Exclusive Preview: WONDER WOMAN #33

1. As if anyone really cares? Morrison or Waid, both are infinite leagues above the likes of Lobdell.
2. Just funny we've never actually seen him be that, we only get the aftermaths. And then he gets beat up by a solar powered kryptonian. And lets not forget who it was that actually killed the one person Darkseid could never beat.
3. Bull. They just exist somewhere else and work primarily on a far more mortal level than the earthly gods do.
4. What would you rather have? Brick? Rage-blind? Beast? Face it, the reason DC has gone along with this now is because Orion has largely been without any definite personality since Kirby stopped writing him.
5. It would be fair he was finally showed his place: Under Zeus' boot.

@cobramorph: Orion strikes me as one of the least sexist male characters I've read in years actually. Azz has written him as a bit of a tormented man that likes to put on a front which endeared him to me but that some of you equate with a pansy because he's not totally panty-droppingly macho.

The purpose of this scene is to illustrate the tension amongst her friends that are apprehensive of losing Wonder Woman. Orion's acting up because he's worried and took it out on Aleka. Hera, the patron goddess of the amazons who's also worried sick, blew a fuse and took it out on him. There's no feminist agenda as far as I can make out.

And while reverse discrimination exists in the world, prejudice against men is marginal. You can't compare that with sexism against women which is a major social evil with real life-changing, deadly consequences. The day sexism becomes an obstacle to you you'll have earned the right to complain about it.

As for Chiang the guy is a genius, these panels look sublime and they actually tell the story so I'm actually very sad to lose him.

@outside_85 said:

@entropy_aegis said:

1. The Adam Strange story was written by Waid not Morrison,and as usual he has no clue how to write them either which seems to be rather consistent trait among Superman writers.
2. Darkseid has always been above the pay grade of other pantheons,even Jobberseid see Countdown.
3. It's not fair game at all,and you know it. The New Gods have always operated at a higher level of power than the other gods in the DC universe,Darkseid owning the Amazons isn't disrespectful at the slightest.
4. Here Orion is just annoying now,I liked him initially but I would have thought he'd have matured by now or something,but no it's the same thing over and over.Now people are calling him sexist,seriously WTF,his character doesn't need that stigma attached to him.
5. It would be fair game if Darkseid made WW his slave.

1. As if anyone really cares? Morrison or Waid, both are infinite leagues above the likes of Lobdell.
2. Just funny we've never actually seen him be that, we only get the aftermaths. And then he gets beat up by a solar powered kryptonian. And lets not forget who it was that actually killed the one person Darkseid could never beat.
3. Bull. They just exist somewhere else and work primarily on a far more mortal level than the earthly gods do.
4. What would you rather have? Brick? Rage-blind? Beast? Face it, the reason DC has gone along with this now is because Orion has largely been without any definite personality since Kirby stopped writing him.
5. It would be fair he was finally showed his place: Under Zeus' boot.

It makes every difference in the world to me,Waid didn't write Orion well,Morrison did. Lobdell has absolutely nothing to do with this,using an instance of bad writing to defend another instance of bad writing is weak.

That solar powered Kryptonian recently smacked the crap out of Apollo,he's DCs golden boy period.

And that alone puts their level of power and knowledge at a higher level.

Walt Simonson says hi.

Zeus? hahahaha. Darkseid wouldn't even bother with him,he'd probably send Godfrey or some lowly underling.

In that same crossover Darkseid stopped Ares and Ares had the Godwave then,in that same book Zeus and Thor were drooling over Darkseid's power,in that same book Darkseid was blowing off pantheons left,right and center. Highfather died because of his physiology ,he can be harmed by piercing objects and because he chose to fight Ares on Ares's own terms(straight up combat).It's what we call CIS on that battle forums(character induced stupidity).

1. You were the one that raised Lobdell into this argument.
2. For a poster with such an enduring presence, you have an utterly terrible reading comprehension if that's what you think, look closer.
3. So I guess, Azarath is superior to Earth then because it exists somewhere else?... garbage logic mate, dont use it, it stinks.
4. Who?
5. If he wanted him dead, sure. Fact remains that we never ever see how exactly Darkseid would handle or beat an actual god, he just does for some reason.
6. Did he now? Hmm, for very good reasons I don't believe you.

@archizoom: Orion is a scumbag, they're all are.

They're racists in New Genesis too, hardly think sexism is beneath them.

@entropy_aegis: Pretty sure they're racist.

@superguy1591: He's not a bad person in Wonder Woman. I'd rather Wonder Woman be in a relationship with him.

@archizoom: you're into bad boys, huh? He just told a woman he would tongue her down for not allowing him to go after Diana. He was heading off to go do the thing you claim to hate in the SM/WW...

Thank you so, so much for clearing that up. It was bugging me, something awful.

Might start reading the series after I start reading the New 52 batman comics.

haha hera made orion her little biznaitch lol

This applies to every pantheon of Gods including Greek,take a good look at the Amazons.

You attack me personally for my reading comprehension and then claim that it was I who brought up Lobdell...yup brilliant reading skills mate,did you get a trophy for them? I'd love to know cause the irony is killing me.

It's clear that you have no idea what you are talking about,you didn't respond to my post in any meaningful manner,you dont know anything about Simonson,you disregarded the context behind the Ares/Izaya fight,yet you insist on provocation which only made you look stupid. All you are doing is putting your fingers in to your ears and claiming "NUH UH MY GUYS ARE BETTER THAN YOUR GUYS"

He's a threat to the SM/WW relationship,would've succeeded too if the editorial wasn't so hellbent on giving us that snooze fest of relationship. He's a nightmare to the shippers of this relationship.

@entropy_aegis: You don't get a pass for being racist just because everyone else is racist.

And I hardly think that anyone is worried about Orion busting up SM/WW. Azz wanted that relationshi and Azz alone, Azz is off the book.

What threat does Orion cause to SM/WW now? The only threat is Lois Lame...but hopefully DC has Diana dump Clark and not that Lois breaks them up.

Also, yes, the only reason why I don't want Diana with Orion is because of Superman. Not because Orion is a misogynist who treats women like lesser beings and that betrays everything Diana stands for, no, it's a relationship that wont last.

What next, Batman and Harley Quinn? Superman and Satan?

@superguy1591: Azz has written Orion as a bit of a troubled man that compensates for his insecurities. However underneath his rowdy macho exterior there's good man, he's a good friend to Milan (Wonder Woman's homeless brother) he even took him on a ride on his astro-harness.

And as far as I'm concerned Wonder Woman's relationship with Superman betrays everything Wonder Woman stands for. She's the super powered Woman who is powerful enough to give Superman a powerful baby. She's a supporting character in SM/WW and a devoted girlfriend. The first thing Soule did was have Doomsday break her arms to show Wonder Woman's actually quite fragile so that she needs Superman's protection despite not wanting it. That's just what Superman does, he dwarfs anyone that stands next to him.

@archizoom: So you don't like Wonder Woman with anyone more popular or more powerful then.

Firstly, I don't think DC put them together for "superpowered babies". I'm pretty sure it's because they were best friends since the Silver Age and they have constantly flirted with each other in continuity that people have always wanted to pair them up.

Secondly, Orion is Jack Kirby's version of DC Thor. He's also stronger than Diana.

@superguy1591: What I don't like is when they cast Wonder Woman in the role of beta-female because It betrays her amazonian heritage. The whole point of Wonder Woman is that she doesn't abide by gender roles since she's not a product of the patriarchy. Amazons are raised to be as tough and strong as their female biological makeup allows them to be so seen from the lenses of patriarchy the Amazons should be quite masculine.

You know I don't acknowledge Superman as Wonder Woman's superior despite knowing he's almost always portrayed as such. I fail to see how Wonder Woman's supposed to be inspiring if she's inferior to him.

@archizoom: Diana hasn't ever said she wanted to settle down with Superman and hang up her sword; she just likes him. I'm not sure how it betrays her heritage...

And you ask how is it that Diana can inspire if she's weaker than him? She's supposed to inspire young girls, right? But her message doesn't have to be about physical strength; her message could easily be about being equal to Superman by using her strengths as a woman/character to put her as an equal to him. Just because I can beat you in arm wrestling it doesn't mean I'm better than you, you're probably much better at Math and Science than me. There are probably a million things that you are better than me at as a woman, they're not negated because you can't lift as much as me.

And why Superman and Wonder Woman make a good couple?

-They're best-friends in most stories and their themes of hope and truth work together.

- They both understand how it feels to feel like an outsider in this world.

- They both relate to each other more than any other in the JL.

- They both should be able to spend the most amount of time together thanks to their powers. Like in Superman's Fortress, The Phantom Zone, the moon, the Earth's core...this would've been a great build up, but their relationship is limited and DC didn't want to waste time.

- They both come from highly advance civilizations that are the pinnacle of what they do: Science and Magic.

Differences that they can learn from each other,

- She can teach Superman to fight, to be more tactical and to be more comfortable in his skin.

- Superman can teach her about humanity, humility, compassion and restraint (in killing).

- She could teach Superman about magic, help him develop a resistance to it, help him face off against his mystical rogues.

- He could teach her about science, technology and Krypton.

- She can take him to Valhalla, Hades and MT. Olympus

- He could introduce her to space, other planets and other dimensions.

And their relationship could help connect them to the New Gods. The New Gods are science meets mythology and that's what Superman and Wonder Woman are...

They have a lot to offer each other besides Superbabies.

What is this non sense? ofcourse they get a pass,the Amazons have gotten a pass for f*cking men and then killing them. I dont see you shedding tears over it ,I dont see people talking about the crap Zeus has done over the years. These are aspects of their culture and mythology,it's what makes you want to read them. All in all the Greek Gods are far more controversial than the New Gods.

I dont give a rats a$$ about Orion and Wonder Woman,these ridiculous accusations of misogyny and sexism that you're pulling out your a$$ are tiring at this point. It's easy to bully someone else in to submission with such horse crap,stick to the topic avoid this BS,it's sickening. I get it Superman is a very nice guy and gentleman,Orion is a sexist so Superman should date WW. Every thing you post circles back to Superman one way or another even when it doesn't involve him. I dont want to say this but you suffer from a serious inferiority complex when it comes to Superman,every character you perceive as a threat to Superman is instantly lowballed,first it was Batman now it's Orion.

@entropy_aegis: I'm going to not go deep into this to avoid my temper being riled, besides the fact that Orion just told that woman--who is neither his friend, girlfriend or someone who is having a joking moment with--that he would tongue her down if she tried to stop him, I think Orion just proved he doesn't respect her much

He also slapped Diana's butt when they have no romantic or friendly sexual thing going where he is allowed to touch her like that.

If you haven't been picking up on Orion's sexism, you're either too dense or willfully blind. Everyone else noticed it...

Nothing else to say to You.

You're applying modern day man made concepts of morality and ethics(which aren't even constant and dont apply to considerable portions of the planet) on a group of space aliens,for all we know the women of New Genesis are no different from Orion who himself has always been at loggerheads with other heroes for a majority of his existence.

@superguy1591: And what would her strengths as a woman be? Superman's portrayed as being stronger, faster, smarter (are men smarter than women too?) and Soule decided that Superman should also have more power of will and even a stronger sense of morality !!! so clearly there's no such thing as a female strength in the DCU. Women score higher in IQ tests yet DC's smartest characters are male with the notable exception of Oracle who's ranked somewhere in the middle of a long list of men. In professional sports, men's records are only 10% better than Women's yet Superman is probably more than 10% stronger than Wonder Woman besides being invulnerable, self-sustainable etc. The only faux-advantage Wonder Woman's got over Superman is being presumably but not actually an exceptional fighter. This is tantamount to saying Women are just really rubbish and that we can never be as good as men no matter how much effort we put into it.

First of all: You engaged me. So you can keep that prize and choke on it.

@justthatkid: Which only exist on paper. For all her superior reflexes and amazon training she never dodges anything and always loses anyway. Outside her eponymous book, she's not even as kind and caring as Superman anymore, attributes that we culturally associate with Women. Superman excels at those too.

@archizoom: she's a much better fighter, better reflexes, though Superman is smarter due to being a sci-fi character, Diana is more tactical, she is better equipped and she protects him against his weakness towards magic.

She's also a better judge of character, more decisive, emotionally stronger and much tougher since doesn't have a weakness to exploit.

@superguy1591: bullocks her combat skills and reflexes are faux-advantages, I've seldom seen her using them. Being equipped is not a power, it's a resource and utilizing her weapons against bare-handed adversaries is against the warrior's code of honor. By "emotionally stronger" you mean "unscrupulous" as in "not holding back" so when all is said and done, in a square fight Superman would run all over Wonder Woman because God forbid a woman be in the men's league.

If you use your Godly reading skills then you'll find that there is a reply and quote feature on this forum,in other words I can choose to reply to you any time I want,that's NOT a crime. Ofcourse if you cant handle it you can always feel free to leave anytime you want.

Right there with ya, though I gave it 21 issues. And yea, I knew after the 1st 6 issues that it would be a bad run. I wish WW had gained popularity under a writer that actually liked Wonder Woman before he or she got the book. As is, now we are stuck with what he's given us, and THIS Wonder Woman fan is SOOO disappointed!

@jonny_anonymous:

I don't mind. Hera is the wife of Zeus. She should be that powerful. Would anyone be mad if Freyja did that to, say, Hulk? I don't think so and if they did then that's misplaced anger imo. Her doing that, imo, puts her above Superman, Shazam etc. and there's nothing wrong with that.