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New Wonder Woman Costume Revealed

Get ready for another edition of the Great Wonder Woman Costume Debate to begin.

The last time Wonder Woman got a new costume (pants and a jacket), there was quite a commotion. People are often resistant to change. It turns out in WONDER WOMAN #41, on sale in June after Convergence, she'll be getting a new look. HitFix has revealed the solicit for the issue.

No Caption Provided

WONDER WOMAN #41

Written by MEREDITH FINCH

Art and cover by DAVID FINCH and

JONATHAN GLAPION

THE JOKER Variant cover by BRIAN BOLLAND

On sale JUNE 17 • 32 pg, FC, $3.99 US RATED T

Retailers: This issue will ship with two covers. Please see the order form for details.

A daring new direction begins with the arrival of a brand-new villain! But while he may be new to us, he’s not new to the world he seeks to tame. And speaking of villains, Donna Troy’s quest to destroy Wonder Woman ratchets up another gear (if that’s even possible!), while the games of the Gods bring dark portents to the ultimate Amazon!

Our immediate reaction is it has a lot of red. It really has a patriotic feel to it. Hopefully those wrist spikes are removable. Change is fine. There's no reason Wonder Woman shouldn't have more than one outfit. There's no reason she has to wear the same exact outfit every single time she goes out. We particularly dig Jason Fabok's recent weak in the pages of JUSTICE LEAGUE.

No Caption Provided

Hopefully we haven't seen the last of that.

What do you think of the new outfit?

602 Comments

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FoamBorn

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@csg_cl said:

@foamborn: it doesn't ellude me that cheesecake exists. I've never liked it, but the solution isn't to flip to the other side of the pendulum and abandon core visual elements of the character. WW is sexy, it's fundamental to her character to be a beautiful woman. Since day one Marston used that as part of his platform for women being the equal (or as he believed more than equal$ to men. Instead of putting a shame label on sexiness an artist should be considering how to best embrace it and make it beautiful rather than hiding it in a little closet.

Yeah but it was Finch/DC that came up with this outfit, it's all on them, don't pin it on the so called "loud minorities". These supposedly "insecure, prudish, body-conscious people" that collude to cover up women is the same group that's gonna storm into the comic shops today to get Jem and the Holograms, notwithstanding the fact that those 4 or 5 teenage girls are not exactly dressed for church either.

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SCORPIO_CASSADINE

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Hey what about this? http://shirtless-superheroes.blogspot.com/

Or this? https://www.pinterest.com/anthair/superhero-beefcake/

Or this? http://perezhilton.com/galleries/18-hottest-shirtless-superheroes/?id=384085#.VRLhLsl1yB4

Or this? http://shirtlesssuperheros.tumblr.com/

Or this? http://jezebel.com/5820532/with-great-beefcake-the-complete-guide-to-shirtlessness-in-marvel-superhero-movies

Wassup with that?

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2cool4fun

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kriminal

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More skin

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deactivated-59dfd33ed3601

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I'm not going to argue with some 40 years old virgins about whether or not Wonder Woman should be covered up or not. I personally don't care what she's is wearing. I read her comics out of interest not to catch a erection from her being half dressed. Jeez, some people need to simmer down and catch a break.

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Frozen

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@galacticfork:

Again, it wouldn't be "limiting Wonder Woman's sexuality" to readers. See... this is what you're not getting. Wonder Woman's sexuality is not involved there in any direction what so ever. More accurately the artist would be limiting the intrusion of his own sexuality into his art, OR limiting his attempts to appeal to his audience's sexualty by the use of particular imagery.

Again, stop intentionally misinterpreting and skewing my points. It is both tiring and irritating. A broader point of mine was that it's an attempt to limit attractive appeal to the audience, I said this by saying: then it is also the male artist's desire to limit Wonder Woman's sexuality to readers. By 'sexuality', I refer to capacity for sexual feelings; synonymous with sexiness. I do not refer to orientation. The mistake however is that the artists here see the costume as the problem, hence attempting to limit whatever arousing appeal she may have by covering her up is puritan in disguise. That 'imagery' you refer to is Wonder Woman, as a character --- I'll continue to expand upon this point in my next paragraph.

I'm not saying there is no way for the artist to attempt to provide a character her (or his) own sexuality independent of the artist or the audience. There definitely is, but if you look at the part of my quote (I'm not sure why you screencapped and highlighted instead of just blockquoted...is it supposed to be an accusation that I'd change what I said?) you cut out in that first image, I pointed out that if it was really about Wonder Woman, why is her imagery so often sexualized for the audience? Once the artist makes the character's image about his\her or the audience's audience's sexuality rather than the character, it strips the character of any semblance of their own sexuality, making them a simple object... There might just be a word for that... I wish I could think of it. Ohhhh objectification! Silly me.

Wonder Woman can be objectified. Any male character can be objectified too. What you are not understanding, and what I need to stress is that the objectification of characters often just leads to costume blaming, e.g. if that costume is showing too much skin, it's objectification! If that costume is showing too much muscle, it's objectification! The comic writer Erik Larsen perfectly echoed my sentiments; the design of her costume does not objectify her. The definition of objectification, is basically treating someone as an object. Here is a snippet from Larsen's interview:

Larsen:

https://www.reaxxion.com/6512/erik-larsen-speaks-on-online-outrage-women-in-comics-and-sexist-costume-designs

Readers have often been prickly when it comes to bodies, especially those of women. What doesn’t seem to be understood is that there’s a big difference between costume design and character design. Wonder Woman’s costume is perfectly fine. It’s strong, it’s iconic, it harkens back to ancient Greece with athletes in appropriate sporting attire. It’s a costume that functions.

But it’s also one which can be abused. Women characters can be drawn sexy or strong, girlish or mature, thin or voluptuous and everything in between. If DC doesn’t want Wonder Woman to pose seductively and prance around like a sex object, they should make that point clear. Frank Miller drew Elektra as a powerful, taut ball of muscle. Wonder Woman can be that: she doesn’t need to be a tart. But that’s the way she’s drawn, not costume design.

I’ve attached two images that I’ve joined together showing Wonder Woman drawn by artists Mark Beachum and Bruce Timm. Both draw the same Wonder Woman costume, but one looks weak, vulnerable and slutty as all hell and one looks proud, confident and powerful.

So is it the costume to blame or the approach to drawing the character? I say the problem is the approach. DC and Marvel seem to act as though the problem is the costume design.

No Caption Provided

The image on the left, or any other image/depiction which depicts Wonder Woman as 'sexualized' can be noted. She's visibly depicted as a piece of meat, the version on the right is strong, strident and confident. Everything she does is a rejection of the objectification label; in the Justice League cartoon, she was one of the most powerful members in the League, she kicked ass and simply looked good while doing it. Want her to stop being sexualized? You needn't demand a costume change for that, demand superior writing.

Redesigning isn't covering up or uncovering or forcing uncovering or forcing covering, it's designing.

Largely untrue statement. The design in the OP is certainly covering up; Wonder Woman has been unnecessarily layered with clunky armor.

First: Yes, the characters' unrealness is important and is core to everything. There are calls for artists to lower the sexualization of their depictions of the images of female characters. That's not specifically "demands to cover up." It's deeper than simply "covering up" and is about the presentation overall. A female superhero can be quite sexualized in a unitard, so "demands to cover up female characters" is a shallow representation, and is OF COURSE meant to draw similarities to the taliban.

Again, stop skewing my points. I'm aware characters can be less sexualized without covering up, my argument is that comic-companies misunderstand how to do that and instead end up covering up characters because they're confused.

Second, Why does beautiful warrior automatically equal bodice and underwear? Beautiful people aren't required to wear that. "Not beautiful people" aren't required not to.

Why not? Wonder Woman since inception was not just based on a warrior, she was also given the power of several gods; she does not have to change just because YOU do not like it.

Wonder Woman did do a lot for feminism, and it was wonderful she other heroines were able to fight crime, but don't pretend their suits and designs were about liberating women. You know there was an explosion in the 40s of women in tiny costumes. There was a nickname boys gave those because they gave them a chance to look at images of half naked women a bunch. They were named "headlight comics" (three guesses what the "headlights" refer to). Also, there was a lot of bondage imagery in her books. I wasn't kidding in that post about covers of her being tied up with long cylindrical objects flying at her. These weren't accidents. Also, there's that whole, "kick the asses of men, and look good while doing it" that's part of the problem, because it's not an option. It's a requirement. As I've said before. She can be a hero, as long as she looked good for dudes. It's not empowering if it's a rule. And it's not empowering to her if it's not about her.

Wonder Woman's creator wanted men to find her sexy. He said as much. His superiors were worried about men not being able to handle a woman being more powerful than a man... But his solution was to make her hot:

He bribed men into accepting her power by making her sexy. Soooo yeah. So I guess we see the source of why female characters have historically had to be a sex objects if they were going to be powerful. (He also wasn't joking about the willing slaves bit, he liked his bondage.)

This is largely an ignorant viewpoint; I'm not sure if it's intentional, but you've left a lot of context out. Firstly, to start --- looking good is a requirement, especially in a fantasy medium; and you cannot cling to your double-standards. The most popular male superheroes look extremely attractive; and are depicted as physical perfections, even if they have superpowers and do not necessarily need to be in shape for power. This is not objectification if those characters are written to be more than objects. Nor is Wonder Woman the only subject to it --- most superhero comics depict both males and females as attractive, and there's nothing wrong with it.

Secondly, you are ignoring the context. The social atmosphere at the time, in comparison to now was mostly conservative and religiously puritan. This was the type of fashion you'd find for females, though there were exceptions. Wonder Woman's costume, although designed for arousal was a first step in the liberalizing of such mediums. Wonder Woman was at the time, a very liberal figure. That is why she was an icon for the 1970's women's liberation movement. In 1972, Gloria Steinem (significant Feminist scholar) and the other founders of Ms magazine chose Wonder Woman to be the cover girl for its first issue. She's expanded upon this before, by saying:

"Wonder Woman's family of Amazons on Paradise Island, her band of college girls in America, and her efforts to save individual women are all welcome examples of women working together and caring about each other's welfare. The idea of such cooperation may not seem particularly revolutionary to the male reader. Men are routinely depicted as working well together, but women know how rare and therefore exhilarating the idea of sisterhood really is. Wonder Woman's mother, Queen Hippolyte, offers yet another welcome example to young girls in search of a strong identity. Queen Hippolyte founds nations, wages war to protect Paradise Island, and sends her daughter off to fight the forces of evil in the world... Wonder Woman symbolizes many of the values of the women's culture that feminists are now trying to introduce into the mainstream: strength and self-reliance for women; sisterhood and mutual support among women; peacefulness and esteem for human life; a diminishment both of "masculine" aggression and of the belief that violence is the only way of solving conflicts."

This is a snippet from a Guardian article in regards to Wonder Woman's history, but it gives insight into her creation.

Superman’s publisher, Charlie Gaines, read Byrne’s article and was so impressed that he decided to hire Marston as a consulting psychologist. Marston convinced Gaines that what he really needed to counter the attack on comics was a female superhero. At first, Gaines objected. Every female pulp and comic-book heroine, he told Marston, had been a failure (which wasn’t strictly true). “But they weren’t superwomen,” Marston countered. “They weren’t superior to men.” A female superhero, Marston insisted, was the best answer to the critics, since “the comics’ worst offence was their bloodcurdling masculinity”. In February 1941, he submitted a typewritten draft of the first instalment of “Suprema, the Wonder Woman”. For an editor, Gaines assigned Marston to Sheldon Mayer, who edited Superman. In a letter Marston sent Mayer with his first script, he explained the “under-meaning” of the story: “Men (Greeks) were captured by predatory loveseeking females until they got sick of it and made the women captive by force. But they were afraid of them (masculine inferiority complex) and kept them heavily chained lest the women put one over as they always had before. The Goddess of Love comes along and helps women break their chains by giving them the greater force of real altruism. Whereupon men turned about face and actually helped the women get away from domestic slavery – as men are doing now. The NEW WOMEN thus freed and strengthened by supporting themselves (on Paradise Island) developed enormous physical and mental power. But they have to use it for other people’s benefit or they go back to chains, and weakness.”

It might sound like a fantasy, Marston admitted, but “all this is true”, at least as allegory, and, really, as history, because his comic was meant to chronicle “a great movement now under way – the growth in the power of women”. Mayer made one change: he nixed “Suprema”. Better to call her just “Wonder Woman”.

Fake Feminists such as yourselves, who think ''making Wonder Woman sexy'' undermines her (nevermind this approach ignores most depictions of superheroes) is the problem. You intentionally ignore the historical and social atmosphere of when Wonder Woman was written, and how women at the time were treated. You're just a puritan in disguise.

OK wow...People complaining or criticizing is nothing like authoritarian policing. There is no force or threats of violence. It's people complaining and criticizing. And YOU are equating that to threats and policing? So what? We're supposed to stay silent and not express our opinions on the subject? We give our opinions and it's still up to the artists and companies if they agree or disagree. It's complete freedom of speech both ways. What the heck dude?

Faux-Feminists decrying Wonder Woman's costumes, and those of many other female superheroes just because they look better than the ''Feminists'' who complain are the authoritarian thought-police --- obviously I don't mean that in the literal sense, just as I don't literally refer to them as the thought-police, but the nonsense campaigning to censor and change things that other people like just because they personally feel offended is crap. Same nonsense when faux-Feminists got GTA V banned in Target Australia.

(the spoiler thingie won't click for me there, I don't know if it's my browser or what, it's sometimes wonky on comic vine, so sorry if I don't respond directly to what's in this spoiler)

Uh no... you said:

Let's examine that again... You are blatantly saying that unless her outfit is not feminine, or graceful, and it's disrespectful to the character. So a beautiful woman has to be feminine and graceful? See this is the kind of thing that's the problem. And what's the crap about the "looks better than all of her female readers"??? How is this not suggesting that if you're beautiful, you must dress like that? And also, what about "unattractive" women? Are they not allowed to dress however they want? Are some women supposed to cover up, but others must stay uncovered? If that's the case who determines this?

You say that's not what your saying, but your whole premise was that her attractiveness requires her to dress in her old costume. That she has has the "beauty of the goddess" so anything that covers up her skin is insulting to the character. That is what's equating beauty and showing skin. Also, it's equating unattractiveness with not showing skin.

Firstly, why did you say ''uh...no, you said''? You just quoted what I initially said. That showing skin is not a sin; I literally refer to that in both my comments.

Secondly, yes, I argue that it is a disservice to Wonder Woman to give her a new costume (unless it's for a special occasions) with unnecessary, clunky armor which strips away her femininity and grace. This feminine grace is largely based on the Greek goddesses; it's not based on some Viking warriors or a Taliban fighter. I never said a beautiful woman has to be graceful either; I'm referring to Wonder Woman's roots in having the beauty of Greek goddesses. Pictures like this, among countless others atleast attempt to depict that. Also seemingly you misunderstood my unattractive woman comment, I made that in reference to jab at the fact that many Feminists who campaign for characters to have the puritan treatment do so because they're jealous. This nonsense happens in video-games too. I also didn't say ''anything which covers her skin'' --- I'm objecting to the clunkly baggaged armor in the OP which is clearly not feminine or graceful.

She's not wearing armor on her legs... She's got really high boots on, which is kinda silly. And eh, I think the shoulder plating looks cool, I wouldn't crumble to dust if they were removed, but I really don't get how this even makes her remotely unattractive. I also don't see the Taliban forcing shoulder armor on women.

Those thigh-high boots, wrist-blades, extended torso-armor, shoulder-pads and hell even long neck coverings strip away the grace. No, the Taliban don't force amor per-se but they force women to cover head to toe because they do not want them to arouse any sort of response from others...you know, sort of like your artist-reader parallel.

The muscle thing... that's much more for the men than it is for the women. Just showing big muscles isn't the same as sexualizing them. It's how the body is presented as much as what is presented. The muscles are meant to impress guys with their power and intimidation. It's not a matter of male sexiness, but a matter of male power among men. Images meant to be all about the male sexiness look much much different than what you see in most comic books.

These days it's kept for women; hence the example I gave you for Man of Steel. That is an example of how male attractiveness is depicted, it's distinctly different to how females are depicted. While 'impressing' guys with the muscles, it also acts as stimulating for women.

Wonder woman isn't depicted as the epitome of what we want to become

You completely miss the point, yet again. Wonder Woman as a physical depiction is what women would probably love to become; just as Superman and Batman, physically represent what men would desire to look like.

Great feminist message there Wonder Woman.

Wow, aside from ignoring the social context of Wonder Woman; and the endorsement she had from Feminist scholars, you're also cherry-picking.

Allow me to re-quote the creators.

“Men (Greeks) were captured by predatory loveseeking females until they got sick of it and made the women captive by force. But they were afraid of them (masculine inferiority complex) and kept them heavily chained lest the women put one over as they always had before. The Goddess of Love comes along and helps women break their chains by giving them the greater force of real altruism.Whereupon men turned about face and actually helped the women get away from domestic slavery – as men are doing now. The NEW WOMEN thus freed and strengthened by supporting themselves (on Paradise Island) developed enormous physical and mental power. But they have to use it for other people’s benefit or they go back to chains, and weakness.”

Good message for Feminism, yes?
Good message for Feminism, yes?

.And what... when picking out those batman covers, did you just say "oh, tied up, it must be the same"?? Look at the difference between Batman being tied up and Wonder Woman. Like the first tentacle image has her twisted just perfectly to see her boobs and her butt at the same time. Or that second one with the tentacles just so happens to have her with her butt pointed at the viewer. The random clockticles one has another hero creepily outside the image watching (this happens a lot, sometimes they use cameras.) And the one with the two women having tied her up, the ropes conveniently above and below her heaving breasts without blocking them. Compare that to the Batman covers. one laying beaten, held up by film strips. One is of him being wrapped up by a woman in a catsuit, while other women in catsuits cheer. Is this really the one you want to prove your point? Seriously?

What is wrong with the examples I gave? Batman is wearing a Nylon suit; prominent in bondage. In those covers I provided, in some we see Batman's body stretched so that his muscles are pointed to the viewer (as you can clearly see with the one with The Joker, third scan I posted).In terms of ''another hero watching'' --- that is easily visible in the image of Catwoman grabbing Batman with her whip, three other female characters in the background are cheering her on, visibly watching. All of the examples I provided are simply male-counterparts; to meet your double-standard.

As for your cherry-picked image of Wonder Woman's ass showing; I explained that in my second paragraph by quoting and expanding upon the points of Erik Larsen.

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Frozen

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@somayareece said:

I'm not going to argue with some 40 years old virgins about whether or not Wonder Woman should be covered up or not. I personally don't care what she's is wearing. I read her comics out of interest not to catch a erection from her being half dressed. Jeez, some people need to simmer down and catch a break.

Oh sure, we're all 40 old virings for liking attractive women. How could we forget our loserhood for not realizing?

I mean, it's not like the faux-Feminists (maybe you, maybe not) happen to be f*ck-ugly fat Tumblrites who are simply angry that fictional characters look better than yourselves.

@galacticfork

On the Barbie-He Man issue, I fail to see to see how it's ''shallow'' given it's exactly calling out the double-standard with new Feminists.

1) Gee, let's compare an icon that's been popular for more than 50 years, to a cartoon character that got its peak about 30 years ago, and wonder why one might have more effect on body image than the other?

Yes. He-Man embodies the masculine steryotype of what a tough male 'should' be; or at-least, appear to be. While Barbie is more popular, that does not alter the double-standard in how both femininity of Barbie and such figures draws rigorous criticism whereas the masculinity of He-Man does not. It's not a legitimate argument to proclaim ''but she's more popular!'' given that He-Man is a cult icon regardless.

2) There is a difference between what the two signify. The muscles on he-man weren't so he'd look good, they were signifiers of him being heroic. He saved the people, protected his land, and fought Skeletor. He had the power (He did, he said so every episode).

Barbie's look isn't actually about doing anything. her beauity isn't a signifier of accomplishment. It's the end in itself. But it doesn't actually accomplish anything. It's decoration. this carries over into comic books. Batman and superman aren't all muscley in order to be attractive. They are muscley to show how powerful and strong and capable of being heroic they are. They are signifiers of their heroics. The women characters don't get the same signifiers. Their beauty and sex appeal are independent of their abilities as heroes (but somehow a requirement). Look at the difference between Hulk and She-Hulk. Hulk is huge and grows bigger as he's angry. He is pretty grotesque actually... but his giant size is a signifier of his massive power and strength. Then look at She-hulk. Aside from being taller than other women and sometimes having slightly more defined muscles, her body shape isn't particularly different than any others. Dispite being a "hulk" she's not very hulking, because even the super strong women have to be hot.

He-Man's muscles are there to embody masculinity; it is completely an unrealistic standard of how masculinity should be portrayed. It mixes masculinity with power to create that type of figure. The reason why men probably don't criticize it as much is because it's irrelevant, the creative freedom of those who create such figures should be respected; the ''media affects people'' argument is made up of nothing but whining about 'unrealistic' standards (which completely misses the point of how unrealistic depictions is the intention of fiction). The traditional depiction of how men and women appeal to one another differs; Superman for example --- his muscles don't just signify ''heroicness'' (it's more-so his cape too), his muscles also signify appeal. The athletic and muscular physique of Supeman is desirable; most women would desire for someone with that physique and face --- that's why women were drooling over Super-Cavill for Man of Steel. This is in spite of the fact that the standard conveyed by Superman, is completely unrealistic and ''leads'' to unreasonably high-standards of what females want in a man. It's not just conditioned with male-sex appeal ads with Calvine Klein but characters like Batman and Superman. This ''unrealistic'' standard of what females ''face'' also applies to men; it's just characterized differently. Just to note, as I said previously, I don't buy this B.S ''media affects people'' argument --- that's the type of thinking which ruins creative and artistic freedoms.

here's a lot of interesting stuff on it. It'd probably be better to have it over PMs or in a different thread because the origin and manifestation is different than the sexualization that women receive in the media.

I'll discuss the theories and ideas with you in PM, sure.

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deactivated-59dfd33ed3601

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@frozen: I'm sorry, did I strike a nerve? I find your long paragraphs in this thread to be unnecessary. You are filling it with nonsense about her being covered up and how men are treated unfair. Blah blah. Just go do something productive with your life because your slick smartass comments ain't bothering me.

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deactivated-59dfd33ed3601

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@frozen: Congratulations, want a cookie? I make such comments to rustle your jimmies not because I am stupid. You chose to reply so you're obviously bothered. Have a nice day.

Sincerely, Somaya Reece.

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Edited By Frozen

@somayareece said:

@frozen: I'm sorry, did I strike a nerve? I find your long paragraphs in this thread to be unnecessary. You are filling it with nonsense about her being covered up and how men are treated unfair. Blah blah. Just go do something productive with your life because your slick smartass comments ain't bothering me.

Note: accidentally deleted my comment. Re-post.

Ah yes, how could I forget? My life is not productive. Well, today will be the first day whereby I will make my first steps of progress.

I'll advise you that comments such as ''I'm not going to argue with some 40 years old virgins'' are stupid.

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@frozen: Congratulations, want a cookie? I make such comments to rustle your jimmies not because I am stupid. You chose to reply so you're obviously bothered. Have a nice day.

Sincerely, Somaya Reece.

I did not call you stupid, that'd be breaking a rule. But I did call your comments stupid; because they are.

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@frozen said:

Note: accidentally deleted my comment. Re-post.

Ah yes, how could I forget? My life is not productive. Well, today will be the first day whereby I will make my first steps of progress.

I'll advise you that comments such as ''I'm not going to argue with some 40 years old virgins'' are stupid.

Not as stupid as disdaining feminist women as embittered, ugly and fat. You're just talking shyte at this point Frozen but by all means, carry on

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Edited By Frozen

@foamborn: Someone brought up the erroneous stereo-type that comic-book fans who find Wonder Woman attractive are ''40 year old male virgins''; a typical trope associated with comic-book fans --- do you not see it fitting that I also use a stereo-type in response, no?

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Edited By Frozen

Hey what about this? http://shirtless-superheroes.blogspot.com/

Or this? https://www.pinterest.com/anthair/superhero-beefcake/

Or this? http://perezhilton.com/galleries/18-hottest-shirtless-superheroes/?id=384085#.VRLhLsl1yB4

Or this? http://shirtlesssuperheros.tumblr.com/

Or this? http://jezebel.com/5820532/with-great-beefcake-the-complete-guide-to-shirtlessness-in-marvel-superhero-movies

Wassup with that?

Not surprised...

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@somayareece said:

I just knew some males would bring up the feminist agenda. If you want to see females oversexualized so badly then go watch porn. Wonder Woman's job is to fight for justice and equality not fulfill your wet fantasies.

What I don't understand about the "feminist agenda" is why comic book characters are so important to you? I'm a feminist and there are so many bigger fish to fry. Why aren't you fighting for equal pay for women? What about the tragic number of military sexual assaults? Hell what about sexual assault on college campuses?

If you're obsessed with ephemera like you seem to be, Larry Flynt publishes five magazines including Hustler, which isn't even the most explicit. You should be trying to shut him down, not comic books. I don't get it. This is 2015, he's ripe for being run out business, why aren't you doing it?

It's women's magazines that sell the beauty myth and make women feel insecure and like they'll never be good enough. Why aren't you trying to change them?

Why aren't you trying to put an end to the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue, Maxim or all glamor photography in general? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glamour_photography

It makes no sense that you get so worked up about drawn pictures. As you yourself have alluded to, there's porn everywhere. It's totally free on tumblr, instagram. vine, twitter and even facebook, who do you think is masturbating to comics? If there's anyone that actually does find superheroes to be erotic, there are whole websites devoted to it, they don't need to look at comics.

How are you going to eradicate sexy images when they're already on everyone's phone? It's nonsensical, so therefore it just sounds like you're nagging and picking on nerds because they're easy targets.

What? No comment?

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@frozen said:

@foamborn: Someone brought up the erroneous stereo-type that comic-book fans who find Wonder Woman attractive are ''40 year old male virgins'' --- do you not see it fitting that I also use a stereo-type in response, no?

No, because I know that came from the heart

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Frozen

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Edited By Frozen

@scorpio_cassadine: She did comment...

I'm not going to argue with some 40 years old virgins about whether or not Wonder Woman should be covered up or not. I personally don't care what she's is wearing. I read her comics out of interest not to catch a erection from her being half dressed. Jeez, some people need to simmer down and catch a break.

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@foamborn: I have no problem with people arguing against this new costume. I'm not a big fan of it myself. But to resort to feminist bashing just because of skin covering is outright low and pathetic. The user Frozen is basically running a campaign for his hatred of feminism.

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Frozen

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Edited By Frozen

@somayareece said:

@foamborn: I have no problem with people arguing against this new costume. I'm not a big fan of it myself. But to resort to feminist bashing just because of skin covering is outright low and pathetic. The user Frozen is basically running a campaign for his hatred of feminism.

If you actually read what I wrote, I clearly praise the fact that Wonder Woman had her origins in Feminist roots. Do not ignorantly conflate my comments with equity Feminism to third-wave Feminism, it's insulting.

My comments initially echo the sentiments of J Scott Campbell, an artist in the industry. Why is my Feminazi stereotype not suffice to counter your comic-book 40 year old virgin stereotype? I was giving a fair balance to your initial comments.

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Stereotype? Lmao.

You got to be kidding me. I hope you don't think I was being serious. You must be a 40 year old virgin if you're so bothered by that comment. Otherwise, you wouldn't keep babbling about it.

I have no problem with you arguing about the obvious double standards in fiction. I applaud you for your strong interest in the issue at hand. I just feel that some of the comments being made are unnecessary mate.

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Frozen

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@somayareece: You may have not been serious, I simply responded to you by giving you another stereotype.

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CSG_CL

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@foamborn said:

@csg_cl said:

@foamborn: it doesn't ellude me that cheesecake exists. I've never liked it, but the solution isn't to flip to the other side of the pendulum and abandon core visual elements of the character. WW is sexy, it's fundamental to her character to be a beautiful woman. Since day one Marston used that as part of his platform for women being the equal (or as he believed more than equal$ to men. Instead of putting a shame label on sexiness an artist should be considering how to best embrace it and make it beautiful rather than hiding it in a little closet.

Yeah but it was Finch/DC that came up with this outfit, it's all on them, don't pin it on the so called "loud minorities". These supposedly "insecure, prudish, body-conscious people" that collude to cover up women is the same group that's gonna storm into the comic shops today to get Jem and the Holograms, notwithstanding the fact that those 4 or 5 teenage girls are not exactly dressed for church either.

Where do you think Finch/DC get the idea of covering her up? It's certainly not his normal style (go look at her belly-top armor or Donna arising from the cauldron if you disagree).

Denying that there is a very vocal group of fans who actively slut shame WW for her skimpy clothing is just silly ... you yourself are massively vocal about how she is portrayed and your general disdain for her wearing makeup and heels is all over this forum (and I'm certain elsewhere). I guarantee there are levers in place at DC to monitor social/internet sentiment that are used in someway to "inform" artists and writers about how things are going. In today's business world a company would be foolish not to understand what it's fans are saying. Listening to a fan base has it's benefits, but not when it flies in the face of who the character is supposed to be.

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its an outfit that isnt her main uniform..who cares?

Meredith and David stated that its just a temporary uniform just like the one she wore earlier in this current ww story arc.

Meredith said that she wants to have diana in different uniforms every now and then

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SCORPIO_CASSADINE

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@somayareece said:

Stereotype? Lmao.

You got to be kidding me. I hope you don't think I was being serious. You must be a 40 year old virgin if you're so bothered by that comment. Otherwise, you wouldn't keep babbling about it.

I have no problem with you arguing about the obvious double standards in fiction. I applaud you for your strong interest in the issue at hand. I just feel that some of the comments being made are unnecessary mate.

That "40 year old virgin" comment showed you soundly lost the discussion and had nothing else pertinent to add beyond cliched insults.

As for bashing feminists, that's not what's happening here. You're frauds. Real feminists want women to be free, not slaves to someone's dictated puritanical dress code.

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CSG_CL

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Pharoh_Atem

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Frozen won this thread to be honest.

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I'm clearly ignoring that other person because he keep picking fights with everyone in this thread. Wonder Woman needs a better group of fans lol. Anyways, I'm not a feminist and will longer contribute to the bigotry in this thread.

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CSG_CL

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@somayareece: bigotry in this thread? From what I see these posters are arguing for a woman's right to wear whatever the hell she wants ... Something that fits quite nicely into Marston's vision of Diana.

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@csg_cl: Oh yes! Why can't we just ask Wonder Woman what she wants to wear? We can't because she is a fictional character and only DC decides what they want her to wear. I got a idea! Why don't the critics protest outside DC headquarters and demand to show skin? It isn't like arguing behind a screen is going to solve anything. I don't give a flying flock about what Diana wears. Marston's vision? The same guy that allowed thirsty lesbians and perverted men to use her as a sex slave throughout most her history? Sure.

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Frozen

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FoamBorn

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Edited By FoamBorn

@somayareece: Yeah, more like arguing against their perceived loss of male privilege. Frozen's outwritten us all, that must mean he won

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CSG_CL

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@somayareece: now who is being a bigot?

Thirsty lesbians? I don't even know what that is supposed to mean.

Perhaps you should try reading about Marston and his motivations before you start making statements about it. The man was wrapped tightly to First Wave Feminism, but he was also something of a bondage enthusiast so he incorporated the concept of loving submission into his creation. For the first 5 years of her publication WW was an illustration of how submitting to a loving authority was its own freedom. She was also an illustration of how a woman didn't have to fit into the social construct of the day to thrive. She's a counter cultural icon because she dressed in what, for the day, was deemed very racey attire. What Marston never did was allow her to remain submissive to anything cruel.

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FoamBorn

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@csg_cl said:

Where do you think Finch/DC get the idea of covering her up? It's certainly not his normal style (go look at her belly-top armor or Donna arising from the cauldron if you disagree).

Denying that there is a very vocal group of fans who actively slut shame WW for her skimpy clothing is just silly ... you yourself are massively vocal about how she is portrayed and your general disdain for her wearing makeup and heels is all over this forum (and I'm certain elsewhere). I guarantee there are levers in place at DC to monitor social/internet sentiment that are used in someway to "inform" artists and writers about how things are going. In today's business world a company would be foolish not to understand what it's fans are saying. Listening to a fan base has it's benefits, but not when it flies in the face of who the character is supposed to be.

Yeah but what I'm trying to tell you is that those presumably "loud, slut-shaming, fat, jealous, unf*ckable pseudo feminist women" are really just grossly misunderstood by the likes of you and that if dc's done this to appease them is because they haven't got a clue.

Seriously CSG_CL think about it, the irony of handing Wonder Woman to David Finch and then commissioning him to slap some body paint underneath the classic bathing suit is a bit ON THE NOSE, wouldn't you agree…

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CSG_CL

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Edited By CSG_CL

@foamborn: LOL ... You haven absolutely no idea what you are talking about and show once again a total lack of comprehension. People are defending the right of a woman to wear what SHE wishes t wear. It's the ignorami like you who insist that she must fit into some mold of what you view as an ideal woman. But then you're a girl not a woman.

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SCORPIO_CASSADINE

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@csg_cl: Oh yes! Why can't we just ask Wonder Woman what she wants to wear? We can't because she is a fictional character and only DC decides what they want her to wear. I got a idea! Why don't the critics protest outside DC headquarters and demand to show skin? It isn't like arguing behind a screen is going to solve anything. I don't give a flying flock about what Diana wears. Marston's vision? The same guy that allowed thirsty lesbians and perverted men to use her as a sex slave throughout most her history? Sure.

No Caption Provided

You lost. Have a seat.

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FoamBorn

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@csg_cl said:

@foamborn: LOL ... You haven absolutely no idea what you are talking about and show once again a total lack of comprehension. People are defending the right of a woman to wear what SHE wishes t wear. It's the ignorami like you who insist that she must fit into some mold of what you view as an ideal woman. But then you're a girl not a woman.

Wonder Woman is a comic book character, she has no agency you know. Wonder Woman wears whatever she's given and that happens to be a bathing suit that almost always sits low across her chest because that totally makes sense, it's a celebration of her freedom isn't it

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CSG_CL

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@foamborn: a weak argument as always... As soon as you get called on your crap you resort to this drivel "she has no agency" ... No one is saying she is a real person. But the point of the argument is that she represents a woman's freedom. She is an icon for many not because she is real but because she is representative of pretty much all of us who are not straight, white, male and culturally conforming. Your judgemental BS is why women don't get respect. A woman walking into a room in a bikini gets judged for her clothing because small minded haters would rather think about what she has on her body because it's less threatening than what might be in her mind.

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FoamBorn

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Edited By FoamBorn

@csg_cl said:

@foamborn: a weak argument as always... As soon as you get called on your crap you resort to this drivel "she has no agency" ... No one is saying she is a real person. But the point of the argument is that she represents a woman's freedom. She is an icon for many not because she is real but because she is representative of pretty much all of us who are not straight, white, male and culturally conforming. Your judgemental BS is why women don't get respect. A woman walking into a room in a bikini gets judged for her clothing because small minded haters would rather think about what she has on her body because it's less threatening than what might be in her mind.

You know what, you're right, you've inspired me CSG_CL, I'll show up tomorrow at the studio in my bikini to celebrate my freedom just because I want to and because I can, and no one but the narrow-minded fundamentalistic scum in this country will judge me for it, I'm so sure of it. You certainly wouldn't! I'll tell you what, I'll send my daughters naked to school as well because we don't want to waste one bit of that freedom!!!

The truth is, the ones defending the right of women "wearing what they want" as opposed to being invariably put in a bikini for the enjoyment of men, are the feminists and it's only all the shyte in your head that prevents you from seeing that.

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deactivated-59dfd33ed3601

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@foamborn: Thank you, If that's the case then I don't even care about winning lol.

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CSG_CL

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@foamborn: here you go trying to avoid the subject again. If applaud you for not giving a crap about what others thought of what you wear to work. I walk into my office every day dressed as I deem appropriate for myself even when I know damn well there are people who look at me and wonder what the "faggot" is gonna look like today. I have faced down my fundamentalist family and hostil anti-gay people for my whole life. If you don't have the stomach to stand up for your beliefs then stop mouthing off behind the safety of an internet persona.

Feminism is part of the civil rights movement. But people like you continue to make it about sex and sexualization. Take a moment to consider that. And then take a moment to consider that DC is also a business looking to make profit from one of the most iconic characters to ever grace the pages of fiction. They aren't about to risk that by stripping her of everything that makes her profitable over some male agenda.

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@csg_cl: It should be quite obvious. I'm referring to the women in Diana's early days that taunted and teased her for her sex appeal. Marston's ideas obviously didn't mean nothing since most men only see her as a sex object these days (including the writers). We will have to live with the fact that Wonder Woman will never get treated fair in man's world.

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SCORPIO_CASSADINE

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@csg_cl: It should be quite obvious. I'm referring to the women in Diana's early days that taunted and teased her for her sex appeal. Marston's ideas obviously didn't mean nothing since most men only see her as a sex object these days (including the writers). We will have to live with the fact that Wonder Woman will never get treated fair in man's world.

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SinnTek1

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@ren_ said:

I actually really like that.

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Why can't Superman show skin? Why not make him shirtless with just thongs like He-Man? I'm sure some people would love to see that sexy body of his. If we going to discuss freedom of dressing then lets throw him into the equation. You don't see nobody complaining about him being covered up from neck to toe. What's the difference with Wonder Woman? She has to show skin because it is all about sexualization with women, I guess?

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CSG_CL

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@somayareece: ah so because they were bad guys they are lesbians. Have you even read these comics or anything about Marston? If you take even a casual glance it's plain as day that Marston always set up cultural conformity as villainy. Many of his villains disguised themselves as men in order to be who they wished to be rather than being forced into a traditional female life. None of this is sexual.

As for WW getting a fair shake ... Why should she? What is the point of a female character such as WW when there is no inequality to fight? Her outfit has nothing to do with it. Visual media objectify the human form. Period end of story. Male, female, transgendered, gay, straight or otherwise ... When was the last time you saw a fat ugly gay male character? What about a female to male transgender? What about a fat girl as the love interest in a rom-com? People want the fantasy not the reality. That doesn't make everybmovie or TV show or comic book anti-feminist (etc). It makes them businesses looking to profit.

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CSG_CL

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Edited By CSG_CL

@somayareece: they do all the time! Have you ever watched the CW Arrow show? Taken a look at SM comics? Thor? Comic Heroes are always ripped and sexy ... Male or female. You think just because he's not shirtless he's less sexualized? Take a look at his package sometime ... Trust me the man of steel is a name he earns on multiple fronts.

Showing skin isn't waht makes any of these characters sexy

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@csg_cl: Post was deleted but

I ensure you I never read a Wonder Woman comic a day of my life. I have study the history of Wonder Woman and I know what she is all about. If it wasn't for Perez rebooting her then Wonder Woman would be the female Adam Warlock.

No inequality to fight? Oh please. Feminism is one of the main aspects of her. The DCAU portrayed that side of her strongly. I remember in Justice League War at one point a guy accused her of dressing like a "whore". The funny thing there is real life people thinking just like him.

I love how you found a way to get homosexuality involved in the midst of this. There is a sh*tload of comics with lgbt based characters. Almost every tv show right now involves homosexuality as we speak. The Fosters, Scandal, Empire, Hit the Floor, etc. It is 2015, the multimedia media practically love gays these days. Sure there is still much homophobia that exist but it is not as bad as it used to be.