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Is Changing Wonder Woman and the History of the Amazons A Good Idea?

Issue #7 of WONDER WOMAN introduced massive changes to Wonder Woman's heritage, but are these changes for the better or worse?

When the decision to relaunch the entire DC Comics universe came about, the question of whether to make integral changes to characters, character identities and concepts obviously came up. If this wasn't obvious before, it is certainly obvious now considering some of the massive changes made to characters and their histories, particularly recently.

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The latest issue of WONDER WOMAN #7 is certainly evidence of that, and it's also something that took readers by surprise. When Comic Vine received the preview for the seventh issue of WONDER WOMAN just two short weeks ago we were certainly excited, but there was no way of our knowing what huge revelations would take place in the latter portion of the issue. If you read the book you already know what I am talking about, and if you haven't then be aware that there will be some spoilers below.

== TEASER ==

Whoever was responsible for the massive changes made to Wonder Woman and the Amazons seen in WONDER WOMAN #7 is beside the point. The real question is, were these changes a good idea? Were the things that happened in this issue positive or negative, overall? Before I divulge my personal perspective on the recent changes made to the heritage of one of the most iconic characters in comics, let's discuss what is actually different about Wonder Woman and the Amazons now, compared to the way they were before.

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Prior to the "new 52" the Amazons were seen as a group of women who never interacted with men. The Amazons were comprised as the souls of women throughout the ages who had been persecuted and killed, "dying before their time" who were given a chance to live a life based on "love and the teaching of the Gods" rather than "power and conquest." This origin can be seen in Wonder Woman #72, by Bill Loebs, Lee Moder and Ande Parks.

The story tells of the origin of the Amazons, their ideologies, as well as of Hippolyta's struggles against Heracles and the outside threats the Amazons faced. That origin, however, is vastly different from the one that was recently published in WONDER WOMAN #7. While the former paints the Amazons as a group of abandoned, disrespected women who are given a second chance at life to live out a happy, full and loving existence; their most recent incarnation brands them as a race of women who are warriors and have done what they must to ensure that their race would survive and persevere. The key word that defines these Amazons is "warrior."

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In issue #7 we see the Amazons as a race of warrior women who "thrice a century" leave their island, seduce men, eliminate those men and then return to their island where nine months later they celebrate the births of the baby girls and abandon the boys, giving them up to Hephaestus in exchange for weapons. Now, I've obviously simplified things a lot, so I recommend you read the issue in order to get the full scope of the inherent changes made to these characters and to the identity of the Amazons. What is obvious, however, is that these Amazons are vastly different than the Amazons of yesteryear.

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While very different, both of these stories have one thing in common: they both empower the Amazons. In Loebs telling of the Amazon's history we have a group of women who band together, support one another and live in peace and love after suffering years of abuse and persecution. In the most recent telling of the Amazon's history we see Amazons who have never feared persecution and have empowered themselves and their island of women by staying strong and embracing their warrior spirit. Both reflect this idea that women can be strong (and as strong) as men can be, even if the latter (and most recent version) does paint them to be a race of women who fail to regard the lives of men. Essentially, lacking compassion.

Loebs' Amazon's are emotionally empowered but they still live in isolation, away from men. Is this out of fear? Is it because they are afraid that their livelihood would be threatened? Meanwhile, Azzarello's version of the Amazons paint this portrait of a tribe of women who choose to live isolated from men but do not fear the penetration of men into their society, and fully prepare themselves to ward them off. While one version aims to protect the women from harm by shielding themselves from the eyes of the world, the other protects women by being prepared for any threat that comes their way.

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So is this change a good thing for the Amazons?

When it comes to comics, you have to expect change. And that change (although it might make you uneasy) may not necessarily be a bad thing. Reading the latest issue of WONDER WOMAN I found myself at the edge of my seat and completely in disbelief, not knowing what to feel. As a Wonder Woman fan familiar with her character history, I have always appreciated that she was surrounded by compassionate, loving women who were once persecuted and given a second chance. It's a beautiful character history. Yet, reading this new interpretation of the Amazons and their race I found myself completely enthralled in this new history. These women paved their own way and were not always kind to the world; but when was the world ever kind? Additionally, this new interpretation of the Amazons is also very consistent with the mythology of the Amazons.

In some versions of the myth, no men were permitted to have sexual encounters or reside in Amazon country; but once a year, in order to prevent their race from dying out, they visited the Gargareans, a neighbouring tribe. The male children who were the result of these visits were either killed, sent back to their fathers or exposed in the wilderness to fend for themselves; the females were kept and brought up by their mothers, and trained in agricultural pursuits, hunting, and the art of war. Source

Considering most Greek city-states were patriarchal societies (in Athens women were not even permitted to sit in on Assemblies and vote), the fact that the myth surrounding the Amazons painted them as self-sufficient with a warrior mentality is very interesting. Additionally, this new history adds something new to Wonder Woman. She has brothers. This change in her identity as an Amazon will allow Azzarello to explore her as both a warrior and as a compassionate woman. It will also give her compassion a purpose, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Did you read the issue? What did you think of the story? Do you think that making huge changes to characters is a positive or a negative?

300 Comments

Avatar image for superguy1591
Posted By Superguy1591

@DarthShap: That's for Hippolyta to explain, but she's stone. That'll be unveiled, comic-book fans are so impatient that they can't wait for a simply story to unfold, they must have everything in one book. Haphestus only explained who the people are, wait until BA tells the rest of his story.

Either way, the 52 did a great job in reinventing such a great character. The Loeb origin was goofy as heck and was the problem with Diana in the DCU. Her continuity was so silly and dumb with all her silver-age tie-downs that it made the character seem like she belonged in that very era.

Avatar image for monkeytoe
Posted By MonkeyToe

@joshmightbe said:

@MonkeyToe said:

@The Mighty Monarch said:

@MonkeyToe said:

I think it is a little early to condemn this book for their take on Amazons. Has anyone considered Hephaestus could be lying?

As much as I love defending this book, I can't get behind that idea. What possible reason would Hephaestus have for lying in that situation? Plus it lends more credibility to the idea that his workers ARE slaves, which I really don't want to see happening. I was against Wonder Woman's conclusion-jumping-to from the start.

The idea taught Wonder Woman that everything isn't as simple as it appears, you can't always jump to conclusions; so jumping back to 'Oh, it turns out they really ARE slaves' would pretty much defeat the purpose.

I wasn't directing it at anyone specific. But doesn't Hephaestus mention the cruelty of his mother Hera in the book?

In the actual myth Zeus is the one who threw Hephaestus from Olympus for defending Hera during one of their arguments so it would honestly make more sense for him to be on Hera's side.

Some versions say Zeus, some say Hera. What I meant though, is doesn't Hephaestus say something about Hera being cruel to him in the Comic Book?

Avatar image for joshmightbe
Posted By joshmightbe

Speaking of Hera, I think she's one of the most tragic figures ever and it would be more surprising if she weren't a bad guy. Think about it, her first memory is of her father attempting to murder her, then she spends years trapped in his stomach, after she is freed she marries a guy who at first makes her a queen and tells her she is to be basically the most respected woman in the universe and then proceeds to disrespect her at every turn, belittling her, f**king literally everything that moves( Seriously Zeus was the biggest sexual deviant in the history of time) and generally treat her like garbage. Then her whole family including her own children cover for him and always take his side( except for Hephaestus who in the myths was usually one of her few defenders). To top all this off she had to see her husbands bastard children practically worshiped and in some instances be held in higher regard than Zeus had for his children with her. Of course she's a b!tch Zeus and her family forced her to be. The Amazons should offer her a place among them considering Hera has more hatefully mistreated by a male than damn near any woman in history

Avatar image for jonny_anonymous
Posted By Jonny_Anonymous
@joshmightbe said:

@DIOMJK: I wasn't judging Hephaestus, I was judging the women who sell their children to him, this is not a moral grey area. This is selling their children into slavery, even the most pro slavery civilizations in history would call people who sell their own children into slavery evil.

I doubt the Spartans would, they killed there children if they deemed them too weak. Also Rome was big on slavery too.
Avatar image for joshmightbe
Posted By joshmightbe

@spiderbat87: The Spartans were also well known for pederasty( That's grown men having sex with little boys) so I don't think they'd be a shining example either also the Romans were quite possibly the worst bunch of hypocritical arrogant pricks in human history so I wouldn't consider them good people to look up to either. But even Romans drew the line at selling their own children, the Spartans were straight up monsters I don't care how great the movies want to pretend they were

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Posted By Jonny_Anonymous
@joshmightbe said:

@spiderbat87: The Spartans were also well known for pederasty( That's grown men having sex with little boys) so I don't think they'd be a shining example either also the Romans were quite possibly the worst bunch of hypocritical arrogant pricks in human history so I wouldn't consider them good people to look up to either. But even Romans drew the line at selling their own children, the Spartans were straight up monsters I don't care how great the movies want to pretend they were

Not saying they where good people, no one country is "good" but the Amazons still have there culture set in the barbaric ways of the past. It may be cruel and it may be evil but so what? it makes it more interesting, not everything has to be golden good to be a good read.
Avatar image for miss_garrick
Posted By Miss_Garrick

The current version of Amazon may be a little harsh, but it is very accurate to the Ancient Greek myths, so either version works for me.

Avatar image for wdw
Posted By WDW

@joshmightbe said:

@WDW: If Wonder Woman is the daughter of Zeus then she was not a product of one of these raids being that I seriously doubt any of the Amazons would be able to force Zeus to do a damn thing so for all we know he could have just popped down there for a weekend and the next raid could be a month from now

lol when did I ever say or suggest Wonder Woman could possibly be a product of these raids? I said Wonder Woman is in her 20s meaning the event in which Hippolyta got pregnant by ZEUS happend at most 25 years ago and the last amazon raid was 33 years ago.... which means if the last raid was indeed 33 years ago then Wonder Woman the daughter of ZEUS should have raid product sisters who are 8 so years older than her. which does not seem to be the case.

Avatar image for joshmightbe
Posted By joshmightbe

@spiderbat87: I didn't say it wasn't interesting my whole point was just that I disagree with the OP treating this like a sign of female empowerment instead of the horrible thing that it is

Avatar image for wmwadeii
Posted By wmwadeii

I personally don't mind the change. I know they were going to change the origin stories. Its one of the reasons I started to read the New 52. Showing my ignorance I always thought the new origin was the way it always was. I guess I was associating it with the original Myths of the Amazons.

Avatar image for joshmightbe
Posted By joshmightbe

@WDW: I'm sure not every woman that goes on the raids gets pregnant, women don't get pregnant every time they have sex so it is possible that her mother simply didn't have any other children before her or that they were boys and her mother sold them like cattle like the rest of them

Avatar image for superguy1591
Edited By Superguy1591

@joshmightbe: Hera is the the most revered god to the Amazons, she's their true queen.

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Posted By The Impersonator

Wasn't Pandora responsible for the massive changes?

Avatar image for ryuhayabusa
Posted By RyuHayabusa

Avatar image for the_mighty_monarch
Posted By The Mighty Monarch

@MonkeyToe said:

@joshmightbe said:

@MonkeyToe said:

@The Mighty Monarch said:

@MonkeyToe said:

I think it is a little early to condemn this book for their take on Amazons. Has anyone considered Hephaestus could be lying?

As much as I love defending this book, I can't get behind that idea. What possible reason would Hephaestus have for lying in that situation? Plus it lends more credibility to the idea that his workers ARE slaves, which I really don't want to see happening. I was against Wonder Woman's conclusion-jumping-to from the start.

The idea taught Wonder Woman that everything isn't as simple as it appears, you can't always jump to conclusions; so jumping back to 'Oh, it turns out they really ARE slaves' would pretty much defeat the purpose.

I wasn't directing it at anyone specific. But doesn't Hephaestus mention the cruelty of his mother Hera in the book?

In the actual myth Zeus is the one who threw Hephaestus from Olympus for defending Hera during one of their arguments so it would honestly make more sense for him to be on Hera's side.

Some versions say Zeus, some say Hera. What I meant though, is doesn't Hephaestus say something about Hera being cruel to him in the Comic Book?

Yes, he said it was his mother who threw him away.

Avatar image for razzatazz
Posted By RazzaTazz
@Miss_Garrick said:

The current version of Amazon may be a little harsh, but it is very accurate to the Ancient Greek myths, so either version works for me.

I concur 
 
@The Impersonator said:

Wasn't Pandora responsible for the massive changes?

I think for a lot of info on Pandora we will have to wait for the first big DC crossover
Avatar image for wdw
Posted By WDW

@joshmightbe said:

@WDW: I'm sure not every woman that goes on the raids gets pregnant, women don't get pregnant every time they have sex so it is possible that her mother simply didn't have any other children before her or that they were boys and her mother sold them like cattle like the rest of them

Now you have completely lost me how does this have to do with anything I have said in this thread? it would be easier if you quoted what I said in order to follow along.

Avatar image for joshmightbe
Posted By joshmightbe

@WDW: You said that because of the raids Wonder Woman should have sisters that are 8 to 10 years older than her due to previous raids, I was pointing out that just because they had a raid at that time doesn't necessarily mean her mother got pregnant at that time so it's still within the realm of possibility that she is an only child

Avatar image for primmaster64
Posted By Primmaster64
@joshmightbe: The question is...Should the male amazons forgive them?
Avatar image for ryuhayabusa
Posted By RyuHayabusa

I think women in black robes are not amazons.

Avatar image for GrimoireMyst
Posted By GrimoireMyst

I have been a fan of Wonder Woman and her mother Hippolyta for some time but not the amazons as they always seem to trash anything and everything about men every chance they could get.

I joined the reading of comics late in life so when I ever read a WW comic I never read the background of the Amazons of DC and rather assumed the myths I read before about them to be what they were drawing part of their stories from so this change is not drastic to me in the least.

It is interesting to have this as the history now even though it doesn't paint Hippolyta in a good light. It shouldn't matter if it women or men when it comes to these horrible things that were done but I don't see how this could be seem as empowering to women though because in RL when certain men did these sort of things they were not called "warriors" but totalitarian Dictators.

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Posted By joshmightbe

@Grimoire: that's part of the societal double standard, like when a woman kicks a man in the balls people cheer even he doesn't deserve it where as if a man even says he'll hit a woman he's automatically considered an a$$hole. Don't get me wrong I'm not advocating hitting women, I'm completely against that. I'm just pointing out the double standard.

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Posted By CTCFirebird

Its quite interesting, but its definitely a bad idea. The worst idea. I rather roll of the stories we all grew up with before the Flashpoint. If the change was temporary, that would've been OK, but still... I miss the old style and it SHOULD be that way!!! Do I care about the relationship for Superman and Wonder Woman being together? Nope! It doesn't bother me at all, but the new 52 look and amazon history, not a good idea!

Avatar image for narok24
Posted By Narok24

We just saw what can happen when you change an origin story with Michael Bay's new "Ninja Turtles" farce, so DC might want to watch themselves with this kind of thing.

Avatar image for mbecks14
Posted By Mbecks14

This change is actually pretty faithful to the original myth of the amazons.

I don't love that the Amazonian race is constantly made to look like vicious brutal savages at all though.

Avatar image for doordoor123
Posted By doordoor123

"Is Changing Wonder Woman and the History of the Amazons A Good Idea?"

Easy question gets an easy answer: YES

Avatar image for stevegus
Posted By SteveGus

Ever since I moved from being a comic book fan to a comic book fan on the Internet, I've been aware of a substantial body of opinion out there that either simply doesn't like, or at best is deeply ambivalent about, superheroes. These people find the dominance of the industry by DC and Marvel, and by the dominance of superheroes in the books they publish, something to regret. They point to the European and Japanese industries and their rosters of non-superhero titles.

You can sort of see their point. If they want to develop the field with non-superhero books more power to them.

On the other hand, their tastes are not mine. I've tried to read the books they recommend. I usually end up putting them down, dismayed by the trowelled-on darkity-darkness, or by oblique, vague, and inconclusive storytelling. I've tried to read the books they recommend, and watched Element Girl tormented to death. I've learned not to trust their recommendations.

And human social dynamics get in the way. Differences in taste have a tendency to turn into tribal totems. It becomes not enough to prefer other books to superhero books; the superheroes are dismissed, say, as "juvenile power fantasies," and their fans are dismissed for simplistic tastes. If this is a bad thing then I am guilty of it. I view superhero books as a classical art form: the higher form of creativity comes from working within the restraints set by the classical forms, rather than disregarding them.

Problems arise when a writer influenced by this belief system tries to write a superhero title. They will come to the task with the idée fixe that superheroes are simplistic, lightweight entertainment, and think it's their mission to "fix" them somehow. They want to add moral depth, ambivalence, and complexity, even if this isn't what the readers came for. Superhero comics are not a good fit to complex, greyscale moralities or pithering about the indeterminacy of narrative. When you try to smoosh that stuff into them, the result is usually unreadable.

Then you come to the Wonder Woman title itself, where historically the largest problem is that every new writer that comes along the pipe tries to "fix" the title with a Bold New Direction, and as such the character had no firm supporting cast, consistent body of lore, or well developed rogue's gallery. Few of the writers have been able to step up to the plate and embrace a character who is simultaneously an Amazon warrior and a magical princess; this is a complicated and interesting character, but definitely challenging to write, a whole lot harder than a generic Vengeful Woman and Last Daughter of Themiscyra. There does seem to have been a perverse and consistent will, from the Rucka run if not before, to darken the character and turn her into a tragic figure.

Vertigo is a problem. From the foundation, the Vertigo imprint was supposed to be for creators who were, in Karen Berger’s words, “different, smarter, and edgier” than the makers of mainstream comics. In other words, we’re so much cleverer, hipper, and more sophisticated than the trogs who wrote all those four-color stories about stalwart patriotic superheroes.

When you have an entire imprint dedicated to this mentality, my impression is there’s always been a mood of scorn and condescension towards classic characters. My earliest diststeful Vertigo memories all revolved around the mistreatment of Silver Age characters in Vertigo books. I’ve learned to view the entire line with suspicion; if it isn’t soaked in violence or adolescent darkity-darkness, it will feature oblique and inconclusive storytelling.

So when Vertigo writers end up on DC universe titles, the containment field is breached. To accept the Vertigo mindset is to believe that traditional superheroes are simplistic and silly. They need complexity. (And in that view of things, this means, “it’s gotta be dark.")

Of course they’ll be flinging poo at an American icon. It’s how they show they’re more sophisticated than the people who created them.

Avatar image for razzatazz
Posted By RazzaTazz
@joshmightbe said:

@Grimoire: that's part of the societal double standard, like when a woman kicks a man in the balls people cheer even he doesn't deserve it where as if a man even says he'll hit a woman he's automatically considered an a$$hole. Don't get me wrong I'm not advocating hitting women, I'm completely against that. I'm just pointing out the double standard.

I am not sure that there is anyone saying that the behaviour of the Amazons is admirable or moral though
Avatar image for deactivated-5a77aa5e0a324
Posted By deactivated-5a77aa5e0a324

Back to the question at hand: Do I think changing her origin is a good idea? Hell yes.

Avatar image for mcclintick
Posted By McClintick

I have always thought the amazons were exactly like this new vision, i didn't get into comics untill 2011 so this made since to me. But this makes alot of since as they are not really magical beings, i could see why they would kill the men and sink their ships but then the wreckage would be found right? and ghost ships would get alot of investigation so do they keep the ships and scrap them for metal?

Avatar image for wowlock
Posted By Wowlock

I am wondering how they come up with such ideas. As others said earlier '' If this background was for only-male society '' There would be a scandal.

But when an All-female group does it, they call ''self-empowerment '' ? I call that BS. They want equal treatment...then they should get equal treatment. With this kind of origin, they are not ''Amazons''. They are bunch of crazy women who kidnap men,rape them, kill them and TRADE their sons.....

Aside from this ridiculous origin, now we are to believe that Diana came from these ''amazons'' ? And if she did, how in the blue hell she didn't know any of this ?

It is just a weak way to change things for ''Shock value''. That is one of the things I hate most about in New 52. The changes just in sake of making changes. But after this kind of origin, I won't be able to take ''Amazons and their compassion '' seriously and I can't see Diana as a member of these Amazons. Because either they wanted to keep her from being exposed to their tactics ( Which makes NO SENSE since they are quite proud of their sick ways ) or Diana is just too Naive or flat-out Dumb....and I don't think you would make your Main Female lead of DC universe a naive girl who know nothing of her people....

I knew that Flashpoint would change things and the Amazons there were ruthless but THIS is ridiculous.

Avatar image for gregomasta
Posted By Gregomasta

Why is it thata strong woman can't co-exist with even a single man but a strong man can co-exist with many women?

Avatar image for mattersuit
Edited By Mattersuit

@Skaddix: Hardly. Since the Amazons are gleaned from ancient mythology, this is actually closer to the source material. As such, you cannot compare it with making such a change to original characters such as the Kryptonians or the Waynes.

Avatar image for phoenixofthetides
Posted By PhoenixoftheTides

I think so. Honestly, I would think the story would be stronger if writers worried less about trying to describe how an all-female society on Earth would look and operate, and more on just depicting the Amazons as demigods or priestesses of the gods. I've always liked Wonder Woman's Amazonian origins, but to be fair, in mythological terms, there really wasn't a single concept of "Amazons" per se - they seemed more like an idea of a society that was the opposite of a Greek, male dominated one than a fully fledged group of characters. DC has manipulated the Amazonian myth to make it fit a superhero enough times where I barely see any similarity. So from the mythological standpoint, the DC Amazons that Wonder Woman traditionally comes from already seem far removed from their mythological counterparts.

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Posted By BradP

Makes Wonder Woman a little more human. She's getting confronted with the truth behind the myths her mother taught her. So she has to question her inherited values. It's a kind of long over due adolescence for her that may bring her out of the 'one dimensionality' that dogged the character for years. The character (Wonder Woman) has tremendous potential - and could be the biggest in DC, but needs some developing to become more 'complex' and 'interesting'. The new changes are a step in the wright direction but need more fine tuning. The biggest problem was getting rid of the supporting cast. Batman and Superman had the best rogues gallery in comicdom, but Diana had the best supporting cast. Character like Donna Troy and Artemis were capable of carrying their own titles and had their own fan bases.

Avatar image for monkeytoe
Posted By MonkeyToe

@The Mighty Monarch said:

Yes, he said it was his mother who threw him away.

Thanks Monarch! In that case, he could be lying because he may have a general attitude of disdain for all women. Maybe he exaggerates the crimes of the Amazon's because he associates them with the cruelty of his own mother. That doesn't mean that he doesn't take the male children away from the Amazons or that he is harsh to the male workers, just that he empathizes with them.

Avatar image for degraaf
Posted By DEGRAAF

i never knew the Amazons of Pre-New 52 were persecuted souls the died before their time. I also didn't know that Gaea had anything to do with them. It does help explain a bit about them. I never knew why men weren't allow besides that it was a law

Avatar image for wdw
Posted By WDW

@joshmightbe said:

@WDW: You said that because of the raids Wonder Woman should have sisters that are 8 to 10 years older than her due to previous raids, I was pointing out that just because they had a raid at that time doesn't necessarily mean her mother got pregnant at that time so it's still within the realm of possibility that she is an only child

Ok thanks. When I said "sisters" I meant all the Amazons as a society. Diana usually refers to All the amazons as a whole as her sisters.

Regardless if her mother was pregnant or not if the raids happen every 33 years and all the other amazons participated then it stands to reason that there would be Amazons girls at most 8 years older than her...since no such Amazons seem to exist. I can assume the thrice a year raids did not happened every 33 years hence the reason why Wonder Woman has no clue they happened.

Avatar image for herrweis
Posted By herrweis

joshmightbe is online on March 28, 2012 at 9:53 a.m.

@MonkeyToe said:

@The Mighty Monarch said:

@MonkeyToe said:

I think it is a little early to condemn this book for their take on Amazons. Has anyone considered Hephaestus could be lying?

As much as I love defending this book, I can't get behind that idea. What possible reason would Hephaestus have for lying in that situation? Plus it lends more credibility to the idea that his workers ARE slaves, which I really don't want to see happening. I was against Wonder Woman's conclusion-jumping-to from the start.

The idea taught Wonder Woman that everything isn't as simple as it appears, you can't always jump to conclusions; so jumping back to 'Oh, it turns out they really ARE slaves' would pretty much defeat the purpose.

I wasn't directing it at anyone specific. But doesn't Hephaestus mention the cruelty of his mother Hera in the book?

In the actual myth Zeus is the one who threw Hephaestus from Olympus for defending Hera during one of their arguments so it would honestly make more sense for him to be on Hera's side.

actually the myth is that Hera gave birth to him on her on and when he was not beautiful upon birth she tossed him from Olympus .He landed in the sea and was raised bye Thetis.The episode with Zeus tossing him off of Olympus happened after he was already an adult.

Avatar image for monkeytoe
Posted By MonkeyToe

@herrweis said:

joshmightbe is online on March 28, 2012 at 9:53 a.m.

@MonkeyToe said:

@The Mighty Monarch said:

@MonkeyToe said:

I think it is a little early to condemn this book for their take on Amazons. Has anyone considered Hephaestus could be lying?

As much as I love defending this book, I can't get behind that idea. What possible reason would Hephaestus have for lying in that situation? Plus it lends more credibility to the idea that his workers ARE slaves, which I really don't want to see happening. I was against Wonder Woman's conclusion-jumping-to from the start.

The idea taught Wonder Woman that everything isn't as simple as it appears, you can't always jump to conclusions; so jumping back to 'Oh, it turns out they really ARE slaves' would pretty much defeat the purpose.

I wasn't directing it at anyone specific. But doesn't Hephaestus mention the cruelty of his mother Hera in the book?

In the actual myth Zeus is the one who threw Hephaestus from Olympus for defending Hera during one of their arguments so it would honestly make more sense for him to be on Hera's side.

actually the myth is that Hera gave birth to him on her on and when he was not beautiful upon birth she tossed him from Olympus .He landed in the sea and was raised bye Thetis.The episode with Zeus tossing him off of Olympus happened after he was already an adult.

Their are different accounts of the same myth. Some say it was Zeus, some say it was Hera, but my question was how it went down in the comic.

Avatar image for erik
Posted By Erik

@Billy Batson said:

Is it worth the buy? Thinking about getting it in a trade along with other new 52 series.

Hah, I remember someone else saying it would have been better if it was an elseworld. But the series doesn't make you want to quit being a Wonder Woman fan like some others at CBR lost their sh!t after this issue?

The route with the amazons can still change, since anything with Azzarello is possible. He can turn the whole thing in a different direction without any trouble. Be it in the next issue, in the middle or in the end.

You wouldn't mind if the writer would write Wonder Woman for years?

BB

I think it is worth buying. I am a hardcore Wonder Woman fan and I continue to buy it. I have come to terms with the fact that MY Wonder Woman is gone, much like Pre-Crisis Wonder Woman fans had to come to terms with their Wonder Woman ceasing to exist. This version is good, not great but good. It certainly is much better than most of the other New-52 issues with few exceptions.

I actually would not mind the writer staying on for years. He does write good and enjoyable issues. In fact, if I had never read previous Wonder Woman issues, I would have no issue with him at all.

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Posted By deactivated-578ee3f81c5e1

The new way is better to me, they never had a dependency on men. the old way was made in an old time, and is outdated, painting women as victims who needed the help of a goddess to be more. the new way shows women being equal to men without the need for diversity and hate to fuel them. also, it isnt ruled out really that it HAS CHANGED. just because the have sex instead of work with clay, doesn't rule out their beginnings as downtrodden cave women or whatever the above old school panels suggest.

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Posted By Casshern

THIS IS THE TRUTH behind being a True Amazon...if you take out all the God like power moments.

Yes the story is DARK and it does make the Amazon's less than friendly, which I'm sure will come into question later on, BUT having children and no men and only girls...everyone should have figured this to be the way.

Plus they could also put kidnapping (from abusive Parents) or adopting runways Diana finds in the city.

The old story made them pure_which was the focus of who they were.

Now they are real...battle harden, which to me makes since as to how someone like Artemis could come about.

Now we have fear and questionability running in our heads. This is great! No one said anything about the crazy up bring of men in 300...why start now cause its women.

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Posted By jason44143

1st ill say i am definitely not a wonder woman expert. ive never been able to get into those comics, so im going off of very limited knowledge of just stuff ive read in comicvine, various webpages, and stuff ive seen in the dtv movies and justice league cartoon. i think that changing her history could be a very good change for developing stories. the abandonment of baby boys could be something WW would not agree with the amazons on, and give them a reason to not have her always on island. maybe her disagreement is considered sacrilege and they boot her from the island. which inevitably she will return when the amazons are in danger and she has to rescue them.

it also gives them a chance to create an interesting villain. perhaps an amazon hid the fact she had a son and raised it in secret, or gave it to someone who raised it in secret. the boy to grow up to hate the amazons and become a very big enemy in the WW comics. somebody besides cheetah and all the greek gods, and the few evil amazons here and there. at least they could increase her rogues gallery a litttle from it.

and someone wrote it before, but i like the idea of WW becoming pregnant with a boy and not wanting to give it away. it goes very nicely with her compassionate characterization. and it gives room for a whole mess of stories with it.

cause really in the end whatever change they make to her history doesnt matter, its all about what stories become so strong and so well known that they wont want to change that part of her history again.

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Posted By Lorialet

I'm not sure how to feel about the new amazon history. I like that they're closer to the mythological amazons, it makes them more familiar, somehow. I always found the portrayal of the DC amazons as immortal paragons of peace and virtue to be strange. On the other hand, making them basically a civilization of black widows is creepy as hell, and kinda ridiculous. A

Like others have mentioned earlier, it makes no sense that Diana would not know about her own people's customs. Is it normal for young amazon women not to know where babies come from? Also, they only go on raids to find men thrice a century? How can they maintain their population with just that? And how has nobody noticed that every 30 years or so, thousands of men disappear at sea in a relatively short time period?

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Posted By TAneT62

Don't like the changes at all! And thats my personal opinion, so dont bother commenting back on my post"/ bring back the originall characters and there history, stop making changes that destory the character"/

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Posted By TAneT62

well i hope she gets HUGE feats out of this new run! like Darkesid feats

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Posted By Billy Batson

@Erik:

Good to hear. Are you liking the art? Btw, did you mind that she's no longer made from clay?
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Posted By Erik

@Billy Batson said:

@Erik:

Good to hear. Are you liking the art? Btw, did you mind that she's no longer made from clay?
BB

At first, I hated the art. I thought it was sloppy. But it grew on me and now I feel as though it really fits the mood of the story. I would still happily take Jim Lee or Ed Benes over it any day but it is fun.

  • The fact that she is no longer made from clay may be a good thing for two reasons that I can think of off the top of my head. First, she has been elevated from a golem of the gods with a soul (only scratching the surface here. Her soul was actually Gaea's soul or at least a fraction of it) to an actual demigod herself. It feels as though that is an elevation anyway.
  • The second is that I want this new Wonder Woman to have as much distance as possible from the one I love. So readers can see how much more awesome my favorite is. :p
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Posted By Billy Batson

@Erik:

LOL @ the second reason.
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