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Off My Mind: How Far Should Green Arrow Go For Justice?

What happens when a hero kills?

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Have you read Justice League: Cry For Justice #7 yet? As you may know, the villain Prometheus caused a bit of havoc. Roy Harper lost his arm and besides the death of a bunch of people in Star City, there was also the death of a character that we all know. By now, it's most likely not a secret that Green Arrow served his own brand of justice at the end. The question is, how far should the Justice League go in delivering 'justice'?
This may fall in that area of characters undergoing radical changes in who they are. Villains may do vile things, but where should the line be drawn in bringing them to justice? You take a character like the Punisher, I don't know if many would call him a hero but he never set out to be one. A character like Green Arrow has been a hero. What can we call him now? What will the rest of the Justice League think when they discover what he's done? If a former hero crosses the line of killing, is it possible to go back? Dead is dead (well, maybe not in comics but you know what I mean). 
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Comics have gotten darker over the years. The 'gosh darn' days of crime fighting are long gone. The main focus of Cry For Justice was supposed to be about the Justice League actually getting justice for those that were harmed. Should the Justice League take a harder route? If villains are becoming deadlier, should the team change their tactics to deal with them? What would then be the difference between "justice" and "vengeance"?
What are your thoughts on the matter? Was Ollie justified in taking matters into his own hands? Should Ollie be held accountable for what he did? Does having the power and responsibility that they do justify them being above the law? Will Green Arrow ever be the hero he used to be or has he gone down a path he can't return from?

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Avatar image for roninkane
Posted By RoninKane

 One thing right off the bat is that GA has already tried to kill Pormetheus before,(Look it up in "HUSH RETURNS"). Prometheus was a millisecond away from a green arrow through his skull, but Hush pulled his head out of the way. You can say that GA killed him because of Roy and Lian but he has wanted to do it for some time, more form himself than for anyone else. Let' s put it out there, "Green Arrow is a DOUCHE!" He always has been. That fact is always sugar coated with phrases like "he is more human", "he is an everyman hero", "he is more real". NO! He resents the fact that he is not as smart as other heroes like batman, has no powers like superman, and has been a selfish, selfserving dick, espeically to those closest to him. I say let him kill and become the black sheep of the DC heroes, it would just add to that already huge chip on his shoulder. The funny thing is that Green Arrow could actually kill all of his rogues gallery and really no one would miss them, maybe Merlyn. 


Avatar image for lb70145
Posted By lb70145

Heroes who kill are not truly heroes. They are almost as bad as the villain they kill. Taking another life is unforgivable. Taking the life of one who has taken lives is not justified.

Avatar image for crimsonspider89
Posted By crimsonspider89

GA will either have to become an anti hero or earn the respect of his peers back with dutiful work and respect. How it always has been, make him into an antihero.

Avatar image for cadaver
Posted By cadaver
@Final Arrow said:
" This should come as no surpise to any Green Arrow fan. Ollie has killed to protect his family before (BC, In Long Bow Hunter) and this time he was pushed to the edge. I wonder if they are taking GA back down the darker path they had him on in the  the early 90's when he moved fro star city the first time. I think given what has happend he took the right course of action, if not Roy would have done it anyway and Roy has to much to deal with right now. As for the JLA I don't know this may split them down the middle much like Idenity Crisis. Ollie has a lot of friends who will back him (Hal, BC) but how far will they go to protect him from the other leaugers!! "
GA is a killer, and the league should know this, but they turn their backs on things like this when it is convenient. The whole thing about Identity Crisis proves this. Lobotomizing villains was worse than just killing them, yet they chose not to confront it. I'm glad GA wacked Prometheus. I'm an old fan of GA and have been really bored with the current title, the writers suck. Maybe now it will get interesting again, and I can justify still buying it. Hope Roy recovers, sucks that they are two archers down in team arrow right now (Connor was messed up way back when). To my knowledge speedy still is HIV positive, and can't be living too long herself. The Arrow legacy is not  doing too well...
Avatar image for mbecks14
Posted By Mbecks14
@LB70145 said:
" Heroes who kill are not truly heroes. They are almost as bad as the villain they kill. Taking another life is unforgivable. Taking the life of one who has taken lives is not justified. "
i agree. i hate this path that Green Arrow is going down.
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Edited By brc2000

@Mbecks14 said:

" @LB70145 said:

" Heroes who kill are not truly heroes. They are almost as bad as the villain they kill. Taking another life is unforgivable. Taking the life of one who has taken lives is not justified. "
i agree. i hate this path that Green Arrow is going down. "
Nothing wrong with that. It makes a hell lot more sense to kill someone who was almost impossible to contain, killed a child along with other heroes and took out an entire city that just put him in prison where he'd likely escape. When people kile John Mcclain kill people in movies, do people really care? Unlike people like Spider-man and Superman, Green Arrow is an ordinary human. People whine about DC heroes being boy scouts and them whine some more when they get more realistic. Also he's killed before. You've obviously never read any Green Arrow before.
I suppose cops and soldiers who are forced to kill aren't heroes either?
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Posted By ahumancartoon

I don't think what Ollie did was right....but prometheus never looked better.

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Posted By The WeatherMan

Just finished reading it. I didn't really liked the story. The dialogue was poorly written, I couldn't feel the personalities of any of the heroes through their dialogue. I pretty much didn't care for Bill and Starman's part of the story and nothing was done to make you really care for them. The situation felt tacked on, like "people are dying, heroes to the rescue". I really wanted to like Prometheus as a villain but... he took out the League by standing in one spot, talking to his suit and firing off "special" bullets... Did not impress me at all. When Deathstroke took on the League in Identity Crisis, I believed the fight, I believed that Deathstroke could make it all happen, Prometheus came off as a joke. If he can predict and counter all of Justice League's moves, why didn't have a countermeasure for when someone invades his lair?  
The art looked really good, I enjoyed the way all of the characters were drawn. That was the only good thing about the story. 5/10.
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Posted By lb70145
@brc2000:@The WeatherMan: Cops and Soldiers are never forced to kill. The choice to kill was not given to them, that was circumstance if they chose to kill. Otherwise, no I don't consider every cop and soldier a hero. Call me unpatriotic but talk to a cop or soldier who has killed. They do not feel like heroes for taking the life of another even if that person did not deserve life. The doing of good is different from preventing evil. Those two concepts are not the same. Maybe you should read some Captain America, Spider-Man, Batman, Superman, or maybe you should actually read your comics. This message is repeated in every superhero comic in existence.

 Batman is an ordinary human too. But Batman NEVER EVER kills. The true power that people like Batman have is to be able to restrain themselves from killing. That restraint is what gives Batman power. All Green Arrow is to me now, is a communist with a bow. He no longer processes that power of  restraint. Therefore, I no longer have respect for that character.
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Posted By The WeatherMan

All I wanna say about Green Arrow is... I don't really approve it, but I understand.
Avatar image for gravesp
Posted By GraveSp

Batman tried to kill Darkseid so there's that.  
Avatar image for lb70145
Posted By lb70145
@GraveSp: He didn't kill him now did he. Darkseid is still going about in some kind of limbo between reality, time, and the multiverse.
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Edited By Secret Identity

First, i'd like to say that some of these comments are hilarious! I won't say which ones because that would be unfair on those saying them and i don't wish to offend anyone.  
Now, GA has indeed killed before and indeed he was a part of a GROUP of people who changed someones personality. It wasn't just down to him that time we must all remember. GA is an antihero which is fair enough, he even says as much when he says that deep down he's not a hero, he's a hunter. Also, he's a knob and he knows it. He's got a self hatred that is part of his character, that disdain for himself means he does things that he knows other heroes wouldn't because he doesn't think of the consequences to himself. He's driven by emotion. "Making the hard choices" and all that.
And that is possibly the biggest thing about him as a character. If he's afraid he runs (why he ran from his responsibilities when Connor was born), if he's depressed(or lonely or whatever) he sleeps around, he's always been a violent character. Beating on common thugs to get info etc etc. Now he's been emotionally destroyed (again) and he's bloody well pissed off about it so he goes out and kills the guy responsible for it. He knows he's going to get in trouble but he also knows he's saved countless others from becoming his prey. Right and wrong doesn't even come into it in his head. This was a NEED as far as he can see. It may well be that on reflection at a later date he regrets it (as he does about leaving Roy and trotting off around the world with Hal and for sleeping around whilst seeing Dinah and for a whole host of other things). This brings us to another very important aspect of GA, pride. His pride makes it very hard for him to admit to his wrongdoings or his regrets, even if his inner monologue tells us (the joyous comic reader) otherwise. 
So, in short. GA killed, he lied, he cheated, he abandoned those around him (although he redeemed himself on most counts) but he is still a hero to those he has saved from rape, thievery, abuse, violence and danger. Some will argue that that makes him more human, others will argue it makes him a "Douche" (fncking hate that word. Don't use it it not cool.) or a bastard. As far as i'm concerned that's the point. He walks that line. It makes him interesting and it's the reason i find him such a good character to read. Sometimes he's an absolute knob, other times he's a gent and a hero.  
My last point is just to say that comparing GA to Bats is a bad idea. Because those who remember the old GA will know he was basically just Batman light. Or Batman with arrows. (Arrowcave, arrow mobile, trick arrows etc). He has since successfully been moved away from that as in some drastic ways. He's now very driven by emotions and the idea that he's a hero because he needed an outlet for his boredom and it made him feel useful. That sort of thing anyways. Batman couldn't be any more different. The point of him is he gave up being emotional to take on evil and save those around him from suffering as he had. Batman is a logical creature of restraint and knowledge. GA is a emotional creature of excess and righteousness. Their personalities are completely juxtaposed.

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Posted By Bubbly Bunny

What really pisses me off is that heroes shouldn't kill. I know comics have gotten darker over the ages but this is utter bullshit. We have Flash snapping the Reverse Flash's neck and then going oh but it was to save Iris. He is the fucking fastest man alive and that's all he can think of then we have Green Arrow some how defying everything and killing Prometheus who is wearing a god damn helmet! I mean i understand if in the harshest of situations they have to kill but really. Heroes shouldn't kill its not what they do. I mean Wonder Woman is the last person i expected to end up being a killer. Look maybe it makes a good plot sometimes but this is just ridiculous. Most heroes are just as bad as the villains. And then they come up with some lame ass excuse. Gay for Justice was terrible series. And was Lian dying really necessary. The worst part is it wasn't even Roy who got revenge it was Ollie. Really?! Really?!

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Posted By wolverine9981

O.k.  Keep it real,if someone murdered your grandchild and crippled your son what would you do? For those who've had the luxury of never having had some scum bag destroy your family,BELIEVE ME revenge can posses you.  If GA continues down this road I could see him hooking up with cheshire(lians mom) and start going down a very dark road unless the love of his friends an fam can redeem him.

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Posted By warcorpse

he had every right to seek vengeance

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Posted By warcorpse

he had every right to seek vengeance

Avatar image for drone_devil
Edited By drone.devil

didn't read it, but uh..... 
 yeah he should have killed him. 
It's great to see "heroes" going all old testament on some mother f******. 
And Batman kinda WAS a killer in the olden days......that all changed and got phased out though. 
But Bruce is really quite the enabler.  I don't believe that he doesn't kill out of some sense of morality.  I don't care how the writers spin it.  He ALLOWS these maniacs to live and to continue to spread chaos.  It would be for the greater good if he just said "f*** it" and killed someone like Zsasz for instance.  That would be a REAL sacrifice, to put his morals aside for the sake of society's well being.  Instead he'd rather fulfill his own violent needs whilst still serving on the side of "good".  Without his rogues gallery he'd probably end up like Dr. Doom or something....presiding over his kingdom of Gotham City, a land where crime is snuffed out in an I guess maybe he actually IS thinking of the greater good....hmmph.
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Posted By I Am Godzilla

I think its okay for a hero to kill every once in a while, as long as its necessary.

Avatar image for curleyman182155
Posted By Curleyman182155

I think Green Arrow did a good thing, I always love seeing this character going to the edge of chaos and starting to go renegade. Its the way it should be. Especially after what happened to Roy. 

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Edited By Lustwish

ok did I not start a thread similar to this a couple of weeks ago? or was I missing a long readout with pictures?

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Edited By arrowfan237
Me. I agree that comics have gotten darker over he years but in Adventure Comics #259 he said "I NEVER HAVE and NEVER WILL, draw an arrowto kill anybody.". This was almost the code of his crimefighting career Once you break that code everything comes tumbling apart. While other heroes have killed it really shook me when he killed Prometheus because here I saw my favorite hero killing someone in cold blood. As much as I idolize Green Arrow I have to agree with the judge's verdict. He needed to be punished. But it also needed to be done to avenge Red Arrow. I think Red Arrow will have to shoot just like Green Arrow did in the Dark Night Returns.CURSE YOU BLACK CANARY FOR BREAKING THAT POOR MAN'S HEART.
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Posted By ChristopherWilliams

Green Arrow did what he had to do and that was take out the madman that was causing havoc.
Avatar image for captaincockblock
Posted By CaptainCockblock

I hated Cry for Justice. The constant repetition of the word "justice" without any definition as to what they mean, the unexplained change in character that allowed them to simply torture people (with explanation, it could've been interesting) and the unceremonious murder of Lian Harper just pushed me over the edge. As for Green Arrow killing Prometheus, it didn't feel right. It just felt like the same disappointment as watching a family member who's recovering from alcoholism fall off the wagon.

Avatar image for moonsault86
Posted By moonsault86
@Jake Fury: 
Batman's whole premise is about not taking a life because he grew up orphan due to the traumatic murder of both of his parents at a young age. It was then when he made a firm stand never to take a life. I don't recall Oliver ever making the same stand, although I have only read very little of GA.
I recall the animated movie Under the Red Hood, on the climax and the confrontation where Jason/Hood  accuses Batman of not avenging him and not killing the Joker and goes on to number the Joker's past crimes. I always felt Jason had a good solid argument here. Batman should have stopped the Joker for all the stuff that he has done because he has never stopped or showed any remorse and to him Arkham is a vacation house.
God knows who the Joker is going to kill next, Hell, he could probably nuke gotham  and killed every member of Bat's family in the process and Batman will still just throw him back to Arkham. 
Prometheus was not innocent, he was a mass murderer who could take down Shiva in 3 seconds flat.
Avatar image for knightsofdarkness2
Edited By Knightsofdarkness2

@cellywyn said:

Ollie is absolutely justified in what he did. Prometheus attacked his family. He attacked Roy, whose practically Ollie's son, and he killed his granddaughter. Ollie is human and he's entitled to go through the motions. Prometheus deserved to die.


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