The Future of BATMAN AND ROBIN Revealed

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k4tzm4n

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Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

If you're still trying to avoid BATMAN INC #8 spoilers then back out of this page right now.

Seriously, go away.

Gone? Good.

Writer Grant Morrison kicked us right in the hearts when he gave Damian a brutal death. The little guy went down fighting, but now that he's gone, I can't help but wonder what that means for BATMAN AND ROBIN... a book I absolutely adore. Speaking with CBR, writer Peter J. Tomasi says he'll have other members of the Bat-family show up for the next five issues. Additionally, the title will be called "Batman And..."

Tomasi tells the site he doesn't want to take the expected route and immediately give Batman and new Robin. Instead, he says he'll explore the five stages of grief and states "we intend to explore it in a very visceral way."

No Caption Provided

For me, this is nothing but good news. I believe replacing Damian or having him come back too soon would completely take away all of the powerful emotions we felt in BATMAN INC #8. I love the little dude, but he went down like a champ and I hope he doesn't come back for years. At least we now know he won't return to Batman's side for at least five months. Viners, how do you feel about this?

Source: CBR

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EdwardWindsor

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#1  Edited By EdwardWindsor

20 will be mine

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Prim3tim33

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#2  Edited By Prim3tim33

Im sad and happy :/ i dont no what to feel, But still going to keep reading i want to see how this works out !!!

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xtremekidx

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#3  Edited By xtremekidx

im happy with this.....and actually looking forward to the upcoming team up issues....the only problem i have is that these issues wont have any story and would be batman going through grief and everybody else narrating it....its ok for one or two issues but hopefully this wont happen

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sora_thekey

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#4  Edited By sora_thekey

Well, for the exception of Catwoman all of those characters have been Bruce's sidekicks so I see no problem in making that the premise of the Batman and Robin book.

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longbowhunter

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#5  Edited By longbowhunter

I'm kinda indifferent to this. I bought Batman & Robin for Damian.

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FadeToBlackBolt

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#6  Edited By FadeToBlackBolt

5 Stages of Grief? Really?

Sigh. Remember when comics tried to be creative?

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JohnnyGat

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#7  Edited By JohnnyGat

If it's in order and if it specifically sticks to a stage an issue format then it would be like this I take it Denial (Red Robin), Anger (Red Hood), Bargaining (Batgirl), Depression (Catwoman), Acceptance (Nightwing).

If this is the case I find the old trio of Robins positioning to actually make sense, and absolutely love how Nightwing would be there for Bruce getting to the acceptance part of grief as well as Jason covering the anger side. I don't know how I should react to Batgirl, and as much as I know I can think of a better scenario with Catwoman helping Bruce with his depression other than what I'm thinking considering what I'm thinking I see it as more hilarious (I have a poor sense of humor) and out of place.

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pedroescamoso22

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#8  Edited By pedroescamoso22

@longbowhunter: Me too! Honestly I'm still mad that Damian was killed, and this isn't helping.

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V_Scarlotte_Rose

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#9  Edited By V_Scarlotte_Rose

How do I feel?

Confused, as to what they're going to do after this. The only thing I can think of would be for there to be a new Robin in #24, which would be too soon. Cancelling the series straight after the grief issues would be odd, having it end not on a Batman And Robin Issue. Maybe they should have cancelled Batman And Robin, and made Five Stages Of Grief a mini series instead. I'll maybe get the Catwoman issue. Glad there isn't a Batwoman issue.

That's how I feel.

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ccraft

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#10  Edited By ccraft

1. Denial

#19: Batman and Red Robin

I get this, RR will probably be a little harsh on Bruce.

2. Anger

#20: Batman and Red Hood

I definitely see this, RH is going to be really harsh on Bruce. I can't wait.

3. Bargaining

#21: Batman and Batgirl

I feel like this should have been switched with Tim Drake.

[If only we had tried to be a better person toward them…]

4. Depressing

#22: Batman and Catwoman

I really hope he tells Catwoman his secret identity, like in HUSH.

5. Acceptance

#23: Batman and Nightwing

This will probably be the saddest issue...

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NathanXplosion

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#11  Edited By NathanXplosion

As someone who has only been reading DC books since the New 52, I feel like Grant had no right to kill Damian. I understand that Damian is his creation, but from the books I've been reading Tomasi has done more with the character than Morrison did. I understand that my opinion might seem crazy to some but its the way I feel.

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The Mighty Monarch

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Anyone else find it interesting that this has him teaming up with his former Robins (excluding Stephanie Brown) in reverse chronological order?

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TheRobberBarron

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#13  Edited By TheRobberBarron

There is nothing they can do to justify Damian's death..I don't care for the five stages or Grant Morrison any longer...if anything Bruce should be suicidal after facing the court, Leviathan , Joker , and loosing his son. I know this is comic books but believing Batman is going to be ok at any point would be a joke and he better not be in Justice League.

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Phaedrusgr

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#14  Edited By Phaedrusgr

@V_Scarlotte_Rose: See? I told you there would be no Huntress...

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DurararaFTW

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#15  Edited By DurararaFTW

NOW can we say that Death of the Family was overselling it? They haven't stopped hanging out at all!

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Big_Nasty

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#16  Edited By Big_Nasty

@ccraft said:

1. Denial

#19: Batman and Red Robin

I get this, RR will probably be a little harsh on Bruce.

2. Anger

#20: Batman and Red Hood

I definitely see this, RH is going to be really harsh on Bruce. I can't wait.

3. Bargaining

#21: Batman and Batgirl

I feel like this should have been switched with Tim Drake.

[If only we had tried to be a better person toward them…]

4. Depressing

#22: Batman and Catwoman

I really hope he tells Catwoman his secret identity, like in HUSH.

5. Acceptance

#23: Batman and Nightwing

This will probably be the saddest issue...

Well Played.

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feargalr

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#17  Edited By feargalr

@TheRobberBarron said:

There is nothing they can do to justify Damian's death..I don't care for the five stages or Grant Morrison any longer...if anything Bruce should be suicidal after facing the court, Leviathan , Joker , and loosing his son. I know this is comic books but believing Batman is going to be ok at any point would be a joke and he better not be in Justice League.

I agree... mostly.

There's been way too many huge stories happening in Batman lately, having the court and joker back to back was a mistake IMO, both were great stories but it was too much too fast, especially with the Batman Inc. stuff too. Like Batman has basically been questioning everything he thought he knew every other week now. Then again perhaps this is building up to a bigger story or something... I hope...

I also think having Death Of The Family and Damian dying so close together, but completely separate, was a big mistake, it takes away a lot of weight or something from Death Of The Family.

But I'll be reading these, Tomasi is a good guy and he writes the best Damian IMO... no... actually he wrote the best Damian... :(

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GrandSymbiote94

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#18  Edited By GrandSymbiote94

@EdwardWindsor said:

20 will be mine

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ULTRAstarkiller

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#19  Edited By ULTRAstarkiller

Cant wait.

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Outside_85

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#20  Edited By Outside_85

Only mildly interested in seeing how Tomasi (or anyone else to be precise) writes the trainwreck that is Tim Drake.

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jwalser3

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#21  Edited By jwalser3

Going to pick up all 5.

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DEGRAAF

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#22  Edited By DEGRAAF

@ccraft said:

1. Denial

#19: Batman and Red Robin

I get this, RR will probably be a little harsh on Bruce.

2. Anger

#20: Batman and Red Hood

I definitely see this, RH is going to be really harsh on Bruce. I can't wait.

3. Bargaining

#21: Batman and Batgirl

I feel like this should have been switched with Tim Drake.

[If only we had tried to be a better person toward them…]

4. Depressing

#22: Batman and Catwoman

I really hope he tells Catwoman his secret identity, like in HUSH.

5. Acceptance

#23: Batman and Nightwing

This will probably be the saddest issue...

nicely done. I was going to post something similarly. Although i was thinking

19 - denial - Red robin - act almost as if nothing is wrong and its a normal day with his robin (tim) as if Tim never stopped being his side kick not wanting to talk about Damian, ignoring the issue all together

20 - Anger - Red Hood - I see them fighting each other more then villains. Jason will be pissed for Bruce not retaliating against Damians killer. Batman might admit that is was his fault by the end

21 - Bargaining - Batgirl - This one is hard for me bc im not sure hwat he would be bargaining unless it is him trying to decide to raise Damian from the dead with a Lazarus pit while Batgirl talks him out of it explaining that even if he did raise Damian from the dead, Damian will never be the same while also describing her grief after being shot by the joker and decribing her stages when paralyzed

22 - Depression - Catwoman - This should be a touching and heart felt issue i would think with little fighting action but with a lot of talking and confiding. I would also like to see him show his identity to her trying to open up his life to someone he cares for

23 - Acceptance - Nightwing - I hope this shows a multitude of things. It should show Nightwings grief at the loss of someone he felt was like a little brother or son while also showing how Bruce and commemorate his (Damians) life and think about the good times and move on rather than continuously grieve and give in to the anger and hate that would ultimately ruin Bruce and Batman

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#23  Edited By DonFelipe

I like the 5 stages of grieve approach and am excited about the next 5 issues and the selection of the family members, though it's sad Alfred is being ignored again. One can only hope the series is going to be called Batman and Alfred from issue #24 onwards. 
 
If not, I hope it'll be Batman and somebody else (similar to the Captain America and... series) for a while. It would be great to have an ongoing of one-shots, that could deal with the past and presence (just like the upcoming Batman/Superman title).

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BobFromAccounting

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Why do I have a feeling that Damian will be back for #24?

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entropy_aegis

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#25  Edited By entropy_aegis

That's the entire family right there,so much for DOTF.@feargalr said:

@TheRobberBarron said:

There is nothing they can do to justify Damian's death..I don't care for the five stages or Grant Morrison any longer...if anything Bruce should be suicidal after facing the court, Leviathan , Joker , and loosing his son. I know this is comic books but believing Batman is going to be ok at any point would be a joke and he better not be in Justice League.

I agree... mostly.

There's been way too many huge stories happening in Batman lately, having the court and joker back to back was a mistake IMO, both were great stories but it was too much too fast, especially with the Batman Inc. stuff too. Like Batman has basically been questioning everything he thought he knew every other week now. Then again perhaps this is building up to a bigger story or something... I hope...

I also think having Death Of The Family and Damian dying so close together, but completely separate, was a big mistake, it takes away a lot of weight or something from Death Of The Family.

But I'll be reading these, Tomasi is a good guy and he writes the best Damian IMO... no... actually he wrote the best Damian... :(

Um no he writes Damian incomplete,he gets the insecure child looking for approval part but completely downplays the aristocrat in Damian,Morrison writes the best Damian followed by Bryan Q Miller,Joshua Williamson and Paul Dini.

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kennybaese

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#26  Edited By kennybaese

This is a cool idea, and I actually wouldn't mind this book becoming a World's Finest style book where Batman teams up with other characters (from the Bat family or not) for different arcs. However, I wouldn't be surprised in any way if after maybe a year Damian is back. I doubt that Morrison will bring him back at the end of his Batman Inc. run, but I definitely think there will be something there that would allow for Damian's return. I definitely think that Batman and Robin would be the place to have Bruce find out that he could maybe bring his son back and then figure out who to do so a la Tim in the first half or so of the Red Robin series that started after Batman RIP.

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haydenclaireheroes

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I am excited for this. Finally we are getting a Batfamily title

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soumya

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#28  Edited By soumya

@BobFromAccounting said:

Why do I have a feeling that Damian will be back for #24?

The feeling is mutual

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V_Scarlotte_Rose

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#29  Edited By V_Scarlotte_Rose

@Phaedrusgr said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose: See? I told you there would be no Huntress...

I don't think I suggested she be one of the five stages. Or did I?

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k4tzm4n

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#30  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator
@entropy_aegis said:

That's the entire family right there,so much for DOTF. @feargalr said:

@TheRobberBarron said:

There is nothing they can do to justify Damian's death..I don't care for the five stages or Grant Morrison any longer...if anything Bruce should be suicidal after facing the court, Leviathan , Joker , and loosing his son. I know this is comic books but believing Batman is going to be ok at any point would be a joke and he better not be in Justice League.

I agree... mostly.

There's been way too many huge stories happening in Batman lately, having the court and joker back to back was a mistake IMO, both were great stories but it was too much too fast, especially with the Batman Inc. stuff too. Like Batman has basically been questioning everything he thought he knew every other week now. Then again perhaps this is building up to a bigger story or something... I hope...

I also think having Death Of The Family and Damian dying so close together, but completely separate, was a big mistake, it takes away a lot of weight or something from Death Of The Family.

But I'll be reading these, Tomasi is a good guy and he writes the best Damian IMO... no... actually he wrote the best Damian... :(

Um no he writes Damian incomplete,he gets the insecure child looking for approval part but completely downplays the aristocrat in Damian,Morrison writes the best Damian followed by Bryan Q Miller,Joshua Williamson and Paul Dini.

After all, Morrison delivered my favorite Damian line: 
 
No Caption Provided
 
That said, Tomasi has poured a ton of heart into the character with BATMAN AND ROBIN IMHO. I think the Nobody story and Annual are brilliant and touching.
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#31  Edited By Gambit1024

I'll buy it.

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ccraft

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#32  Edited By ccraft

@DEGRAAF said:

@ccraft said:

1. Denial

#19: Batman and Red Robin

I get this, RR will probably be a little harsh on Bruce.

2. Anger

#20: Batman and Red Hood

I definitely see this, RH is going to be really harsh on Bruce. I can't wait.

3. Bargaining

#21: Batman and Batgirl

I feel like this should have been switched with Tim Drake.

[If only we had tried to be a better person toward them…]

4. Depressing

#22: Batman and Catwoman

I really hope he tells Catwoman his secret identity, like in HUSH.

5. Acceptance

#23: Batman and Nightwing

This will probably be the saddest issue...

nicely done. I was going to post something similarly. Although i was thinking

19 - denial - Red robin - act almost as if nothing is wrong and its a normal day with his robin (tim) as if Tim never stopped being his side kick not wanting to talk about Damian, ignoring the issue all together

20 - Anger - Red Hood - I see them fighting each other more then villains. Jason will be pissed for Bruce not retaliating against Damians killer. Batman might admit that is was his fault by the end

21 - Bargaining - Batgirl - This one is hard for me bc im not sure hwat he would be bargaining unless it is him trying to decide to raise Damian from the dead with a Lazarus pit while Batgirl talks him out of it explaining that even if he did raise Damian from the dead, Damian will never be the same while also describing her grief after being shot by the joker and decribing her stages when paralyzed

22 - Depression - Catwoman - This should be a touching and heart felt issue i would think with little fighting action but with a lot of talking and confiding. I would also like to see him show his identity to her trying to open up his life to someone he cares for

23 - Acceptance - Nightwing - I hope this shows a multitude of things. It should show Nightwings grief at the loss of someone he felt was like a little brother or son while also showing how Bruce and commemorate his (Damians) life and think about the good times and move on rather than continuously grieve and give in to the anger and hate that would ultimately ruin Bruce and Batman

Well put, I'm glad you agree with Bruce showing Catwoman his identity, I just hope it's handled well. I'm really looking forward to see how this plays out with the rest of the Bat Family. Although I'm glad Batwoman isn't apart of this, I'd really like to see what Bruce thinks of Batwoman, and in his state it would be more interesting.

But I'm worried about what Peter Tomasi said about a new Robin. "I will say that I didn't want to take the usual road that's been traveled when it comes to the 'Batman needs a Robin' angle," I'm glad he's not taking the same route, but I hope some how Damian comes back, there's a few ways it could happen. I just don't want to see a new Robin.

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Vitaeleous

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#33  Edited By Vitaeleous

Yes, five stages of grief. Remember when comics used to be reverent? Remember when we as readers and creators used to care about the characters we loved inside these pages? Remember when writers who gave a shit stayed with a series for a decade-and-a-half, dedicated to the life of a single hero? So yeah, five stages of grief. Fictional or not, Bruce is a father who has lost a son, and fictional or not we owe him time to grieve.

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V_Scarlotte_Rose

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#34  Edited By V_Scarlotte_Rose

@ccraft said:

@DEGRAAF said:

@ccraft said:

1. Denial

#19: Batman and Red Robin

I get this, RR will probably be a little harsh on Bruce.

2. Anger

#20: Batman and Red Hood

I definitely see this, RH is going to be really harsh on Bruce. I can't wait.

3. Bargaining

#21: Batman and Batgirl

I feel like this should have been switched with Tim Drake.

[If only we had tried to be a better person toward them…]

4. Depressing

#22: Batman and Catwoman

I really hope he tells Catwoman his secret identity, like in HUSH.

5. Acceptance

#23: Batman and Nightwing

This will probably be the saddest issue...

nicely done. I was going to post something similarly. Although i was thinking

19 - denial - Red robin - act almost as if nothing is wrong and its a normal day with his robin (tim) as if Tim never stopped being his side kick not wanting to talk about Damian, ignoring the issue all together

20 - Anger - Red Hood - I see them fighting each other more then villains. Jason will be pissed for Bruce not retaliating against Damians killer. Batman might admit that is was his fault by the end

21 - Bargaining - Batgirl - This one is hard for me bc im not sure hwat he would be bargaining unless it is him trying to decide to raise Damian from the dead with a Lazarus pit while Batgirl talks him out of it explaining that even if he did raise Damian from the dead, Damian will never be the same while also describing her grief after being shot by the joker and decribing her stages when paralyzed

22 - Depression - Catwoman - This should be a touching and heart felt issue i would think with little fighting action but with a lot of talking and confiding. I would also like to see him show his identity to her trying to open up his life to someone he cares for

23 - Acceptance - Nightwing - I hope this shows a multitude of things. It should show Nightwings grief at the loss of someone he felt was like a little brother or son while also showing how Bruce and commemorate his (Damians) life and think about the good times and move on rather than continuously grieve and give in to the anger and hate that would ultimately ruin Bruce and Batman

Well put, I'm glad you agree with Bruce showing Catwoman his identity, I just hope it's handled well. I'm really looking forward to see how this plays out with the rest of the Bat Family. Although I'm glad Batwoman isn't apart of this, I'd really like to see what Bruce thinks of Batwoman, and in his state it would be more interesting.

But I'm worried about what Peter Tomasi said about a new Robin. "I will say that I didn't want to take the usual road that's been traveled when it comes to the 'Batman needs a Robin' angle," I'm glad he's not taking the same route, but I hope some how Damian comes back, there's a few ways it could happen. I just don't want to see a new Robin.

He's popping up in a couple of issues of Batwoman, 18 and 20 I think. You'll maybe get the conversation you're looking for there.

I agree, I'm glad she's not a part of this. It wouldn't make much sense, and I'd rather she kept her distance from the family.

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FadeToBlackBolt

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#35  Edited By FadeToBlackBolt

@Vitaeleous said:

Yes, five stages of grief. Remember when comics used to be reverent? Remember when we as readers and creators used to care about the characters we loved inside these pages? Remember when writers who gave a shit stayed with a series for a decade-and-a-half, dedicated to the life of a single hero? So yeah, five stages of grief. Fictional or not, Bruce is a father who has lost a son, and fictional or not we owe him time to grieve.

Yes. Organic grief. Not an issue per stage shoe-horned in thematic story. I have no problem with Bruce grieving, I believe it's a necessity, I have a problem with falling onto the 5 Stages because it's a crutch.

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Vincie_Pooh

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#36  Edited By Vincie_Pooh

@ccraft said:

1. Denial

#19: Batman and Red Robin

I get this, RR will probably be a little harsh on Bruce.

2. Anger

#20: Batman and Red Hood

I definitely see this, RH is going to be really harsh on Bruce. I can't wait.

3. Bargaining

#21: Batman and Batgirl

I feel like this should have been switched with Tim Drake.

[If only we had tried to be a better person toward them…]

4. Depressing

#22: Batman and Catwoman

I really hope he tells Catwoman his secret identity, like in HUSH.

5. Acceptance

#23: Batman and Nightwing

This will probably be the saddest issue...

Love this.

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the_tree

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#37  Edited By the_tree

Looks like I'm dropping a book.

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Vitaeleous

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#38  Edited By Vitaeleous

@FadeToBlackBolt: Alright, I agree with you there. I think in some ways it's a necessary evil due to the serial format of comics. It's not even as smooth as a TV show; we aren't getting installations once a week, we're getting them once a month. And until the story is collected as a TPB there isn't much allowance for organic character development. I'm with you; the Five Stages feels a bit forced and contrived. But at least he gets to grieve.

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#39  Edited By xblah_blahx

I posted this yesterday. You're behind the ball comicvine. http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion/1/new-information-about-the-batman-and-robin-series/754561/

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StMichalofWilson

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#40  Edited By StMichalofWilson

@ccraft said:

1. Denial

#19: Batman and Red Robin

I get this, RR will probably be a little harsh on Bruce.

2. Anger

#20: Batman and Red Hood

I definitely see this, RH is going to be really harsh on Bruce. I can't wait.

3. Bargaining

#21: Batman and Batgirl

I feel like this should have been switched with Tim Drake.

[If only we had tried to be a better person toward them…]

4. Depressing

#22: Batman and Catwoman

I really hope he tells Catwoman his secret identity, like in HUSH.

5. Acceptance

#23: Batman and Nightwing

This will probably be the saddest issue...

Interesting

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Phaedrusgr

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#41  Edited By Phaedrusgr

@V_Scarlotte_Rose: No, no. I said I'd love to see Huntress' participation, but it wouldn't be possible and you gave me hope, saying it's possible etc etc. That's all! ;)

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ccraft

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#42  Edited By ccraft

@DurararaFTW: This seems more suited to be called DOTF

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DEGRAAF

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#43  Edited By DEGRAAF

@ccraft said:

Well put, I'm glad you agree with Bruce showing Catwoman his identity, I just hope it's handled well. I'm really looking forward to see how this plays out with the rest of the Bat Family. Although I'm glad Batwoman isn't apart of this, I'd really like to see what Bruce thinks of Batwoman, and in his state it would be more interesting.

But I'm worried about what Peter Tomasi said about a new Robin. "I will say that I didn't want to take the usual road that's been traveled when it comes to the 'Batman needs a Robin' angle," I'm glad he's not taking the same route, but I hope some how Damian comes back, there's a few ways it could happen. I just don't want to see a new Robin.

The way i took that is that he didn't want Batman to grieve and then find a new Robin but maybe stay a solo hero without a side kick for a while (even if that means he fights along other characters of the bat family)

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feargalr

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#44  Edited By feargalr

@entropy_aegis said:

That's the entire family right there,so much for DOTF.@feargalr said:

@TheRobberBarron said:

There is nothing they can do to justify Damian's death..I don't care for the five stages or Grant Morrison any longer...if anything Bruce should be suicidal after facing the court, Leviathan , Joker , and loosing his son. I know this is comic books but believing Batman is going to be ok at any point would be a joke and he better not be in Justice League.

I agree... mostly.

There's been way too many huge stories happening in Batman lately, having the court and joker back to back was a mistake IMO, both were great stories but it was too much too fast, especially with the Batman Inc. stuff too. Like Batman has basically been questioning everything he thought he knew every other week now. Then again perhaps this is building up to a bigger story or something... I hope...

I also think having Death Of The Family and Damian dying so close together, but completely separate, was a big mistake, it takes away a lot of weight or something from Death Of The Family.

But I'll be reading these, Tomasi is a good guy and he writes the best Damian IMO... no... actually he wrote the best Damian... :(

Um no he writes Damian incomplete,he gets the insecure child looking for approval part but completely downplays the aristocrat in Damian,Morrison writes the best Damian followed by Bryan Q Miller,Joshua Williamson and Paul Dini.

Umm well actually that's my opinion so... yeah he writes the best Damian IMO

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powerhouse1122

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#45  Edited By powerhouse1122

All great Ideas. Have nothing against about these things.

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Mbecks14

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#46  Edited By Mbecks14

I am still extremely sad/butthurt over Damian's death, but the title has been good, so I have hope that they'll be able to keep it interesting.

@Outside_85 said:

Only mildly interested in seeing how Tomasi (or anyone else to be precise) writes the trainwreck that is Tim Drake.

True that. Maybe they'll be able to fix him?

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Outside_85

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#47  Edited By Outside_85

@Mbecks14 said:

@Outside_85 said:

Only mildly interested in seeing how Tomasi (or anyone else to be precise) writes the trainwreck that is Tim Drake.

True that. Maybe they'll be able to fix him?

Honestly I doubt whatever it was Joker did to Tim and Jason will be allowed to pass as easily as the rest of DotF. He probably could fix him, but I don't think DC will allow it.

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Trodorne

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#48  Edited By Trodorne

@ccraft said:

5. Acceptance

#23: Batman and Nightwing

This will probably be the saddest issue...

It will and I am definitely choked right now to even want to pick it up.

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DarklyDreamingDeadpool

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damian was the only reason i read batman and robin, so i'm gonna drop this book i guess. i miss you damian.....

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evilvegeta74

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#50  Edited By evilvegeta74

Bring back Damian!

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