Major Marvel Comics Character Killed in Civil War II #3 [Spoilers]

Because I refuse to make characters solely to pander :P If I was going to make characters they would be brand new, in their own way or if they were mantle passes I'd use the ultimate universe so fans of the original can read the original and fans of the new can read the new and both parties be satisfied.

Actually, the one thing I'd love to see is a return to the Marvel What If series but with a good story, they mostly used for jokes and goofy ideas but they also used to use it for serious ones, my favorite would be the opportunity to re-tell Captain America.

Steve Rogers is still Cap but he ends up on a mission to shut down a German Camp and discovers a young boy who can move metal, he saves the boys family and trains him to be a Howling Commando, that boy is Magneto.

It could go on where others join like the previous incarnation of Ghost Rider, possibly Namor and even Wolverine before his metal implants/experiments as they form the first true Avengers (I figure Ghost Rider and Namor are decent Hulk and Thor replacements).

If you hate this story line then stop picking them up. We are all getting event fatigue and the only way to send Marvel the message you don't want anymore of this crap is to stop buying. At this point Marvel might want to think of changing editors, you look at all the A list talent Axel has lost and not replaced but instead went back to the Bendis well an old timer who has lost his touch.

I have not gotten a single issue of this series nor will I, Bendis has shown in the past he can't write events and normally just gets characters to act in a way to fit his stories ignoring changes in them because it means he has to deviate from his plan which never pans out.

Julia lost those powers after Spiderverse.

@doc-holiday: Is there any way to salvage this horrible comic story?

No. At this point, any idea will come across as even more cliche than a hero getting killed. It has some minor intrigue that Hawkeye did the deed but Hawkeye has always run the line between hero and criminal so it's not that surprising. What would have been surprising would be if say The Thing, Sentry, She-Hulk or someone else had killed Bruce on his request.

Marvel has been a strong comic streak recently but I believe that is in part due to the success of their films and rather than put the level of care and commitment they did in Civil War (the original) to this Civil War, it's largely full of cheap, predictable story lines, cliches and pandering mantle passes.

I wasn't reading much of Marvel or DC recently, only checking in/keeping my ear to the ground but since DC rebirth has got a lot of good press and seems to have returned to closer to classic DC, I might start reading DC again but Marvel is going to do a lot of work to regain readers.

Luckily Mark Millar has been doing more solo work again; currently the series Empress (it's great) so I have that, Image (mostly Invincible the series) and Valiant.

@br_havoc: A lot of people have stopped buying these series but sometimes events like these basically hold characters hostage demanding that readers pick up multiple comics they might not want just to find out what happened to their favorite characters. I stopped reading Marvel a while ago but I am considering checking out DC Rebirth since it seems like DC hasn't entirely forgotten its audience in place of cheap gimmicks (outside of the name Rebirth and the series of events they had :P)

@doc-holiday: DC's Rebirth has been great

These!

I expected DC to handle this better. They brought in some new characters for a sort-of mantle pass, mostly with the two Green Lanterns but they didn't abandon the originals. Most likely because they didn't have to, the JLA has had fairly diverse characters for many years and a lot of them are very popular.

On the cartoon, JLU, my favorite was always John Stewart

DC also, for a while, had better shows that didn't jam the fact that they had more diverse characters down your throat like the comics feel like they're doing now

Also, to be honest, given a choice between Marvel and DC, I will always pick DC. Batman is my favorite hero and Superman comes in at around maybe 2nd :P

And the same with the real Wolvie when the third movie comes out.

Possibly. Supposedly Marvel is becoming anti-mutant and anti-F4 to try and weaken the growing audience Fox has with the recent success of Deadpool and X-men Apocalypse. I can't see if that is true but the simple fact is that Fox struck gold with the X-men, not to get too far off topic but the X-men work best when they are involved with as few OTHER super beings as possible. It's Mr. Sinister, Ajax, Deadpool (the previous two being mutates, rather than mutants, since their powers didn't manifest naturally), and Silver Samurai (mostly just a super suit) are acceptable, they are apart of that universe but also fit into it. The X-men make no sense when you add Spider-man, Sentry, Ms. Marvel, etc. to the mix because while the readers know their origins, the general public in Marvel do not. It raises the question, why trust Spider-man and somehow hate Wolverine, Cyclops or Storm?

In a world where the super powered beings are predominantly mutants, it makes considerably more sense for people to mistrust them and misunderstand them. Even if Marvel got their hands on the movie rights, the X-men just wouldn't fit into the MCU very well because the glaring plothole of "how do the public know who is and isn't a mutant?" comes up.

@doc-holiday: Oh and the whole thing with the two Wally Wests being actually cousins, they just happen to have the same name. GENIUS

Meh :P can't all be gems. I will never and have never claimed that DC is perfect but being an older company most likely gives them some perspective.

DC has come back to television in a big way; Arrow, Flash, Legends of Tomorrow, Gotham (even though I don't like Gotham), Supergirl, and so far it has done a good job. I think that recently DC has become a bit more gutsy and taken more risks in creating new television programs and movies and it has started to pay. I have some high hopes for Suicide Squad since this will be one of the few movies not (directly) about Batman (or Superman).

It's Bendis, guys, he doesn't effing care who he kills. I thought this story might be good but....wtf

But the first attack on Earth, Ulysses foresaw the death of heroes and Earth, the heroes went there, stopped the attack, and they were successful. His visions cant be him seeing what would happen if he intervened.

Well, I have another reason to hate Marvel, Bendis, and the lame character that is Clint Barton/Hawkeye. That's no way for Banner to die. Just total and utter disrespect for the character. I can only hope someone, hopefully Amadeus or someone else who cared about Banner, hunts down and kills Barton. I really, truly hope they do.

I would have rather seen a Hulk-less Banner fight alongside heroes against a universal/multiversal threat and die sacrificing himself while saving everyone/everything. This was not it. What it is? A disgusting, disrespectful death to an incredible, much-beloved character.

We all know Banner/Hulk will return with a vengeance, but this... this was just total garbage, at best.

I have another reason to hate Marvel, Bendis, and the lame character that is Clint Barton/Hawkeye. That's no way for Banner to die. Just total and utter disrespect for the character. I can only hope someone, hopefully Amadeus or someone else who cared about Banner, hunts down and kills Barton. I really, truly hope they do.

I would have rather seen a Hulk-less Banner fight alongside heroes against a universal/multiversal threat and die sacrificing himself while saving everyone/everything. This was not it. What it is? A disgusting, disrespectful death to an incredible, much-beloved character.

We all know Banner/Hulk will return with a vengeance, but this... this was just total garbage, at best.

Bendis seems to forget that 616 hulk isn't the same, cannibalistic monster that his ultimate hulk is. He's made it seem as though a hulk incident could be a world ending event without any reasoning behind it (I.E. Referencing the keiber radiation possibly making a stronger more deadly hulk, making it harder for banner to restrain him or something like that).

Banners death was for pure, pathetic shock value with no buildup. The guy is one of the most powerful humans on the planet, one of the most iconic names in comics, a founding avenger, has saved the Earth countless times, and bendis spits in all of that to have him die to a random arrow...

He'll be back eventually, but still, the way he died is disgraceful, and worse is the fact that they killed him at all. It's like marvel are purposely alienating readers.

As someone who's never been a huge fan of the character that dies in this book, I was shocked how much I liked this issue. Best of the event so far. So much more emotional than I would've expected.

This was great. Loved Banner's death, he is a freaking genius, should know better than to freak out and get offended by everything especially given the situation. He escalated it by getting on the defensive and such. If you are a raging behemoth who can kill everybody, you shouldn't expect many of the courtesies offered to others.

Love how none of the characters can react to an arrow. No one expected it but still, pretty bad. Tony would probably have if he had his armor on, he also scans everything and would have realized Hawkeye going tree climbing.

Lol at Bendis hate, it's not everyday you see so many fans being salty.

I am interested to see what Pak writes in "The Fallen" book. Bendis really pissed in Pak's Cheerios.

Glad to be a DC fan all the way. :) This is rick-diculous on marvel part. smh.

Pretty much. Inhumans have taken up the role of mutants in the MCU. It seems like the public (in the Marvel Universe) has a general distrust of super powered people. They don't seem to make a distinction between Inhumans and non-Inhuman super powered individuals.

I think adding mutants would make the MCU more confusing to the general audience. However, I can see MCU bringing in some mutant avengers the same way they brought in Scarlett Witch and Quicksilver. Wolverine's origin story, for example, could be retconned for the MCU as him getting all his powers from the Weapon X project.

I've seen stupid stuff. I did - still do - stupid stuff. But this...this...Please, Scarlet Witch: make Marvel disappear! (Don't you dare starting a new mega-event from that, though! Don't. You.Dare.)

Thor is a woman.

Iron MAN is a black teenage girl.

Namor was killed off.

Hulk is dead.

Coming Next:

Hawkeye is transgender.

Black Widow sues S.H.I.E.L.D for sexual harrasment.

The Avengers get targeted by feminists.

How do you know that?

I'm starting to get really frustrated with how each of these issues are high price (as far as comics go) issues and each of them is some jumpy set up issue. I also really dislike how there was no indication of the passage of time. The issue opens in the court house, with flashbacks telling what happened at Banners lab. How much time has passed? Obviously a significant amount since Carol and her team have been playing Minority Report, but it really removes me from the immersion when you have no sense of time in the story.

I hate Ulysses. I hate that he's always nervous and shy and doe-eyed. I just hate him. He's Marvels newest "snapshot" character-- a character they create as a summary of current youthful trends. So many of their characters are like this, and they always get pushed to the back in order to make room for the next one, next year.

As far as Ulysses' vision goes: I think the Hulk really will beat the Avengers within an inch of their lives (and maybe even further for some of them). Banner is dead, but I'm betting the Hulk is still alive within his body, and as we've seen before, when Hulk is free of Banner, he goes absolutely green bananas. He seemed naked in the vision, which we typically don't see. Gives a bit more to the primal feel of a Banner-less Hulk, imo. As of now, I'm thinking Banners death was just a bait-and-switch.

Hope this doesn't turn out to be one long vision of Ulysses' about what would happen if people tried to use his powers to help them. They could do a cop out and make all of Civil War II part of a vision, that way they still get to have War Machine and Bruce Banner alive. It could be a giant event that didn't really happen, kind of like Age of Ultron.

@gmanfromheck: What makes Ulysses so special that he will cause a split between the Marvel

Universe ?

He's not the first one with the ability to see the future and he won't be the last.

Is it because he's an inhuman ?

What's your take on this ?

RIP Bruce Banner.

Although, if he had no incident in the last year and in the future he was going to Hulk out... Wouldn't the trigger be the heroes going to confront him? The solution to all this could've been to just leave him alone.

Now we got Cho's Hulk, which is interesting because the Champions title shows basically an Avengers team full of "replacement" heroes. What's gonna happen to Peter Parker? Or Carol? Vision?

LOL

Equal Op complain

LoL!

Nooooooo.

Also, how does banner literally spend half his publication not being able to cure/kill the hulk, then all of a sudden makes an arrow guaranteed to be a kill shot?

DC's shows have always been better, indeed. JLU will ALWAYS be one heck of a show that set the standard very high. Still miss Young Justice. Batman is also my fav superhero, and while I will always find Superman an inspiring hero, my very close second is Mister Majestic. The stories Joe Casey wrote for the Majestic book was... well... majestic.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/10-times-hawkeye-ironically-said-superheroes-shouldnt-kill?utm_campaign=10-times-hawkeye-ironically-said-superheroes-shouldnt-kill&utm_medium=internal_links&utm_source=breaking_banner

A CBR article listing 10 times Hawkeye condemned killing and had a clear no killing rule. This just makes Bendis' mischaracterisation of him all the more inaccurate. Poor Hawkeye has suffered as the scapegoat of Bendis's idiotic decision making.

Just proves that hypocrisy is what marvel specializes in.

Bruce Banner is dead? And Cho quit. So... Rulk solo??

I've been reading Hulk for decades – Banner/Hulk has always been a favorite. And now there's.... Cho. I gave it a shot. Not a favorite. Marvel is crap anymore. You want a minority Hulk? Fine! Great! But don't kill the character some people have invested 50 years in, you miserable jerks. Have two Hulks, then - not like you haven't had a handful running around before at the same time (which does diminish the character, btw). I understand they need to add diversity and that is fine, but doing it by killing off originals is utter garbage. Ugh.

This whole series has been underwhelming imo. The idea is interesting but the execution isn't good

Exactly. It's why I am giving DC Rebirth a chance,I went out and got Nightwing, Hal Jordan and GL Corps and Wonder Woman

@staphin: I don't know if your being sarcastic or not but ill choose to believe that your being sincere. It is currently unclear exactly where my path will take me, across the divide to the other of the big two, witness the Image of a fast growing empire, be awed by a small but Valiant tribe, or maybe even travel across the seas and make a Shoen Jump to something different. What i do know is that i will be back one day, back to fully embrace the characters i love so dearly free of the poisons of Bendis and his ilk.

Marvel's tailspin continues.

You have to sit down now, Mr.Bendis

@doc-holiday: said

@remowill said:

Why is Marvel getting rid of all their original heroes?

One word "sales". It's why all the mantle passes are happening, why all the big time heroes are being replaced with mostly children of various ethnicity and gender swaps. It's why the major events are happening; Civil War, Secret Wars, etc. etc. etc.

It's all about easy gimmicks that make quick cash. Ever since Superman died, the death of major heroes has meant big sales although the more common place they become, the less sales happen.

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^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^

Sadly you're right about the easy gimmicks and quick cash. To me it just laziness on Marvels' part. Funny how after reading Marvel comics for 40 years I'm down to just 2 Marvel titles on my pull list.

I have 0 titles but the recent DC Rebirth has me returning to DC and reading its titles again, I was hesitant and started with Nightwing, Wonder Woman and Hal Jordan & the GL Corps but I plan to pick up many more titles from this point on

@darthfury78: said

@remowill said:

Why is Marvel getting rid of all their original heroes?

The WRONG people are in charge of Marvel, since Axel Alonzo took over as EiC. All we have seen under his leadership is a forced diversity on replacing existing characters. As well as the fact that the folks who took over in the late 1990's helm of Marvel are still there. But their creativity has decline towards thinking that Marvel should reflect the diversity of America by replacing all of their old characters.

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^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^

This is why I only have 2 Marvel titles left on my pull list. I am sick to death of their lame forced diversity agenda and political activism to the detriment of good quality writing and proper character development.

IMO, Disney need to step in and clear Marvels' print division office of all the dead wood starting with Perlmutter, Alonzo, Quesada, Brevoort, Bendis, and Slott.