So much hate at female Thor...just for being female...

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HexThis

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I understand why a character being replaced, regardless of whomever is replacing them, is controversial. But I feel like with this new Thor people are more mad that she's female than anything else. It's so funny to me how patriarchal the response to it has been. "Thor is the son of Odin, she can't be the son of Odin. She's a girl"....well, who's saying she is the son of Odin? We have no idea how she acquires her power or why she refers to herself as Thor. Loki was girl but since he's something of the sissy villain trope, that's all well and good to everyone. But masculine, legendary, epic Thor? A woman? BLASPHEMY! It must be a Disney conspiracy because god knows Disney is just always trying to push this empowered feminist agenda with all of their lovesick princesses who, if they have any power at all, are afraid of it. What if people hated the new Cap because Captain America is classically known to be an Aryan man? Would that be acceptable? Of course not. But the woman who dares to take Thor's namesake is suddenly subject to more scrutiny than anybody else. Why is that an acceptable prejudice?

We know absolutely nothing about her. And, by the way, no need to leave tears on your pillow over this. Thor still is a blockbuster star of the movies with multiple iterations in cartoons and gaming, plenty of merchandise...he also still has that mythological backdrop that goes back for lifetimes too. But the presence of a Thor with a vagina in comics is just so threatening. I sometimes have such hope that other comicbook fans are more enlightened than they're given credit for, that if we just moved a few female superheroes into the girl's section of Toys R' Us, we would see that girls also aspire to be heroic too. But things like this have me thinking a lot of people are stuck with these almost medieval values. It's really disappointing.

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deactivated-5edd330f57b65

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I don't see a problem with being upset because Thor is being replaced by a girl. Imagine a male wonder woman. Wonder woman fans, especially female ones would be upset.

And besides, there are many other reasons besides her being a girl that make this move bad. Like nick fury, who is irrelevant and unimportant to Thor and his history being the one to make him unworthy. Like it happening as an afterthought in original sin and not getting much attention, instead of happening in Thor's book. Like Thor being unworthy again at all, despite all the stories showing his worthiness. There's also the fact that it happened with a whisper that marvel won't even let us know what was said at this point. And it's interrupting what is the best thor run since JMS, if not better. I guess marvel likes passing Thor's supposedly "special" hammer around to someone else every few years.

Marvel said they are doing this to appeal to female readers. That's pretty upsetting, to have Thor lose his hammer and own series just to appeal to a few female readers. Female characters don't need to try to be male characters. They should be their own, original character and not ride the coattails of other more popular males.

Female characters are awesome. However, when a male character is pushed to the side and stripped of his, in this case hammer, for a female character its upsetting. Just like how whenever a male character is pushed over a female character people complain.

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Tyger

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#3  Edited By Tyger

I was hoping to see, between Uncanny Avengers and 10th Realm, Thor 'snap' and go postal, and have to regain his 'worthiness'. The Nick Fury bit was just .... disappointing.

Also, 'replacement' heroes have never gone over that well. (Death of Superman, Clone Saga, Knightfall, Thunderstrike.) It's rare that the replacement does well enough to stick.

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Squalleon

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Why do everyone turns it into a sexist, racist or another ist thing like that?
I don't think anyone liked when Thor was replaced by Thunderstrike either. I think the main problem is that this is obviously a PR stunt, how rediculous it has been handled up until now and how she goes by the name "Thor". Of couse I don't follow that topic a lot so I speak mostly for myself.

Personally I believe the "Superior Iron Man" is the worst change until now because that only confirmed my fears that "Superior" is actually a trend.

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Twinblock

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I don't hate female hehe

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NaveTorment

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I think this is an important thread, and while I'm always up for exposing patriarchal biases amongst commenters, I think that this is a different case with the female-Thor. It has less to do with the fact that we are seeing a woman replacing a man, and more to do with the fact that such a character-replacement is taking place at all. Gender-swaps make for fun and interesting fan-art, but the minute they become canon there is controversy. And why not? A character isn't gender-less, his or her gender is very much a part of their characterisation. It may not be Donald Blake / Thor Odinson who is replaced but the identity of Thor is being swapped and that's bound to be controversial. What I dislike about the whole matter is that we couldn't introduce the character as a single-standing female superhero on her own, and that she needed to take the male-defined Thor-identity, and therefore becoming merely a female-extension like Batgirl or She-Hulk.

Well, She-Thor wasn't needed as far as I'm concerned. She shouldn't have had to identify herself by her male-counterpart. That's where I have an issue.

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Claymore1998

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I don't think the hate is for it being a female the hate most likely is because she is replacing , albeit temporarily an already established and dearly beloved character in Thor.

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FearTheLiving

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I'm fine with it, Thor Odinson is still around and as long as the stories are interesting I don't see a point in complaining.

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Lvenger

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Most of the criticism on here for this move isn't because she's female. I know my reasons for disliking this move are hardly motivated by the fact the new Thor is a woman. You're entirely missing the point as to why fans are up in arms and the sexist haters are used as the stereotype and generalisation by Marvel as 'proof' that only the nasty fans don't like this change when really the long term and passionate fans have much better reasons for objecting to this.

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TDK_1997

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THe complaining isn;t about the fact that she is a female but because that is quick stupid gimmick from Marvel just to get something new out and the fact that they are treating Thor like his name some kind of a mantle like the one of Captain America which is not true. I have no problem with female Thor since our beloved old friend Thor is still around but I do understand why people complain about this change Marvel and Aaron are trying to pull.

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Deathstroke02

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So much hate at Batman Affleck just for being Affleck.

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Tyger

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#12  Edited By Tyger

So much hate at Batman Affleck just for being Affleck.

Everyone hates the replacement.
Everyone hates the replacement.

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Shebba

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THIS I didn't know. What else would there be? A Mrs DooM? lol

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KittyParker13

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Ivar_The_Boneless

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@hexthis: I see your point but why are you not concerned that she will be an imitation of the original character and that is not what 21 century women should fight for, (in my opinion).

In the present women can survive by their own achievements, they can live their own life, they don't need to live the life of other persons to succeed.

As big Thor fan mythological and comics i don't like this idea from marvel because they put publicity in first place, making the character Thor that is a birth name, a forced mantle that doesn't fit mythology and Marvel comics past from the character, Beta Ray Bill was worthy & wielded Mjolnir, but never said he was Thor, why she can't go by her own name like Bill?

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4U2NV

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Thor female? well this is domented

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HAWK2916

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I think its a stupid idea. Thor will always be a guy. This shouldnt even happen. I'd rather all the creativity go into the new Angela series not pulling something like en this out of their collective asses. Ialso happen to be a black man and I hate the Iea of Falcon being Captain America. If anything whats sexist or racist is trying to so called throw a bone or appease a certain group of people by these little gimmicks. Why not just give bigger roles to female characters or minority character as opposed to changing the classics? Seems to me like a setup to fail so they can say " see we tried, but it didnt work"

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Allaric

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#18  Edited By Allaric

@hexthis:

Oh yes !!! Because there are no female superheroes are there? There is no one named Valkyrie or anyone named Storm or anyone named Rogue or anyone named Emma Frost or anyone named Jean Grey or anyone named Phoenix or anyone named (place her name here) freaking dozens of times over so yes let's high jack the most masculine superhero put a dress on him and call it feminism because we all know females can't get anywhere on their own, they all need a man to do all the work for them and we will just ignore the blatant crass commercialism of the entire fiasco and call anyone who doesn't go along with it a male chauvinistic bigot as a way to shut up any critics that see through the pathetically disguised PR stunt. /sarcasm off

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fenixREVOLUTION

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I am looking forward to it. I hope she gets a fair shake and a long quality run, I'm sure Aaron is capable.

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deactivated-611928878d365

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It just doesn't make sense since Thor is still around. It's not a title, it's his name. Can't she just use her own name. I think it could be one of his grand-daughters.

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MartianManhunterIsBetterThanCyborg

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Why not push one of their other female characters like Captain Marvel, Spiderwoman, Tigra, Jessica Jones, etc?
Inevitably, the male Thor will return, especially when his new movie comes out.

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Azalae

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A female Thor? Oh good lord.

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slimj87d

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This is BS, make it man or woman, Asian, Black or any race and we'd still hate it.

The hate is at Marvel promoting temporary diverse status quo instead of coming up with or promoting diverse characters who have their own identities.

You got it all wrong OP.

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lordraiden

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Your op title is misleading, I don't believe people hate the fact that she's female, it's the way they went about it, and there has already been a female version of Thor, so it's nothing really new!

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AwesomePerson

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I don't hate the new Thor because she's female... I hate Marvel for think that Thor's name is now a mantle...

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MakkyD

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#26  Edited By MakkyD

@hexthis: You know bringing up sexism where it isn't there just because it involves a woman is just as sexist, right?

Her being female isn't the problem, if the several above comments showing their reasons for disliking it doesn't convince you otherwise.

For starters, her being female isn't the reason why she doesn't deserve the name of Thor. It just doesnt make sense. It'd be like Spiderman passing down the name of Peter Parker or Captain America passing down Steve Rogers. Thor Odinson is his name, not a superhero identity or mantle. Which bets the question, will Thor change his name now since it's apparently been inherited

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SurfingtheHighway

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People who are genuine fans of something don't want it to change. Thor being an asian or african male would have been as much of a problem to fans of the character.

What I don't get is: didn't Beta Ray Bill gain his own hammer, as well as Thor's powers without replacing the titular character? Why is this woman taking Thor's place?

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the_stegman

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#28 the_stegman  Moderator

I'm fine with it, Thor Odinson is still around and as long as the stories are interesting I don't see a point in complaining.

This. Completely this.

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SC

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#29 SC  Moderator

I think people are more mad at their assumptions. Assumptions that they are entitled to have, but maybe wrong or inaccurate about. Though if you say that to some of them they may get offended as many prefer the idea that they are annoyed and mad at the facts they have about these changes, because facts to many people sound more valid and impressive than assumptions and we wouldn't want people to think such criticisms were just the results of fickle reactions and anxious assumptions or ignorance about changes, that might imply some sort of shortcoming.

Assumptions that could also be validated or proven accurate mind you, we will just have to wait and see for Jason Aaron to have some sort of nervous break down and spill the details about how those feminists kidnapped him and threatened to cut off his beard unless he demanded that Thor turn into a girl… those damn feminists and the PC brigade disrespecting men and woman and Thor for their agenda's **shakes fist** don't they know that they should chose Sif and called her Sif instead of a man's name and that the book wouldn't sell as much or make mainstream news and we would rather have the book fail with honor and be cancelled than have Jason Aaron continue to impress with his Thor writing! Marvel those noobs… what do they even know about comics!

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RKT

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#30  Edited By RKT

@sc: great text and argument, I don't have anything against the new character being a worthy female, but i hope a plot without big holes, and it's true very true, i m making assumptions and more assumptions, i guess being a fan don't let me see things from out of the box.

Your point is crucial she will be called Thor for the sales, but i still hope that wasn't the only objective of this change, i still want a good story where calling her Thor makes sense, i was hoping for a Frigg time travel and call herself Thor in honor of the previous and unworthy owner (Grandfather), apparently by TGOT issue 25 preview it's not her.

I don't mind the change with a reasonable plot, but i still think that is wrong to consider Thor a mantle, a birth name never fits the mantle profile, Falcon will never be Steve Rogers only C. America, and i haven't read any valid argument that could prove that in fact Thor in marvel comics is a mantle.

Eric Masterson, (WasOdin who gaveThor's form and powers after the original was sealed in Eric's mind, to save Eric's life).

Beta Ray Bill (never call himself Thor).

Who is worthy will have the power of Thor not become Thor!

Aaron made a excellent run on Thor and like you said let's have faith. :)

@surfingthehighway said:

People who are genuine fans of something don't want it to change. Thor being an asian or african male would have been as much of a problem to fans of the character.

What I don't get is: didn't Beta Ray Bill gain his own hammer, as well as Thor's powers without replacing the titular character? Why is this woman taking Thor's place?

I don't like when Hollywood makes whitewashing to Asians, Africans etc, but i also think that is wrong to portray Thor as anything else that not Scandinavian, let's respect his origins, Thor is not a marvel original story, i think that the new character that marvel also will call Thor should have Scandinavian look.

After Original Sin event Thor is unworthy of mjolnir, that's why the new female will carry it, for now she doesn't need another hammer, because Thor can't pick mjolnir anymore. :)

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#31 SC  Moderator

@rkt: Thank you. Assumptions are fine, I made assumptions that I wouldn't like Fraction's Thor replacement story and I didn't, I made assumptions I wouldn't like Aaron's Gorr arc, I ended up liking it heh heh. I am making the assumption that Aaron's upcoming runs will be pretty good. I could be wrong.

If he insists that this is the story he wants to tell, I am not going to cynically second guess him, merely to support my own reaction. I respect his work and his integrity. Thats where I am at. I am a fan of Thor, I have read around 95 percent of his material as well as interviews and blogs from most of his writers and artists. Fans can still see outside the box, I think its more a matter of critical thinking and intellectual honesty. It is okay for people to not be a fan of something without trying to spend all their energy convincing the world that their dislike is supporting by absolute objective proof they are "right" - so to me you are valid with your points. As far as the mantle, well Thor is thousands of year old, if Steve Rogers lived for three thousand years and and in the future Steve Rogers was seen as a gender neutral name and had long outlasted the "Captain America" moniker, it wouldn't be that hard to envision great warriors and heroes eating to adopt the name Steve Rogers like a mantle. So the examples you give don't match. To me its actually a great honor that Thor is such a powerful and respected figure that his name has become like a mantle - not his position, not his god roll as thunderer, but his actual name. Thats power, thats prestige, as a Thor fan I am proud. Don't know the circumstance of why new characters calls herself that though, so might have to what a while as far as what they do and how everything is ultimately resolved.

Ultimately Marvel own Thor, at least their version. They could have him turn into a box of chocolates and it would be valid. Also Beta Ray Bill was referred to as Beta Ray Thor many times and is listed as such in various canon sources as an alias. Dargo Ktor was also Thor. Marvel owning the character and making it a mantle makes it mantle. Fans can disagree or view that as silly but doesn't change the canon or what the people who publish view and think about such things. As a fictional character its all in flux anyway, or at least potentially so.

I agree, criticizing an idea is fine, I do it all the time myself, but execution might be a different matter. Am curious to see what Aaron does. Thank you again.

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Teerack

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#32  Edited By Teerack

You can't expect 95% of people from ages 15-20 to be able to form an intelligent thought and you're best just rolling your eyes at them. There is a reason these people can't vote and their options literally do not matter.

Hahaha I'm such an ass, but I'm also not wrong.

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RKT

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#33  Edited By RKT

@sc: You're welcome, i agree with almost everything in your argument, and i was not saying that others in the past weren't Thor substitutes, i was only saying that in my opinion technically the mantle profile only have a 100% fit if Thor (Odinson) didn't call anymore Thor, and the box of chocolates is true, and if they say i'ts a mantle a mantle will be, i just disagree with the fit (personal opinion), the plot will answer all this questions, in the end she never could go by her name because the book will not sell so well, but i think comics like movies of the present need to have different plot's from comics and movies from the past, yes we demand more story quality, and Aaron made a excellent run on TGOT, he knows how to do it, i really hope so!!!

Only a fool will not give Aaron a chance he deserves it by far, and it's stupid to want that the book fails, because original Thor is in the story and he will be worthy again in the future, i also read the interviews of Aaron and Alonso and their words were not the ones that long time Thor fans want to hear in first place, the expression " She will be the only Thor of M.U" is abusive, so i think is also reasonable to understand some long time Thor fans reactions.

The mother land of Thor (Norse God) (Scandinavia) is known for gender equality, and i think no other place like Asgard in marvel comics has so many female leads in comic books (Sif, Valkyrie, Angela and the new Thor female) .:)

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Super_SoldierXII

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#34  Edited By Super_SoldierXII

I disagree with the OP.

This is not a feminist issue unless they choose to read too much into things, and choose once again to turn it into one. Men have every right to voice their disappointment in such a change without women getting up in arms and calling it sexist.

Aside from many of the legit grievances already posted herein (with regards the story, Thor becoming unworthy more as a side note than anything else and the simplicity and situation in which he did become unworthy, given all he's done etc. etc.), I think the gripe many Thor fans have with him being replaced are for the most part sound, and have nothing to do with "empowering" or "depowering" women or any feminist issues at all whatsoever.

The Captain America comparison, for one thing, does not jive. Samuel Wilson is not Steve Rogers regardless whether he's sporting the shield or not or regardless the color of whose skin. Those who grew up idolizing "Captain America" and his heroic deeds have not seen Steve lose his penis and grow boobs all of a sudden, or transform into another human being altogether. Another hero is sporting the shield. Steve still remains (albeit Marvel has decided to age him and bench him for the time being).

Fans love Peter Parker every bit as much as they love Spider-Man.

Same holds true for Thor only he does not hold a double identity.

What's Thor's civilian name again?

Right.

Thor is Thor. A mythological icon. And whether or not feminist's can accept it or not, boys, male teens & men need their male role models to remain masculine to relate to on a masculine level. And there's nothing wrong with that. Hear that ladies? There is NOTHING wrong with strong masculinity and NOTHING wrong with men enjoying and reveling in theirs and enjoying it on display in the heroes they want to read about in their fantasy literature.

I swear most feminists won't be happy till all men are dominated and delegating to their rightful place at their boots, wearing skirts & female undergarments to adequately demonstrate just how admonished and ashamed about their masculinity and their penis' they need to be.

Male hero icons exhibit a brand of heroism they can relate to as men and aspire towards as men. Removing Thor's penis, and telling young men who've grown-up with said hero as their icon to say he should remain every bit as easy to relate to is absolutely insane, not to mention demeaning and emasculating.

That said, knowing that Thor remains Thor, and that what is really happening is a woman is being deemed worthy enough to wield Mjolnir is definitely A-OK in my books. And here's the kicker ladies; *wanting our male heroes to keep their penis's does NOT equate not likewise enjoying, appreciating and feeling equally inspired by strong female antagonists* Mmkay? Had they simply erased decades of Thor being a male, and replaced him with a female instead (by some reality warping dumb story trope) then that would have been something else entirely.

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jevon101

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I don't like the direction Marvel is heading. Instead of better/ more creative storyline they are going for short term sales via shock value. Ask WCW during the attitude era how that works out. Female Thor's and gay black spiderman aren't very creative IMO.

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Psy_chrometer

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I'm not against it, but are they related? Like brother and sister or something? Oh even cousin? This is new to me.

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arthurkerr

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because Female Thor is a insult to readers , a cheep way out. Only one Thor please and keep him a him.

They keep making cheep knock offs of characters and wondering why people walk away from super hero movies and comics when it all gets out of hand and crazy and that says something for comics.

You have to have some type of stable ground or nothing works at all.

I would never touch a single book or story with this female Thor because it just destroys all potential for any character and it says nothing you support will they show any kind of respect for.

You can waste your money on far better things if this is the case when they start ignoring fans and saying we hear you but we just do not care.

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deactivated-097092725

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We are getting closer and closer to the reveal. Just the previews of the issues are getting me freaked out.

I'm not against it, but are they related? Like brother and sister or something? Oh even cousin? This is new to me.

We have no idea, as of yet. Lots of theories, but nothing concrete. I don't believe they will be related, though.

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4Thor

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#39  Edited By 4Thor

@ms-lola:

December New Thor Book solicitation

• Lifting the enchanted hammer Mjolnir has transformed a mysterious woman into an all-new version of the mighty Thor.

• But what happens when she’s separated from that hammer?

• Plus, Frost Giants! ROXXON! And oh yeah, whatever happened to the guy who used to carry that hammer?

Human ??? Mjolnir is on the moon but Jane Foster leave Midgard with the Asgardians!

I think no Thor fan is thrilled with this change and how Marvel made it, but if the new female Thor is human and with mjolnir transforms her look into Thor look (blonde hair), i really don't know what to think? Because mjolnir only gives you the power of Thor not his look, Beta Ray Bill was always himself look and personality!

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deactivated-097092725

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@4thor said:

@ms-lola:

December New Thor Book solicitation

• Lifting the enchanted hammer Mjolnir has transformed a mysterious woman into an all-new version of the mighty Thor.

• But what happens when she’s separated from that hammer?

• Plus, Frost Giants! ROXXON! And oh yeah, whatever happened to the guy who used to carry that hammer?

Human ??? Mjolnir is on the moon but Jane Foster leave Midgard with the Asgardians!

I think no Thor fan is thrilled with this change and how Marvel made it, but if the new female Thor is human and with mjolnir transforms her look into Thor look (blonde hair), i really don't know what to think? Because mjolnir only gives you the power of Thor not his look, Beta Ray Bill was always himself look and personality!

If she's human, how the heck was she able to walk on the moon and grab the Mjolnir in the first place? If it's Jane or Thor's latest fling who becomes the new Thor, then I am even less enthused. Still, I am trying to keep neutral, haha. It's getting harder and harder, though.

I agree with you about the appearance changing due to the Mjolnir. I had an idea going that Sif could suddenly go blonde (as that's her natural hair colour) if she were to become Thor, but great point about Beta Ray Bill (and everyone else who managed to hold the Mjolnir). In that case, why doesn't it change the person's gender to male? Loki is female, so it's not impossible, haha.

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4Thor

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#41  Edited By 4Thor

@ms-lola: I thought it was Frigg and i was starting to internalize this idea in my hardcore Thor fan mind, she is his granddaughter and in the future she has her own hammer, but in TGOT 25 she saw the female Thor in a book, and she was surprised like her sisters, time travel is tricky still cold be her, but I think this statements by marvel hint that she is not Asgardian and only the hammer transforms her in the female copy of the original Thor (blonde hair, female humans in Thor life are not blondes)! I Think if she was Asgardian Marvel won't use the word transforms, the walk on the moon problem it's really hard to fit on Jane or Roz, but if you read the Original Sin event you will notice that this was not planed from the beginning, the way Thor becomes unworthy with a whisper is very stupid and Aaron Interviews are not consistent from what happened in Thor Book final issue and the Tenth Ream event.

Aaron Interview on the female Thor...

Is this new Thor a character we've met already? Or is she a character we'll meet very soon?

Jason Aaron: Is the question of why Thor is no longer wielding Mjolnir something we'll see answered in books like "Thor & Loki: The Tenth Realm?" Or September's "Thor: God of Thunder" #25?

By the time we get to "Thor" #1 you'll have seen the answer to that. You'll see why Thor has become unworthy. We'll talk about that again in "Thor" #1. It's a very new reader-friendly issue, but it's also a continuation of everything I've been doing on "Thor: God of Thunder." So this is not me scrapping all the previous plans I had and starting over. This was kind of the idea from the get go. So everything was always moving towards Thor becoming unworthy and someone else having to pick up that hammer.

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deactivated-097092725

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@4thor: Yes, I was the same way about it being Frigg. I like your idea as well, and it would make the most sense but the part about her not being Asgardian? I don't get it. Plus, that CARELESS WHISPER of Fury to Thor. It's driving me a little crazy.

Thank you for the portion of Aaron's interview about the new Thor. I think that he insists this has been a part of his plan all along gives me some hope. Maybe not so much it becoming a female Thor, but Thor losing the Mjolnir. Looks like that was going to happen, no matter what. How that fits with what he has or had going on in his God of Thunder series, I can't quite get either.

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Psy_chrometer

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@ms-lola said:

We are getting closer and closer to the reveal. Just the previews of the issues are getting me freaked out.

@psy_chrometer said:

I'm not against it, but are they related? Like brother and sister or something? Oh even cousin? This is new to me.

We have no idea, as of yet. Lots of theories, but nothing concrete. I don't believe they will be related, though.

Oh ok. I was just wondering. Thanks

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Sky_Fire

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And who hates female?

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Philip333ify

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Forget Thor...Let Marvel transform Steve Rodgers into the New Sentry....

He deserves it.

Hopefully the real Thor will return.(My money stays where it is until then )

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killraven4334

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I had never not supported a Marvel title I read until this stunt, now its simply the pirate bay for me until they are worth paying for again.

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magnetic_eye

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I think people are upset that she has taken on the name of Thor. I don't have a problem about Thor becoming unworthy with someone else picking up the hammer. It's a temporary story-arc, but really this new worthy candidate should've had her own name.

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cmpunk4life

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i think that doing this is really going mess up the kids. they know thor as a man. now a woman? even my own neices and nephews asked me that question. i did my report back in high school on thor. ill stick to norse mythology.

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magnetic_eye

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i think that doing this is really going mess up the kids. they know thor as a man. now a woman? even my own neices and nephews asked me that question. i did my report back in high school on thor. ill stick to norse mythology.

It's funny, my 6 year old son asked me "why is Thor a girl instead of a boy"? Even he understood the concept of someone temporarily filling in for Thor, but as far as the name thing goes, he said......"that doesn't make sense". Wisdom out of the mouth of babes.

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Transformers1024

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I think it's a bit more than just being female..

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