two Avengers movies.(It will pass Captain American: WS - $714 million by the end of the the week/ possibly once the foreign numbers come in for yesterday). The Avengers movies had an advantage too. It brought together characters with their own fan base from solo movies(CA, Thor, Iron-man x2). It had 4 years of a cinematic universe going into it.

It's a new Batman being introduced and Wonder Woman was only minor role. Batman Begins only did $374 million world wide. Just because these are iconic characters, doesn't guarantee box office.

Avengers AOU was in theaters for 23 weeks and did 1.4 billion. I think BvS still has a shot at the 1 billion mark if it's in theaters for 20 more weeks. I also think that building this universe a little more with SS and WW will have a big effect on JL in 2017.

I feel like you are making some really bad excuses for BvS not measuring up to AoU in box office. They opened with virtually identical numbers but the only difference is that BvS hasn't been able to hold onto its audience the way AoU and Avengers1 did mostly due to the horrible reviews it got. It just could not keep any momentum going past its opening weekend. That's why its only going to make $1b at the most. You also left out IM3 which made $1.2b+ and GotG which made $774m from the mcu.

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#161 Edited by Petey_is_Spidey (11697 posts) - - Show Bio

@from_beyond said:
@allend4bbt said:

There's no real competition this weekend, which makes me think it might be over $800 million world wide by the end of the weekend. Even if it loses to Jungle Book the following week, it's not going away. Let's say BvS is only in theaters for 14 weeks like MOS. That leaves 11 weeks for it to make 200 million and break 1 billion. That's a short run compared to AOU, Iron-man 3 and TDK Rises which were in for over 20 weeks.

My prediction is that it will make between $800 to $900 million because of the rate it is dropping.

By the end of this weekend, or at the latest Monday it should already be over $800 million. It's already at $702 million in 13 days (the international numbers haven't been updated since the 3rd). At the rate it is on now, it should bring in another $7-$11 million within these next two days, raising it's domestic total to around $711. If it experiences around a 50% drop (which most movies experience on their 3rd week), that means by next Monday it should already be at $736 million (this is the figure I'm projecting NOT counting the international numbers). Assuming this happens, internationally between the 4th and the 11th, it needs to make only $64 million to make it to $800 million, which is not out of this world.

Seeing that this film will easily be in most theaters for AT LEAST the next 11 weeks, it making anything less than $900 million is honestly improbable. But hey, I could be wrong.

We'll have to see how well it does week 3, because for all we know this weekend could have just been a terrible one; I mean even at $51 million, BvS steamrolled EVERYONE. The second most was Zootopia at $19 million. I expect this weekend will be a better weekend for everyone overall (I'm not saying it will increase, but I don't expect it to tumble any farther than 55%).

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#162 Posted by Royal_Warrior (5059 posts) - - Show Bio

So it's official BvS bombed and was a finical loss

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#163 Posted by Petey_is_Spidey (11697 posts) - - Show Bio

So it's official BvS bombed and was a finical loss

No, not at all. It needs $800 million to break even, and will easily surpass that. It will AT LEAST turn in a $100 million dollar profit when its all said and done. Did it meet their expectations? No, but it definitely wasn't a loss.

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#164 Edited by Royal_Warrior (5059 posts) - - Show Bio

@petey_is_spidey: Forbes did an article about it and from box office alone it'll make a huge loss however with TV rights,Merchandise sales and DVD sales it'll roughly make around 120 million pre tax which will turn out to be around 60 million profit after tax which wouldn't be bad it that's was box office alone, still be under performing but that's the combined of all media and Sales

I don't get where your getting it'll need 800 mill to break even seeing as every week that goes by the Studio recieve a lot less of the % of box office sales

Warner Brothers even own predictions put it at 895 million in projected box office sales which will roughly gove them back 395 million which is still a loss from box office alone

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2016/04/06/was-the-400-million-warner-bros-paid-for-batman-v-superman-a-good-investment/#399823697d67

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#165 Posted by from_beyond (962 posts) - - Show Bio

@petey_is_spidey:

@from_beyond said:
@allend4bbt said:

There's no real competition this weekend, which makes me think it might be over $800 million world wide by the end of the weekend. Even if it loses to Jungle Book the following week, it's not going away. Let's say BvS is only in theaters for 14 weeks like MOS. That leaves 11 weeks for it to make 200 million and break 1 billion. That's a short run compared to AOU, Iron-man 3 and TDK Rises which were in for over 20 weeks.

My prediction is that it will make between $800 to $900 million because of the rate it is dropping.

By the end of this weekend, or at the latest Monday it should already be over $800 million. It's already at $702 million in 13 days (the international numbers haven't been updated since the 3rd). At the rate it is on now, it should bring in another $7-$11 million within these next two days, raising it's domestic total to around $711. If it experiences around a 50% drop (which most movies experience on their 3rd week), that means by next Monday it should already be at $736 million (this is the figure I'm projecting NOT counting the international numbers). Assuming this happens, internationally between the 4th and the 11th, it needs to make only $64 million to make it to $800 million, which is not out of this world.

Seeing that this film will easily be in most theaters for AT LEAST the next 11 weeks, it making anything less than $900 million is honestly improbable. But hey, I could be wrong.

We'll have to see how well it does week 3, because for all we know this weekend could have just been a terrible one; I mean even at $51 million, BvS steamrolled EVERYONE. The second most was Zootopia at $19 million. I expect this weekend will be a better weekend for everyone overall (I'm not saying it will increase, but I don't expect it to tumble any farther than 55%).

I think it will make around $850 million because Jungle Book next week will do it serious damage. But even if it makes $900 million, that will only be around $50 million profit. That is assuming that it needs 800 million to break even. Some experts estimate that the movie needs around $900 to break even.Only WB know how much exactly do they need to break even though. Everything else is just informed speculation based on past statistics. Whatever happens, I am going to add $10 to its revenues by watching it second time tomorrow :)

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#166 Posted by from_beyond (962 posts) - - Show Bio

@petey_is_spidey: Forbes did an article about it and from box office alone it'll make a huge loss however with TV rights,Merchandise sales and DVD sales it'll roughly make around 120 million pre tax which will turn out to be around 60 million profit after tax which wouldn't be bad it that's was box office alone, still be under performing but that's the combined of all media and Sales

I don't get where your getting it'll need 800 mill to break even seeing as every week that goes by the Studio recieve a lot less of the % of box office sales

Warner Brothers even own predictions put it at 895 million in projected box office sales which will roughly gove them back 395 million which is still a loss from box office alone

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2016/04/06/was-the-400-million-warner-bros-paid-for-batman-v-superman-a-good-investment/#399823697d67

You are right. 800 million is assuming that they get 50% bo gross uniformly. I think they do get 50% initially in domestic market but internationally they get less than that. From what I have read it ranges between 35% to 45%. And like you said, %sales go down as the week go by. Some experts are suggesting that the movie may need as much as $930 million just to break even.

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#167 Posted by Madripoor (1917 posts) - - Show Bio

And this is what years of MCU do to people...

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#168 Posted by General_Disarray (1560 posts) - - Show Bio

@slayz said:

@eyedcyou: Wrong.

Terrio wrote it, but it's Zach's job to translate it to film.

It's also Zach's job to ensure that the editing is up to par. He has final say, so if the pacing and editing was terrible, he should have said something. Blame falls on him here.

His vision was altered due to studio requests? Prove it. I'm curious as to what you're specifically talking about. From what I can tell, all they really wanted was a JL cameo and for the film to be half an hour shorter.

Also, it sounds to me like Snyder changed a lot. During the casting process, Cranston was in the running for Luthor and Eisenberg was up for Jimmy Olsen but Snyder chose to take on Eisenberg as Lex. This indicates the script had a massively different version of Lex and a very different script if it had Olsen appear in a role prominent enough for Jesse Eisenberg to take, rather than just getting his head blown off within ten minutes of appearing.

Snyder said in an interview that he purposely cast a big actor for Olsen so it would be more of a shock when he dies near the start, so Olsen's role wasn't altered when Eisenberg switched, it was just less of a shock moment. And I don't see why Lex's character would need to be 'massively different' just because Cranston was no longer involved.

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#169 Posted by Petey_is_Spidey (11697 posts) - - Show Bio

@petey_is_spidey:

@petey_is_spidey said:
@from_beyond said:
@allend4bbt said:

There's no real competition this weekend, which makes me think it might be over $800 million world wide by the end of the weekend. Even if it loses to Jungle Book the following week, it's not going away. Let's say BvS is only in theaters for 14 weeks like MOS. That leaves 11 weeks for it to make 200 million and break 1 billion. That's a short run compared to AOU, Iron-man 3 and TDK Rises which were in for over 20 weeks.

My prediction is that it will make between $800 to $900 million because of the rate it is dropping.

By the end of this weekend, or at the latest Monday it should already be over $800 million. It's already at $702 million in 13 days (the international numbers haven't been updated since the 3rd). At the rate it is on now, it should bring in another $7-$11 million within these next two days, raising it's domestic total to around $711. If it experiences around a 50% drop (which most movies experience on their 3rd week), that means by next Monday it should already be at $736 million (this is the figure I'm projecting NOT counting the international numbers). Assuming this happens, internationally between the 4th and the 11th, it needs to make only $64 million to make it to $800 million, which is not out of this world.

Seeing that this film will easily be in most theaters for AT LEAST the next 11 weeks, it making anything less than $900 million is honestly improbable. But hey, I could be wrong.

We'll have to see how well it does week 3, because for all we know this weekend could have just been a terrible one; I mean even at $51 million, BvS steamrolled EVERYONE. The second most was Zootopia at $19 million. I expect this weekend will be a better weekend for everyone overall (I'm not saying it will increase, but I don't expect it to tumble any farther than 55%).

I think it will make around $850 million because Jungle Book next week will do it serious damage. But even if it makes $900 million, that will only be around $50 million profit. That is assuming that it needs 800 million to break even. Some experts estimate that the movie needs around $900 to break even.Only WB know how much exactly do they need to break even though. Everything else is just informed speculation based on past statistics. Whatever happens, I am going to add $10 to its revenues by watching it second time tomorrow :)

Well hey, that's at least something we can agree on! I will also try to increase its profits by adding $15 dollars through an IMAX ticket!

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#170 Posted by allend4bbt (76 posts) - - Show Bio

@spambot said:

I feel like you are making some really bad excuses for BvS not measuring up to AoU in box office. They opened with virtually identical numbers but the only difference is that BvS hasn't been able to hold onto its audience the way AoU and Avengers1 did mostly due to the horrible reviews it got. It just could not keep any momentum going past its opening weekend. That's why its only going to make $1b at the most. You also left out IM3 which made $1.2b+ and GotG which made $774m from the mcu.

I did forget those two movies. Damn! One thing I wonder about the MCU is how will the movies do without RDJ? He's the only one to cross a billion. Will the Avengers movies continue their success without him? He is probably the best cast superhero of all time, and the funny thing is he doesn't even have to act. He's basically playing himself.

I'd be willing to be money that BvS passes GotG by the end of the weekend. My point of the post was to show that building the universe helps movie box office. There are only 5 movies to cross 1 billion that aren't part of a series/universe of movies.(Avatar, Titanic, Frozen, Jurassic Park, Alice in Wonderland) And there are only 2 that are the second installment of a series/universe.(Pirates of the Caribbean, TDK) That's 7 movies in the history of film that were not the 3rd or later movie in the series/universe that crossed 1 billion. http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/ While BvS is technically a sequel to MOS, there are many in the general movie going audience that don't know this and never saw MOS. TDK barely reached 1 billion and some would claim that Heath Ledger's death had a positive effect on box office.(His outstanding portrayal and his method acting to get into character which was ultimately the cause of his demise.) I just think that expectation from the fans/media may have been a little high for the box office. I expected and hoped for 1 billion with anything over that being gravy. What we'll never actually know is, what the studios expectations were. Crossing a billion is extremely difficult no matter who the characters are.

Aside from that, there is still a chance this could reach 1 billion world wide.

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#171 Edited by Spambot (9470 posts) - - Show Bio

@allend4bbt: $1b may still be possible though prob not likely. Expectations may have been overly high but its hard to say if we are only saying that now after the fact to justify BvS only making $1b. I expected it to make $1.3b+ and possibly $1.5b. Would it have made those kinds of numbers if it had been critically well received? I think it could have. TDK also broke a billion back in 2008. In today's money it would have made $1.2b+. All WB can do is move on and try to learn but I think the problem is that Snyder treats these dceu movies like $10m art house films that can pander to all of his artistic urges instead of understanding his first and foremost purpose on these mega budget cbms is to make big money. He doesn't know how to do these big budget movies in a way to please the general audience or critics imo. He has a small segment of hardcore fans who love his style but he is overly obsessed with trying to recreate comics when comics and movies are two different mediums.

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#172 Posted by allend4bbt (76 posts) - - Show Bio

@spambot said:

@allend4bbt: $1b may still be possible though prob not likely. Expectations may have been overly high but its hard to say if we are only saying that now after the fact to justify BvS only making $1b. I expected it to make $1.3b+ and possibly $1.5b. Would it have made those kinds of numbers if it had been critically well received? I think it could have. TDK also broke a billion back in 2008. In today's money it would have made $1.2b+. All WB can do is move on and try to learn but I think the problem is that Snyder treats these dceu movies like $10m art house films that can pander to all of his artistic urges instead of understanding his first and foremost purpose on these mega budget cbms is to make big money. He doesn't know how to do these big budget movies in a way to please the general audience or critics imo. He has a small segment of hardcore fans who love his style but he is overly obsessed with trying to recreate comics when comics and movies are two different mediums.

I can respect your opinion. I happen to really enjoy Snyder's movies, and I enjoyed BvS. I like how his movies tend to get better with multiple viewings. They spark conversation and debate. People still argue over MOS 3 years later. I've found that more and more people admit to liking Watchmen and MOS after being critical when seeing it the first time. I think we'll have similar results with BvS.

TDK is a special case as I tried to explain. Batman Begins only made $375 million, and I assume that was a success in 2005, because they didn't hesitate to make a sequel. I believe Heath Ledger and his death inflated the numbers for TDK. The same could be said for Fast and the Furious 7 and Paul Walker.

What's my point? I enjoyed the movie. I think expectations were inflated...yours included. I don't believe the box office for this movie is a failure at all. The media seems to focus on the negative like always, an WB's is actually happy with the results and has added more films to the slate because of the success.

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#173 Edited by Spambot (9470 posts) - - Show Bio

@allend4bbt: If it fails to break $1b then I think it would have to be called a failure given how much hype it had going into its opening weekend. imo it was the third most hyped cbm of the modern cbm age behind only TDK and Avengers. Had it been better made and gotten mostly positive reviews I think it would have made $1.3b minimum. The fact that it is struggling to break $1b really falls on Snyder imo.

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#174 Posted by deactivated-5a39006e28280 (248 posts) - - Show Bio

@spambot said:

@allend4bbt: $1b may still be possible though prob not likely. Expectations may have been overly high but its hard to say if we are only saying that now after the fact to justify BvS only making $1b. I expected it to make $1.3b+ and possibly $1.5b. Would it have made those kinds of numbers if it had been critically well received? I think it could have. TDK also broke a billion back in 2008. In today's money it would have made $1.2b+. All WB can do is move on and try to learn but I think the problem is that Snyder treats these dceu movies like $10m art house films that can pander to all of his artistic urges instead of understanding his first and foremost purpose on these mega budget cbms is to make big money. He doesn't know how to do these big budget movies in a way to please the general audience or critics imo. He has a small segment of hardcore fans who love his style but he is overly obsessed with trying to recreate comics when comics and movies are two different mediums.

TDK is a special case as I tried to explain. Batman Begins only made $375 million, and I assume that was a success in 2005, because they didn't hesitate to make a sequel. I believe Heath Ledger and his death inflated the numbers for TDK. The same could be said for Fast and the Furious 7 and Paul Walker.

TDKR - so whose death inflated this films numbers?

Worldwide:$1,084,939,099
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#175 Posted by kasino (2061 posts) - - Show Bio

Posted by Petey_is_Spidey (7012 posts) - 1 day, 16 hours ago - Show Bio

Found this very interesting post on Cinemablend:

It's amazing just how incredibly invested in repeating just how awful BvS was some people are. Actually it's not so surprising. It was awful before it even got officially announced. Even before filming. We have heard the story over and over again it's just become obvious that it's mostly trolling. Every casting decision was met with uproar. Particularly Ben Affleck and Gal Gadot. Every week for the past two years websites like this and all over the internet there was passionate reporting about just how doomed the entire DCEU was. It's a miracle this movie even made that much money in two weeks. Were constantly informed that Justice League was only going to be green lit if BvS made at least $1.2 billion. Which is an incredible claim given that Wonder Woman was already in latter stages of filming and Suicide Squad was complete. And considering the fact that they have repeatedly said the DCEU is one big saga progressing in individual films. So how in the world were they going to wait for BvS to make a billion before making a decision on it's progress given that all the scripts from BvS to Justice League Part 1 were complete and intimately linked?

The reality is this is clearly a triumph for the hateful fanatics. I've seen movies getting bad rep for many years. But I've never seen a movie so passionately hated on even before it began filming. BvS had a huge cloud of negativity hanging over it's head for the past two and half years. What really is crazy about this is the clear obsession and loud repetitive voices of triumphant naysayers. Iron Man 3 was a rubbish movie which was rated fresh. But there wasn't much noise about it. Even on the backdrop of the whole DC vs Marvel nonsensical fan boy noise. It was underwhelming with a ridiculous premise and very little to do with the whole Marvel universe situation. We don't want to talk a lot about that film and it passed the public conscience in mediocrity. Age of Ultron had huge expectations but was a letdown for various reasons. No one trashed the movie before release even when reports of discord between director and studio surfaced during production. It was rated fresh but really as a movie offered very little. But no one made undue noise about it.

So are the people making this three years and counting relentless and passionate noise and bashing of anything DC every single day, are they fanatical DC supporters who are unaware of the existence of other movies? If they are actually DC fanatics then it seems perfectly sensible. But it doesn't seem to be the case. Because mostly the negative noise is very gleeful. It's more of rejoicing over the body of a fallen and hated enemy and making merry forever.

The drop in second weekend sales is not a disaster. It was obviously expected. Anyone watching things unfold over the past two and half years will have known that this movie had serious and determined opposition. If Deadpool which was declared a triumph merely on it's prerelease marketing and upon release greeted with universal cheer, if it dropped 60% in its second weekend, what exactly did anyone expect for BvS given the extreme enthusiastic bashing? It was obvious going to take at least a similar drop to Deadpool or higher. It was never going to outperform a movie with that much positive press. So that's why Warner Bros would logically be circumspect. The one movie I believe they found to yield disappointing returns would be Mad Max Fury Road. It was well received and some argue was the best movie by far to come out of 2015. But it didn't last at the box office. BvS I'm sure they are just about satisfied with it's overperformance under the prevailing conditions. In two weeks it has done the totals of the majority of superhero lifetime grosses and still expected to make more over the coming fortnight. Bad reviews upon release can affect a movie commercially but not always. But when a movie is badly reviewed daily from the very day it was announced before filming and upon release throughout it's entire theatrical run it would take great miracles to break even let alone break box office records

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#176 Posted by allend4bbt (76 posts) - - Show Bio

@spambot said:

@allend4bbt: If it fails to break $1b then I think it would have to be called a failure given how much hype it had going into its opening weekend. imo it was the third most hyped cbm of the modern cbm age behind only TDK and Avengers. Had it been better made and gotten mostly positive reviews I think it would have made $1.3b minimum. The fact that it is struggling to break $1b really falls on Snyder imo.

Not to go back and forth here, but this statement is a matter of opinion. While critics didn't like the movie, many of the fans did. I think part of that has to do with the length and success of Marvel. Many come in with a preconceived notion of what a cbm should be. WB's is doing something different, and that can be abrasive to viewers who come in expecting a different tone or formula. While the critics score probably has had an effect on the movie, I wouldn't call it a failure. Not to mention we're debating in absolutes....success vs failure. Could the movie have performed better? Yes. Could it have done worse? Yes. The definition of success is basically up to us because we don't know WB's numbers and thoughts. That being said.... Companies don't typically add to something they view as a failure, and WB's added two more movies to this cinematic universe.

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#177 Edited by Spambot (9470 posts) - - Show Bio

@allend4bbt: Well ya, its my opinion but at the same time I don't think audiences have received it all that well. I mean look at the polls on here which is a site filled with nothing but people who love comics and cbms. If it can't win over this crowd then its pretty safe to say it didn't win over the general audience either. Honestly, I'm not sure it could have done much worse given the opening it had. Snyder has ideas but imo he tries too hard to replicate comics and doesn't execute well within the concept of the movie as a whole. All the dream stuff should have been cut out imo and we were given no context for it at all other than him sort of alluding to it at the very end of the movie. Superman having it out for Batman also made no sense to me given that he operates in Gotham and all he had done was brand a criminal or two. I would have liked them to at least reveal where ww came from also. I also hated the semi horror filmish feel the first hour had. The intentionally blurry camera stuff and the extreme close ups. Plus Lex basically just walking into the ship and finding an incubator thing ready to take Zod's body and turn it into DD. WB is continuing with the dceu because they are already invested in it and see the potential to make lots of money with it. One movie that is a semi failure at the box office isn't going to change that automatically any more than aotc doing poorly meant Lucas wasn't going to make RotS. There are failures and then there are absolute bombs such as the last FF movie or Gods of Egypt.

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#178 Edited by allend4bbt (76 posts) - - Show Bio

@shamshi said:
@allend4bbt said:

TDK is a special case as I tried to explain. Batman Begins only made $375 million, and I assume that was a success in 2005, because they didn't hesitate to make a sequel. I believe Heath Ledger and his death inflated the numbers for TDK. The same could be said for Fast and the Furious 7 and Paul Walker.

TDKR - so whose death inflated this films numbers?

Worldwide:$1,084,939,099

The inflated numbers from TDK brought in the viewer ship, which made people want to see what happened to this world. We (I really liked TDK) wanted the complete story.

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#179 Posted by allend4bbt (76 posts) - - Show Bio

@spambot said:

@allend4bbt: Well ya, its my opinion but at the same time I don't think audiences have received it all that well. I mean look at the polls on here which is a site filled with nothing but people who love comics and cbms. If it can't win over this crowd then its pretty safe to say it didn't win over the general audience either. Honestly, I'm not sure it could have done much worse given the opening it had. Snyder has ideas but imo he tries too hard to replicate comics and doesn't execute well within the concept of the movie as a whole. All the dream stuff should have been cut out imo and we were given no context for it at all other than him sort of alluding to it at the very end of the movie. Superman having it out for Batman also made no sense to me given that he operates in Gotham and all he had done was brand a criminal or two. I would have liked them to at least reveal where ww came from also. I also hated the semi horror filmish feel the first hour had. The intentionally blurry camera stuff and the extreme close ups. Plus Lex basically just walking into the ship and finding an incubator thing ready to take Zod's body and turn it into DD. WB is continuing with the dceu because they are already invested in it and see the potential to make lots of money with it. One movie that is a semi failure at the box office isn't going to change that automatically any more than aotc doing poorly meant Lucas wasn't going to make RotS. There are failures and then there are absolute bombs such as the last FF movie was.

IMBD fan scores:

Iron-man -7.9...2 - 7.0....3- 7.3 Captain America - 6.8...WS - 7.8 Thor - 7.0...DW - 7.1 GotG - 8.1 Ant-man - 7.4

Avengers - 8.1....AOU - 7.5 = Avg of 7.45

MOS - 7.2 BvS - 7.3

Looks to me like it's pretty close with most of the "successful" Marvel movies. So you can be like the media and try to swing this negative all you want, but everything I've said has been backed by numbers.

The rest of your post is opinion.

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#180 Edited by Spambot (9470 posts) - - Show Bio

@allend4bbt: imbd was already proven to be fake or manipulated. It was at 9.8 on imbd with thousands of votes before it had even opened. rt is the same way. If you take into account only the votes on rt since it actually opened it is getting less than 50% approval there. If it were truly as liked as some of these sites would have you believe it would already be close to $1b. Look at the poll on here. More people gave it 1 star than have given it 5 stars and more gave it 2 stars than gave it 4 stars. I am not buying its because its all Marvel fanboys giving it 1 star either. People generally wanted to love BvS on here.

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#181 Edited by Petey_is_Spidey (11697 posts) - - Show Bio

@spambot said:

@allend4bbt: imbd was already proven to be fake or manipulated. It was at 9.8 on imbd with thousands of votes before it had even opened. rt is the same way. If you take into account only the votes on rt since it actually opened it is getting less than 50% approval there. If it were truly as liked as some of these sites would have you believe it would already be close to $1b. Look at the poll on here. More people gave it 1 star than have given it 5 stars and more gave it 2 stars than gave it 4 stars. I am not buying its because its all Marvel fanboys giving it 1 star either. People generally wanted to love BvS on here.

I can tell you for a fact that for the 3 years that I've been on this site and BvS been in development, THAT IS NOT THE TRUTH!

A lot of people wanted to succeed, sure, but there were just as many, if not more who bashed everything they did from their casting to tv spots.

Also, the manipulation goes both ways. I saw MULTIPLE post on IMBd who gave it a 1/10 for absolutely no reason. Also, hindsight bias is something that plays into this two. People will naturally rate the film lower if "experienced" and knowledgeable critics rate it low, even if they have never seen it. There was actually a smear campaign found a few months ago that was working against this film. EVERY movie goes through that; TFA was at a 9.7 when it just released, but eventually the people who actually saw the film brought that score down. Plus, look at Metacritic, a site who only had 3,164 fans rate the film. It still has a 7.3 score, compared to Ironman 2 who has a 6.5, IM3 which has a 6.4, Thor which has a 6.9, TDW with at 7.3, AoU with a 7, and even the Avengers only has a 7.9.

Lastly, without these sites, it's nearly impossible to gauge how fans reacted to the film. What are we supposed to do, go around asking random people what they thought of the movie?

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#182 Posted by allend4bbt (76 posts) - - Show Bio

@spambot said:

@allend4bbt: imbd was already proven to be fake or manipulated. It was at 9.8 on imbd with thousands of votes before it had even opened. rt is the same way. If you take into account only the votes on rt since it actually opened it is getting less than 50% approval there. If it were truly as liked as some of these sites would have you believe it would already be close to $1b. Look at the poll on here. More people gave it 1 star than have given it 5 stars and more gave it 2 stars than gave it 4 stars. I am not buying its because its all Marvel fanboys giving it 1 star either. People generally wanted to love BvS on here. Yet only a little over half of 97 people gave it 3 stars or more.

They had viewings prior to the release date. Where was imbd proven to be fake? I'm supposed to take the votes on this site of a small percentage of the overall number of people that saw the movie and make it the standard? Not to mention that if it was inflated, wouldn't the same be true for the Marvel movies?

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#183 Edited by Spambot (9470 posts) - - Show Bio

@petey_is_spidey: Bashing the casting doesn't mean they didn't want to love the movie. It means they are so hyped for the movie that they freak out over every little thing. Most of the people who were going crazy over Affleck being cast as Bats ended up saying how he was the one thing they loved about the movie and still didn't like it. Same goes for Gadot as ww. Most thought she did a more than adequate job as Diana but that BvS still wasn't that great. I wanted to love it too but I have to be honest with myself and the flaws I saw. I am not buying there was some conspiracy on here to bring BvS down from the beginning or even with the media. It just had a lot of things wrong with it.

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#184 Edited by allend4bbt (76 posts) - - Show Bio

@spambot said:

@allend4bbt: imbd was already proven to be fake or manipulated. It was at 9.8 on imbd with thousands of votes before it had even opened. rt is the same way. If you take into account only the votes on rt since it actually opened it is getting less than 50% approval there. If it were truly as liked as some of these sites would have you believe it would already be close to $1b. Look at the poll on here. More people gave it 1 star than have given it 5 stars and more gave it 2 stars than gave it 4 stars. I am not buying its because its all Marvel fanboys giving it 1 star either. People generally wanted to love BvS on here.

I can tell you for a fact that for the 3 years that I've been on this site and BvS been in development, THAT IS NOT THE TRUTH!

A lot of people wanted to succeed, sure, but there were just as many, if not more who bashed everything they did from their casting to tv spots.

It did seem that way didn't it.

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#185 Edited by Uncanny_Doom (845 posts) - - Show Bio

It wasn't 100% his fault that the movie was bad. DC/WB just has the wrong direction and no clear vision, and the script was terrible. Yes, Zack Snyder should take some blame because after all, the movie is a two and a half hour pretentious bore with some pretty visuals which is his entire M.O., but it's not his fault that DC essentially put out a two hour trailer that was trying to force a universe into existence.

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#186 Edited by Spambot (9470 posts) - - Show Bio

@allend4bbt said:
@petey_is_spidey said:
@spambot said:

@allend4bbt: imbd was already proven to be fake or manipulated. It was at 9.8 on imbd with thousands of votes before it had even opened. rt is the same way. If you take into account only the votes on rt since it actually opened it is getting less than 50% approval there. If it were truly as liked as some of these sites would have you believe it would already be close to $1b. Look at the poll on here. More people gave it 1 star than have given it 5 stars and more gave it 2 stars than gave it 4 stars. I am not buying its because its all Marvel fanboys giving it 1 star either. People generally wanted to love BvS on here.

I can tell you for a fact that for the 3 years that I've been on this site and BvS been in development, THAT IS NOT THE TRUTH!

A lot of people wanted to succeed, sure, but there were just as many, if not more who bashed everything they did from their casting to tv spots.

It did seem that way didn't it.

It didn't to me. Granted a lot of people on here don't like MoS either but no one pays to see a movie in a theater hoping to see a bad movie. Especially comics fans paying to see BvS. Snyder's style just turns a lot of people off as does the way he tells stories and edits them.

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#187 Posted by allend4bbt (76 posts) - - Show Bio

@spambot said:
@allend4bbt said:
@petey_is_spidey said:
@spambot said:

@allend4bbt: imbd was already proven to be fake or manipulated. It was at 9.8 on imbd with thousands of votes before it had even opened. rt is the same way. If you take into account only the votes on rt since it actually opened it is getting less than 50% approval there. If it were truly as liked as some of these sites would have you believe it would already be close to $1b. Look at the poll on here. More people gave it 1 star than have given it 5 stars and more gave it 2 stars than gave it 4 stars. I am not buying its because its all Marvel fanboys giving it 1 star either. People generally wanted to love BvS on here.

I can tell you for a fact that for the 3 years that I've been on this site and BvS been in development, THAT IS NOT THE TRUTH!

A lot of people wanted to succeed, sure, but there were just as many, if not more who bashed everything they did from their casting to tv spots.

It did seem that way didn't it.

It didn't to me. Granted a lot of people on here don't like MoS either but no one pays to see a movie in a theater hoping to see a bad movie. Especially comics fans paying to see BvS. Snyder's style just turns a lot of people off as does the way he tells stories and edits them.

What poll are you even talking about? The poll on the BvS page only has 12 votes and 7 are 5 stars.

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#188 Posted by Spambot (9470 posts) - - Show Bio

@allend4bbt: http://comicvine.gamespot.com/batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice/4025-1981/forums/how-would-you-rate-batman-v-superman-1778028/#39

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#189 Edited by Petey_is_Spidey (11697 posts) - - Show Bio

@spambot said:

@petey_is_spidey: Bashing the casting doesn't mean they didn't want to love the movie. It means they are so hyped for the movie that they freak out over every little thing. Most of the people who were going crazy over Affleck being cast as Bats ended up saying how he was the one thing they loved about the movie and still didn't like it. Same goes for Gadot as ww. Most thought she did a more than adequate job as Diana but that BvS still wasn't that great. I wanted to love it too but I have to be honest with myself and the flaws I saw. I am not buying there was some conspiracy on here to bring BvS down from the beginning or even with the media. It just had a lot of things wrong with it.

But there actually WAS a smear campaign going around on Twitter bashing the film and it's trailers.

Also, saying stuff like "Wow, this trailer really looks trash" and "This movie is failed" or "The DCEU is doomed" after A TEASER IS REVEALED is not freaking out over any little thing. No fan, especially one who wants a movie to succeed, would bash every little thing they do. A fan wouldn't call the film trash before anyone has even saw it. There were dozens, if not hundreds of people on this site going around talking it down. And that's just on this site. I can go on any single Youtube video and grab dozens of comments in a matter of minutes bashing the film, going all the way back to the first Teaser.

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#190 Posted by allend4bbt (76 posts) - - Show Bio

@spambot said:

@allend4bbt: http://comicvine.gamespot.com/batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice/4025-1981/forums/how-would-you-rate-batman-v-superman-1778028/#39

So you want me to accept the votes of 98 people, with 58% out of 97%(it doesn't add up to 100%) giving it 3 stars or better, over imbd 224,447 votes for 7.3/10 rating and rt 192,289 votes for 70% fresh and a score of 7.4/10.

I'm sorry but that makes little to no sense. I have to conclude that the film was received well by the fans when compared to other cbms.

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#191 Edited by Spambot (9470 posts) - - Show Bio

@allend4bbt: You know what though, I tracked the film on rt and on Tuesday it was at 115k reviews and 85% approval. That was two days before it went into wide release and it was at 115k. Now since then it has added 75k reviews and sits at 70%(that's less reviews since its opening Thursday than it had prior to it). Which means less than half of the people who reviewed(and actually saw it) since it actually went into wide release said they liked it. imbd is the same way. It was piling up 10 votes on imbd by the thousands before it had even been released and stood at 9.8 on its Thursday release.

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#192 Edited by Spambot (9470 posts) - - Show Bio

@petey_is_spidey: I don't agree on there being anywhere close to hundreds of people on here calling it trash before it had even come out. You aren't going to convince me of things which simply did not happen. There was a small minority who were saying things like that. Its always the conspiracy idea for why people didn't like it. I am not biased for or against the movie either. I had every hope it would be a great movie and be a huge success. I didn't see that many people honestly calling it trash before it had even come out and I was on here quite a bit during that week. Out of the 100 people who voted on it I think the vast majority were simply being honest. Just as you could say there is a small minority who were going to say they loved it no matter what.

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#193 Posted by allend4bbt (76 posts) - - Show Bio

@spambot said:

@allend4bbt: You know what though, I tracked the film on rt and on Tuesday it was at 115k reviews and 85% approval. That was two days before it went into wide release and it was at 115k. Now since then it has added 75k reviews and sits at 70%(that's less reviews since its opening Thursday than it had prior to it). Which means less than half of the people who reviewed(and actually saw it) since it actually went into wide release said they liked it. imbd is the same way. It was piling up 10 votes on imbd by the thousands before it had even been released.

The problem is you have absolutely no proof of this.

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice/4025-1981/forums/did-you-like-dawn-of-justice-1778192/#79 87/139

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice/4025-1981/ 11/12

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice/4025-1981/forums/how-would-you-rate-batman-v-superman-1778028/#39 56/98

Even on this site, which I would contend is more Marvel centric based on the hosts, has 62% that thought it was OK or better. Plus that is still a very small sample size of 249 people for a movie that has a box office over 700 million.

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#194 Edited by Spambot (9470 posts) - - Show Bio

@allend4bbt: Proof: http://www.inquisitr.com/2920084/bvs-rotten-tomatoes-reviews-are-in-dawn-of-justice-is-rotten/ On that page you will see a screen shot the writer took of BvS' rt score on Wednesday, one day before its wide release when it still only had 110 critic reviews and it clearly shows that it already had 120k votes and was at 83% approval. Since then it has only added 72k votes and gone down to 70% approval. This also means less than half of those reviews since the day before it went into wide release liked it. Its very fishy how it had almost twice as many regular votes one day before its official release as it has gotten in the two weeks since its official release date.

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#195 Posted by DarthAznable (16928 posts) - - Show Bio

It was kinda doomed from the start because it's not a typical Avengers movie.

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#196 Posted by allend4bbt (76 posts) - - Show Bio

@spambot said:

@allend4bbt: Proof: http://www.inquisitr.com/2920084/bvs-rotten-tomatoes-reviews-are-in-dawn-of-justice-is-rotten/ On that page you will see a screen shot the writer took of BvS' rt score on Wednesday, one day before its wide release when it still only had 110 critic reviews and it clearly shows that it already had 120k votes and was at 83% approval. Since then it has only added 72k votes and gone down to 70% approval.

There were per-screenings done. Those fans could have voted once the embargo was lifted. I don't know how many got to see it or how many were just voting to help or hurt the score. These are the best measuring tools we have, and there is a conciseness.

Fandango - 4 star average 30,626 votes. http://www.fandango.com/batmanvsuperman:dawnofjustice_169807/movieoverview

Metacritic - 7.3 3,165 votes http://www.metacritic.com/movie/batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice

That's 4 sites if you include imbd with very similar scores. How do you expect anyone to believe that all these aggregate sites are false, but your opinion along with the small sample on this site(that actually had similar results to the other sites) is true?

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#197 Edited by Spambot (9470 posts) - - Show Bio

@allend4bbt: Believe w/e you want to about this movie. What I'm saying is the proof was right there. You had 120k reviews on the day before it went into wide release who gave it an 83% approval and in the two weeks since it went into full release it has only received 72k votes and according to the math less than half liked it enough to give it a thumbs up. The 7.3 is about right I would say. imo it was a 6-7 and of course there will be a lot of fanboys who will make sure they vote and give it a 10. So that's basically close to what I think it was and what audiences are saying it is. You also notice that at 120k votes it had a 4.3 on rt and since then it has gone down to a 3.7. Which means the average score it has received since the Wednesday before it was released is a 2.7 and only 48% liked it. Doesn't it seem strange to you how differently the people have voted since it actually came out compared to the 120k who had voted before most people could even see it? Something is rotten in Denmark..

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